Judging Freedom - INTEL Roundtable w/ McGovern & Johnson: Weekly Wrap Up

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

INTEL Roundtable w/ McGovern & Johnson: Weekly Wrap UpSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, November 15th, 2024. It's the end of the day, the end of the week. It's our favorite time with my dear friends and collaborators doing double duty, the intelligence community rep with Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson. Gentlemen, thank you very much here. Ray, to you first, some of the things that Tulsi Gabbard has said about behavior of the executive branch and the intelligence community in the past has delighted me immensely, but I wonder how toothful or toothless, I don't know if toothful is even a

word, but you know what I mean, the DNI office is and how a person with no active intelligence community experience could reign them in, particularly when the CIA is going to be headed by a guy who'll do as has been done in the past. Judge, Tulsi Gabbard faces an uphill struggle. It's a really formidable challenge. She is substantively qualified to do this. She's smarter than hell, and I know that from personal experience. But she has no experience managing a big, big organization like the intelligence community. So she'll need somebody to do that for her. And a lot will depend on whom she picks to do that.

Substantively, she's really good, except for her trimming her sails later, like two months ago, on Israel and on Gaza. I was really disappointed in that. I guess that's what she felt she needed to do to gain Trump's favor. On covert action, now, I put it out in my article for Consortium News. She has titularly responsibility to advise and oversee covert action proposals by the CIA. Can she nullify covert action proposals? Oh, you know, I was just going to say that. I'm sorry. My apologies. Forgive me, Ray. Forgive me, Ray. I'm a little too anxious here. You're right. I'm wrong. Continue, please. Larry's laughing because Larry knows what I'm like. Go ahead. No, I'm kidding. I mean, it's exactly the right question action proposals with substantive analysts because the operations people didn't want to do that. Going back to Cuba, the operations people did not tell the analysts what was going to happen. They didn't tell the analysts about the Bay of Pigs,

and they didn't tell the Board of National Estimates that they were telling the president that Castro would be under the gun because people, they are uprising Cuba, and we will get rid of those damn commies. Arthur Schlesinger, a historian at Kennedy's behest, looked into it and he said, you know, this is a really, this is a crazy way to operate an organization. The COVID action people kept the analysts in the dark. And so the analysts were unable to advise the president, as they should have been able to. This is a cockamamie scheme.

There's going to be no uprising on the island of Cuba. And this is bound to fail unless you, Mr. President, unless you come in as you promised not to do and commit U.S. forces to the enterprise. They weren't able to do that because they were cut out of it. Now, Bill Colby, for whom I worked directly back in the mid-70s, okay, he gave us a look at some of these covert action proposals, and we were told, frankly, what we thought of them. Some of them never got into existence, but he was the only one. And so the question is, is Tulsi Gabbard going to be able to face down those old boys at the CIA who already won one struggle with a new director of national intelligence? I think it was Negroponte, the first one, when he wanted to have the have the option of appointing chiefs of station for the CIA overseas. And they faced them down and they got the president to say, no, no, that succeeds your

authority. Whether the stitial authority on covert action will persist, that really is a big gif. I would think the odds are against it. But she's a good sign amid a bunch of other people who are not such good scientists. Larry, if memory serves correctly, you and I argued vociferously against the creation of the DNI, figuring it was just another level of bureaucracy and whoever it was would be more or less a figurehead. A, do you still feel that way today? B, do you agree with Ray? She's probably not going to be able to affect the culture and illegal, immoral and unconstitutional behavior of the operations branch. No, I think actually she's going to be she'll be effective. And I know who her deputy is going to be. Just can't say it on air right now. I can tell you offline.

She'll have a deputy who's quite experienced and knows where all the bodies are buried. I expect what you're going to see is a great downsizing of the national DNI office because there are a lot of strap hangers there, SIS types that really don't need to be there. What's SIS? Senior Intelligence Service. Okay. So it's people who are the equivalent of a one-star, two-star general or higher.

