Judging Freedom - INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern: Is/Was WWIII Pre-Planned?

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern: Is/Was WWIII Pre-Planned?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, April 5th, 2024. It's the end of the day. It's the end of the week. It's a very happy time for most of us, at least on the East Coast of the United States. It's the end of the day. It's the end of the week. It's a very happy time for most of us, at least on the East Coast of the United States. It's our Intelligence Community Roundtable with my dear friends and colleagues, Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson. Gentlemen, welcome here. Always a pleasure. Thanks. with Colonel Larry Wilkerson, in which he opined that sources of his in the intelligence community, former intelligence community members, as are the two of you, are convinced that the United States

was behind the organization and recruitment of the people that slaughtered the innocents at the Krokus concert hall in Moscow. Is this reasonable, Larry? Yeah, no, it's not unreasonable, because we had some very odd behavior by the United States. The day before the attack took place, an article was placed in the Financial Times in which U.S. officials were complaining about these unauthorized brazen attacks by Ukraine. So right away, that implies they've got some knowledge

that the Ukrainians are getting ready to do something crazy as they are portraying it. At 3.30 a.m. Eastern Time on the 22nd, the day of the attack, there was this, it's called Open Source Intelligence Defender. Been a very, I call him a mouthpiece for the intelligence community. He's just been a vehicle for putting out propaganda. He put up the same thing about the unauthorized brazen attack. And then on top of it the united states comes out

immediately within 55 minutes to say nope wasn't ukraine we didn't have we didn't know how many people had were attacking we didn't know how many had been killed or wounded or taken hostage we had no investigators on the ground we didn't know what the disposition of the captives were, of the terrorists were. I mean, there were so many unanswered questions, and yet the Biden administration thought it was a good idea to come out and say, oh, no, we know it was not Ukraine. Couldn't have been Ukraine. When they've been telling the newspaper that Ukraine's been doing crazy stuff all along. So, yeah. Ray, has the CIA recruited ISIS and ISIS-K, and you can explain the difference if there is one, other than nomenclature, to engage in terrorist acts, to do its dirty work? Judge, ISIS-K and ISIS are pretty much creatures of the CIA and the Brits.

I mean, it's really pretty obvious. Now, well, Al-Qaeda, that was something that the U.S. didn't control, obviously. ISIS-K and all those people that were trained in that base just outside of the Syrian border there and that were put into play in Syria and supported by that base in Jordan, they were pretty much our stooges. So for the U.S., as Larry says, to come out and say so quickly, oh, by the way, it wasn't us. It wasn't the Ukraine. Because let's face it, if it was Ukraine, it was us. And cui bono. Who has the incentive to give Russia a black eye like that planned, as I believe, earlier before the election, just to show that Putin is not completely in

control. So what I'm saying here is that Larry's evidence, the way we construct it, is pretty substantial and pretty convincing. Larry Wilkerson may have some more sources. Mine are all dead now. We're past that. But, you know, it's the logical thing. You know, who else has the incentive to do this? Who was it that the U.S. knew just enough to warn its own citizens and the British citizens, hey, 48 hours, stay away from that big concert by Shaman. Everybody's going to be there. Stay away from that. And then all of a sudden, 22 on the 22nd, it happened.

So it stinks to high heaven. I think what we need to do is simply wait and see what the Russians come up with in view of their investigations. Who is it? Well, both the highest security officials have said now that they trace it to the U.S. and to NATO and to the U.K. And, of course, the Ukrainians, as the New York Times itself has suggested just three short weeks ago, the Ukrainian security services are also creatures of the CIA. Larry, Cy Hirsch says that Joe Biden personally signed off on the destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline. As far as we know, nobody died there. They did

a tremendous amount of damage and lied about it. Cy wrote a great piece. I know we've had some issues with Cy since then, but not about the Nord Stream pipeline. That's a prelude to my question. Something of this magnitude, the CIA hiring ISIS-K to kill 140 Russian young people at a concert outside of Moscow, how high up the food chain would approval be necessary for something of this magnitude? Would it have to have been signed off by President Biden himself, Larry? Not in this case. I think what we're looking at, this is akin to being an accessory to murder, where you buy the guy who commits murder a gun, but you don't keep control of it, you don't monitor its use, and then they go off and kill somebody.

