Judging Freedom - INTEL RoundTable: Weekly Intel Wrap-Up

Episode Date: April 26, 2024

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Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, April 26th, 2024. It's time for the Intelligence Community Roundtable. Ray McGovern is here. Matt Ho is substituting for the vacationing Larry Johnson. I'm kidding. He's not vacationing. He spoke to the United Nations Security Council earlier today. If you want to see and hear what Larry said, we have posted it on the YouTube channel under the videos, you'll see it. It's a fascinating comment that Matt and Ray and I were privileged to see before he actually made the comments. To the issues at hand, gentlemen, let me start with you, Matt. What is the state of affairs in Ukraine as we speak with respect to the military. Even the Wall Street Journal reports that almost no matter what the U.S. sends over

there, they really lack the manpower to use it. Well, it's been said over and over again, including on this channel, Judge, that no matter how much money the the us and the europeans send to ukraine if there aren't men to pull the triggers uh it doesn't matter you know you can send them all the money all the bombs all the weapons you need but if you don't have uh men on the ground uh doing the killing and and the dying it doesn't matter. And that's what we're seeing now really play out in Ukraine. There were a couple of developments in terms of how the Ukrainians are handling their draft laws. I think people are aware that they expanded their draft, lowered the age so that anyone 25 and above

is now eligible for the draft, as well as commitments to strengthen that process to bring people into the Ukrainian military. But the Ukrainians are also looking at Ukrainians who are overseas. So the Ukrainian foreign ministry is tightening the rules, basically trying to get Ukrainian men who are overseas have their passports expire and then be kicked out and sent back home. And their Ukrainians are also on a full press of their allies to send these people back. And this morning on Al Jazeera, I saw an interview with the Polish defense minister who basically said, we'll do everything we can to send these Ukrainian men back to Ukraine. And just on a personal note, I have worked on my house, Judge, this week, and two of the guys that were here doing the work

were Ukrainian men who came from Ukraine after Russia invaded. And being with these guys for a couple of days, they were so hardworking. They were such good men. And the idea that they would be sent into that slaughter for nothing is so appalling. It's so disgusting and so disturbing when you actually have that, when you have that type of personal connection with someone to understand that people are being lost in this unwinnable war, this war, this proxy war to be used as pawns for an imperial project. You know what I mean? So, but in your question, yeah, Ukraine is not in good shape. And this is what, you know, we've been saying, we've been expecting. So what good will the 61 billion do, Ray? We know that about 40 of it is going to stay here. In fact, just as we came on air, CNN reports that Lloyd Austin, the Secretary

of Defense, announces $6 billion long-term military aid package for Ukraine. I guess that means $6 billion for his former employer, Raytheon, because if it's a long-term package, that means it doesn't exist yet, and they're going to pay Raytheon to build it because they somehow think there will still be a Ukrainian government and Ukrainian military left by the time Raytheon builds it. But I'll let you take it from there, Ray. Well, Judge, you put your finger right on it. This is not about Ukraine. It's about two things. It's about an attempt, however frivolous, to weaken Russia, which had just the opposite effect. And it's a successful attempt to feed the military-industrial complex, of which Lloyd Austin, of course, is an exemplar. And they made it very clear. Blinken, Biden himself, 80% of their money is there right here. It's going to be building factories. It's going to give jobs. Give me a break. That's what it's all about. He needed to do that before the election.

Now, with respect to the situation on the ground, you have various pundits now, one of whom, one of whom, his name is George Beebe. He used to be a high-level official on Russia in the CIA after my time, but two months ago, he said, now we've got to keep giving this defensive aid, and we've got to keep, but what did he say two days ago? What he said two days ago was, if Washington, you know what, listen to this now, if Washington were intentionally to design a formula for Ukraine's destruction, it might look a lot like the aid package passed by Congress this week. Wow. Has he ended up? What a profound and realistic criticism.

