Judging Freedom - Gilbert Doctorow : Trump Through Russian Eyes

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

Gilbert Doctorow : Trump Through Russian EyesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Pragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? Jefferson was right? What if that government is best, which governs least? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish

fighting for freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Wednesday, January 21st, 2006. Gilbert Dr. O joins us now. Gilbert, always a pleasure, my dear friend. Does the Kremlin care about Greenland?

They're very cautious about that is the Kremlin proper. Mr. Putin, Mr. Lovroff, are very careful what they say about Greenland. They make it clear, one thing that Lof made clear when he spoke in Davos, a day ago, was that the Kremlin has no disowns on Greenland, nor does China.

So that is as close as they come to criticizing anything that Trump says about Greenland. Otherwise, they beg off. Now, that does not mean that the entourage or the chattering classes in the Moscow elites are quiet about Greenland. They are very talkative about it. And that's something I hope we can explore a bit now. I'm going to explore right now. We'll start with Dimitri Peskov, who's the President Putin's official spokesperson. This is January 16, which is last Friday, so four days ago. Chris cut number 14.

Like the rest of the world, we have been following the situation around Greenland and note that the situation is quite contradictory. We proceed from the assumption that Greenland is part of the Kingdom of Denmark. We have heard statements from Denmark and Greenland. that Greenland isn't up for sale, and we also heard statements from Washington that it's formulating offers to purchase Greenland in some form. The situation is unusual, I would even say extraordinary from the point of view of international law. But on the other hand, President Trump himself has said that international law isn't a priority

substance for him, and so the situation is developing on some other trajectory, and we will be watching, along with the rest of the world, which trajectory? How do you read that? It's very, as Putin himself would say, nuanced. He's careful to uphold international law as a Russian foreign policy, objective, and commitment. He's avoiding criticizing Trump as he could or should, basically. on that first statement. So they're holding back. The last thing they want to do is to get Trump wild up or have him think that they oppose what he's doing in Greenland, because finally

they don't oppose it. But they can't say that. Do you think that they regard Anchorage, it seems like it was years ago, it was only a few months ago, the meeting between President's Putin and Trump in Anchorage as either a fraud or a deception or a scheme or a waste of time? I think it's a safe bet that Putin was impressed by Trump's sincerity in wanting to establish or reestablish normal diplomatic and cultural and commercial relations with between the United States and Russia. I think he was deeply impressed that that is what the present lines. Of course, the Russians would stand back of it because they know what waters, what dangerous waters, Trump is navigating, where he has severe opposition, some of it within his

own party, certainly in Congress on the Democratic side. And those enemies that he has within Washington are allied with and scheming behind his back with the European opponents who are making trouble for him in the attempted negotiated settlement of the Ukraine-Russia war, which they clearly do not want to end. So the Russians appreciate the situation which makes it difficult for anyone to be confident that Trump will succeed in reestablishing normal relations. Nonetheless, they give him credit at a personal level for trying to do that. Some of, well, let me ask you, I'm going to guess that the Russians do, the Kremlin does understand this.

Some of Trump's severest opponents are in his own party, like Senator Lindsey Graham, who was a brokenhearted that Trump did not bomb Tehran last week. We'll get to Iran in a few minutes. Who doesn't want the war to end, who still believes or says he believes that the Ukrainians can win, who would love nothing more. more than to drive Vladimir Putin from office. This is the opposite of what you've described the Russians believe Trump wants in his relationships with them. Right, but we, I answered your question very directly because of a pointed question asking me about Vladimir Putin,

about Pierskoff, who is his spokesman, and indirectly I mentioned Lavrov. However, as I was trying to say, There is large discussion on Russian television in the most responsible talk shows that I look in at, in particular evening with Vladimir Salaviov, which make it clear that the smart people in Moscow understand perfectly that Mr. Trump is trying to destroy nature from within. Now, I have made that point. And in my most recent writings about this, for the EU censors who may be following me,

I remind them that I got the idea first. Are the EU censors following you? I'm sure they're watching everybody. No matter. That's what they're paid to do. The point is that in the talking circles, in the experts and Duma members who appear on Solothiov's show, there's a clear understanding that Trump is trying to destroy both the EU and NATO. And they are, of course, in favor of it.

Going back, because I'm preparing my next volume of war diaries, and I see that from the beginning, from Trump's first days in office in 2025, the Russians were calling him the American Garbachev, which was not a compliment for the most part, because they had in mind someone who's disruptive a wrecking ball who wrecks the house that falls on his head. And this is what they thought what Trump might end up doing,

which would have thought that without a sense of concern, of course, because they had voted, people who said they were in favor of the Democrats in the election, were in favor of it because I thought that Biden and his successors would destroy the United States economy and so would impair the United States hegemony. However, looking at the first days of Trump, his hyperactive wrecking ball, they saw, my goodness, this looks like Robert Trump.

Now, from the benefit of close to a year, they have become much more comfortable with this wrecking ball. And I think there are some people not think I know, because I look at what a lot of our, by the way, of our conversations on this show are then reproduced not just in a translation of a video. posting, but in texts which take large sections of our conversation and post it and get 30,000 Russians watching it. So I look at what they are finding in our conversations that are useful and enforcing of their own views. And here it is that Trump is, as I've been saying, he has a method to his madness. I know there are some people on your show who think he should be taken away in a straight jacket.

I'm not one of them. I firmly believe that behind all of these staged political events, he has definite, firm, and unwavering objectives. And to do in his enemies. And I hear listen to some commentary on these panels. And someone who is more mainstream, shall we say, says that, oh, how can this be that he's ruining relations with our close allies? and my point is they're not allies from the standpoint of Donald Trump.

They are his enemies and is not an arbitrary call. They have been trying to ruin his efforts at peace with the Ukraine. And they are from the woke group, the very same Democrats that he sees around him and is trying to unseat in the United States political scene. they're the same people who are sitting in 25 out of the 27 leadership positions in the European member states. So this logic to which is trying to wreck Europe. Right, right. But to reinforce what you just said and focus on it,

here's a senior member of the Labor Party in the House of Commons just two days ago, on the floor of the House of Commons, saying things about Trump that you would rarely hear even from the Democrats on the floor of the House of Representatives. Chris Cut, number 16. Madam Deputy Speaker,

President Trump is acting like an international gangster. Threatened to trample over the sovereignty of an ally, threatening the end of NATO altogether, and now threatening to hit our country and seven European allies with outrageous, damaging tariffs unless he gets his hands on Greenland.

The present of the United States is attacking our economy, our livelihoods and our national security. The only people cheering him on are Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping. We have to finally be clear-eyed about the sort of man Trump is and treat him accordingly. He is a bully. He thinks he can grab whatever he wants using force. if necessary, and he is corrupt, the most corrupt present the United States has ever seen. So there are only two ways of getting him to back down, bribing him with a new debt, perhaps, or a few billion is crypto account, or standing up to him like we would with any

other bully. Two things before you comment. One is earlier, before he said that. the House of Commons was addressed by Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, a first in history. And two is, why would Kier Stormer want him to say that? Well, Donald Trump, in the present fracas over Greenland, is finally saying what he thinks of all these people. He was smiley, smiley with Kier Stommer all along, up until now. Now finally, he has had the opportunity to identify a point of difference, which is less dangerous for him.

It's not saying that Starmers is for the Ukrainians and I'm not. No, he's saying that Starmor has done some pretty stupid things, like giving up Diego Garcia to Mauritius. Well, that's something that, first of all, most of Congress wouldn't know where Diego Garcia is and where Mauritius is. So it's pretty safe that it's not going to be a hot issue. And it is insulting, directly insulting Kirstama, whom he certainly has no respect for. Yesterday he insulted Macron, saying that he's not accepting the invitation to a dinner with Macron on Thursday.

And he's not too upset that Macron has declined to join his peace board because Macron won't be in power for it after a few months. Well, well, he's going after them all right. And so when you see this kind of verbal attack on Trump, which was mostly correct, except for the idea that Trump is the most corrupt president in history. No, I think the preceding president beat Trump by far, by Joe Biden.

But that's a separate issue. These would become very personal attacks. Well, I think that Trump is very comfortable with that. He has the hide of the rhinoceros. And so all of this, he survived the defeat of 2020. And the Russia, Russia, Russia lies about himself. And not to mention the awful thing said about him in various files that were used by the Clinton administration,

the Clinton electoral group to defame him. He survived a little bit, and this doesn't bother him. Did Russian intelligence help defeat MI6 CIA and Mossad in the streets in Tehran last week? It looks that way. Well, I think we're all hearing the same accounts. That is that as many as 30,000 Starlink receivers who had been distributed, by Mossad and MI6 and so forth to what we can call fifth column or traders in the pay of Mossad in Iran. And that with the help of Russian electronic warfare, these, the holders of these

receivers were identified and probably were shot. As many as 30,000 people may have been intercepted thanks to Russian intelligence provided to Iran. Will the Kremlin take some ostentatious revenge on the U.S. because of its understanding, which doesn't seem to be disputed, Gilbert, that the CIA orchestrated or facilitated the attacks on President Putin's homin Valdei. I mean, you could argue that this was an attempt to kill Vladimir Putin. You could argue that this was attempt to impair the leadership substantially because of the electronic gear inside the House and closely affiliated with it? All of that is correct.

But the issue is what was Trump's role in all this? And from the standpoint of the Kremlin, I think is a safe bet that they see the CIA as having operated independently of the president's office and that he was as surprised as what happened as they were. Let's recall. The Russians know very well about the role of the CIA in the murder of Kennedy. They have no doubt about the ability of the CIA to violate the law and to operate independent of any executive control. They believe, for the reasons I mentioned before, the meeting in Anchorage, they believe that Donald Trump personally is committed to restoring relations,

and that is hardly in line with murdering Mr. Putin. So they, I think they accept that this was done without his knowledge and against his wishes. It's a government out of control. If Trump's most ardent wish, and you stated this very articulately, Gilbert, at the outset of this interview, is a reestablishment of the time,

diplomatic, political, cultural, commercial, academic, religious, you can go on and on, relations between Russia and the United States. And a part of his government that he can't control wants to prevent that from happening by killing the president on the other side. What the hell is Trump the president of? We have to put this whole issue in a broader context. I said that he wants, that Trump wants to reestablish an office. relations with Russia, not as an end in and of itself. It is part of his global vision of what

U.S. foreign policy should be. And much of that was expressed in the new strategy document, a national strategy document that was issued in December. It is essentially a rail politic power sharing by major powers. At least three of them, they're identifiable, United States, China and Russia, with a possible fourth member, India, if they're up to it. But I think from Trump's standpoint, is doubtful of India is up to it. It doesn't have the military wherewithal. It doesn't have the strong power the way the other two countries do. And for this to happen, he has to separate Russia and China and deal with them as equal, great powers with their own spheres,

of influence and their own regional hegemony. That gives him a free man to have total hegemony in the Western Hemisphere. That is his vision of the world and is not a warlike vision. This again goes back to who his mentor was. His mentor was in foreign policy was clearly Henry Kissinger. And there are a lot of obnoxious things that Kissinger did during his career and there are a lot of things that he never lived down. But he had a vision, a rail politic vision, that was unique in the 20th century. And I think he passed along some of these ideas to Donald, who is not an idiot, not by any means. Where will Trump's tariffs over Greenland and any response from the EU, particularly Britain and France, lead us?

