Judging Freedom - INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern : Weekly Wrap 5-June

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern : Weekly Wrap 5-JuneSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Pragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? Jefferson was right? What if that government is best, which governs least? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish fighting for

freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Friday, June 5th, 2006. It's the end of the day, the end of the week, our favorite time, our favorite airing of the Intelligence Community Roundtable with my two longtime friends and collaborators, Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson. Guys, welcome here and thank you for all the extra time this week, Larry, Triple Duty for you. Larry, let me start with you. Of course, I have to go to Iran and Nukes. What new information do you have since we discussed this late? two days ago.

Well, the Pakistanis continue, and let me emphasize, the information I put out was from a Pakistani source. So I'm not saying that they're absolutely correct. But it was a credible person when both Pepe and I were able to validate the person's access. But there's still, you know, the Pakistanis are optimistic, but you're hearing different things. The Iranians have just said, hey, we're still waiting to hear from Trump. Trump going to do. And there are indications in Israel right now that they're gearing up for an

attack. So, you know, we're not, I don't think we're anywhere near out of the woods, despite, you know, the optimism that the Pakistanis are expressing. Now, reportedly, Whitkoff and Kushner are back in the talks and they are reportedly dealing with the Iranian officials receive the Pakistanis. So, you know, I don't know if this is another one of Trump's, marketplace where, hey, it's Friday, man, we are on the verge of greatness. So get out there and let's oil that price of oil and raise the price of the stock market. You know, so I remain cynical and skeptical. But you did break news by reporting what a credible source told you.

You didn't verify the accuracy of it. You only verified that he did say this or she did say this. and the person is credible and in a position to know. But not only that, Robert Barnes then verified that it was true via his White House sources. Correct. Robert will be on with us next week. You're right. He did say that.

And then on top of that, we have seen a dramatic 180 degree in Donald Trump's, his social media posts, and what he's saying in public about Iran. I mean, you know, three weeks ago he's calling Moshava Khomeini a homosexual and threatening to obliterate civilization. Now he's saying, hey, I look forward to meeting with the guy. And you're going, okay, what's going on? And apparently, according to Robert, it was that warning that was passed to the United States vis-a-vis the Pakistani foreign minister, came from the prime minister to the foreign minister, that the United States took it seriously. So, you know, that's that.

We have a great cut. I'm going to go to Ray first. We have a great cut from the military advisor to the Supreme Leader. Pretty critical of the United States. But before we go there, Ray, our mutual friend whom we love very much, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, says that Pakistanis offered a deliverable nuclear weapon to the Iranians. Does that make sense to you? I'd have to know more about the source, Judge. Sources are all important if you have confidence in them and if it makes sense. Now, the Pakistanis are supposed to have offered the Saudis this kind of protection way back when. I just don't know.

It's hard for me. Larry is well plugged in. I would say that he's worth the benefit of the doubt on this one. All right. I'm going to ask the two of you of negotiators are still ongoing. but here is motion Rezai, R-E-Z-A-E-I, the military advisor

to the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamini. This is from CNN. It was just released in the past hour. Chris, cut number one. President Trump said that he would be honored to meet the Supreme Leader. This will not happen. Right now, we,

we are in the first stage of negotiations, and Mr. Trump has brought the negotiations to a standstill. This will not happen. Are the negotiations right now blocked, or do you think that a memorandum of understanding can be reached quickly? In my opinion, the negotiations are at a deadlock, and Trump must break this deadlock. They are waiting for an answer from Iran. Iran has openly stated that our assets have been frozen, and you must release them. The Americans are not telling the truth in this regard. So the frozen assets are the big problem right now?

This is a sign of trust building. If Trump takes the negotiation seriously, $24 billion is not much to America. If he wants to reach an agreement with Iran, this $24 billion is a test of trust that Iran wants to have with Trump. This is a test that America must pass, and the path will be opened. This is our own money, not America's money. It is true that it is their money and not America's money, but Larry, have they added a demand to a memorandum of understanding leading to a ceasefire,

or was this always something they were demanding? This was always there, and I'm going to quote Ray McGovern. Listen to what they say because they mean what they say. So it's not complicated, you know, this isn't trying to turn. analysis into algebraic and calculus equations. Listen to what they say. He's very direct, Ray. There's no question about that.

Ray. Pardon? I said he's very direct. There's no question about that, but he's saying the negotiations are out of Stanfield. The U.S. claims that the two real estate agents are back in the thick of things, and he says they're out of standstill until America agrees. to release the 24 billion it must be in american banks well it takes two to tango and if he says

they're at a standstill he says they're blocked uh they're blocked um now it's an interesting wrinkle uh that he would be emphasizing this particular aspect of their of their uh blockage but you know each day they have a different kind of thing to emphasize and of course the straight of harmosis the big deal and there's been no perceptible improvement in relations on or in ties or in negotiations on that. That's the biggie. These things are also important, but they're on the edges. It's funny that you should mention that because the general mentioned it as well. Chris cut number two.

If the war continues and the naval blockade is not lifted, we will drag the war to the Indian Ocean, the Babel Manda straight, the Red Sea, and the Mediterranean, and we will give another dimension to the war by attacking these other American bases that we have been attacking so far. America will definitely suffer much more losses. America's losses will be very heavy. Is that credible? Oh yeah? Yes, it is. Wow. This is a different position for a while now. They were the ones that said no more negotiations until we see some reason to trust you people. And trust is completely absent.

And so with the absence of trust, one can understand why the Iranians are thinking that they have the upper hand here. They have the straight. It's not poker. They have the street of Hormuz, and that's the big deal. So this morning,

I asked our friend and colleague, Professor Sachs, if Netanyahu is in a position to wreck a U.S.-Iran peace deal. Jeff believes, I hope it's not wishful thinking, but I believe he's intellectually honest, that if Trump wants a peace deal and Netanyahu tries to wreck it, Trump will lower the boom on Netanyahu. Larry? Yeah, Trump has the ability to lower the boom. He has the leverage to lower the boom.

Now, the question is, does he have the spine, the backbone? That I don't know. He's resibled more of a jellyfish of light, and has been very subservient and responsive to his Zionist donors, particularly Mrs. Adelson and Paul Singer among two. This, you know, look, this, all I can note is, in the last 36 hours, we've had a lot of quiet. You know, in the preceding days like Monday, we're actually going to last week.

So the reason this whole, you know, that report about Iran threatening to detonate a nuke got spun up was because the United States was initiating attacks. They bombedo al-Bah support. They blew up two small naval craft, the speedboats, they're killing four sailors. They hit targets on Keshim Island. And so it was out of that. that the Iranians were, you know, they were outraged. And then they started hitting back.

And so the last big dust up we had was, I think it was Wednesday, at least Wednesday morning in Iran time. And where the United States, again, initiated, they hit an Iranian tanker with a hellfire missile fired by a U.S. helicopter that flew out of Kuwait. And then they blew up communications tower on Keshem Island. The Iranians immediately retaliated, firing a missile at another at a U.S. ship reportedly hitting it, and then they attacked both a U.S. airfield or an airfield

where U.S. assets are stationed and a military base with a combination of missiles and drones, and were successful. They wiped out a storage center for drones on one of the bases. And I thought, okay, here we go. And then since in the aftermath of that attack, Donald didn't say one word. He didn't. Normally he would have come back out with a lot of trash talk and threats, et cetera.

Not one word. And fortunately, in the last, despite a report that Iran fired at two U.S. ships that tried to enter the Strait of Hormuz, didn't hit him. It was sent his warning shots. We haven't had any other back and forth so far today, knock on wood. So that tells me that there is something to the negotiations. that are underway that I think the good general may not have been privy to, but he was correct in laying out the points that are important for Iran. But this unnatural quiet, and I hope it continues,

could signal that they are in actual discussions. I'm going to play a clip from the general on Israel, but before we do, Ray, we know, before I do, we know that President Trump has painted himself into a corner. He can't find an off-ramp. The American public finds this deeply unpopular, the war. It's about to be the vacation season and millions of families will be driving in their cars and paying twice to fill up the cars what they paid last summer,

and then they're going to come home and vote. Well, he's got to do something. Has Netanyahu also backed himself into a corner? Can he agree to a ceasefire? What will he do if Trump decides to stop the fighting? I would suggest that there are different corners that they back themselves into. For Netanyahu, it's an existential thing, not only for Israel, but for Netanyahu and his wife personally. They're going to end up in jail if this thing goes down.

For Trump, well, you know, this Hamlet-like apologies to, William Shakespeare. Like, you know, maybe I'll do this or maybe I'll do that. That, in my view, reflects nothing more than his inability to face up to the fact that this was a really bad decision. And he's still listening to Rubio and those people. And so how is he going to come out? Well, I don't know.

I didn't watch what Jeff Sachs said. I suggested that he's probably more. hopeful than I am, he probably said, well, it could finally be the final straw if Trump decided he could do this. But then I would enter again this extraneous factor. It's called Epstein. And I think it's a real factor. And I think Bibi, I don't, Netanyahu has things that, not only on Trump, but perhaps Trump's wife that are coming into play here, making it even more trouble for Hamlet to make a decision. Just as an aside before I play the general, the House Oversight Committee about two hours ago released the 111-page transcript of their attempt. Attempts to interrogate former Attorney General Pam Bondi.

She refused to answer any questions about what she saw in the Epstein files involving President Trump refused to answer. Of course, they threatened her with contempt. I don't know where that's going to go, but she refused to answer. Here's the general about Trump must make decisions independently of Israel. Chris number three. Mr. Trump must make decisions independently of Israel. He must give what is the rights of the Iranian people and stop the blockade, release our frozen assets, and this can be a new horizon for the future of Iran and America.

Therefore, Trump must put aside his personal interest. and think about the interests of the American people. If Trump has the courage, many issues will be resolved in the future. Yeah. He's right, Larry. Oh, yeah. Listen, Iran has thought this thing through fairly clearly. But we are seeing something historic, Judge.

Never in the history since the creation of Iran, 47 years ago, has the Iranian stepped up and said, if you're going to end this war, it's got to stop in Lebanon and Palestine as well. We've not had any other country in history, in modern history, that stood up and made such a bold, direct statement, linking their own security to that of the people of Lebanon and the Palestinians. And so that, I think that has started to resonate. We saw a little bit of that with the Saudis, where the, you know, the Trump and administration was pushing them to sign back on to the Abraham Accord. They said, we're not doing any Abraham Accord until the Palestinians have a state. But as Ray just pointed out,

if Netanyahu went along with that, if Netanyahu withdrew his troops from Lebanon and his occupation of Gaza, he'd be out of a job and probably out of his freedom. Sure. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, and let's take the focus off of Netanyahu. If Netanyahu goes, there's still a majority of Israelis that want to be in, Lebanon and want to be in Palestine. So I mean, Netanyahu's not the problem, but it's Ben-Gavir and Smotrich will learn the lesson that I learned at the age of 18 when my father and I had a dispute over the length of my hair and he said, get your hair cut or get out. I got out. And you know, getting out, you discover, hell, I got to get a job and I've got to work to make some

money and I don't have somebody paying my bills now. And I have to become self-sufficient. Let Israel become self-sufficient. Let's see how that works. Because if Trump has the wherewithal, just say, okay, fine, you want to go on your own, be on your own, but not with our money, not with our weapons, not with our aircraft, not with our intelligence. Good luck. Have a nice day. That would be a sobering moment for the Zionists, not just BB Netanyahu, but the Zionists. Did you go back? Did you cut your hair? No. You know me. I have to tell you, every once in a while, one of the chatters will say, can you ask Larry to turn around?

Does he have a ponytail? No, Larry does not have a ponytail. Apparently, you had one at one point, but no. Yeah, no, but my father and I reconciled, but also, I just, I didn't surrender. But it was an important lesson. Hey, you want to be on your own? You want to be independent and be independent, but you know what? You got to get that, got to work and got to do a lot of other things.

So it gets your own needs to grow up. I want to jump to Ukraine. Ray, are the Russians weary of war, the Russian people? And if they are, is this a problem for President Putin? Everyone's weary as they enter the fifth year of this kind of war. The way Putin has played it has been very clever. He's damped down the worry. by damping down casualties.

The Russian people are living quite comfortably. Most of them have had races and are living okay. So it's an exaggeration to say there's a lot of pressure to end it. Nevertheless, he's going to end it. And as he says, he's going to end it soon, and it's going to be this year. Why do I say that? Because nobody mentions that, contrary to all the Western journalists reports, the Russians are moving slowly.

They're a tritting, a tritting, a tritting. They only have three major cities left to take in Tanyetsk, and then it will be a free reign, a free run to the Dnieper River. So Russia is winning. Yeah, they can tolerate these drone tax, pinpricks. They still are. And I think that Putin's performance yesterday, it was an incredible thing, what, two hours,

before journalists, not only Western journalists this time, exuded the kind of confidence and the kind of drive and the kind of humor. When he was asked, what about the disaster that is going to befall the Russian economy? He said, well, I think it was Mark Twain. Yes, Mark Twain who said reports of my death have been largely exaggerated, and that goes for the Russian economy's death too. I'm going to play a clip now, as you both may know, and this is insane that he would do this.

Zelensky published a letter taunting President Putin. Chris, do you have that headline? There it is. Zelensky mixes taunts and peace talks in offer in letter to Putin. Here is President Putin at the, St. Petersburg Economic Forum asked about the letter, Chris. So we shouldn't be addressing the authors of this letter, the ones to be addressed, our combatants, our soldiers at the line of contact, and I'm addressing them.

And I would like to tell them, comrades, soldiers, and seamen sailors, admirals, generals, officers, the country's gays are fixed upon you. The country is proud of you and places its hopes on you. Keep working brothers. So I'll take that as a no, that you're not going to meet the author of the letter. So far, I see no point. He is so careful in choosing his words. But Larry, whatever happened to the massive response, military response we were expecting on account of the Ukrainians attacking the girls' school and killing 25 school girls?

Well, actually, they have been. It's a fairly very significant missile strikes and a large number of hypersonic missiles not usually used. In fact, the other day, a report that they hit an SBU headquarters killing 30 Ukrainian intelligence. intelligence officers and killing seven CIA officers. That was the report from the scene. Now, it hadn't been validated by the U.S. But I think that, and I'll defer to Ray on this, but I'm pretty sure the language that Putin used keep working brothers,

that's an important phrase. That has historical significance. It's not just an offhand expression. Am I correct, Ray? Yes, I believe you are, Larry. Bratia. That's used in a kind of an endearing way, but in a very patriotic way, because it was the Bratia that won in what they call the great patriotic war.

Wow. So Chris has been scrambling to find a photo of Larry Johnson with a ponytail and he can't find one. I never had. Actually, believe it or not, my hair was shorter than it is now. that time. Well, but he did find a very interesting photo of Ray McGovern. Uh-oh. I mean,

were you undercover then, or what? No, that was a sign of solidarity with Julian Assange, a good friend of mine. I don't know if you remember when he was carted out of the

Ecuadorian University of CNN. He looked awful. And so I told him and his brother that I would not cut my hair until he was free. Actually, I was prevailed upon to cut my hair when I had open heart surgery. Let's the lice get in there. But it was for two and a half years. I was trying to give an example to my grandchildren, and they don't even remember when grandpa.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for another great conversation. What a fabulous picture. You look very happy there, Professor McGovern. Just put 80 pounds on him. He could be Santa Claus. Gentlemen, we'll see you both at your usual times on Monday. Have a great weekend. Thank you.

All right, Judge, thanks. Good, too. And, of course, coming up on Monday, Alster Crook, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, and maybe a surprise from Russia, where two of our dear friends and regular guests are there, and if Chris can find them, they'll be on together. I won't tell you who, but you'll probably. probably no judge the palatana for judging freedom