Yeah. Now, and this is a guy who two weeks ago, months ago, I'm sorry, said, oh, yeah, we got to keep going. So here he finishes up. The new aid is spending that lacks a coherent plan for making it effective. This makes it a formula for prolonging,

not ending the war. It will almost guarantee that Ukraine will continue throwing its reserves of manpower into a war it cannot win, and which is wreaking evermore havoc on Ukraine's infrastructure, blah, blah, blah. It's a waste of money, and even more disturbingly, a waste of the House of Representatives who was born in Ukraine and came over here at age 10, and she voted against the aid to Ukraine. I don't know her name. I was with Congressman Andy Biggs this morning, and he mentioned it to me that we should probably interview her. She not only voted against it, Matt,

that gave them five minutes of time, she spoke against it. She got one minute of the five. I asked Tony Schaefer, whom we all know the other day, how many Americans are on the ground in Ukraine, military and intelligence, and he gave me a number that rid her disputes. So I want to ask the two of you about that number. Tony says there were 15,000 Americans on the ground, military out of uniform, Intel, whatever the Intel folks were, and other personnel. Could the number be that big, Matt? I don't know, Judge. It sounds, certainly if you go back, and you just saw me raise my eyebrows when you said that, but I don't know, Judge. It sounds, certainly if you go back and you just saw me raise my eyebrows when you said that. But I don't know, Judge.

I mean, I don't think so. I think in terms of actual members of the U.S. forces that are there, both overt and covert, you're looking at well under 1,000. But when you start adding in contractors, you start adding in mercenaries, you start adding in volunteers, you know, this number is going to start to climb. And like, even in our own wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the last half of those, you were looking at rate of roughly a ratio of two to one, three to one, four to one of contractors to soldiers. So, so much of warfare nowadays is privatized. You use vendors, you use contractors, you use outside technical help, as they'll call it, to fill the roles that were normally or previously done by those in uniform.

So I don't know if it's that high as 15,000, but I think what the actual number is, is probably much higher than most of us actually think. But we know that this government of ours is willing to lie about it. We saw just this week that it was revealed that the United States government was sending long range attack missiles to Ukraine without the public's knowledge, let alone the Congress's knowledge, not that the Congress would probably do anything about it. So, I mean, the idea that our government would have people over there and not be honest about it is, I think, everything that all of us accept. Now, I want to go back to Ukraine to that point you made about that Ukrainian member of Congress, Judge, and about the two men that I got to know this week.

You know, neither of them were in favor of this war. But the way our media here in the United States makes it sound out is that all of Ukraine is behind the war. And we've seen public opinion polling coming out of Ukraine that shows it's just not true. First of all, more than half of Ukrainians say they understand why people avoid the draft, why they dodge the draft. 54% of Ukrainians say that they understand that. And basically, more than half of Ukrainians are saying the Ukrainian war is not worth dying for. More than half say that. More than half, 54% of Ukrainians say they understand why Ukrainian to the end and fight to defeat Russia and take back all its territory.

But 46% felt that Ukraine should negotiate and end to the war. So there are more Ukrainians in Ukraine who feel that negotiations are the right way forward, as there are Ukrainians who feel that this is a war that needs to be fought to some type of victorious conclusion. Here's the Congresswoman Victoria Spars, S-P-A-R-T-Z, born in Ukraine. So she's a dual Ukraine-American citizen, a Republican from Indiana's 5th District, who proudly and defiantly joined the majority of her countrymen, according to what you just said, Matt, if the polls are accurate, in opposing the American military aid. Ray, how many intel operatives, American, do you think are on the ground there? And what other countries would have intel operatives on the ground? We know the Brits are, they go wherever the Americans go, but who else would be there?

Well, I would say between the Brits and the Americans, they probably have about 2,000 case officers. These are the people that run the agents, run the Ukrainian agents and others. With respect to others, the Israelis are certainly there. The French and Germans, they all have their people there. But the big players, of course, are the UK, MI6, which is pretty much drafting Zelensky's speeches, I'm told. He's a really good actor. He sticks to his script when he does, and he's really great. Okay. Talking about Zelensky, doesn't his term expire in 2024? And didn't he cancel the elections? I mean, is he going to try and stay on beyond his term?

Well, he is. And we're only a couple of weeks away from, I think it's April 21st. Is that when it expires? I believe it's May 1st, which is next Wednesday. Okay. So, yeah. So he'll be illegal then. And that should change things. In other words, Putin looks at things in a very legalistic way. And if a fellow refuses to obey his constitution and capriciously, without the support of the rest of the major players in Ukraine, Zagreb still will be president.

Well, that puts him in a more vulnerable position than before. I can hardly believe that people like Blinken believe that we can win here. I think that unless they're completely dumb, they can't believe that. And what I would cite, and I do this because a lot of people say, well, where do you get this stuff, McGovern? Nine years ago, when Obama said, look, the worst thing we can do is to give the Ukrainians the idea that they could beat in a military battle the far more strong Russians. Okay. And here's what Blinken says at the same time.

Mark my words or Mark Blinken's words. Military terrain in Ukraine, you're playing to Russia's strength. Anything we do as countries in terms of providing military support for Ukraine is likely to be matched and then doubled and then tripled and then quadrupled by Russia. Therefore, my President Obama is quite right in saying we shouldn't supply offensive weaponry to Ukraine. What was the date? That was the date was March 5th, 2015. So what, nine years ago, and all of a sudden everything changes. The terrain and Russia.

Give me a break. Blinken, I don't know what he believes, but he can't believe two things at the same time. What he said nine years ago and what he's saying now. When he said that nine years ago, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe he was either the chief foreign policy advisor or chief of staff for Vice President Biden. Actually, he was deputy secretary of state. Okay. Even deeper into the State Department establishment for him to have made a statement like that,

Matt Ho, which was truthful when he made it and is truthful today. State Department establishment for him to have made a statement like that, Matt Ho, which was truthful when he made it and is truthful today. Correct. Correct, Judge. And I'm going to apologize because I got a guy who just, the perils of live television, Judge, I got a guy who's delivering 50 pounds of dog food to my door right now

and my dogs are probably going to go crazy. So you want to go get the dog food and I'll talk to ray or we'll just throw it to ray so i can at least mute uh okay okay all right i can substitute for the dog food is that it matt 50 pounds of dog food god bless my chris not our superstar producer that just found this ukrainian woman's name and My dog, Chris, would go crazy if 50 pounds of dog food arrived. When Matt comes back, I'm going to play this, because I want to get into the freedom of speech issues.

I'm going to play this horrific talk that Prime Minister Netanyahu gave complaining about too much freedom of speech in America, if you can imagine such a thing. But let me ask you this. Do you think Washington has ever considered the fact that Ukraine can lose? The dog food is done? The dog food is here and everyone is happy. Okay.

It's just coming. Hold off on what I started to ask you. I want to go to Israel because I want to end up in China with what Tony Blinken said a few hours ago. Here is Prime Minister Netanyahu. It's about two minutes long. It's as aggravating and untruthful and bellicose as you can imagine. It's addressed to Americans, and it is an effort to tamp down dissent in America. Watch this.

What's happening on America's college campuses is horrific. Antisemitic mobs have taken over leading universities. They call for the annihilation of Israel. They attack Jewish students. They attack Jewish faculty. This is reminiscent of what happened in German universities in the 1930s. It's unconscionable. It has to be stopped. It has to be condemned and condemned unequivocally.

But that's not what happened. The response of several university presidents was shameful. Now, fortunately, state, local, federal officials, many of them have responded differently, but there has to be more. More has to be done. It has to be done not only because they attack Israel. That's bad enough. Not only because they want to kill Jews wherever they are. That's bad enough. It's also, when you listen to them, it's only because they want to kill Jews wherever they are, that's bad enough. It's also, when you listen to them, it's also because they say not only death to Israel, death to the Jews, but death to America.

