Judging Freedom - IS RUSSIA PRE-EMPTING THE UKRAINIAN OFFENSIVE_ Larry Johnson fmr CIA

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, June 1st, 2023. It's about 2.30 in the afternoon here on the east coast of the United States. Larry Johnson joins us today. Larry, always a pleasure. Thanks, Judge. Are you of the view that Russia is presently or will soon be preempting any Ukraine spring offensive? I think the Russian campaign to do that has been underway for about four weeks. Once it was being so prominently announced by U.S. government officials like Victoria Nuland, as well as Ukrainian officials, that, oh, we're going to hit you, the offensive is coming, Russia began an aggressive bombing missile campaign that has stretched across Ukraine.

And it's been, I think the only day that there was a break was maybe yesterday. So they've been hitting targets, particularly in Kiev, in Western Ukraine. One of the objectives of this, I believe, is to degrade, further degrade, wipe out Ukraine's air defense system. But the second is to actually hit targets that are instrumental in the Ukrainians being able to mount an offensive. And just the other day, we got reports that the military intelligence headquarters, the equivalent of the GUR in Ukraine, was struck. And a high, high likelihood that there were NATO and US.S. officials in that facility that may have been killed. What kind of a facility is it? I mean, above ground, below ground, well protected?

Both. It was an above ground facility, about 12 stories if I recall correctly, but it had an underground bunker. And that's what was hit. So it's not clear what the Russians used. They've got a couple of hypersonic missiles that can fit the bill, they can penetrate the earth and hit that bunker. But it's clear that that bunker was struck and there has been a complete shutdown of information and a physical shutdown of the road that goes to that facility in Ukraine. The Ukrainians in Kiev have been very, very keen on keeping anybody from posting anything on the internet that would show the actual physical damage or physical results of Russian strikes.

Well, Larry, this is all breaking news that you're giving us. We haven't seen this anywhere in mainstream media. What do your friends in the intelligence community say about this, or do they not know anything about it? would readily be reported in intelligence channels, and either at the secret or top secret level. And apparently none of that's getting out. It's almost as if there is a deliberate shutdown. What remains to be seen is that, is the information being shut down because there is an upcoming military operation that they intend to keep quiet? Or is it a shutdown uh because

uh of what jack tixera did the leaks uh from uh you know about two months ago uh you know anything's possible but the fact is there there is not a good flow of intelligence information and and yet on the open source side there are sure indicators that something happened the entire side of the military headquarters building is black like it was set on fire with a you know the charcoal was burning up against it you know um you may be a little tired of watching Victoria Nuland, but just last Friday, here's what she had to say about the spring offensive. Now, remember, the number three person in the State Department, but also the major domo of all political decisions with respect, and maybe military, I don't know, with respect to Ukraine. Take a listen. And even as you plan for the counteroffensive, which we have been working on with you for some four or five months, we are already beginning our discussions

with the Ukrainian government and with friends in Kyiv, both in the civilian side and on the military side, about Ukraine's long-term future. All right, two things to unpack there. The American government has been working closely and carefully with the government in Kyiv on the spring offensive, and she's stating this in a public venue? What kind of sense does that make, whether it's true or not? No, it's crazy. Of course, General Newland, you know, we remember, was she a graduate of West Point or was it the Naval Academy or Air Force Academy? No, she was a graduate of no military academy, no military experience.

She was at Princeton. She was an undergraduate at Princeton with General Milley, same military experience. She was at Princeton. She was an undergraduate at Princeton with General Milley, same time period. I don't know if they knew each other. They were there at the same time period. This is a generation at Princeton after Sam Alito and I were there. Yeah. So this is a reminder. She is completely inexperienced on that front. But the problem is she thinks she knows what she's talking about. She does have information in terms of what the level of U.S. support is to Ukraine. And for the life of me, I don't know why they feel compelled to divulge this. Right.

Back during when we were supporting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets, it was imperative that we not talk about it in public. And, you know, the Russians knew that we were supporting the Mujahideen, but it was discussed in public. It didn't create this public expectation that would require another government to act. Here she is, you know, tipping off the Russians. Here we come. This is, we're really going to do this. I'm going to play it again. I'd like you to focus on the last

10 words or so of what she says concerning Ukraine's future. Gary. And even as you plan for the counteroffensive, which we have been working on with you for some four or five months, we are already beginning our discussions with the Ukrainian government and with friends in Kyiv, both in the civilian side and on the military side, about Ukraine's long-term future. What is she going to do? Get rid of President Zelensky and reorganize the Ukrainian government for the third time? No. Ukraine does not have a long-term future. That's what's so shocking about what she's talking about. I mean, I guess I suppose it's good to be idealistic and hopeful, but Ukraine does not have a long-term future.

