Judging Freedom - LtCOL. Karen Kwiatkowski : CHARLIE KIRK’S MURDER: Why is Netanyahu Disbelieved?

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

LtCOL. Karen Kwiatkowski : CHARLIE KIRK’S MURDER: Why is Netanyahu Disbelieved?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.ca slash Wondery. That's audible.ca slash wondering. Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Tuesday, November 25th, 2025. Colonel Karen Koukowski joins us now. Colonel Lewis is a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you for joining us. right to this crazy question. You asked about it in a terrific piece that you just posted at Judge Knapp.com on Lou Rockwell.com. Why was Benjamin Netanyahu's denial that Israeli agents murdered Charlie Kirk broadcast internationally before most of the world even knew that Kirk was dead? I mean, it's a good question.

Yeah, I mean, I think that was the takeaway that most people got from that. You know, it's like, you know, we watch a lot of TV. We see a lot of stories out there, and this is just like the story of the guilty guy. You know, oh, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. So, yeah, very interesting. But, you know, what Netanyahu was trying to do, of course, was, I mean, I assume he was legitimately trying to make sure that the world didn't suspect him. But, you know, he's the way he did it actually brought more attention, you know, to him.

And then he did it again. He issued a second denial about two days later, also to an international audience. Yeah. Why do people want to believe this? Is it because Israel under his regime is slaughtering people left and right? Well, a big part of it is, you know, nobody likes Israel these days. And that is because they're slaughtering, you know, they're conducting. a genocide and lying about it.

And, I mean, in fact, it is, it's bad enough that they're doing a genocide, but the constant lies about what they're doing. I mean, even now, we're supposedly, there's a, there's a ceasefire of some sort. I think they've broken it 500 times in 10 days or it's, it's, they lie. So when your reputation is you are a consummate liar, which Israel has earned that Netanyahu has specifically earned it, you know, you know. You've lost the advantage there. If you tell somebody something, of course, they don't believe you.

And the thing that's strange to me is that he doesn't get that. And I think that speaks to the attitudes within Israel. And we've seen it with the polls. You know, they're very, most Israelis, 80, over 80 percent of Israelis, are very supportive of what they're doing. And if they have a complaint, it's that they're not killing Palestinians fast enough. So if you are in a group, and they are in a group, a psychological group that believes this, you're living in a fantasy world, of course, and I think that's why he made that, what I consider to be a public relations mistake. You know, I didn't do it, I didn't do it.

Two days later, no, I really, really, I didn't do it. Yeah. Over the two weekends ago, the Israelis blocked an American surgeon from trying to. to enter Gaza in order to perform a life-saving surgery that had permitted him in twice in the past. He's one of these generous, dedicated people that just goes there with a small team and with the supplies that he needs, but he doesn't charge people line up and they perform the surgery. I mean, under what conceivable theory of morality, law, politics, whatever, would you stop that from happening?

Look, their agenda in Israel, the state of Israel, wants Palestinians gone. They want them erased. And we don't use that word of race in this country. We've done it before to various things. We have that maybe in our history, but we don't use the term erase, but they use the term a race, which is to wipe not just Palestinians out of their world, but to eliminate any memory of them to eliminate any legitimacy of them to they want them gone in every way you can possibly imagine so if that is your shared belief it's netanyahu's belief for sure many in this cabinet

believe this many people in israel unfortunately believe this way but if that's your shared belief why would you save a kid why would you try to heal somebody with that you're going to shoot the next day or the next opportunity there's no reason it's not rational The society itself is very sick right now. Maybe it always has been, but certainly it's on the public stage behaving in a way that the rest of the world really doesn't understand. The only way we can explain modern Israel's attitude towards others, okay, that aren't Israelis. The only way we can explain their attitude is you have a sickness, you have a mental illness. and this is this is what you're dealing with there.

But in their world, of course, why save them? I mean, they actually celebrate the, you know, the two-for-one shot. We saw that early on in this genocide after October 7th, you know, T-shirts showing a pregnant woman shot in the stomach, two-for-one. So this attitude is very inhuman, and I think for Americans, for most Americans and most people around the world, there's no, there is, no morality there. There's no way to make this agreement, this Steve Whitkoff Donald Trump agreement that was ostentatiously signed. Somewhere in Egypt, I don't remember with Cairo or Sharmo Sheikh. Didn't it provide for American guarantees? Aren't there supposedly Americans there? A, to make sure the Israelis have stopped murdering people, and B, to make sure that food and water

and medical supplies and blankets get through. Yeah, that's what they talked about. But, you know, you remember that 20-point plan was really not a plan at all. It was a list of things, you know, an outline. And there were military. There has been military there in a part of, I guess, Eastern Gaza. But I read just the other day, and I don't know if it's true. I haven't checked it out.

