Judging Freedom - Ian Proud: Europe, Ukraine, and Trump

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Ian Proud: Europe, Ukraine, and TrumpSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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The UK won't be able to kind of meet the funding needs. We don't have any money left. The Germans are cutting back on their money ahead of elections. They don't have any money left. The Germans are cutting back on their money ahead of elections. They don't have any money themselves. They're in massive debt. So they can either stop the war or their economy can go into meltdown, seems, you know, the two options available to them. So NATO as a whole nor any of the EU nations can adequately replace the American largesse. That's absolutely correct. You know, the United States of America have so far put in $175 billion since 2022 into Ukraine, and that's almost the size of Ukraine's economy.

No other country or group of countries comes anywhere close to that, and they're not going to come close to that if Trump, as you say, pulls the plug. I don't know what Trump is going to do, but here's what he said about Zelensky, about the many, many people who are dead, and about how horrific the war is. And he said this just a few minutes ago. Cut number 13. President Zelensky would like to have peace. He's told me that very strongly. He'd like to have peace, but it takes two to tango. We'll

see what happens. Anytime they want, I'll meet. I'd like to see that end. Millions of people are being killed and they're being killed. It's a vicious situation. And they're now largely soldiers. A lot of people's people have been killed in the cities. They look like demolition sites. The thing with Ukraine is that many more people died than you're reporting. You're not reporting the real numbers. And I'm not blaming you for that. I'm blaming I'm blaming maybe our government for not wanting to release those numbers. Many more people died than what you know about. I don't know what he's going to do. You know, at one point in the campaign, he said he could end the war in 24 hours. And then another point after he was elected, he said he'll end the war before he's inaugurated. And then shortly before he was inaugurated, he said it will take six

months to end the war. And then we had that statement. I misspoke. It wasn't earlier today. It was yesterday. But, you know, it was in the White House. And since his inauguration, it's hard to put a finger on things. Under our system, the spigot is dry. I mean, if he wants to continue sending what Joe Biden has been sending, he's got to go to Congress. He's got a lot of sway with Congress, even though most of the Republicans have said to Joe, this is it. This is the last time. So I don't know what's going to happen next. What would Sir Keir Starmer prefer that Donald Trump do vis-a-vis Ukraine? Well, Keir Starmer has just signed a 100-year pact with Ukraine, which I'm sure is making most Ukrainians feel much safer in their beds at night.

Keir Starmer would clearly like the United States to continue to provide the funding to Ukraine that it's been providing hitherto since since the war started but that's not going to happen it seems to me from everything that trump has said that leaves the uk in a bit of a policy no man's land again as it was in 2017 the last time president trump came to power at a time when we are drifting further away from europe so i think our ability to influence what's going on is reducing even further from an already very low position right now. What is this 100-year pact? Are you being sarcastic or is it true? Who's ever heard of a 100-year pact? Well, I wish I was being sarcastic, but no, you know, Keir Starmer and Zelensky signed this grand 100-year pact, which included no new money, by the way, except for £40 million.

That's, I think, about $50 million to help me build Ukraine's economy after the war comes to an end. You know, 100-year pact, security assurances. Nothing's been written on paper. Nothing's been made public. But I think what the the point was was that you know starmer was trying to kind of assure zielinski that he's got a friend for his friend for life even though zielinski's political life will come to an end shortly after the war finishes

and when will secure's political life come to an end is he still on eggshells, as we say here in the US, over his failure to prosecute people when he was a prosecutor? This is before he was the prime minister. Well, we now have this vicious murderer who killed these innocent young schoolgirls, you know, in the north of England attending a Taylor Swift party, an absolutely tragic, you know, situation. And it now turns out that actually, the government wasn't honest with the public at the start about the fact that this person had been on an anti

terrorism programme several times and had been missed by the system, you know, before he then rampaged into this party and killed these innocent children. So, you know, he's with the economy suffering badly as well. He doesn't seem to be sort of cracking any good news right now, sadly. But then, you know, we've had a string of pretty bad prime ministers, and in that regard, he's no different. If he leaves office, this would not mean that a conservative would replace him. This just means that his party, the Labour Party, would choose another prime minister.