Now, under law, you're just as guilty. You enabled that criminal, particularly if the person's a felon. So I think in this case, I don't think the United States said, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to get these ISIS-K characters. We're going to launch this attack and know that they constructed it from soup to nuts. I don't think that's what happened. I think they have been working and enabling the Ukrainians to do what they did.

And they were knowledgeable that it was going to take place. Didn't stop to intervene. And as Ray pointed out, look, the CIA has been involved with both the SBU and other intelligence organizations in Ukraine for years. So this is, we're guilt, if you will, guilt by association, if nothing else. So, Ray, what do the president's intelligence community briefers, a job you once had, tell him? The Russians know that we did it, Mr. President? That's a really $64

question, Judge. I think it's a $64,000 question. I'm embarrassed to have to tell you how things work, okay? The CIA briefer is not read in on these covert action operations. He's not the last to know but he's sort of like the next to the last to know that channel is far independent from substantive intelligence officers there are I have to say again two CIA's

now in addition to that in addition to the fact that the substantive officers have no chop on whether this makes any sense or whether we should let the Ukrainians go off half-cocked like this, no input from the substantive people, as was the case in the Bay of Pigs, where the analysis unit was kept in the dark about that operation. No one asked the analysis unit, hey, these operatives say that Castro will be thrown out by his people by a popular uprising. What do you think of that? They weren't given the chance, okay? So that's how that works. Now, the other thing is plausible deniability, okay? I don't think the president knew chapter and verse about this. I don't think Bill Burns knew chapter and verse about this. They liked't think Bill Burns knew chapter and verse about this. They liked it, so we'll go ahead and do these things.

And in addition to all that, even that New York Times article made a point of saying, you know, we train these guys, we train them in the worst kinds of things, but we said, please don't do the worst kinds of things while asking her first. And they don't ask us first. So, you know, it's kind of a, it's mirrors, what do they call it? Spoken mirrors. Larry, two people, if Colonel Wilkerson's sources are correct, two people we know for sure know about this are Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrovrov what are they going to

do about it well i think they're doing what they're doing right now they're destroying the ukrainian army there's nothing to be gained by launching an attack on washington dc blowing up some some facility in the united states uh i think they've recognized that the United States, this was an act of desperation. Now, there have been terrorist attacks for two years. Yeah, they killed 144 now, I guess the number is. But there have been body counts higher than that accumulated over time since 2014.

And this has all been enabled by the West. I think Lavrov and Putin recognize they've got to militarily destroy Ukraine, which they're doing. And in the process, they're destroying NATO because NATO does not have an answer for what Russia is doing. And it's accelerating, not decelerating in terms of the process of collapse. Chris, play the clip, please, of Chef Jose Andres. Gentlemen, you know the name. The founder, international chef, born in Spain, a naturalized American citizen, the founder and head of the World Central Food Bank, explaining what happened to his people in Gaza. What I know is that we were targeted deliberately, nonstop, until everybody was dead in this convoy.

This happened over more than 1.5, 1.8 kilometers. So this was not just a bad luck situation where, oops, we dropped the bomb in the wrong place or not. This was over 1.5, 1.8 kilometers with a very defined humanitarian convoy that had signs in the top, in the roof, that cannot be the role of an army. That cannot be the role of an army that has hundreds of drones above Gaza in any single moment. Humanitarians and civilians should never be paying the consequences of war. This is a basic principle of humanity. At the time, this looks like it's not a war against terrorism anymore. Seems this is a war against humanity itself. War against humanity itself. Now, I didn't know what

I'm about to tell you. Scott Ritter tells us that Chef Andres is a very close friend of Tony Blinken and has catered many, many events at the State Department. He obviously didn't mention Joe Biden and Tony Blinken by name, Ray, but it's very clear what he's saying is happening there and that the U.S. is funding. How likely is there to be some international reaction? It's interesting. The Israelis have slaughtered 33,000 people in Gaza, mostly people of color. Now, these seven people that died were all white. One was an American, a military veteran who's devoted his life to providing aid to the oppressed by war. Ray? Judge, it's a point worth making. All of them were white. Well, there was a Palestinian interpreter, maybe six of the seven. That apparently makes a big difference. The world is up in arms.