But these guys were packing up and, you know, not going to expand that mission. So I don't think you can look at the 20 points, any of them, any of those 20 points, and think that that is a legitimate boundary or a limit or an objective. None of it is being done, not a single bit of it is being done. So, you know, and Israel, you know, they don't want American forces in their region. They're not happy that we're putting troops in just south of Damascus. They are not happy about that. when you have Americans there, it's just like with Colonel Aguilar, who worked for the Gaza

Humanitarian Foundation, that group that was put together and is now left. It's not there either. But for those six months or so, he worked for just a few weeks and spoke out against it, both on the ground in person, where he was told to shut up and support the customer, which was the IDF. That's what he was told. And then he left and, of course, has been on the media. He's done what he can to raise awareness, but the Israelis do not want any of this, this destruction, this genocide, this hatred, this immorality. They don't want any of that looked and observed and recorded through American eyes. We are their best allies. They don't want it recorded through European eyes or any other perspective, but they especially don't want Americans to wake up to what our so-called ally is.

doing what our ally believes, how it behaves, its objectives, because they are solidly rejected in this country. I don't care what party, no party. Americans do not like it. They're disgusted by it. We're seeing that in the polls. And that's really what Israel cares about, how they can shape our opinion. And the best way to do that is to keep American eyes and witnesses out of that area.

Before we segue over to the 28-point plan, because I know you have written about this, as have I, how much longer can the United States government afford to be paying between $970 billion and $1 trillion a year in interest on debt when those interest payments themselves are borrowed? I mean, this is like a Saturday Night Live skit. can't make this up. How much longer can a society afford to keep doing this? Well, you know, we're bankrupt. Okay. United States is financially bankrupt. And you can say, well, it has

resources it can draw upon. Well, it has resources. You can't legally withdraw upon them. You know, it can't take it out of everybody's pockets. It's done that for years, okay, which is why we have no middle class left. But the resources that American, has to pledge for more debt, the debt that it borrows to pay the interest on the past debt. This is running out. And again, you know, when empires end, when they go bankrupt, there's a couple things that can happen. You can get revolution. I don't think that's likely here.

You can get totalitarian type things that could happen. But what you usually get is a war because war allows you to, especially with the right partner, allows you to abandon your debt, repudiate the debt, which is what they'll have to do. Yeah, this is, you know, this country's been living in fantasy land from a financial perspective for quite some time. So I think people have to, I don't know how to fix it. I think people have to prepare for it, though. At some point, people are going to stop lending money to unknown bankrupt, and then the government will collapse. People like Chuck Schumer will be, out of a job and the country will break off into smaller republics.

Well, they will. And you know, we're losing just through demographics. Demographic change is a big thing. That changes whole countries. And we're losing, the baby boomers are adults. They're elderly. They're aging now. They hold most of the wealth. And they are passing away. Okay. And that's just normal. That's life. The leadership will come up, and it'll be a leadership that has been shaped by what we have done. And some of them understand very well what the problem is, like Thomas Massey and any number of what I think to be, you know, free market type people, people who study the state and have contempt for the state in general. I think those people will understand well what's happened. Other people will

be angry. And so we'll be led by people who are, who have, who talk a lot and fight a lot amongst themselves about what to do. And from that chaos, I think will come better solutions. But to expect guys like Schumer, and I'm sorry to say guys like Trump, you know, to expect people in their 70s and 80s who are very comfortable in their political positions to find the solutions. They are the problem. They're not going to find the solution. So I think part of it is we get some new leadership that is a little bit more aware. And then also the other thing I mentioned, I didn't mention, but with war, with revolution, you know, you can get runaway inflation. You can get hyperinflation. You know, we always make jokes about the million dollars Zimbabwe dollars,

you know, and talk about that. But, you know, we're close allies with Argentina. That country's gun broke multiple times. So there are examples out there of what happens. And it's coming. We have invited it in our country by our mismanagement. There's a doctrine in the law called repudiation. And that's when you lend it to an a known bankrupt, you risk repudiation of the debt. This has been going on since World War I. You know, Woodrow Wilson borrowed $30 billion to finance World War I. We have rolled over the principle, but we haven't reduced it.