Is that essentially correct? That is absolutely correct, although I think it's quite unlikely that he will leave office. You know, he has such a big majority in Parliament that he's just going to hunker down and wait for the clouds, hopefully to blow over. Let's see if they do. Theresa May in the past was a similarly you know

bad Prime Minister she hung on for a year and a half before eventually sort of giving in and stepping aside for Boris Johnson who we all know you know wasn't a complete success himself so I don't see that uh Starmer is going to step aside any soon anytime soon he's had a string of bad news I think he's going to ride it out is there any um effort on the part of European elites to do something for Ukraine to replace the likely American withdrawal well there's lots of talk about it. You know, you find these enormously powerful countries like Estonia and places like that, talking about the need to fight the last Ukrainian, but they don't have any money. And in fact, what has happened over the past year is that rather than giving Ukraine free money, they've actually increasingly given Ukraine debt and loans to pay for the war and you know they can

give ukraine more loans but that's just going to make ukraine's problems even more dire over the longer term so nobody has any new money you know to give to ukraine however much european elites talk up the need to keep on keep on fighting with all of ukraine's problems with its government uh and even some of its hospitals being funded by the American government here's Prime Minister Zelensky talking about the aid Ukraine is giving to Syria this must be with American cash but but listen to this. Cut number 11. And Ukraine's already stepping in to support the new Syria. Our ministers have been to Damascus, and we've launched a food aid program for Syria called Food from Ukraine. And we are getting our partners involved to invest in these delivers and in building food production

facilities and europe could totally step in as a security donor for syria time to stop getting headaches from that direction and europe together with america should put pay to the Iranian threat. What do you make of this, Ian? Well, for every $1 the Ukrainian government spends, it gets 50 cents given to it from foreign countries. So essentially, as much of that money is from the United States of America, you are paying for Ukrainian aid to Syria. And I think what it means probably is free grain shipments to Syria. But, you know, Ukraine has no money.

You know, it runs its whole country on credit cards. And actually, they're your credit cards and my credit cards as well, as it happens, although my credit card's a lot smaller than the United States one, of course, as a Brit. Here's Zelensky again asking what Trump will do. Cut number 10. But will President Trump listen to Europe or will he negotiate with Russia and China without Europe? Europe needs to learn how how to fully take care of itself so that the world can't afford to ignore it.

It's vital to maintain unity in Europe because the world doesn't care about just Budapest or Brussels. It cares about Europe as a whole. Does he have credibility with European elites? Does he resonate with rank and file middle class Europeans? Well, he resonates with European elites in Western Europe. He doesn't resonate with European elites in Central Europe, in places like Hungary, Slovakia, now Austria, Romania, Croatia has just elected another kind of more nationalist, you know, president for the second time. So he resonates with some elites, the wealthier elites in Brussels and places like that. In Budapest, you know, you refer to both places, he doesn't

resonate, you know, Orban and others want to kind of end this ridiculous war. I think most ordinary people in Europe haven't got a clue what's going on. They're blissfully unaware of how bad European policy is, fed an absolute blizzard of propaganda that everything's going fine. And if we carry on doing what we've been doing for the past 10 years, eventually it will work. Although there's no evidence that it will ever work.

What does the Kremlin's read on Zelensky? Well, they see him as an unelected, you know, a puppet leader. They see him as a puppet leader put in place by the United States of America and by, you know, to a lesser extent, you know, by the Europeans. They see that he's got no legitimacy because, you know, his electoral mandate ran out, you know, in March of 2024. And he's got no legitimacy because his electoral mandate ran out in March of 2024, and he's only in power because the Americans and the Europeans are sort of keeping him in power. And actually, he's made it illegal for anybody in Ukraine to talk to Russia, so they don't even have the opportunity to engage with him, not that they necessarily want to.

So I think from the Russian point of view, they see the kind of key dealmakers in this as Donald Trump and, you know, they'll willingly engage with Donald Trump. Let's see, you know, how Trump is able somehow to navigate, you know, Zelensky and Putin around the same table. I mean, that's the thing that could take the most time. Here is Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov yesterday. Cut number nine. President Trump and his administration intend to advance the interests of the United States on the world stage. The interests of the United States has never changed, regardless of whether a Democrat

or Republican is in the White House. The interest is to always be stronger than any competitor. I think he's right. I think it doesn't matter whether a Republican or a Democrat is in the White House. American foreign policy is essentially the same. What do you think? Well, you know, Donald Trump wants to make America great again. I mean, in some regards, although, you know, with a different texture,

it's no different really from, you know, from what Biden did in terms of wanting to maintain the U.S. hegemony over foreign policy. At a time when centers of global power are dissipating you know everything's moving towards Asia China is growing the BRICS is emerging and so on so at some point there needs to be a moment of moderation where you know the United States you know even though it is still by far the largest military power the world has ever seen of course you know it, that it finds a way to coexist with other blocks of power around the world. However uncomfortable that will be, it's an inflection point that it seems that we haven't reached yet. Can Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin sit down and cut a deal

which would result in lasting peace between the US and Russia? Well, I think they can cut a deal that will last as long as Donald Trump remains in power. Further beyond that, you know, who knows? But, you know, with J.D. Vance being a possible, a long-term prospect, you know, maybe a policy can be put in place that endures at least for the coming decade. Let's see, you know, what a policy can be put in place that endures at least for the coming decade. Let's see, you know, what happens there. I think the key with Trump is, unlike Biden, who refused to talk to Putin,

you know, he did meet him in Switzerland, to be fair to Biden, but generally speaking, he's ignored Putin. Trump has shown he's willing and ready to engage, you know, with Putin to sort of cut deals. And I think that that's a key difference. Let's hope they do that very soon. Here's Putin's attitude about speaking with Trump on inauguration day. He said this two days ago. Cut number eight. We've heard his commitment to do everything to prevent World War

Three. Of course, we welcome this approach and we congratulate the newly elected President of the United States on his inauguration. We have never been against dialogue. We have always to see the dialogue built upon equality and mutual respect, considering the common positions on our country on a number of international issues, including strengthening security and political stability. We're also open for dialogue with the new US administration on the Ukrainian conflict. The most important thing here is to eliminate the fundamental reason for the conflict. That's the most important. And as for settling the situation itself, its goal should be not a brief ceasefire, not just getting some time to regroup and rearm and carry on the conflict, but long-term peace based on respect to lawful interests of all people and nationalities living in the region. And, of course, we're going to fight for the interests of Russia and its people. This is actually the goal and point of the special military operation.

Truly articulate, no? Vladimir Putin is acutely aware that the United States of America is a far more powerful economically state, you know, than Russia is, even though, you know, Russia is a peer in terms of its nuclear sort of arsenal. You know, Putin is acutely aware of that. He was ready and actually had quite good relations with Trump last time around, even though movements on the Hill with the cats are kind of sanctions act kind of scupper that a bit, they still maintain sort of, uh, you know, pragmatic relationships, everything I've seen in the time I lived in, in Moscow studying, uh, you know, Putin up close, um, was that actually, you know, Russia will cut deal is ready, you know, to engage in dialogue, but it wants to be treated with respect. And it wants its single core interest,

which has always been this issue of NATO enlargement, for the first time in 16 years to be taken seriously. And if that issue can be resolved, everything else suddenly becomes much easier. I mean, you know, the Russians ultimately want to live in peace, but they don't want to kind of have NATO right up on the border. That position has never changed, and it will never change as long as he's in power and he still appears to be in the moodness of health. I assume that that's what he's talking about when he says the core reason for the special military operation, it's because of NATO.

If Donald Trump says no NATO, Ukraine will never be in NATO as long as I'm president, that might change the entire military outlook in Ukraine, no? That is absolutely the single core issue that Vladimir Putin has been talking about since 2008 and even before 2008 after the Bolts joined NATO in 2006. So 17 years now, guys, let's finally put this one to bed and say, actually, you know, no NATO for Ukraine, but EU, yes. Why not?

But NATO, no, never. Not no, not for the next few years. No, never. And suddenly life becomes much easier. What is the attitude of the British public about Boris Johnson's having scuttled the peace deal entered into by Ukraine and Russia back in 2022. The vast majority of British people have absolutely no clue about that. You know, they see him as an utter buffoon on the back of what he did during the COVID period. He's a bit of a clown.

But I think we don't really get independent news in this country, unlike in the United States where you do get a variegated sort of media. We don't get independent news on what's happening in Ukraine. We only get government propaganda from all the mainstream media channels. So most British people are absolutely clueless about the fact that him, Victoria Nuland, Liz Truss know in this kind of terrible trio you know scuppered that piece still in istanbul does the kremlin understand the victoria newland mentality that russia is the enemy and must be beaten back does the kremlin get that oh yes and they feel it

and they talk about it and actually you know uh the the problem is you know judge that you know when we do our sort of uh fighting on mtv and on instagram and on you know tick tock and everything else we you know we talk to the cameras about russia rather than actually talking to russian people that just makes them more resistant you know you're john mccain's you know and all these people all all the time this is talking down the russians that just makes the russians more determined never to comply with the things that they want you know to happen and i think until we get to the point where we actually have a respectful we don't have to like them a respectful dialogue with russia only then can we get to get to the point of actually reaching a deal that has to start with listening to what russia wants what it's always wanted the nato issue but show some respect diplomacy is but you know it's not about being

friends it's about coexistence and actually showing respect and having honest dialogue to tackle the most difficult challenges the world faces right now and let's be honest we face a lot ian proud thank you my dear friend thank you very much for your time and for your thoughts i hope you'll come back and visit with us again and i promise to be rid of this frog in my throat the next time you hear me get better soon judge look forward to seeing you again thank you all the best all this coming up later today at two o'clock this afternoon anya parampal at three o'clock phil giraldi at four o'clock scott ritter judge the palatano for judging freedom I'm out.