And this tells us that there is an anti-Semitic surge here that has terrible consequences. We see this exponential rise of anti-Semitism throughout America and throughout Western societies as Israel tries to defend itself against genocidal terrorists, genocidal terrorists who hide behind civilians. Yet it is Israel that is falsely accused of genocide, Israel that is falsely accused of starvation and all sundry war crimes. It's all one big libel. But that's not new. We've seen in history that anti-Semitic attacks

were always preceded by vilification and slander, lies that were cast against the Jewish people that are unbelievable, yet people believed them. And what is important now is for all of us, all of us who are interested and cherish our values and our civilization, to stand up together and to say enough is enough. We have to stop anti-semitism because anti-semitism is the canary in the coal mine. It always precedes larger conflagrations that engulf the entire world. So I ask all of you, Jews and non-Jews alike, who are concerned with our common future and our common values, to do one thing.

Stand up. Speak up. Be counted. Stop anti-Semitism now. Where do I begin unpacking this, Matt? You know, he sounds like someone who's been committing a genocide and has been rewarded with tens of billions of dollars for it. That's where he's got the gall to say something like that. Of course he says something like that. You know, when I watch this, as well as when I watch what's occurring otherwise

with our leaders, if you want to call them out in this country, say House Speaker Mike Johnson this morning or yesterday afternoon saying that the students on campus were supporting Hamas. And he made a number of statements that were untrue, including the well-exposed and debunked lie that babies were cooked in ovens. But we have the Speaker of the House repeating that lie six months later. And what you see with whether it's Netanyahu or with Johnson, just the tools of demagoguery, the tools of autocrats, the tools of fascists, this use of gaslighting, this use of lies, and to make out those who are protesting genocide, those who are protesting war, those who are protesting war, those who are protesting

the intersection of academia and the military industrial complex, Mickey Matt, as I'm sure Ray can explain to us. When you see all that unfolding like it's unfolding, we realize what a dangerous place we are in, but also too, as we recognize here as well, the perils of what has occurred to our institutions of journalism. The fact that you have these members of Congress, you have Joe Biden describing the protests that are happening on his campus, not as anti-war protests, not as anti-genocide protests, not as pro-Palestinian protests, but as anti-Semitic protests. You have our media going along with it. You do not have them challenging these people like

they need to be challenged. You do not have people fronting Speaker Johnson saying, Speaker Johnson, you are repeating lies that have been proven untrue. And so this is where we get into this really dangerous spot, Judge, right, of not just these autocrats, not just these fascists, these genocidists, but also to a weakened journalism, a weakened fifth estate, if you will, that's supposed to protect democracy, that's supposed to be one of the pillars of democracy, this ability for us, the people, to know, to have this transparency on power, but also know what's occurring around them and understand when demagogues are lying

in order to maintain their power. And with this media we have now, with these journalists we have now, we're in very grave danger of these people like Netanyahu, Johnson, Biden continuing to be successful. I'm repulsed by my conservative friends and former colleagues who are in favor of the censorship. And here's what it has led to. Police on horseback at the University of Texas, just mowing into mobs of young people. NYPD arresting college kids for just speaking out loud on a public green, a place dedicated to the exchange of ideas on Columbia University. And this morning at Emory University, Chris caught this. Governor Kemp of Georgia ordered the state police to come in. There's apparently a state police training academy

not far from where Emory University, a beautiful, fine educational institution is located. The police came in and tackled this student. The student was on the ground and a professor came, recognized the student, leaned over to ask the student if the student was okay, and 15 seconds later, this is what the professor looked like. We have it, Chris? Okay, well, Chris will get the picture. Get on the ground! Okay, well, Chris Oh, my God. You people are fascists. You are Hitler. You are a happy dog. Shame on you. May you never have another day. I am a professor.

This is what Governor Kemp unleashed his rabid dogs to do because of free speech with which he disagreed. Ray? I am a professor. That's what she cried out. Yes. On May 4th, 1970, at Kent State University, several students were shot and killed. This is the positive news that I went viral. Now there are iPhones. We have much more on Professor Follin if you're interested in looking it up. It's brutal. It's fascism, okay? But when students, thank God for students, recognize fascism, they rise up.

It's not going to be easy. I always dare suggest that it's impossible to quell this student rebellion because they have a sense of justice that is lacking among many of us. And I wish them success. I don't think Colombia can keep the lid on this time. We'll have to see. But there are iPhones. There are things now that weren't available before. So this could go on steroids. As for, you know, talking about steroids, as for Netanyahu, you know, that was chutzpah on steroids. I, too, found it despicable, but not uncharacteristic of that gentleman. seen a leader of a foreign country make such a direct entry into American domestic politics on an area of American behavior so integral to our existence as the freedom of speech, Matt?

I don't think so, Judge. I don't think so. And the fact that it's so accepted and it will happen again, there's no consequence for it because, again, this is a man who's committing genocide who we are rewarding with tens and tens of billions of dollars. To Ray's point about these encampments, these student encampments, and Ray, they just opened up an encampment at Chapel Hill. So I'm going to go over there this weekend. So if you're here in North Carolina, please join us over there with those brave kids, those kids that are on the right side, you know, on the side of justice and on mercy. But, you know, the idea, Judge, right, is that imagine if they hadn't cracked down. If Governor Kemp hadn't sent those state troopers in, we wouldn't know about the encampment in Emory.

The same in, you know, all these other locations across the country. And every day, more and more schools, these brave kids are pitching tents and standing up for what's right. And, you know, but it's what that shows, though, the fact that what if they just left this alone? No one would know about it. They can't leave it alone because they despise and fear speech that challenges them. Exactly, Judge. Exactly. And that's why, you know, with as negative or as pessimistic as I may have just sounded about our media and how dangerous these autocrats and genocidists are, the fact is, is that you see how scared they are, right?

How fragile their hold on power may actually be. And so that if we support these kids, if we organize with these kids, if we mobilize with them, if we do what they need in terms of support, they will be successful. Just as the kids in the 70s were, just as those kids, those four kids that were murdered at Kent State, ultimately that movement was successful. Did it proceed or move as quickly did it have a result as fast as people wanted no of course not it never does or rarely does but the point is eventually it is successful and that's what we have to remember here as we move forward it may seem dark it may seem hard it may seem that there is no way forward, that this is only going to continue.

Because particularly, too, in this age, as Ray brought up with the iPhones and, you know, we see this every day. We see videos coming out of Gaza that we never, ever wanted to see. And then tomorrow we'll see videos just like that again. And we've been dealing with that for months now, more than six months, going on seven months. But we have to persevere. There's no alternative to that. We can't cede any ground on this and we have to continue to organize. We have to continue to stay steadfast, so mood as the Palestinians stay.

And because the alternative is, is to let these men, let these monsters like Netanyahu, Biden, Johnson continue to carry out what they're going to do, because this won't be the end of it. They will move on to something else. Right. Last topic before we go, for some strange reason, within three days after the United States government agreed to send $5 billion in military equipment to Taiwan, and within three days after the Congress voted to authorize the president, any president, now or in the future, to cancel and ban TikTok, Tony Blinken decides to visit President Xi. Here's the nonsense that he said. You tell me if you think he's talking about Russia or if you think he's talking about Netanyahu? I reiterated our serious concern about the PRC providing components that are powering Russia's brutal war of aggression against Ukraine. China is the top supplier of machine tools,

microelectronics, nitrocellulose, which is critical to making munitions and rocket propellants, and other dual-use items that Moscow is using to ramp up its defense industrial base, a defense industrial base that is churning out rockets, drones, tanks, and other weapons that President Putin is using to invade a sovereign country, to demolish its power grid and other civilian infrastructure, to kill innocent children, women, and men. Kill innocent women, children, and men. Paul Jay Heal innocent women, children, and men. Does he even realize the double entendres with which he often speaks? Put aside that he continues to dress like an undertaker. I couldn't resist that. Go ahead, Ray.