The National Counterterrorism Center is going to be cut back. So I think it was actually a very strong choice by Trump. And, you know, even though you can tell it's good because john bolton doesn't like it you know when when the neocons go crazy that tells you it's a very effective choice oh i gotta show i never thought i'd be running john bolton on this show particularly to the two of you but let me show you john bolton going crazy. Chris, cut number nine. I think that Tulsi Gabbard's nomination to be director of national intelligence, when I first heard that today, my immediate reaction was hilarious. Why? She's totally not competent for that job. Gates is the worst. She may be tracking in at the second worst. Haven't had a lot of time to

do research on the Tulsi Gabbard nomination. But let me bring you to January the 8th, 2020 congressional briefing after President Trump's correct decision to eliminate Qasem Soleimani, the head of the Iranian Quds Force. She said Tulsi Gabbard said in an interview with Jake Tapper that the briefers who described the reasons for the elimination of Qasem Soleimani and how it carried out, she said they provided vague comments, no justification whatsoever for this illegal and unconstitutional act of war that President Trump took. So now is she prepared to obey the orders of a man who committed an illegal and unconstitutional act of war as director of national intelligence? Is that the kind of person Donald Trump wants to head that important function? I've believed for a long time that ODNI should be

abolished. And now there's another reason to abolish it. He actually agrees with us on cutting back on the bureaucracy. What she said about the murder of Qasem Soleimani, Larry, was 100% correct. And it was probably John Bolton who talked Trump into it. I don't recall if he was even there then, but I do know from someone who was involved with those discussions that there was enormous pressure brought to bear on Trump to do it. That Trump was not inclined to do it, and he got bullied. And, you know, he hasn't forgotten that. Let's recognize what, in public, Trump is talking real tough about Iran. He's going, we're going to go hit their nuclear site.

Yesterday, he sent Elon Musk to New York to meet with the Iranian UN ambassador. Trump's working behind the scenes. He's going to work a deal. I wouldn't be surprised that sometime within the first year of the Trump administration, we see something like the JCPOA resurface in a different form, and Trump will take credit for it. Ray, what do we know about John Ratcliffe, who will be the new director of CIA? Will he unleash the operation, subject to what Gabbard lets him do, unleash the operations division to do whatever they want?

Will there still be coups and secret wars and all those crazy things that they've been doing since 1947? Well, Judge, he will be captive to them for sure. But, you know, the big caveat is what you just mentioned, what will Tulsi Gabbard be able to do in terms of restraining them? You know, she exercises this authority under the National Security Act to fulfill such are the functions and duties as the president shall from time to time direct. That's covert action, okay? Now, we know that the legislation of 2008 provides for her to have an overseership

or an advisory capacity on that. So the really weird types of overthrows of governments should go through her, and I know her well enough to think that she'll quit if they circumvent her on something as important as that. As far as Soleimani is, let's remind everyone that when he was killed, he was in Baghdad on a mission, on a mission, a diplomatic mission to coordinate Sunni and Shia, and he was next, I think, destined for Syria. So he was on a peace mission, and the guys didn't like that. They decided to whack him. The fiction that he was responsible for killing this and that thousands of Americans or planned to do so was just that, a fiction.

Larry, to get your juices going a little bit, here's a montage that Chris put together of Mike Huckabee at his worst, the new U.S. ambassador to israel cut number four basically i mean there really is nothing saying as i had to be careful saying this because people just really get it there's really no sense of palestinian there's such a complexity in that right there's really no supply um that's been a political tool to try to force land away from Israel. The two-state solution, if we name two governments holding the same piece of real estate, is irrational and unworkable. If there is a two-state solution,

the Palestinian state needs to be outside the boundaries of the nation of Israel. There's plenty of land in the world that we could find a place and say, okay, let's create a Palestinian state. There are certain words I refuse to use. There is no such thing as a West Bank. It's Judea and Samaria. There's no such thing as a settlement. They're communities, they're neighborhoods, they're cities. There's no such thing as an occupation. Isn't that odd that two of the most recent IDF commanding generals in charge of the occupation in Gaza have referred to it as an occupation? The United Nations refers to it as an occupation. The International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, call it an occupation.

