Judging Freedom - Dr. Gilbert Doctorow : The Russians and Their War.

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Dr. Gilbert Doctorow : The Russians and Their War.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Wednesday, November 12th, 2025. Dr. Gilbert Dr. O joins us now. Dr. O, a pleasure, and thank you very much for being here. Are you sensing or were you even experiencing any palpable domestic effects on everyday day Russian life arguably triggered by the war. I would like to point out that the Russian government policies

are caught between two factions, we call the factions. There are two branches of the government, which are at odds. And the answer to your question lies with one of those. but it seems to be predominant at the moment. What I'm describing is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, being on the progressive, liberal, open society, end of things, and the successor organization to the KGB, called the FSB, being on the repressive side of things.

Recent developments that affect a lot of people in Russia and are negative and repressive are coming from the KGB successor FSP. And if you have any doubts, you could find it in major media in Russia in the last 10 days. I'll just give a few of these and you'll see what I mean. The most, everyone knows that about a month ago or six weeks ago, what's up, lost its voice functionality in Russia. It has to say, in Russia, anybody can call you from abroad, from anywhere, and the phone rings, you pick it up, and it disconnects. It will not connect for a voice connection. On the other hand, the text function of WhatsApp works.

You can send people as an equivalent of SMS, and it works fine. That doesn't sound like much if you don't know what's been going on in Russia for the last several years. everybody was using WhatsApp. And WhatsApp was a free way to speak with the whole world. You know, you pay nothing for international phone calls on WhatsApp. And Russians were using this very well. Now, when the voice function is cut, they are left with, most people are left with using the normal telephone system.

Can you use a VPN? Can you use one of those systems? systems that bypasses the blockage and would allow you to use the WhatsApp? You can use a VPN, but first of all, not everybody is very clever about these things. Those who are clever, they use it. And of course, they have access to everything. However, it is what viewed with a jaundiced eye by the authorities. And there is going to be a crackdown of VPN.

because it obviously violates the whole principle of the regulations that are coming down now from on high. Does the government acknowledge these regulations? Does it say what it's doing? Does it give a reason or does it just do it? Absolutely. He both gives a reason and explains what it's about what's doing or about to do. And in the last two weeks, while I mentioned the what's up incident, which I say is more powerful in cutting off Russians from the world than their loss of the BBC or CNN or whatever else that they had when international broadcasters left the Russian market or when satellites stopped carrying Russian transmitters. The big things happened in the last few weeks, one of them I mentioned in our previous chats and have written about, was this

in this taking away from foreigners of the right to have a Russian sim card, or there's a telephone number of Russia. And of course, having a telephone, local telephone, it's very important if you're a visitor, or if you live in Russia, either as a permanent resident or as a temporary long-stay visitor, to do almost anything, including cats. calling a taxi well so foreigners were the first to be hit by this rule and it was explained as we know by the incidents around the spider web attack on Russian strategic assets which in which local telephones were used as a as enabling device for for setting off the drones and stuff okay that's that's the

foreigner's side. But now, in the last several days, the authorities have issued a new ruling, a new directive, that any Russian who travels aboard and comes back with his telephone will find that his telephone number is blocked, and he has to go to his service provider, and I don't know, somehow explain himself to them. Well, we're speaking about 10 million people a year, leave Russia and go abroad on vacation or work or whatever. And they come back to the country. They don't have telephone. They have to go to their service provider. It's not yet clear what you have to do to be verified or re-verified to get back the use of your phone. Just to be petty about it, you arrive at an airport and you can't call a taxi, you can't call

your friends. You are cut off until you get around to visiting your service provider. Not very friendly. The reason, as I said, they're doing it for national security reasons. And here I see two different agencies of the Russian government pulling in different directions. The FSB is clearly issuing these directives, claiming national security is uppermost. Their rationale, I'm sorry to say, is hairbrained. To think that by subjecting all Russians to this type of scrutiny,

you're going to prevent terrorism, you can prevent the British and the Ukrainian and other foreign intelligence operatives on Russian territory from getting telephone numbers. For heaven's sakes, Russian television was carrying yesterday the story of the MI6 attempt to bribe Russian pilots with $3 million in cash and citizenship somewhere in Western Europe if they would fly a MiG-31 into Romania together with. with the latest generation missile Kinjol to go to Western intelligence. Three million dollars in cash was available. I'm sure that a few dollars are available to buy up from some stupid local person or drunk. Let me stop you. I get the picture, but I had not heard about this bribe. Who was offering

these bribes? Am I 6, CIA, Ukrainian, Mossad? Who was it? According to the Russian story, and this was carried by Mr. Ravrov last night, Brits, it's all Brits. Brits means... How pervasive, maybe this, maybe the answer to this question is unknowable, but how pervasive are MI6 CIA, Ukrainian intel throughout less limited, Moscow? No, no, the whole of Russia. The British in particular have worked closely with Ukrainians. Remember so many Ukrainians, a good Russian speaker. That was the essence of the nationalities problem in Ukraine.