Ray Dalio Well, Judge, he's exaggerating the degree of support that Russia is relying upon from China economically. But let's take at that face value. Wasn't Blinken the guy that said, oh, we can sanction the hell out of the world? Didn't he think that maybe China could help the Russians? You know, it's ridiculous on its face. And that right before going to China to say, look, we don't like the fact that you're helping the Russians in Ukraine. Now, what's the rest of the story? The most significant thing

is that the Chinese, always playing a very principled statesman-like way, let Xi Jinping himself meet with Biden, with Blinken, just about two hours ago. Okay. And what did he say? Can't we get along? Can't we get, we And what did he say? Can't we get along? Can't we get it? We have lots in dispute, but can't we get along? Who's coming next month or the following month? Putin, right? Now Putin is going to be saying to Xi Jinping, look, this is what I'm going to have to do in Ukraine now. Remember when we talked on the 4th of February 2022, and you said, okay, if you have to do it, well, we're going to talk when I come to Beijing. And after that, I will decide what to do. And if the situation looks like I need to do a big arrow offensive,

with your acquiescence, that's precisely what I'm going to do. So Ukraine, again, I think depends largely on the degree of support that this monster country, this great big country, China, will give to Putin so he feels very comfortable having China at his back. Here's what President Xi said, which neither Joe Biden or Donald Trump want to hear. Quote, I have said many times that the earth is big enough for China and the U.S. to develop and prosper respectively. We should be partners and not rivals. Said that in public and he said it to Tony Blinken's face. We're seeing it. We're seeing a shift, right?

We're seeing a shift. You know, we talk about the effect that American policies, our support for genocide, our support for a proxy war, the fact that the way we act in Asia, we're seeing how that's affecting other nations and the choices that they're going to make in the future, how we're isolating ourselves. And there's a study that came out of Asian nations.

And for the first time ever, people of Asian nations said if they were forced to choose, and that was key, if they were forced to choose, because like most of us, they don't want to choose. You know, this is the 108th anniversary of the Easter rebellion in Ireland in 1916. And the great James Connolly, who led that rebellion, he famously said in World War I, neither king nor Kaiser, right? I think that's how most of us are, including people in Asia. But when asked this question, if you were forced to choose between aligning with China or aligning with the United States, for the first time ever, more people

in Asia said they would align with China rather than the U.S. And the people under people certainly who understand the history of the relationships there between nations, that is astounding. That's just as astounding as the fact that Tehran and Moscow are now allies, essentially. Right. This is what American policies are doing. We are causing historical changes. We are destroying historical norms because we are so ravenous. We are so maniacal with our empire. We are forcing people into alliances, forcing people to see things in a way they never saw before because we are so dangerous to them. Ray, I'll give you the last word and then it's a happy Friday and happy weekend. Well, I'll just say amen to what Matt just said. These are tectonic

shifts. You don't notice them day by day, but year by year you do. And whereas in my youth, Russia's and Chinese were at each other's throats and we could exploit that. No longer is that the case. Russia and China are joined at the hip and people like Blinken can't seem to wrap their minds around that. And that has fatal consequences for what's going to happen in Ukraine as well as Southwest Asia. We ought to recognize it before it's too late. That's about all I'd say on that. Gentlemen, thank you very much for a most stimulating and rewarding conversation. Deeply appreciated. We'll see you both at your usual times next week.

Thanks, George. Of course. Coming up at 3 o'clock Eastern, which finishes our live programming for this week, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, on all of this, on China, on Russia, on Ukraine, on Israel, and on the freedom of speech. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thanks for watching!