Larry? I got the ideal placement. There is plenty of room. I did my honeymoon there. Arkansas. Let's take all the Jewish place, man. There is plenty of room. I did my honeymoon there. Arkansas. Let's take all the Jewish settlers to Arkansas. Somehow I knew that was coming, Larry.

Hot Springs, baby. The home of Bill Clinton. Even better, I bet you they can take Mike Huckabee's home and live in it, and he won't mind. He won't mind that these foreign people come to his home, take it over, and kick his ass out. You know, what he said is sickening, disgusting, and disgraceful.

And yet, that is the person and the mentality that will be representing the United States in Jerusalem and giving Netanyahu, or his, if Netanyahu ever leaves, as long as Trump is in, whatever he wants, right? Yeah. Well, I was just going to add, and given Tulsi Gabbard's conversion to the Zionist cause over the last several months, there's no guarantee that she may feel courageous enough to say Mike Huckabee doesn't know what he's talking about. In other words, for Mike Huckabee, God is a real estate agent, right? And he gave a certain piece of real estate to the Jews.

Well, that's unbiblical, that's crazy, okay? They cite Deuteronomy 15.4. It was a deal. The first part was, you shall have this wonderful land. The second part was, so there shall be no poor among you. In other words, it was a deal. It was a covenant, okay? And when you see the West Bank, as I have several times, you could see there are lots of poor among them, and the pristine, pure lawns that are being watered on top of those hills with the Israeli settlers, you know, they speak really justice when you look down the hill and there's no running water, there's nothing much to eat. It's utter poverty down there. So Huckabee's got it all wrong to the degree he believes it. It's equally mischievous that he's one of these

christian zionists larry how uh will marco rubio compare with uh sergey lavrov his opposite number his opposite number in moscow he he'll show up uh you know if they put him side by side he'll look like mini me you know from uh the doctor evil uh series so you know, if they put him side by side, he'll look like mini me, you know, from the Dr. Evil series. So, you know, the Lavrov can, you know, put a, put a, maybe a little chain around his neck, have him dance around like a little, little organ grinder monkey. Look, I don't think Rubio is sacrificing in some aspects, his future for his ambition. Because what's interesting about this, Rubio, he's not sitting on loads of money. You know, he's not an independently wealthy man.

And he's just basically given up a lifetime job in the Senate that he could have hung on to for a while. You know, maybe he wanted to run for governor at some point. But now, he's entirely dependent on Donald Trump. And so, Trump can fire him at any point. So what I see is

Marco's not going to be pursuing a Marco agenda. Marco's going to be pursuing a Donald Trump agenda, and Trump's going to be calling the shots, not Marco. I think that that's the case with all of these appointees. I almost think that Donald Trump does not want thinking people to advise him or restrain him. He wants clerks to execute his wishes in grand and in minute ways. Larry, before I jump over to Ray,

Pete Hegseth has told Trump privately and publicly that we should be bombing civilian sites in Tehran. Now, this is before he was nominated to be Secretary of Defense. Wouldn't you expect the Secretary of Defense to say, wait a minute, wait a minute, you want to destroy bridges in Tehran? Putin's going to destroy bridges in Miamihran? Putin's going to destroy bridges in Miami. Do you realize that there's going to be consequences to this? But people say, when do you want it done, sir? Yeah. Now, look, Trump ran as an anti-war president. He didn't want to start any new wars. If he retreats, backflips on that promise, he'll be a dead president.

He will have lost all credibility. I don't think he's going to do that. I don't know what the motive was for Hegseth, but I don't think Hegseth is going to get approved. Hegseth is not competent for the job. He doesn't have any depth of history or knowledge about the re any of the critical regions in the world uh he just sort of repeats neocon talking points right and i i'll again i'll tell you offline the name of who's standing in the wings to take over when he goes face first plus there are already words out there the guy's been married four or five times. There's a charge

of a sexual case out in California that never got charged, but is definitely a he said, she said situation. The last thing Trump's going to want now with this guy is someone who's having to beat off

all of these attacks. A similar thing with Gates. Gates is not going to be confirmed. Oh, my God. Gates brought to mind the Roman Emperor Caligula nominating his horse for the Roman Senate. I'm sorry. You know, the AG doesn't have to be Nino Scalia type, but he should be a universally respected lawyer.

Larry sent a fascinating clip of Donald Trump in 2015. Listen to what he says about the relationship between the Israelis and the Palestinians. It's two minutes long, and the best part is at the end. Both sides, to make a deal, have to want to make it. I have my own views. I want to keep them quiet for a little while because if I ever end up in the midst, that would be a great achievement to get a real piece.

I want to meet with Bibi. You know, I'm going to be probably going over there pretty soon. And I want to see him. I want to see other people. I want to get some ideas on it because, frankly, that has been and I say it to everybody, that has been the all time difficult deal. They've been working on it for so many decades. I mean, just it just never ends. But the key is a lasting piece. We have a lasting piece. First thing you have to ask, do they both want to make it? I have a real question as to whether or not both sides wants to make. I have a real question as to one side in particular, whether or not they want to make it. Well, I don't want to say that right now. I think one side actually would like a deal. And I think the other one maybe doesn't want a deal, to be honest. I don't want to say it. No, look, we show our cards too much in the good. I wrote the art of the deal. We show our cards too much.

So if I get into that, I don't want to say this and that, and then they'll come and they'll say, well, Trump is biased one way or the other. I think there's a chance that you could probably make a deal if you to do because so much death, so much turmoil, so much hatred, that would be to me a great achievement. As a single achievement, that would be a really great achievement. I think a lot is going to do with Israel. Look, it's going to have to do with both sides, but a lot will have to do with Israel and whether or not Israel wants to make the deal, whether or not Israel's going to have to do with both sides. But a lot will have to do with Israel and whether or not Israel wants to make the deal, whether or not Israel's willing to sacrifice certain things. They may not be. And I understand that. And I'm OK with that.

But then you're just not going to have a deal. So we'll see what happens. I'll let you know in about, if I win, I'll let you know six months from the time I take office. I have a very good, I will have a very good idea as to whether or not a deal can be made. It's obvious that in 2015 he thought that the obstinate, obstreperous ones were Netanyahu and the Zionists. Of course, the so-called deal that he made, the Abraham Accords, did nothing, nothing

for the Palestinian people and didn't even allow them to participate in the negotiations for it right well that's exactly right when jared kushner was giving the portfolio to do a deal there he did the kind of deal that you just suggested there was nothing in it for the palestinians i would remind our viewers that it's exactly 20 years since Yasser Arafat was assassinated by the Mossad. The Swiss doctors that looked at what happened to him testified to the fact that it was polonium. It was slow acting polonium. That shows how much the Israelis even then then, wanted a two-state solution. They never have wanted it. They want the whole deal, and that is the fly in the ointment.

Netanyahu doesn't want a deal. He wants to exterminate. He wants genocide for the Palestinians, and we are enabling him to do that. And the answer will be whether Trump is any better than Biden in assisting and enabling the killing of a whole group of people, namely the Palestinians. Gentlemen, we have to go because Larry Wilkerson is coming up. Thank you very much for your time. As always, we'll see you both. Thank you for that clip of Trump, Larry, which we didn't know existed.

We'll see you both on Monday morning. All the best. All right. Thanks. Coming up at five o'clock this afternoon, Eastern, Colonel Larry Wilkerson, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. I'm going to go to bed.