Well, these are temporary measures. They are shock and all measures to persuade the Europeans. backed up. And I think ultimately they will. Whatever happens, whether there is a sale, which is a possibility, maybe the Danes would be absolute fools that they turn down 700 billion euros for Greenland. That will give them financial independence. They'll be better off than the whole rest of the European Union for the next 10 years. So maybe some common sense will reach the ordinary Danes, even if the financial is an ideologue and rather delusional. I think that a settlement will come. At the same time, that does not mean that

things will go on swimmingly with NATO. I think there is going to be such a bitter feeling in Europe about the violation of all of their wonderful values that they will be headed for the exit on NATO. Whether it happens in two weeks or in a year, it's going to happen. All right. Before we leave, what happened in the last? Diego Garcia, how does that affect Donald Trump? What is the average American, middle-class American, care about Diego Garcia? Well, the average American, I think, is not going to find

Diego Garcia on the map or easily. I only am conscious of its importance because I visited Seychelles. We have some friends from Belgium who have one of them is from Seychelles, and we have a home there. So we visited that three years ago. And I heard he was a person in local politics, and so I understood what the issues are there and get Diego, Diego Garcia, is very prominent in their thinking because of something that happened, which makes the raising of this issue by Trump two-edged sword. On the one side, he wants to emphasize his point that making an agreement for lease is stupid. Now, he's a land, he's a guy in real estate.

He knows the value of leases. I don't think anyone whispered to him, but I would whisper to him, that, you know, the Russians had a 40, just concluded a 40-year lease on Sevastopol. And then there was the February 22, Puteta, and everyone knew that the first thing that that new government would do would be to revoke the lease. So it is with the 99-year lease that the Mauritius is now giving

to Great Britain over Diego Gassia. So on the one hand, That strengthens his argument about the foolishness of being a leaseholder, a lessee rather, for Greenland. He wants to own it with property rights. There's the real estate developer speaking to you. On the other hand, there's a negative here, a very important one, which the average American should be aware of, and certainly which the average Inuit, who is a Greenlander, should be aware of. Diego Garcia is a hotspot because when the Americans and the British decided to build a military base there,

they evicted all of the natives on that island and they removed them to other islands in different jurisdictions. The islands in that part of the South Indian Sea were alternately owned by the British and French. And I forget which islands these Diego Garcia people were removed to. But if I were in Greenland, I would just take a look at that because It's right. So bottom line, what's on Diego Garcia now and who owns it? Do the British run it or the British give it away? And that's what Trump is so upset about.

That's what he's upset about. They gave it back in an agreement that was reached in May 2025. Curiously, though, Rubio at the time didn't have any negative things to say about it. Now Trump is saying that's a darn stupid thing to have done. because there's a massive investment in the base. It is a major point of logistics and of snooping for the United States in the south of the beaches of the Indian Ocean and is a major point of control for East Africa.

Now, this question of leases is really pretty tricky. and again, his real estate background makes him more sensitive to it than most people would be. As I mentioned, there's the 40-year lease on Sevastopol, which could have been overturned at once. The 99-year lease, of course, it can be overturned if there's a change of government in Mauritius. This area, I have to state, this area is all in contention between the Chinese and the Indians. The Indians would be interested is very clear. It's their sphere of influence. The Chinese also wanted to be for the strategic reasons.

The United States, and by the way, on the question of being evicted, the United States had in Seychelles, in the capital city, Victoria, on hill overlooking Victoria, it had a major snooping base, electronic and I think radar station to control all maritime and air movements in the South Indian Sea. The lease price was raised by the Seychelles government, like 10 times, to a point where the United States gave up this important base. And the territory and the land on which that American base existed until 20 years ago was bought

by the United Arab Emirates. And they have a palatial residence there, which they use. And their emir visits it. And it's also a place for doing very good confidential negotiations. is a diplomatic work. Mr. Koste, who is the head of the most important Nieschekonom Bank, T.B., now the leading friend of Putin, Mr. Kostin has a little yacht in Victoria Harbor and Cajonels.

So these areas may seem remote from the perspective of New York or Los Angeles, but in Europe and Africa, they're not remote, and in India, certainly not remote. Gilbert, Dr. O, thank you, my dear friend. another fascinating conversation. Much appreciated. Thanks for accommodating my schedule. We'll look forward to seeing you next week. Very good.

Thank you. Coming up later today at 10 this morning, Professor Jeffrey Sachs at 11 this morning, Aaron Mote, at 1 this afternoon, Professor Glenn Deeson, and maybe, maybe at 3 this afternoon, Phil Giraldi. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom.