Judging Freedom - INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern: Slaughter in Gaza; Life Support in Kiev

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern: Slaughter in Gaza; Life Support in KievSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, February 9th, 2024. It's the end of the day. It's the end of the week. You know what that means. It's the roundtable with Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern. Larry and Ray, my dear friends, always a pleasure. Welcome back. Thank you for your double duty as always. I want to talk to you about the latest in Gaza and some of the reprehensible things Prime Minister Netanyahu has said. I want to talk to you about the butcher of Bakhmut and whether he is a worthy replacement of General Zelensky in Ukraine. But the hot topic today is, of course, the Tucker Carlson interview of President Putin, which I watched and which captivated me. So let me start with big picture,

Larry. Tucker has been called a useful idiot by Mrs. Clinton, Hanoi Jane by Matt Van Dyke. I doubt that Tucker's ever heard of him. And Bill Kristol has said the U.S. government should not let Tucker back into the country. In my opinion, what he did was courageous, brilliant, and a positive step forward in diplomacy that the United States of America isn't even engaging in. What's your thought? Well, if we're going to punish Tucker for that, let's get George Stephanopoulos, Andrea Mitchell, Chris Wallace. I mean, we've got a whole host of U.S. correspondents that have interviewed Vladimir Putin. So if interviewing Vladimir Putin is the sin, let's round them all up, ship them off to Guantanamo and put them in orange hoods and in orange jumpsuits.

I mean, it's ridiculous. Look, the West doesn't know what to do about this. Tucker's viewers right now on just X Twitter alone approaching 150 million. I tell you what, every member of MSNBC, CNN, Fox, they would sacrifice their firstborn to get ratings like that. Hell, you put them all together combined. Tucker's drawing at least eight to nine times the size of audience. So that's number one. Number two, the other big picture was you watched Vladimir Putin, the body language.

He did the intelligence officer thing. You noticed he was sitting back, arms open, legs apart. You know, he was very relaxed, coat open. So and then watch what Tucker, Tucker ends up mimicking that body because that's what that's an intel technique that how you can sit across from somebody and how you hold yourself will help shape the other person. But what Vladimir Putin was communicating with that was very relaxed, didn't feel at all a threat and was having a normal conversation. Ray. I agree with Larry. a threat and was having a normal conversation. Ray? I agree with Larry. I think it was a benchmark sort of on the par of Julian Assange inventing an instantaneous way to get truth up into the ether and down into computers.

Now, I suppose that the internet can fool around with, or the powers that be can fool around with Tucker's ability to communicate with us, but it didn't succeed last night. What we saw was a very confident person who is spewing a lot of history, which I can affirm. I used to teach medieval or Russian history, right? The Kievan Rus, that's really interesting. What he didn't mention is that Russia, the Slavs had no written language until the 8th century, okay? So what's the point here? Russia has always lagged behind the West, even lagged behind the East in terms of being able to write down. They're incredibly good epic poetry and everything else, and they're church things.

So they've been playing catch-up ball, but guess what? Now they've all caught up. Now, one thing I'd say is that when Putin explained how the ABM business and the talks with the U.S., that they tried to get the U.S. to stop and they wouldn't stop, he said that all before. He said that in a meeting with Western correspondents. When was it? It was in 2016 during the International Economic Forum in Petersburg. What happened? Nobody reported it. How do I know about it? Somebody took a little clip and we translated it. And I've used that, but nobody pays attention to me, of course.

But it's the same, same story and the same valid story. Last thing here. Why do we have Putin fact-checked? We ought to fact-check him on all these. Not only the history about Kiev and Rus', but all about, you know, was there really an agreement to stop this thing six weeks after it started? Well, apparently so, because Zelensky's right-hand man was one of the negotiators, and he spilled the whole beans. Now, Putin told that story.

I was always wondering myself why Putin didn't tell that story a year and a half ago. It was better to wait until the Ukrainian negotiators themselves came back and said, this is the way it went down. We were all set to stop this damn thing. And the US and UK came in and said, no, no, no, we'll support you for as long as it takes. All right, guys, we're going to play the clip about the negotiated settlement and how it was aborted. It is preceded by Tucker's, in my view, very courageous question, would you ever invade or would you ever send troops to Poland? The answer is right on the mark. You heard it

last night, but you'll hear it again. And then President Putin segues into, by the way, we had a negotiated settlement. It was this thick. It was that detailed until Boris Johnson interfered. T1, Chris. Can you imagine a scenario where you sent Russian troops to Poland? Can you imagine a scenario where you sent Russian troops to Poland? Only in one case, if Poland attacks Russia. Why? Because we have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else. Why would we do that?

We simply don't have any interest. It's just threat mongering. So I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what you're saying. I don't think that I am. I think you're saying you want a negotiated settlement to what's happening in Ukraine right and we made it we prepared the huge document in Istanbul that was initialed by the head of the Ukrainian delegation he affixed his signature to some of the provisions, not to all of it. He put his signature and then he himself said,

we were ready to sign it and the war would have been over long ago, 18 months ago. However, Prime Minister Johnson came, talked us out of it and we missed that chance. So, Larry, this is the agreement that Bill O'Reilly said. Well, you don't know that it happened. Of course, we now know that it happened. The Ukrainian negotiators have talked about it. The president of Russia has talked about it. It's been reported in so many media.

Nobody has denied it. I thought that was a great answer about him invading the circumstances, the sole circumstance under which he would send troops to Poland. It utterly defies Joe Biden, who has said many times, if Putin takes Ukraine, a presumption that is not based in fact that Putin wants to take Ukraine, nothing will stop him from going into Poland. Larry, take it from there. Well, yeah, Putin, I think one of the most important things that came out of it was his going over the history of the US and European rejection of Russia's numerous entreaties to become part of the West, to have a productive, positive, commercial,

and diplomatic relationship with the West. And their only request was, don't push NATO to the east, or let us become part of NATO. And that was what was really fascinating when he talked about his conversation with Bill Clinton, and Clinton's initial reaction was, well, all right, maybe. And then Clinton comes back later and says, no, no, can't do it. Well, so it lets you know that the presidents, including George W. Bush and Clinton, they're not running the show.

Also, what was fascinating, he talked specifically about Donald Trump. He talked specifically about George W. Bush. Didn't say a word about Barack Obama, who was there for eight years and was part of the problem in terms of, you know, attacking, basically helping launch some of the attacks that Putin sees has been directed against Russia. So pretty insightful. Certainly launched the Maidan coup in 2014. Ray? Yeah, I just want to mention that when Larry says that the president is not running the show, this was pretty much what Putin said last night several times. Now, this was one concrete example.

He says to Bill Clinton, hey, we'd like to, how about meeting us at the NATO? And Bill says, huh, would you come? Well, let's work it out. We can get a rapprochement, okay? Then what does Putin say? Well, Bill Clinton work it out. We can get a rapprochement. Okay. Then what does Putin say? Well, Bill Clinton checked with his team. Okay.

His team. No, no, no. That's impossible. What does that remind me of? That reminds me of Ronald Reagan in Reykjavik. And Gennady Vyacheslav said, Mr. President, we have a degree of trust now. Why don't we eliminate all nuclear weapons? And Ronald Reagan said, wow, let me check with my team.

I know who is on that team. I was in Washington backing up those talks. Guys like Fritz Ehrmuth at the NSC and others who now work with Raytheon and other contractors say, no, no, no. Then, Mr. President, you can't have your national defense system. You can't have Star Wars in the sky. You won't be able to protect the United States without building an ABM system. And Reagan went back and he said, I don't know exactly what he said, but he said the equivalent. Kind of good to me, but my team says, no, we can't do that. So it's the same thing.

Who's the team? We call it the deep state, the national security state. They're still running the show. They ran the show when Trump was in. They didn't let him do anything which was constructive with respect to the Soviet Union. So that was one of the real takeaways here. My team, well, we don't know. Putin knows who's running the show.

Putin is clearly the head of his team, Larry and Ray. Here's Tucker asking him, would you talk to Joe Biden? This is fascinating. T2, Chris. And so why don't you just call Biden and say, let's work this out? What's there to work out? It's very simple. I repeat, we have contacts through various agencies. I will tell you what we are saying on this matter and what we are conveying to the US leadership. If you really want to stop fighting, you need to stop supplying weapons. It will be over within a few weeks.

That's it. And then we can agree on some terms. Before you do that, stop. What's easier? Why would I call him? What should I talk to him about? Or beg him for what? What messages do you get back? You're going to deliver such and such weapons to Ukraine?

Oh, I'm afraid, I'm afraid, please don't. What is there to talk about? Do you think, Larry, this type of candor from the President of Russia resonates with the neocons in the State Department, or do you think that they are so blinded by their ideology that it doesn't? Or am I overgeneralizing here? Yeah, no, Putin would be having more success if he is talking to a group of penguins. They would at least be more responsive to him. It just goes over their heads.

They're not listening. In fact, what's fascinating is none of the cable channels, in terms of their websites, report anything directly out of this interview as far as about Putin and Tucker, what was said, what the implications are. None of them. They're ignoring it. But they do provide sort of an offhand comment on Tucker's request to get the Wall Street Journal reporter released.

So as far as the mainstream media goes, they don't want to have anything to do with conveying what Putin had to say to the American people. It's only those who are going to take time to get on the internet and to watch the video. And I think there are a substantial number. I know like my wife, who normally stays away from this kind of stuff, she sat down and watched it straight through. And so I think there were others like her. But as far as persuading the neocons to back off, they're just going to continue to double down until they drive into the wall

and the car catches on fire. Ray, how do you think he came across to the American public as the enemy, the killer that Joe Biden says he is, or as a person with a lot more intellect and ability to communicate than the President of the United States has? Well, Judge, as you know, comparisons are invidious. Yes. They were particularly invidious last night.

This was the very day, two hours after President Biden got up to defend himself for possessing classified information. And they didn't even realize that the real damning thing in that Justice Department formal memorandum didn't have to do with his keeping classified information, had to do with his cognitive abilities. Let me quote one sentence, okay? Department of Justice, quote, Biden, Mr. Biden has diminished faculties in advancing age. This plus his sympathetic demeanor explain, end quote, explain, excuse him for revealing to a ghostwriter classified information,

including human intelligence sources. The highest protected data you guys have ever dealt with, right? Really, really noxious. How is anybody going to recruit an agent now if he finds out that

the president keeps these notebooks and then he's going to give it to his biographer or his ghostwriter? I mean, this kills the ability for a clandestine case officer to go out there and say, well, no, we can protect you. We won't tell anybody who you are. Paul Jay Switching gears a little bit, does it matter which general is in charge of the totally depleted Ukrainian army? Larry, is it significant that President Zelensky has fired General Zelensky and hired General, I forget his name, the butcher of Bakhmut? Yeah.

His own troops give him. Yeah, this is a disaster for Ukraine. And notice what happened. Zelensky had been trying to get rid of Zeluzhny for more than almost two weeks. And when the announcement came down at 8 p.m. Kiev time, so they waited until it was dark and all the local main news broadcasts were over before they said, oh, he's gone. I think the only reason they were able to say he was gone is that Sersky finally agreed to take the job. But as you correctly note, Sersky is wildly unpopular with

the soldiers because his reputation is for getting soldiers killed in meaningless battles. And what's really curious about this is they're trying to make Zelensky, Zelensky, or Zeluzhny the scapegoat. Yet it's Zelensky who claims that he's been in charge of the military operation. That Zelensky himself was the one who overruled Zeluzhny, General Zeluzhny, for withdrawing troops from Bakhmut. And now recently, General Zaluzhny wanted to withdraw troops from Avdiivka. And it's apparently been overridden by Zelensky, and yet Zelensky dumps him. So Zaluzhny is close with and supported by former President Poroshenko and by the current mayor of Kiev, Klitschko,

the former boxer, mixed martial artist. So the problem Zelensky's got is he got rid of the guy who's more popular than he is, and that was really his principal motive. He feared being overthrown. We saw it today. People already started to assemble in Maidan Square to protest Zelensky's removal. I think ultimately the time is ticking down. We can start the betting pool. Who goes first, Joe Biden or Zelensky? Ray, does the CIA have a role in this? Do they know this is happening? Do they influence this choice?