The question is whether this will get through Joe Biden's head, that this is different. Now, the way he reacted and the way Netanyahu has reacted does not give me much hope that something sensible will be done. These pledges of changing our policy, rubbish, bollocks, as the British would say. It's not going to happen until Joe Biden realizes he's going to lose the election because of this, and he isn't there yet. So how many more people? 33,000? Well, you know, there's lots more people can be killed until Joe Biden says, no, no, no more arms starting now. Then you can explain things, but no more arms

starting now. He has the power to do that. It's all over, but he won't do it. And we have to pressure him. We have to do everything we can to say, look, Joe Biden, if you won't realize the moral aspects of this, you're going to lose the election. And maybe that will move him. Larry, here's. Can I comment? Can I comment on Jose Andres? I've known him for 16 years. Oh, please.

Remember? Yeah, we were members of the same golf club there, Avenel Potomac at Avenel Farms. So, you know, I mean, we're not friends. This must be one of those expensive clubs where Eisenhower used to play. He never played. It wasn't built when Eisenhower was president. I'm just busting you. Go ahead.

We're a mile from Congressional Country Club, if that helps. So, Andre, Jose got his, you know, he sort of became the darling of October 7th and the Israeli massacre of Palestinians, he didn't lift his voice once, not once, to say, this is outrageous.

No, no, no, no. Oh, we're feeding them. Yeah, on a contract where he's getting paid. He's not doing this for free. They may think they advertise themselves as a charity. He's making money off of it. So karma can be a tough thing. Larry, and you've stated it from your personal knowledge,

it doesn't diminish the horror of what happened, but it does explain what the interaction of this particular fellow, now forgive me, I never heard of him before the other day. He thought he could get away with it. And what makes this thing, they're pretending like this is different. Now, this was, as I said,

deliberate targeting. The drone operator wasn't sitting in his mom's basement by himself eating cheetos the drone operator sitting in an operation center with other drone operators they're they've got joysticks and they are supervised by a whole chain of command of officers starting with lieutenants captains majors lieutenant colonels and colonels, and colonels, at a minimum, at a minimum. And when the order comes to fire, it's not the drone operator who says, hey, you know, I think we ought to take some shots.

No, no, no, no, no, no. That is an order directed down. Here's my friend and former colleague, Peter Doocy, clashing with Admiral Kirby. Cut number four. The president's call, he called Chef Jose Andres to express that he's heartbroken by his new Biden. On October 7th, President Biden said, my administration's support for Israel's security is rock solid and unwavering. That is not true anymore, correct? No, it is true.

Still true today. How is his support unwavering, but you're also reconsidering policy choices? Both can be true. They cannot be true. They're completely different things. No, no, no. I'm sorry. He is wavering. No, no, no. I'm sorry. He is wavering.

No, no, no. Come on. How is he not wavering? Come on. Come on now. As I said, and as it says in that readout, we made clear, and he made it clear to the Prime Minister in his call, that our support for Israel's self-defense remains ironclad. They face a range of threats, and the United States isn't going to walk away from helping Israel defend itself.

That said, you can say all that and you can act on that and you can believe that, and the president does, and still believe that the manner in which they're defending themselves against the Hamas threat needs to change. And that is the conversation that we had today. But both things are true. Our support is ironclad and consistent. It's not going to stop. It's not going to waver.

But will there perhaps be some policy changes we might have to make if we don't see policy changes out of Israel? Yes. Times when I was on the bench and a criminal case would come in the courtroom, everybody knew the evidence of guilt? Yes. Times when I was on the bench and a criminal case would come in the courtroom, everybody knew the evidence of guilt was overwhelming, and I'd have some respect for the defense lawyer

defending the indefensible. Somehow I have no respect for Admiral Kirby, none whatsoever. This is worse than Donald Rumsfeld's known unknowns to attempt to suggest that the policy won't change, but we're thinking about doing something different. The president of the United States sent those 2,000 pound bombs. The secretary of state certified it was necessary for American national security and was an emergency. There wasn't time to go to Congress. And he supposedly had an argument

with Netanyahu over these seven white people that were killed. Sickening. Judge, I was a charter member of the Bronx River Beach Club, okay? And we had sleazers like Kirby by the hundreds as our members. Now, I say that unjust, but I know the Kirbys of this world. They don't know the difference between truth and falsity, and that's their job, for God's sake. Obfuscate, obfuscate, obfuscate. You have people on Fox that say, you know, there are alternative truths. And, you know, it just got to the point where people listen to this stuff, they're a nerd to it, and unless they tune in to Judging Freedom or other places where they get the real story, they're completely at sea. And, you know, that's a bad position to have most of the American people in, because how are they going to understand what Biden should do now, however obvious it is to us?

