Judging Freedom - Larry Johnson: Did Trump Cross the Line in Venezuela?

Episode Date: January 3, 2026

Larry Johnson: Did Trump Cross the Line in Venezuela?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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What if that government is best, which governs least? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish fighting for freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Welcome to this special Saturday edition of Judging Freedom. Today is Saturday, January 3rd, 26. Larry Johnson is good enough to join us in light of the events that took place in Venezuela

in Washington and in Florida in the past 48 hours. Larry, no matter what we're talking about, It's always a pleasure to be able to pick your brain. Thank you for making time for us on this Saturday afternoon. It's probably beautiful where you are. It's about 10 degrees here in North New Jersey. But my stomach is churning, Larry, because it appears the neocons have triumphed after all. Well, it's a temporary triumph.

Let me first say, I love your new introduction. That's a great way to start 2026. Thank you. You can thank Chris for that. Yeah, well, it expresses the real purpose of why we talk and why we care. Correct. Look, you remember George W. Bush on the deck of that carrier? Mission accomplished?

Yeah. Remember Jerry Bremmer? We got him! This is just another one of those. This is the early theatrics surrounding a stupid, dangerous, destructive policy by the United States. Yeah, it's easy to launch a Delta Force operation. You know, they were supported by Task Force 160, the helicopters, special helicopters, special pilots specifically trained. They probably actually had some Rangers inserted early to try to ensure that they could get in and get out.

And we can't rule out the possibility that a couple of Maduro's generals were bought off to facilitate the U.S. getting in, getting out with Maduro. But, you know, the notion that this is going to, quote, solve the problems and make, you know, make Venezuela great again. It's just nonsensical. Has Donald Trump just bought for the United States another Vietnam? Well, he's bought himself a tar baby. By his, you know, initially he said, oh, this was a regime change. We're just arresting a criminal overseas. And then, okay, we're going to be running Venezuela until we figure.

out what the government is. So that means this is another new expression of U.S. regime change where we're going to try to control it. Here's the problem with Venezuela. Let's assume that 60, 70 percent of the population of Venezuela support what has been done. They're glad to be rid of Maduro. There's still another 30 percent out there. They've got guns. They've got access to the borders of Brazil and Colombia that are uncontrollable. Look at Colombia. as an example. Colombia has been fighting the FARC. You know, the forces

armed, revolutionaries, Colombianas, since 1964, 61 years, the government of Colombia, with the backing of the United States, with U.S. military special forces, have not been able to contain, kill, or destroy the FARC. They have remained a presence

in Colombia. You're going to see the same thing here in Venezuela. They're going to be no-go areas. And whatever U.S. personnel show up on the ground to, quote, rule Venezuela initially, they're going to have to be heavily protected. And I can't rule out that there's going to be what we will call terrorist attacks. Of course, when my ancestors were doing it to the British back in 1776, we called it fighting for freedom. But, you know, we'll label what the Venezuelans are doing is terrorism because they're fighting a foreign oppressor. But there will be cash. And at that point, Trump's going to be facing the pressure to increase the troop presence, just like we did in Vietnam.

Oh, we've got to increase it. But just a few more bodies and we'll be able to quell this. Venezuela is too large and it's too difficult a terrain to control. Launching a specialized operation in Caracas in the middle of the night, that's one thing. Ruling it day-to-day, mission impossible. How can the United States government possible? run the government of Venezuela, as the president said several times earlier today, we plan to do. Are Pete Megheth and Marco Rubio going to become the co-governors,

of a colonial governors of a sovereign nation that's also a member of the United Nations? Yeah, if they do that, that's going to be the equivalent of putting Cheech and Chong in charge of a pot shop, okay? I mean, for God's sake, you know, they're not even able to run their own departments right now as it is. And yet they're going to quote, govern Venezuela. Look, the issue in Venezuela, it's always going to be the money. The people with the money in Venezuela, they're going to ultimately be calling the shots. Because they have what it takes to hire bodyguards. They have what it takes to higher security.

They will, you know, they'll make a deal with the United States if necessary. But there are those who, if they're not properly taken care of, if the rights aren't respected, you know, they're going to fight back. And this also is going to create a bit of a vacuum that's always filled by some aspiring entrepreneur. The fact that Trump's using the pretext of combating international narcotics. And yet, it was a great moment in this press conference where he's making that line. And one of the reporters said, yeah, but you just pardoned the president, the former president of Honduras, who was convicted for massive amounts of drug trafficking. And Trump, well, that's different. He's our guy. He was persecuted by the Bidens.

You know, and that's what is coming across throughout this entire, it's not just confined to Venezuela, across the board with U.S. foreign policy. We pick and choose when we decide we want to fight narcotics. We've picked and choose when we decide we want to fight terrorism. Because you know what? it can, when it's mutually convenient, we make a deal with the narcos, we make a deal with the terrorists, we back them, we fund them, we help them, as long as they serve our own individual selfish purposes. Here's, uh, the president just a few minutes ago admitting, I think you, you, you can interpret this as you see fit Larry, uh, that he wants the oil. Chris, cut number three.

As everyone knows, the oil business in Venezuela has been a bust, a total bust for a long period time. They were pumping almost nothing by comparison to what they could have been pumping and what could have taken place. We're going to have our very large United States oil companies the biggest anywhere in the world, go in, spend billions of dollars, fix the badly broken infrastructure, the oil infrastructure, and start making money for the country. So in one movement, he has kidnapped the head of state of a sovereign nation, and now he's going to steal the oil, all this under the pretext of fighting drugs. I don't think the American public buys this, Larry.

American public mostly doesn't care, unfortunately. You know, they like to show, oh, we got to see the explosions? Oh, that's nice. And nobody got killed. we don't know how many actually Venezuelans were killed in the process they'll keep that whose care they're they're Venezuelans

they don't matter they're inconsequential and you know I think one thing we cannot rule out that this is the first step in preparation for an attack on Iran to secure the Venezuelan oil as an alternative source in the event that

in the aftermath of an attack on Iran Iran closes the Persian Gulf the Straits of And there is then suddenly an oil crisis. And that puts Venezuela in strong position. But again, the United States, part of the reason the oil industry in Venezuela has suffered has been because of U.S. sanctions and because of U.S. efforts to undermine the government of Nicholas Maduro.

Remember, this entire effort started with Chavez and Maduro is predicated on the fact that they nationalized, they took the oil away. from these foreign companies that were basically exploiting the Venezuelan resource for their own benefit without Venezuela itself benefiting from that oil exploration. So this is what Trump is talking about when he says they stole our oil. It's not American oil. There may be infrastructure there that American oil companies built so they could exploit Venezuela. But the oil is in the ground and it belongs to the country on top of top of the ground.

Yeah, Trump would have been better off stating we're stealing their oil, but because we're bigger, we're going to take it. You know, we're like one of those mafia bosses and, you know, like the Godfather movie. The Don't say this dawn in the early days comes by and just says it takes the dress and takes the woman, takes whatever they want because they want it. That's us, unfortunately. The United States, Trump is dressing this up as if we're fighting terrorists. over fighting narco-traffickers, when in fact, I guarantee you, if Congress conducted a full

investigation, they'd discover that the roots of these so-called narco-terrorists were, in fact, created by my former organization of the CIA. Trump was unable to state a legal basis for what he did, because there is no legal basis under the Constitution, under federal law, under international law, under three treaties, all of which the United States has written up a legal basis. least of which is the U.N. charter. They trumped up charges against him, against Maduro, with the tail end of the first Trump administration. The Biden administration decided they couldn't prove the case, and they decided not to prosecute. Now the Trump administration

engages in this kidnapping. Talk to me about China and the likely reaction in Beijing. Well, we've already, before going there, let's just simply note that the Trump administration is seizing on this loophole. You keep hearing the mantra, well, he was not a legitimate president. He was not legitimately elected. He was an illegitimate president. That's the one caveat in international law that you can hang your hat on that as long as they're not legitimate. But again, it sets the precedent that if we, if we're a particular country and we don't like the ruler and another, we can remove them. Now, Beijing has reacted extremely strongly,

condemned it, you know, very, you know, with very harshly. In fact, Maduro was meeting with, I think, the deputy foreign minister of China about eight hours before he wound up being captured by U.S. forces. So, you know, the Chinese are, you know, viewing this. as another assault by the lawless United States. Russia as well sees this as one more example of the United States, just tossing away international law whenever it serves its purpose. And, you know, the United States in terms retaliates, well, but Russia violated international law by the invading Ukraine.

But the point is, with all of this, is a complete breakdown in the international order that was set up in the United Nations. The United Nations is becoming increasingly irrelevant, and it's going to lead countries like Russia, China, India, and other members of BRICS countries that are now joining with those countries to seek an alternative system that is outside of the UN. The United States has done enormous damage to its reputation. The only ones who are celebrating it are those prostitutes,

also known as countries that are friendly to the United States. They'll take the money, they'll take the benefits, but there is no upholding of any international law now. I wonder what kind of an attitude the Russians will have toward the American government in light of this behavior. I mean, stated differently, why should Vladimir Putin and Sergei Lavrov believe anything that Donald Trump or his emissaries say? Well, I think this actually will lead to a fundamental realignment in what Russia is willing, how they're going to approach the United States going forward, because this comes on the heels of the U.S. attempt to kill Putin.

And, you know, I'm more certain of that. Did you say U.S. attempt to kill Putin? Yes, yes. You know, the notion, I had my doubts. I thought maybe it was the Brits until those articles in the New York Times of Wall Street Journal leaked. And the CIA said, oh, no, there was no attempt to kill Putin. No, no. We were, you know, the Ukrainians were aiming at a military target that was in the vicinity.

Well, how the hell does the CIA know what the Ukrainians were aiming at unless we help them aim? Number one. Number two, the Russians have recovered one of the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, condensers or transistors that it had the targeting information on it as well as the navigational information. They exploited that. It absolutely was aimed at Putin's house. Now, the only question that remains was this of rogue CIA operation without Donald Trump's knowledge or with Donald Trump's knowledge. But you factor that in because remember, the reaction of the Russians to that

event last Sunday, while Trump's meeting with Zelensky in Mara Lago, that attack is launched. And then in the aftermath of that, when we saw Sergei Lovroff's furious reaction accompanied by that of Pescal. And this was in reaction to an attack that didn't kill anybody. So this sent a message that the United States was being duplicitous. Then on top of that, you get the New York Times report. extensively noting that the CIA has either been granted special dispensation or is not subject to Donald Trump's restrictions, and it's been carrying out attacks on refineries. It's been carrying

out attacks on Russian ships. The CIA is out of control, but yet here is Donald Trump praising the CIA for its work and what is done with Maduro. So the Russians are viewing all of this not as separate incidents that are unrelated. It's developing as part of a thing. the United States is lawless. It's going to do whatever it can, regardless of whether it violates international law or not. I saw John Ratcliffe there at Mara Lago this morning. I didn't see Tossey Gabbard, did you?

No, no. And, you know, she's going to have to eat her words now about no regime change. You know, oh, no, we're not doing any engagement regime change. If she had any integrity left, she'd resign in protest. and they come out and tell what's going on, how Trump is lying, how Trump has reversed himself on all the promises he made to the American people about not wanting to be a war president, about wanting to promote peace. You know, here we go.

We are now involved with another foreign war, and I would just simply remind people that, well, this thing was a great success. We didn't lose anybody. Remember, mission accomplished. and then a couple of months later all of a sudden the United States was engaged in a very serious insurgency inside Iraq and we spent 21 years unable to contain the Taliban

so this is now just opened up another black hole that will pour money into I suppose if Beijing decides to seize Taiwan under Donald Trump's theory, we'll just sit back and let them do it. Yeah, well, you can make the case that the United States has now provided a rationale for the Chinese to do exactly that. And then to shove it back in the U.S. Faye said, hey, you know, the Taiwanese were, they were actually, you know, they could manufacture an entire case about how the Taiwanese were smuggling drugs into China,

that they were encouraging insurgent groups. You know, it's easy to manufacture a case like that. And then the Chinese could easily take it. But, you know, again, I don't see the Chinese as wanting to engage militarily that way. I think they've realized they're far better off engaging and destroying the United States economically by using the United States' own leverage against it. So what's next?

a repeat of this in Havana or an Israeli-American attack on Tehran? Well, the first, I mean, that's what we're headed towards an attack on Tehran, without a doubt. That was the result of what happened at the Monday meeting and the launch of a covert action by the United, the CIA and Assad together in Iran, portraying, you know, the Iranian government, massive protest, the government's coming to part at the seams. This is all a narrative being created by the West to justify a new attack on Iran. And we saw Mike Pompeo say it yesterday, the former CIA director and Secretary of State, that these protesters that Mossad agents are walking along beside you.

I mean, what the hell? So the next step here that we need to monitor is how exactly is the U.S. going to quote, run Venezuela, because the Venezuelan government is still intact last I checked. The vice president has assumed power, but they've also got the vice minister of the fence is stepping up. So it's not clear that the United States has any control over the ground, and then you get to the issue of how are you going to move U.S. personnel into Caracas? And, okay, let's say they're seated in the old presidential.

Palace or Maduro's office, who's going to make sure that the trash is picked up? Who's going to make sure that the buses run on time? You know, the actual task of governing of making sure a city works, a system works, you're going to start having, I suspect, there will be, if the Venezuelans are excluded from that, there will be a breakdown on that front. Do we know if American troops are still on the ground in Venezuela, or did they leave when Maduro and his wife were seized? I don't know. I mean, I guarantee you the special operations forces that conducted the

capture mission, they left. They got back on their helicopters and flew off. But I don't know if there were any other forces. There were initial reports that the Marines had landed on some of the beaches. But again, it's one thing to insert a special operations. force, which is its mission is to get in and get out quickly, as opposed to once you establish boots on the ground, then you've got to set up a logistics chain that's going to ensure they got food, they got water, they got ammunition, they got power, and then if they start moving forward, you've got to be able to supply all of that plus fuel. And that's where the complications begin. Not a peep from Congress. For

Republicans have complained that Congress wasn't notified. Don Bacon and Thomas Massey in the House, Lisa Murkowski, and Rand Paul in the Senate, no surprise for many of the four of them. But there's 535 of them. The other 531 haven't said a peep yet. Well, I mean, look, we've got, good Lord, except for the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. And so in the last 55 years, 56 years,

who needs a stinking congressional resolution? So we've gone into Panama without that kind of authorization, attack Panama, which this is similar to that, but it's got a lot more complications than the Panama operation, simply because we had troops already in Panama when that happened. We did it in Iraq, we've done it in Syria, we've done it in Afghanistan. Congress is a spineless group, the jellyfish crowd.

They're not going to stand up and assert their power and authority. They're too afraid. Larry, thank you very much for your time. We'll look forward to seeing you at your usual spot 1130 Eastern on Monday morning. We'll probably know a lot more about this by then, but I do truly appreciate your taking time from Saturday afternoon to join us. Thank you, my dear friend. My pleasure, Judge, and happy New Year. Thank you. Happy New Year to you.

Coming up at 2 o'clock Eastern, Colonel Douglas McGregor, and at 3 o'clock Eastern, Scott Ritter, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.