Half of the country didn't speak the language of the land. They spoke Russian. So of course there are plenty of Ukrainian agents all over the place in Russia. And to think that you're going to prevent them from using the telephone network to do terror acts in Russia by holding up every Russian who comes back with his phone is really nonsense. Tell me more about this rivalry or conflict between FSB, the intelligence services, and the foreign ministry headed by Sergei Lavrov and the people that work for him are generally

graduates of the School of International Diplomacy, which is a very high, you know, high and academic institution at which I've been privileged to lecture. And they were very interested in the American Constitution when I was there. They knew exactly what they were talking about. These, of course, are future diplomats. Mr. Lavrov himself as a graduate of that school. But tell me about the rivalry. Can President Putin control the FSB,

unlike President Trump who cannot control the American deep state? I have to wonder about that. You would think that as a former KGB officer, he would know these people perfectly well and have them under control. But I have my doubts now that's happening.

Let's come back to the central issue. I would like to take this away from the personality of Mr. Putin as if he is a whole of Russia. He isn't. And take it to the institutional and ideological differences that are different in his government. You asked me a week ago, what about the rumored retirement of Lavrov and I had nothing to say?

But, you know, in light of I'm about to say now, I think it makes a lot of sense that these rumors spread. What is the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the diplomatic corps, and who is who? Let's look at age. The people who are now ambassadors are mostly in their 50s. That's to say they started their careers in the Yeltsin years. That tells you a lot. They were what the Russians called Zapatniki. They were westernizers.

They were sympathetic and wanted to have the best of relations with the United States and Western Europe. And they are the ones who are now ambassadors across the world. It is, in your opinion, is Sergei Lavrov of that mentality? Absolutely. Yes. And the only big exception that I'm aware of, in his immediate entourage, is Mr. Rapkov, who is a real hardliner. They're a real tough guy looking after, in the most vigorous way, Russian interests. Other people came up into the ministry where Mr. Kozirov was the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

He was the yes man, as opposed to Grimiko, who had been Mr. Nietz. Mr. Kozyev or Mr. Da, agreeing to everything that the United States wanted. However, it undermined Russian national interests. And he was finally sacked in about 1998. The point is that these people who are the professional diplomatic core of Russia, they went to Begimo. I agree with you, it is one of the best institutions of its kind in the world and has a lot of Americanist cynage,

like the people who spoke to you about the American Constitution. He's a very well-educated people. But the disposition of the institution is open to the world. And that's the key point. What is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs doing? Every chance it has, it opens the world for Russians. I think a week ago they announced that they had just agreed with Saudi Arabia, a visa-free travel of Russians in Saudi Arabia.

That is a regular preoccupation of that ministry, opening the world to Russians. The FSB is closing the world to Russia. Is the FSB, I'll use the word repression. I don't know if that's the right word. I don't know if it's gotten to that point. Let's be charitable and call it the new regulations. Are these something would have to be approved by President Putin himself?

I don't know. I don't know to what level this type of issuance of regulations rises for approval. for approval. It's not a dramatic thing. We're talking about it for a government to do this. It is a very big influence on how people feel about themselves and their access to the world, but I don't think it's a kind of crucial issue that would come up to the desk of Mr. Putin, or even to the head of the SB. So are these regulations a nuisance and an inconvenience, or are they a knock on the door in the night? No, it's not a knock on the joint night.

1937 has not returned. But the country's steady march towards an open society, towards the end to arbitrariness and graft that Mr. Putin oversaw for 25 years, is now beginning to unravel. And I guess you're attributing this to the consequence. of the war. Absolutely. And this is why I don't sound like a one-note orchestra, but that's why I'm saying that

the war has to end as quickly as possible, which is within the power of the Russian army if it wants to use its power, which up until now it doesn't. What they're doing, and I think here's where the FSB influence comes in. They are destroying the energy infrastructure of Ukraine. They're causing great misery to average Ukrainians, but that will not end the war by one day. The country will get electricity supplies from Europe, as it now does partially. All they have to do is build more high power lines from Europe. If Europe is going to put up tens of billions of dollars in arms, they certainly can afford

to put up some energy high power lines. How decrepit is the, and I use that word, intentionally, like I said, what I'm about to tell you, nothing new to you, the Ukrainian military. We are in the West getting reports of conscription, which is horrific, training of non-existent young men in their late teenage years and early 20s on the front line who barely know how to pull the trigger on the weapon, terrified that just a week ago they were at home. with their parents. I mean, this can't be any way to run a military. We're also getting reports from General, I only know his first name, forgive me. Alexander, I forget his last name, the commander of the Russian troops, acknowledging to some of his, some Ukrainian parliamentarians that the military is in a bad way. Of course, it's in a bad way. When you lose the vast numbers

of people that have. However, let me just point out that in the interviews with prisoners of war who have, who surrendered, say, around Apakrovsk in the last couple of weeks. These are Ukrainian groups who surrendered to the Russians. Right. But mostly, if you look at the faces, these are people in their late 50s or 60s. These are not the 20-year-olds. 20-year-olds I see around here in Brussels and bars. That's where the young Ukrainians have gone and where they want to stay. It is unfortunately a lot of over-aged people who are now in the military, aren't good very much, actually, and not a one of them spoke about how they were dragooned into the army.

So it's more complicated than speaking about these excessive measures to forcibly put people in uniform. And as to the experience of people in this part of the world, Eastern Europe and Russian particular with preparation for military service they just go back and look at what happened to the start of World War II and the Germans invading Russian territory and the start of the siege but we have friends in Petersburg or had friends because many of these have died already who fought in the first days defending Leningrad from the invading German troops and boy they had zero training they also could hardly know how to pull a trigger. So this isn't exactly new development in that part of the

world. What pressures are there on President Putin, or let me restate the question, is this societal change affecting his popularity and approval? I don't think so. But again, let's not personalize this whole thing. When you look at Russian television and the critical, The criticism of the way the war is being conducted, there is never a word about the president. It's only about the specifics of the way the war is being conducted, not who is approved it, who, which you all know who it was. So Mr. Putin is essentially one step back from the front lines of answerability for the way the war has been conducted.

Well, does he proceed pressure from either the military or the FSB? to get the war over with. I can't say that. I don't think, but just looking at the dynamics here, I don't think the FSB is under particular pressure to get the war on with. The war is giving them more power. So just as there's criticism of Secretary of State Marco Rubio, that he does not want the war to end

because he belongs to the neocon camp that thinks the war will bleed Russia dry and adversely affect President Putin's presidency, you're suggesting that there are elements of the Russian government that do not want the war to end, the military industrial complex, certain elements in the military, certain elements in the intelligence community, because they're at the height of their power. This is rather normal.

I don't see any, any, any, aberration is, but let's just call facts as they are. There are reasons why certain groups in government would find the war to be convenient. Is the war popular amongst average Russians? Are they cheering on the Russian military? Or is it not in the Russian consciousness? Is it not something they talk about every day? It's just something happening in Ukraine. Or I don't like what the war is doing to me now, and I wish Putin would end it. Where? Where? Can you put your thumb on the pulse of Russian thinking, or is there no one standard way of thinking common to the Russian people? Well, there is one standard common to Russian people, and that is they want the war to end with Russian victory.

That is 100% guaranteed. But once you get past that commonality, how is Russian victory going to be assured? That's where differences come up. got it what do you think will happen do you think we'll wake up one morning and five irishniks will have a leveled kev or do you think president putin will maintain slow methodical patient wearing down of the ukrainian military i don't think the latter is going to happen because the Ukrainian military is not what's behind this war. It is London, Paris, and Berlin that behind the war today.

And they are not going away. They have not conceded defeat. They are ready to put up, particularly the frozen Russian assets, to keep the war going while they rearm and prepare for direct conflict with Russia. Are they going to send troops to Ukraine? They may. It is possible. It's unlikely, but it's possible. Well, if they don't send troops and the Ukrainian military is on its last legs,

I mean, what good is military equipment if there are not human beings to operate it? I wouldn't agree it's on its last legs. The front line, present front line, is on its last legs. But we're still east of the Napa River. If the Russians in the next several months, and I don't say next several days, but the next several months push further and reach to NEPR. Well, that's it. They've reached

40% of the Ukrainian territory. What about the rest? The other 60%. They don't want to move there because it is Ukrainian-Ukrainian. They will be an army of occupation when they set foot there. And that will be dangerous, expensive, and it will not bring them closer

to a normalization of the rest of the world. So that is not thinkable. The idea of this war will end after Bakroth's falls, I mean, it could be long. We've had a lot of false predictions for the last three years, including my own. But it seems to me improbable that there will be a collapse on the Ukrainian side after Parkroft's falls, which is a matter of days. Got it. Dr. Docter, thank you very much. A fascinating series of observations, much of it firsthand.

And I thank you for your time. Thanks for accommodating my schedule. We'll look forward to seeing you again, as always, next week. That's your pleasure. You're welcome. Coming up later today at 11 o'clock this morning, Phil Giraldi at 1.15 this afternoon from the Ron Paul Institute, my dear friend Daniel McAdams, at 2 o'clock this afternoon, Aaron Monte, at 3 o'clock this afternoon from St. Petersburg, Russia, Scott Ritter. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.