Did Nick Sullivan know that it was going to be the butcher of Bakhmut before the announcement was made? Tell us about the role of CIA in this. Well, one person that hasn't been mentioned yet is Victoria Nulansky. Now, Victoria... That's not really her name. Nulansky came in Wednesday. Now, this is really simple to understand. Monday, Zelensky says to Zelensky, you're fired. Zelensky says, F you, okay? Wednesday, Nulansky comes into Kiev and says,

you got to fire this guy because you're our guy, not Zelensky. He's too popular. You will do what we say, so fire him. It takes Zelensky two more days to say, okay, Zelensky, Victoria says, Nulansky says, you're fired. And then he's fired. Now, Larry is right. This is a very precarious situation because there are no more troops to fight this war.

And Siersky, what's he going to do? Well, it depends on whether they decide to work with Sierski or whether they decide, they being Dolinsky and Jake Sullivan, work with Sierski or they work with Solushny. It's winding down. They picked their people, and that's how it will all end, but it won't end for a couple months yet. And Joe Biden still wants $61 billion from the Congress, Larry. What the hell would they do with it besides steal it or, I guess, use it to operate the government, pay the civil servants? Go out and hire some more mercenaries.

That was one of the other revelations out of Putin that I was – first time I've heard it. He indicated that the number one provider of mercenaries is Poland. Number two, the United States, like your friend there, Matt Van Dyke. And then number three are the people from Georgia. Now, go back three weeks ago when the Russians hit that hotel with all those French mercenaries. There were a lot of Frenchmen there. So that tells you how big some of this foreign fighter contingent is. And they're going to get killed. That's the simple answer. Remember, Putin said he didn't view having those mercenaries in as it causes Bel-I to go to war with the West, but he said if Western troops do come in under military command, then you're looking at a nuclear war. Back to Tucker, and just to lighten things up at the end of a long week for the

three of us, here is the former Secretary of State of the United States of America expressing her opinion of Tucker Carlson. What does that tell you about Tucker Carlson and right-wing media and also Vladimir Putin? Well, it shows me what I think we've all known. He's what's called a useful idiot. I mean, if you actually read translations of what's being said on Russian media, they make fun of him.

I mean, he's like a puppy dog. You know, he somehow has, after having been fired from so many outlets in the United States, he, I would not be surprised if he emerges with a contract with a Russian outlet. Not very Secretary of State-like, Mr. Johnson. You? Actually, let's get right to it. Yeah, I just want to update people.

At Columbia University, where she is a distinguished professor now, she was interrupted during the whole length of her attempted spiel by people saying ceasefire now, ceasefire now, ceasefire now. So this is a sign that Americans are waking up. Cease fire now. Cease fire now. So what's this? This is a sign that Americans are waking up. And, you know, for her to make those fatuous remarks, it's not true. Russian media are not making fun of Tucker Carlson. They're making fun of her.

Yeah. Well, in fact, on top of that here, Tucker had the number one rated show on Fox. In fact, in all of cable news, number one. It took over Bill O'Reilly's position. And Hillary couldn't get the number one slot. She's a failure. Plus, why doesn't she offer to send back the half a million dollars that Bill Clinton collected when he went over to make his speech? I mean, if they're so opposed to all things Russian,

they get that damn Russian money out of the Clinton Foundation, by God. But she's not going to give that up. That means she'll actually have to start buying boxed wine instead of that high end Chardonnay. I'd love you guys. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming this late on a Friday afternoon. We'll see you both at your usual slots on Monday. All the best. All right. Good weekend, Judge. Thank you. And to you as well. And to all of you, thank you for watching. ...week from our perspective. All of our regulars will be here for you next week. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.