It's lost 50% of its population already through either immigration or being killed or wounded or going over to Russia. So it's not like the population is growing. They've lost at least 20% of the territory. Russia is not giving that back, and Ukraine has no military capability, even with U.S. and NATO backing, to retake any of that territory. They just don't. I want you to take a look at the clip that we have of the bombing on Memorial Day, American Memorial Day, of a high-end residential neighborhood in Moscow, and tell me what you think of this. Gary, if you could run that clip. There we go. I'm going to speak over it. Now, I don't know how

strong that is. We've gotten different estimates from 500 pounds of ordnance down to 30 pounds of ordnance. There's a lot of smoke there. Gary's going to run it again and you'll see a terrifying terrifying red flash at the very beginning, which probably causes fire. So this is a residential neighborhood in Moscow, 10 minutes from President Putin's official residence. This would be like this thing going off in Embassy Row in Washington, D.C., high-end homes, not quite the White House, but not far from it. So do you think, do your sources inform you that this came all the way from Ukraine, which is 600 miles from Moscow, or that it was fired by someone, Ukrainians or anti-Russian Russians from within Russia? And why a residential neighborhood and why honestly next to no damage? Right. Well, my understanding is that this was launched from Ukraine with the

assistance of U.S. NATO intelligence. That's what makes it possible. But the Russians have an effective both electronic warfare capability and missile defense. This one was clearly, in my view, brought down by the electronic warfare capability. It exploded this one was clearly in my view brought down by the electronic warfare capability it exploded harmlessly in the field now the people that were killed and damaged in this are the worms and the ants anybody that was crawling around in that dirt they got roasted but it did not hit any buildings it did not kill any people. And yet, this is a sign of Ukrainian desperation. This was launched, I believe, by Budanov, their head of their intelligence organization. And curiously, he's been pretty silent since that bunker was struck. We don't know if he was killed

or wounded in that strike the other day. Are we safe in concluding that American intel was aware of these attacks before they occurred? And if so, that American government, the Biden administration, whoever's running this stuff, either consented to it or looked the other way? Now, let me take you back to your days as a judge on the bench. When you confronted a suspect with guilty of willful blindness, it didn't matter whether they absolutely knew that it was going to happen. They chose not to know. They could have known, and they averted their eyes at the last minute. Ukraine would not be able to mount these operations without a supply of intelligence

that's coming from NATO in the United States. That's the bottom line. Whether Budenov called up the CIA and said, hey, I'm going to tell you what I'm getting ready to do, doesn't matter. We're aiding and abetting a criminal act. That's what it boils down to. We are poking the bear in his backyard. Almost literally true, Larry. No, this is the American people, because of the luxury we've had of geographic distance, that we're separated by oceans. We're ignoring this war. We've been ignoring it for 10 years now, going on 10 years. The number of civilian casualties that have been caused by the ukrainians launching missile attacks on civilian targets in the donbass russia finally

had enough as pushing back to try to stop that but yet we continue to arm ukraine and in the process note what ukraine is hitting with these drones are not military targets. They're hitting civilian targets. That has been their MO, their method of operation for the last eight, nine years. Why hit civilian targets when it's the Russian military that's coming after them? Well, partly because they're gutless cowards. Number two, their goal is to try to terrify the population in hopes that the popular uprising, public support will erode from the Russian government and force Vladimir Putin from office. I mean, it's a crazy strategy, but that's what they're banking on. It's a weakness.

Go ahead. Here's Admiral Kirby yesterday being asked about this in the White House. Clarify for us again the U.S. policy here, because it says that as a general matter, Ukraine shouldn't strike inside Russia. What exactly does that mean, general matter? And does Ukraine, a country that's been under attack for more than a year, not have a legitimate right to attack its aggressor back on its own territory? We don't tell them where to strike. We don't tell them, you know, where not to strike. We don't tell them how to conduct their operations. We give them equipment. We give them training. We give them advice and counsel. Heck, we even do tabletop exercises with them to help them plan out what they're going to do. But ultimately,

President Zelensky and his military commanders decide what they're going to do from a military perspective, and they decide what they're going to do with the equipment that has been provided to them and that they now own. All that said, we have been very clear that we do not support attacks inside Russia, and we do not enable and we do not encourage attacks inside Russia. And we do not enable and we do not encourage attacks inside Russia. Believable, Larry. John Kirby sounds like the guy that sold Al Capone the machine guns and ammunition for the St. Valentine's Day massacre. Well, I didn't ask him what they were going to do and I didn't tell him what to go do. But, you know but what they do is up to them. Well, we are enabling. They would not be able to do this without the intelligence we provide, without the ammunition

that we provide, without the weapons we provide. So this notion that we're not enabling is just a lie, a blatant lie. Over the weekend, Senator Lindsey Graham met with President Zelensky, the same Senator Lindsey Graham who about a year ago asked the President of the United States to put in motion a plan to assassinate Vladimir Putin. I want you to listen to what Senator Graham had to say to President Zelensky just four days ago. Nice to meet you. We have, I think, a little meeting.

Thank you very much. Thanks, United States people of the United States for all big support. Thank you so much. Free or die. Free or die. Now you are free. Yes. And we will be.

And the Russians are dying. This is the best money we've ever spent. Thank you so much. Russians are dying. Best money we ever spent. How irresponsible is that? No, no, it plumbs the depths of depravity. Graham is, I don't believe he's an unintelligent person. I don't believe that he is an ignorant person. But to be this willfully obtuse and to completely ignore the history of what has transpired, it is, you know, you've got to plumb.

You want to sit him down and say, okay, Lindsay, what is the basis for your visceral hatred of the Russians? And it is because it really, it's not like the Russians have been out conquering the rest of the world. They haven't. We've not had Russia invading other countries like the United States has been over the last 30 years. So why is it that these politicians like Graham insist upon saying things that are going to make it more difficult to reach a diplomatic settlement? The problem here, Judge, is we are not creating any kind of off-ramp that will divert us from a military confrontation. And the bet we're making

is that the United States has a superior military capability to Russia. And my view, and that I think of Doug McGregor and Scott Ritter, is that's not true. The United States is like, and NATO, are likely to suffer a terrible defeat if we decide to try to engage the Russians on this issue. Let me raise your blood pressure a little bit more. Victoria Nuland, five months ago on invading Crimea. There is a drone base in Crimea where the drones that the Iranians have given Russia are being launched from. There are command and control sites in Crimea that are essential for Russia's hold on all of the territory, including the land bridge. There are mass military installations on Crimea that Russia has turned into essential logistics and back office depots for this war. Those are legitimate targets. Ukraine I would think, and you know, I'm a legal guy,

you're the military and intel guy. This is one of the more absurd statements in the entire war that she wants America to support an invasion of Crimea. I mean, Ukraine is about as likely to win back Crimea as Mexico is to win back Arizona or Texas. Well, for a battering ram, it's pretty flaccid. She is ignoring the fact that Russia has ample air defense systems, that Ukraine has not been able to penetrate those systems with any kind of effectiveness or regularity, and that the entire notion that Ukraine has the wherewithal to put a ground force that would actually cross in and take control of the Crimea.

It's sheer madness. But recognize that Ukraine has been at war with the Donbass, the two republics in the Donbass, Donetsk and Luhansk, for the last eight years. And in that eight-year period, the Ukrainian army could not take control of that territory. So how in the name of God are they going to take control of Crimea, where the Russians have been spending the last six months building up earthworks, dragon's teeth, actual fortifications on the ground, zeroing in artillery, putting in both artillery and mortars that will be able to shell advancing troops, as well as air defense systems that could defeat anything that the Ukrainians decided to try to fly towards those lines. Any troops that try to

attack those lines are going to be slaughtered. That's the bottom line. Larry, big picture. Do you think that the mentality of Lindsey Graham, Victoria Nuland, Antony Blinken, Jake Sullivan, and even to a certain extent, President Biden, want to drag NATO into a land war over Ukraine because they somehow think that NATO would win and hope that President Putin would be driven from office. Do they actually think that way? Do we have enough evidence to come to a conclusion that that's more likely than not their objective here? Sure. They're as delusional as Adolf Hitler was in the final days of the bunker. You know, Doug McGregor the other day referenced the movie Downfall,

which is about those final days. And Hitler genuinely believed that he had troops, he could issue orders, that people were going to move here and there. That's the kind of state we're at, but it's not confined to just Joe Biden. It's confined, it includes Victoria Nuland, Jake Sullivan, Anthony Blinken.

It includes people like Lindsey Graham. It is a mass delusion that is set in that they believe that some sort of magical thing is going to happen and that the Russians are going to roll over and curl up into a fetal ball and cry because they've received some opposition. The history of Russia is replete with the Russians facing foreign invaders, which is one of the reasons that Vladimir Putin is reacting as he is with respect to Ukraine trying to become part of NATO and the West ignoring Putin's warnings. Contrast what you observed and so nicely summarized

with the following rather articulate, nuanced, thoughtful statement from Hungarian President Viktor Orban. It's long. It's maybe a minute and three quarters. Absolutely worth listening to, including the last couple of seconds. You made a great deal about 1956 and fighting for freedom. You have a neighbor who was invaded by Russia, the very country. You grew up with pictures of tanks

going into Budapest. Why are you opposing the European aid? No, no. It's emotional. It's tragic. So all of our heart is with the Ukrainians. We understand how much they suffer. But I'm speaking here as a politician who should save lives. The most important thing for the international political communities to save lives, especially when you are convinced, as I do, that there is no chance to win this war. So therefore, what we should do far more energy invest into, to convince everybody that the

only solution is ceasefire. And then after the ceasefire, peace talks should start start and then we could back to your point yeah. Do you really think there is no chance of Ukraine winning? That's my point. Surely the main surely the main they stand very little chance of winning without the aid which you are currently blocking. No no my position is that looking at the reality looking at the figures looking at the surroundings looking at the fact, looking at the figures, looking at the surroundings, looking at the fact that NATO is not ready to send troops, it's obvious that there is no victory for poor Ukrainians on the battlefield.

It is obvious that there is no chance of victory for Ukrainians on the battlefield. I was just blown away with the articulate, thoughtful nature of that. Your thoughts, Larry? Well, he's on the front line, and his country is one of the ones that would be directly affected if war breaks out. And he doesn't want to see any more Hungarians die in what is a futile effort. The fact that the United States continues to try to push towards a war. Now, remember, we have at least two military units, the 101st Airborne and the 82nd Airborne, that are deployed in Poland. I think the 101st is in Poland and the 82nd is currently in Romania. Well, they're over there ostensibly to conduct exercises, et cetera, but the temptation to try

to use those troops, I think it's growing at least within the political circles of the Biden administration, because you've got so many people with no military experience and that they somehow feel that by watching Hollywood movies that they can launch these troops into battle and that they will prevail without any regards to what Russia can do to the United States. Russia has exhibited tremendous patience up to this point, but we can't keep trying to punch it in the nose and have it get punched in the nose on occasion and NBC News are reporting this morning that the government, the prosecutors, have a tape of President Trump discussing at his home in Bedminster, New Jersey, after hespaced, manually typed proposal for the American invasion of Iran, which Trump rejected. The document was allegedly written by and handed to Trump by its author, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley. Now, if he's crazy enough, crazy enough to make a recommendation like that to President Trump, what do you think he's telling

Joe Biden to do with the 101st and the 82nd that are already there? Sure. And you can't discount the possibility that Milley deliberately did that as an attempt to try to set Trump up. But the reality is Donald Trump as president could declassify that. And so he can talk about it and he can share it around because if he declassified it, it's no longer classified. I want you to focus on Milley's mentality because he's still in office. What kind of memos is he sending old joe yeah i've what i've seen so far is he's actually shied away from doing the militarily irresponsible thing that's the good news uh but he's been trying to defuse as opposed to uh get involved with the battle but he hasn't pushed back you know he should have made it uh he said look we're not going to deploy these forces forward into romania and poland um but he's on

his way out now so it really doesn't matter he's not going to light the fuse and then run out the door uh that'll be up to uh charlie brown who's coming in, Charles Brown, his successor, which is, you know, no better news. The incompetence that we've seen with Milley is going to be exacerbated with Brown. As well as the sycophant nature toward this administration. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Larry, always a pleasure, my friend. Thank you for the fascinating news about the intelligence community's relative silence about that bunker being destroyed. One can only hope that NATO and American officers weren't killed, but it sounds like bad news is about to come. We'll talk to you soon, my friend. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you, Judge. Okay. If you like what you saw, thank you very much for watching. Share with your friends. More as we get it. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom.