Judging Freedom - INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern: Weekly Wrap Up

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern: Weekly Wrap UpSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, December 20th, 2024. It's the end of the week. It's the end of the day. It's our favorite time. It's the Intelligence Community Roundtable with my two longtime friends and collaborators, Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern, doing their double duty this week as usual. Larry and Ray, welcome here. We have a lot to go through, a lot of unexpected events this week. Larry, I will start with you because you've written about this as recently as yesterday. The assassination of General Kirillov, was there any conceivable military benefit to the Ukrainians to murdering him? And do we know who was behind it? Not who planted the bomb, but who set it up? Yeah, zero military advantage.

Doesn't change a single thing tactically or strategically for Ukraine, other than enraging the Russians even more, if that's even possible for them to be more angry. As far as the recruitment process, I think this individual is from Uzbekistan, reportedly was part of an ISIS-related group, which means an Islamic extremist group. So it really, it shows that the Ukrainian intelligence service and or Western intelligence services, either the United States or MI6,

were in touch with that group that this individual, Kurdunov, I think is his name, was a part of. Because he didn't just read something on Craigslist saying, hey, we're looking for a bomber to blow up a high-ranking Russian general, $100,000 and a passport to Europe. In fact, the very fact that a passport to Europe was in the offing really points to an MI6 involvement because it's only a European government that can issue a passport to get you into the EU. Ukraine doesn't have that wherewithal. So what this shows is that this was, in my view,

coordinated both between the Ukrainian intelligence, British intelligence, and they selected an individual who was, you know, they said, oh, he's not that intelligent, he's not that smart. Nonsense. This man had to have had training with explosives. He had to have some training with how to set up a remote camera.

He had to have training with explosives. He had to have some training with how to set up a remote camera. He had to have training with comms, how to communicate to the handlers who were going to detonate a remote-controlled bomb. He had to have training on how to place that bomb on board that scooter in such a way that it was unobtrusive, and then to plant the scooter in a way that nobody would bother with. So this was not some wild-eyed Muslim maniac who just was putting a jihad on for Allah. Wow. Ray, is it likely, it is likely that MI6 was involved. The British elites and the BBC are praising this thing.

Is it likely CIA was involved. The British elites and the BBC are praising this thing. Is it likely CIA was involved? Does the CIA do assassinations like the Mossad does? No, it's forbidden by Executive Order 12333, Judge. Actually, that is a specific prohibition against either assassinating people or participating, enabling assassination. It's impossible to know. MI6 and CIA are really joined at the hip. There's very little that one doesn't share with the other. On something as sensitive as this, however, I have to leave the possibility that CIA is just learning it at the same time as the rest of us. Wouldn't, Larry, and then we'll finish on this. Wouldn't MI6 and CIA financially and structurally? Well, it is a dependent relationship, but there's also a bit of codependency in this.

And it's not to say that Ukraine cannot go off and do some things on its own. But again, the fact that this individual says he was offered $100,000 for doing it and a passport to Europe. So the passport to Europe is the giveaway. Ukraine does not have the ability to issue passports to Europe. And I don't think this guy was just saying, oh, I'll trust these folks. I think he had to see you know show me the passport let me see my picture and let's you know verify that i've got this right in fact you know it was going to be delivered to him the the look the entire logistics of this this guy comes from uzbekistan where does he buy the scooter how does he buy the scooter is he carrying around a wad of cash does he use

a russian credit card how the how does he arm the device how does he put it on and then at some point there's got to be a communications test because this thing's going to be remotely detonated and it's going to be remotely detonated with a pretty sophisticated you've got the device with the detonator on on the explosive on the bike but you've got a camera that's also simultaneously transmitting images to people that are supposedly sitting in kiev with a remote detonator this is very sophisticated stuff so absolutely this this is more than just ukrainian sbu in my my view at a minimum mi6 and it would not surprise me that c had a hand in it as well, because

CIA has a tradition of double dealing. On the one hand, we're fighting terrorism, and on the other hand, we're arming and equipping them. Talking about it, thank you, Larry, talking about arming and equipping them, Ray, is there any question but that MI6 and CIA armed and equipped HTS and Al Jolani in Syria, even though there's a $10 million bounty on its head posted by the American government, and even though HTS has been characterized as a terrorist organization by the British and American governments? No, the answer to that is a simple no. And one wonders why that $10 million reward has not been removed from their website there at the Department of State. I wonder how long it's going to take them to take their new friend and rehabilitate him,

so to speak, by making it clear that no one's going to go after him for the $10 million reward. Is it serious to believe, Larry, that this guy is being rehabilitated, or are Christians and those not of his sect in what remains of Syria and subject to his jurisdiction in danger. Yes, to all of the above. You know, he's playing a role. Just like Zelensky and this guy are alike in so many aspects, other than he's a bigger, taller version of it. They look alike.

They were dressing alike up until last week. And I think the CIA handlers realized a lot of people are noticing that he looked like Vladimir Zelensky channeling Che Guevara. And they said, oh, no, let's go. We're going to go for something a little bit more upscale, more Wall Street. So, you know, now they got him dressed up in suit like an order grinders monkey. And he's saying all the right things and making the right signals. But, you know, that's not what he's been doing

over the last 10 years. And it was not just State Department. It was the Central Intelligence Agency and it was the Counterterrorism Center, the National Counterterrorism Center, that put this guy's outfit, with him as the lead of it, as one of the top 10 terrorist

groups for the last seven years. So, you know, that takes some work to get into that top 10. Ray, the IDF has seized, according to Ambassador Murray, Syrian land equivalent to more than three times the size of the Gaza Strip. Do you expect them to give it back? No. Now, you know, this has a history, of course. They occupied the Golan Heights during the war in 1967. And was that war provoked? No, it was not provoked.

Menachem Begin admitted in 1972, former Prime Minister of Israel, that the Egyptian forces moving up in the Sinai, they were no threat to us. We have to be honest. We have to admit that we chose that time to attack Egypt and Syria and look at the results. Well, the results were the Golan Heights all the way down to Egypt, Gaza, and the rest of the West Bank and everything else. Okay. So they admitted what they did. That was the objective. And we achieved it. it now with respect to Syria I've been up on the Golan Heights my god. It is incredible. You could see forever

You know, you could see into into Lebanon you could see into a good portion of Syria see Mount Herbiron up there. It's it's incredibly commanding Heights so that they seized them and expanded them is no surprise to anyone. I just wonder how many years it's going to take before the rest of the world says, no, that's not allowed, and it comes down hard on Israel, not only for the genocide, but for expansion that, you know, the German name is Lebensraum, okay? More room for Israel in this case rather than for Nazi Germany. Larry, is Donald Trump going to say to Bibi Netanyahu at some point,

enough is enough? Or is he salivating over the blank check that he thinks is coming his way um based upon some of the things that he said over the last week uh i think you there's still room for some surprise with trump uh i i don't he's certainly not keen on expanding the war in Ukraine. When it comes to, you know, when he had the chance to place blame on what happened to Syria, he put it all on Turkey. And, you know, the Turks and the Israelis, while they've cooperated in the initial stages of this, they're inevitably going to come into conflict because

turkey turkey feels it has more right to this land in syria than the israelis do and then the turks in the united states are going to come to blows over the kurds in the east so i mean the united states is going to have to either honor its commitment to have their back, the Kurds' back, that is, or fight the Turks. Interesting. It would be a fascinating choice. So this entire former country of Syria has turned into Yugoslavia now, when Yugoslavia broke up into various ethnic parts and ethnic regions. Is there any conceivable American national security interest, Larry, in Syria? No, no. Okay.

Switching gears to Ukraine, Ray, how much longer do you think the Ukraine military can last? Well, they can last as long as Putin allows them to last. There has been incredible attrition at a higher pace over the last couple of months. The Russians are about to take Podgorovsk, a major hub, communications and logistics hub. So it won't be long. The question is whether Putin will delay full victory until Trump comes in. I suggest he almost certainly will. He doesn't want to take over all of Ukraine, nor does he want to take over Poland and Baltic states

like Biden has accused him of doing. So there's room for some rhetorical flourishes there by Trump by saying, look, I persuaded Vladimir, my old pal, I persuaded him not to try to take Poland, not to try to take the Baltic state. He did not even want to take all of Ukraine. Now, he has taken up the Dnieper River, and we're going to deal on that basis. I think there's room for a deal there. Maybe it's the hope being fathered to the thought, but if you look at it, let's say this term in General Kellogg's proposal, no Ukraine and NATO for 10 years. 50 years, okay. Trump, how about 35 years? Deal. I mean, 35 years from now, is Ukraine going to be able to go into NATO? Who knows? But, you know, you don't, this thing is not in concrete.

And Putin has shown himself, look, you know, we're willing to talk. Let's get somebody to talk to and then see if we could deal. He's open to it. We'll have to see how Trump is, but I think some of his advisors, as Larry hinted, are a little bit less rigid, let's say, than the collective Biden, Blinken, and Sullivan. Larry, in the death throes of the Biden administration, they have a bizarre view on whether Putin is winning or losing. When I saw this clip, I said, Chris, have it ready. I want to see Larry's blood boil. Here is Jake Sullivan.

Bite your tongue till it's over. Here is Jake Sullivan yesterday. Cut number 17. If I had told you three years ago that Joe Biden was going to announce a special military operation to take Ottawa in a week, and three years later, he was in the wheat fields of Manitoba, losing thousands of soldiers a month with inflation over 10% and interest rates in America over 20%. 600,000 Americans either dead or wounded

and were inching out little Canadian town by little Canadian town. Because this is the Trump plan, by the way. I don't know if you know this. Yeah. I mean, you would have said, you wouldn't sit here saying, wow, America's really winning that war in a big way. That's great for America.

You would never say that. But somehow we're saying, oh, the Russians, they're doing great. They are not doing great. They set out on a strategic objective of taking the capital Kiev, wiping ukraine as we know it off the map and they have failed in that and they will fail in that larry well we got some clues into what sullivan is going to be doing in his post-government career he will be writing fiction tales for adults, because that's exactly what that was. Everything that man said was a lie, was a misrepresentation of fact. At no point did

Putin or anybody in Russia stipulate that their initial objective was to take and capture Kiev. Never said it. And from the outset, they said their goal was to demilitarize denazify and they've been they've been quite effective at it there's not 600 000 dead and wounded russians that's a lie the fact that the russians are moving so steadily forward and with the west not having an answer there you see on display why the the biden administration's been so feckless in this task they they've refused to deal with the reality instead they indulge these childish fantasies and you know that that kind of silly uh glib attempt to i guess diminish what what Russia has truly accomplished.

Just yesterday on Thursday, an NBC reporter, when Vladimir Putin held his annual press conference, you know, press marathon, took questions for about four hours. This cat from NBC showed up and tried to say, well, how are you going to handle now that you're so weakened and you're so on the ropes and everything? And Putin, man, like a man, like a judo master, he is started off by saying, well, I simply note that I allow you from NBC from the United States to come here and ask questions. And we don't put any restrictions on you you don't allow any russian reporters anywhere in the united states to ask similar questions of joe biden or of any of the other western leaders so you're calling us weak we're strong because we're confident we can take your

questions your folks are the ones that are weak and then he just went i mean he he took this reporter apart piece by piece. He did. We have a part of that clip. We don't have the part about freedom of speech, which was terrific. But we do have a part I want you both to see. Ray, tell me what you think of this. Chris, cut number five. Mr. President, you have failed to reach the objectives of your special military operation.

Large numbers of Russians have died, including a general assassinated here in Moscow this week. And the leader of Syria, who you supported, has been overthrown. Mr President, when you face President-elect Trump, you will be the weaker leader. How do you propose to compromise? What are you going to offer? You asked what we can offer or I can offer to the President-elect Trump when we meet. I do not know when we are going to meet, because he does not speak about that.

I haven't spoken to him for more than four years now. I am prepared for that conversation at any time. I will be prepared to hold a meeting as well, if he so desires. You said that this conversation will take place where I'll be in a weekend stage I'm of a different opinion I think that Russia became much stronger over the past two or three years Russia today is in such a state that we have been trying to achieve it has become stronger it has become a truly sovereign country or you weigh in on rayrei, one more.

It's a lot shorter. Number seven, Chris. Well, I would like to present Russia as weakened. And as you're an American, I would like to remind you of a well-known writer and a person who said at some time, the rumors of my death are much exaggerated. And if we hold a meeting at some time with the President-elect Trump,

I'm sure we'll have something to discuss. The Russian President can quote Mark Twain. I wonder if American presidents can quote Tolstoy or Solzhenitsyn. Ray, go ahead, please. He's got the word from Sullivan as to how the Russians have taken it on the chin. Okay. It's almost as though Putin was glad that he put it in those terms because he was very easily to say, look, we're winning. We're much stronger. And then he quoted GDP and other figures. You know, the takeaway here is that Putin is extremely confident, and he's confident for lots of reasons. And one primary reason is that the situation three years ago,

exactly three years ago, looked very dire for him. He got before his top military on the 21st of December 2021, in other words, a few months before the special military operation, and he said, look, we're in dire straits. The Americans have put missile installations in Romania. They're almost finished in Poland, and they can use cruise missiles. They can fire cruise missiles from there. And we can't tolerate that because when the Americans get supersonic missiles, they're going to put them not only there, they're going to put them in Ukraine. And so we need hidebound treaties.

We need written documents this time. And you looked at his four-star generals. You could see it. Right, right. Written documents. How about the ABM treaty? How about the INF treaty? How about opens? So then Putin says, well, now that has not worked in the past, but we're going to try again. What happens? That was the 21st of December. Nine days later, the Kremlin calls the White House and says, Mr. Putin wants to talk to Mr. Biden like right away. Well, Biden's home alone, home alone at Christmas time in Delaware, okay? He takes the call to his credit.

And Putin says, look, my military is really exercised about these missiles you're putting in Romania and already almost in Poland. Could you just give me an assurance that you're not going to put them in Ukraine? Because that would mean five minutes warning time. And my military came down to me hard and said, that's not enough. Get a personal assurance from the president. And so Biden said, said well that makes sense and so the readout says Mr Biden said the U.S has no intention of putting offensive strike missiles in Ukraine long story short we welched on that in the next month when we got together in Geneva uh

Lincoln told Lavrov forget about it the president was home alone we weren'trov, forget about it. The president was home alone. We weren't with him. Forget about it. We might want to talk about how many missiles could go into Ukraine. But we have the right to do it. I'm going to do it. That was just about two weeks, three weeks, four weeks before the special military operation. And my friend, my new friend, the historian from California, whose name I'll remember in a second, says this was the

thing that tipped the edge here. This was the falsification, the tragedy, what's the word, the thing that tricked Putin beyond being able to deal either in print or in person with his opposite number in the United States. That's where we are today. And the equivalent address to the top military just last Monday exuded the same kind of confidence that you saw just now in that clip. And the reason for that is arechnik, it's a game changer. Now, Sullivan and Blinken say, no, it's not a game changer, but it's a game changer, okay? And Putin, once again, came back to the dais, and he said, look, don't forget arechnik. You use them together in several such systems together, and they have the power comparable to using nuclear weapons. Without the contamination,

this is a very important element in deciding what weapons we can use and what weapons the U.S. can't use because they somehow don't have them yet. But we're working on fancy things like the F-35s that don't really work well. Larry, here's Putin on December 16 on the mythical Russian threat. Cut number 13. At the same time, under the guise of a mythical Russian threat, they simply scare their population with the fact that we are going to attack someone. The tactics are very simple. They bring us to the red line through which we are retreating from the ancient Soviet

Union, now Russian threats. Meanwhile, the NATO countries themselves are increasing military spending near the Russian borders. The formation and cobbling together of NATO have long gone beyond the so-called zone of its historical responsibility. In addition, the so-called eastern flank, the alliance is increasing its presence in the Asia-Pacific region. With the support of the United States states new military and political alliances are being formed that undermines the security

architecture that has developed over decades larry do the elites in europe and in the state department believe that present-day russia is the same threat that the Soviet Union was in the 70s and 80s? No, they believe it's worse. They've given up the global communist conspiracy. Now, this is Russia intent on restoring the Tsarist Empire, which, as I recall, didn't have any outposts in South America, Africa, Asia. But, you know, let's not get bogged down with facts. Russia has become the boogeyman to justify the U.S. defense budget.

You know, it was I don't know if you caught Nikki Haley this week. She was going through this whole litany about how bad Russia is. And the outrage is that Russia is spending 50% of its GDP on its military budget. And then five, six minutes later, without a sense of cluelessness she was talking about the U.S defense budget which accounts for 56 percent of the federal budget quite a you know so when we're doing it it's okay well when they're doing it it's all bad and the fact of the matter is that Russia's got inflation under control Russia's growing at an economic rate that the united states can't match and despite all of that none of the senior policy makers in in the state department or the

intelligence officials are telling that truth about what's going on they are fabricating lies and and and ensnaring the american public with those lights. We'll end with this. Earlier today in Putin's marathon press conference, he, with a smile on his face, challenged the West to take down a Reshnik. Watch this. Code number 16. There is no chance to shoot down these Oreshnik missiles.

Well, if those Western experts you mentioned think so, that Oreshnik can be shot down, we suggest they and those in the West and the United States, who pay them for their analysis, conduct some kind of technological experiment, a high-tech duel of the 21st century. Let them name some object, let's say in Kiev, concentrate all their air defense and missile defense forces there, and we will hit it with Oreshnik and see what happens. We are ready for such an experiment.

Is the other side ready? That was yesterday on the 19th in his marathon. What do you think, Ray? Well, again, I think that exudes confidence. But I would caution that even though as opposed to three years ago, Putin is riding very high, he still is deathly afraid of the collective Biden, Blinken and Sullivan and what they might do in the next five weeks. Okay. These are less predictable than Trump, for God's sake, for these next five weeks. So they're on high alert. Putin said that his conventional forces are on high alert right now, lest something really

bad happen. And if you think about a mistake, maybe it's a mistake in quotes or a false flag sort of thing nothing is beyond these people and so even though even though he has the advantage now I think he's on on Tenderhooks to get to to the 20th of January when at least he can talk to his opposite number and kind of get a feel for whether a deal is possible on ukraine larry i'll give you the last word on putin and russia on joe biden and donald trump uh the united states refuses to accept putin at his word indulges you know i guess egregious fantasies about what putin is and about russia's capabilities uh my hope is that donald trump who's being lied to by the intelligence we now have absolute proof

that he's been lied to that he understands that he's being lied to and he trusts his own gut instinct that he can get something done with with putin but he's going to be in for a surprise the vladimir putin he's meeting now is not the vladimir putin he knew eight years ago this is a different vladimir putin and this vladimir putin is going to be a much tougher negotiator than anything that donald trump has ever encountered gentlemen thank you very much on a long. We have a short week next week. I know you'll be with us early in the week, but thanks very much for your time.

All the best. Have a great weekend. Great. Thanks so much, Judge. Next week is, of course, Christmas on Wednesday, but we will be with you on Monday and Tuesday with Alistair Crook, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, Pepe Escobar, Professor Jeff Sachs, and Scott Ritter, Monday and Tuesday.

Justin Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.