Larry, I guess this is just going to get worse and worse. They can kill 33,000 people of color, and then six white people, and there's more of an outrage about the six white people than they'll go right back to doing the same thing, like colonel wilkerson said he saw with the people trying to get food that they hadn't had in weeks and they were cut down by automatic fire i don't know how this i don't know how this ends larry well it's it's it's gonna ultimately i think israel is going to implode because they're now going to fight Hezbollah. And when they do that, they're going to lose. And they will be desperate to get America involved.

And the irony here is, despite this stalwart support of the Biden administration and continuing to send him arms ammunition, because it's an election year, political domestic political chaos here in the united states it'll end up that israel is going to find itself i think more on its own and in the face of that uh i think i think hezbollah with they're going to have significant additional assistance from iran uh israel is going to get crushed and it's going to be something that hasn't happened in history at least in modern history and it's going to be something that hasn't happened in history, at least in modern history. And it's going to be a real shock. Ray, we have friends.

The three of us have friends. Colleen Rowley, former FBI agent and lawyer. Matt Ho, a dear friend of ours and a colleague on the show, Medea Benjamin, who's been on the show, who are on their way or about to go to the Middle East. What are they doing? Judge, it's called the Gaza Flotilla to Break Israel's Siege. People are starving to death in Gaza. That's well known. Starvation is part of genocide. These patriotic Americans, who will not abide this in the name of our country, have joined an international flotilla, leaving or sailing from Turkey within the next couple of weeks to deliver food and other aid packages to Gaza. We'll have to see what happens because some of them are Americans,

some of them like Colleen Rowley, a person of impeccable credentials, having served as legal counsel to the FBI and having exposed the, what's the word, the sleaze, the kind of lawyers that headed the FBI during the time she was there. First and foremost, a fellow named Robert Mueller, who has since been beatified and actually now canonized by the mainstream press. Larry, I hate even to raise this, but I have to ask you, are their lives in danger? Each three are friends of ours. Are their lives in danger? I would have said yes last week. I'd say no this week, simply because the hell Israel is deservedly catching for the murder of these seven WCK workers. And again, they've gotten away with it for six months. From the two elderly women who were killed at the church, one woman trying to help her mother to the bathroom, to the three Israeli hostages who got free of Hamas, were shot and killed by the Israeli army. And then the hospitals bombed.

Here's a statistic for you. There are, on average, 20 journalists a month killed in this conflict in Gaza and Israel. And the Ukraine war. They're not killed by Hamas. They're killed by the IDF. Yeah, by the IDF. And in Ukraine, the number of journalists killed by both either Russia and or Ukraine has been one a year, roughly. So we're going from 20 a month to one a year.

That shows you the level of brutality and carelessness by Israel. Ray? I would just add that every day, 90, nine zero children are killed in Gaza. 90. And so when you take the measure of that, you have to see why these very brave people are getting on this boat and taking personal risk. I hope Larry's right. I rather think he is, as usual. The heat can be off a little bit.

I hate to. usual. The hate can be off a little bit. Professor Mearsheimer told us yesterday 194 aid workers murdered. That number is close to the number of journalists. Actually, it's a little higher. It's actually 224 today at the UN's

Security Council. 224. Wow, so it's gone up. Yeah. 30 since Professor Mearsheimer told us this yesterday. All right, guys, it's Friday afternoon in the East Coast. Spring is coming here this weekend. This stuff is so gloomy, but we must discuss it. Thank you. You know I love you, but I have to say it.

Thank you very much for all you do, and thank you for your time and your courage and your sources and your intellect. We'll see you both Monday morning and we'll do this again next week. Thank you, gentlemen. All the best. God love you. Thank you, Jim. a week in which all of our regulars have been on with you. We'll do our best to bring them to you yet again next week. Have a nice weekend, everybody. Of course, everything's posted. You can continue to watch. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thanks for watching!