So we still owe the $30 billion. So far we paid $15 billion in interest, and only the federal government would pay. That's 50%. a 50% interest and still be stuck with the principal. Yeah, it's great. So the government would have to go to court and say, look, everybody knows we're bankrupt, we're not reliable, so repudiate the debt.

And then nobody will ever lend money to the government again. No, they won't. But the other problem with bankruptcy is that they will go after all assets that you have. And they'll go after government. I mean, when countries historically in the, well, even now with the so-called Washington, consensus, you know, we encourage countries, developing countries to borrow. And then when they can't pay it back, we'll lend them a little bit more, just like they do to us now. And then when they still can't pay it back, we take over some of their industries. We buy their resources

below market. You know, we take what they have. So the United States has, you know, we're blessed with a great many wonderful resources, natural resources. We have human resources. We have patent resource. We have all kinds of things that can be valued. In fact, if you look at how DC is, or not DC, but the investment world is looking to financialize almost everything that is good in this country, you know, farmland, free wild space, you know, they want to financialize all of this. And part of that is when we are deemed to be unworthy of future debt and they want to get the money they've loaned us back, that will sell those things. And that will also, break this country up into multiple parts and perhaps cause the revolution.

So there's all these options and they work together, kind of they complement each other. But, yeah, I don't see any answers coming out of Washington. Yeah, the Bolsheviks in 1918 reputed it, reputed all of the czar's debts. And, of course, nobody was able to seize any assets. You were just, you were just stuck. The Tsar was dead. The government was different. The attitude and the ideology was different.

Let's talk about Ukraine. How could something please Zelensky and Putin at the same time? I don't see it happening, do you? Well, it's not happening because there was a 28-point plan. And Zelensky was kind of welcome to think about that, you know, because he said it's either going to be a hard plan or a hard winner, right? So he knows that a choice has to be made. But they didn't like a lot of it.

But in Putin, I think technically, at his, at Putin's level, they haven't commented on it because they see it, I think, as an outline or whatever. But, but then we find, oh, it's only 19 points. We've consolidated and gotten rid of some things. Nobody knows. Nobody's leaked that yet, as far as I know, the 19 points. So what was already a very sketchy and not very well developed set of talking points is now fewer talking points. And, you know, I had a hope and I still have this hope. And I mean, it's not justice, of course, but when Zelensky comes to speak with Trump again, which he's trying to do, I don't know if he'll end up in Washington or well, but he wants to talk about this because he's on one piece.

Really, what he needs is he needs a ticket out. He needs to join his fellow corrupt oligarchs, who, several of which are in Israel now. In the past, others have gone to Israel, which is very interesting because if they take the stolen money to Israel, Israel, I'm sure we'll know what to do with it since they're. you know having some financial difficulties but in any case the what Zelensky needs is a way out peace that requires giving up territory peace that demands never any NATO involvement no NATO troops on his soil that kind of agreement for Zelensky is a bullet in his head okay that's done he cannot if he agrees to that he will not live to see it he won't live three days after that's signed I mean, in his mind, I think he fears this, but I think it's a legitimate fear.

All right. Here's what he said just a few hours ago after meeting with all of his negotiators, negotiators and Abu Dhabi negotiators in Geneva. I don't know if they flew back to Kiev or how we communicated with him. This was this final statement for today, November 25th, 2025. It's only about a minute long. Chris, cut number 14. Today, our delegation returned from Geneva.

after negotiations with the American side and our European partners. And now, the list of necessary steps to end the war can become workable. As of now, after Geneva, there are fewer points, no longer 28. And much of what is right has been taken into account in this framework. There is still work for all of us to do together. It is very difficult to create the final document, and we must do everything with dignity. And we appreciate that most of the world is ready to help us. And the American side is taking a constructive approach.

Ukraine will never be an obstacle to peace. If we are truly ending the war, then there should be no missiles. There should be no massive strikes on Ukraine on our people. This can really be done by those who are truly strong in the world. A lot depends on America. Russia started this war. Russia must end this war. And we are creating the necessary conditions through dialogue with our partners.

McCain started the war, Victoria Newland started the war, the CIA and the MI6 started the word. In fairness to Zelensky, I can't call him President Zelensky. He's not legally the president, but you know what I'm talking about. In fairness to him, that was five minutes long. We edited it down to one minute. We believe we gave a fair representation of what he was saying. So, I mean, he didn't accept or reject the 28 points. He made it sound like there are now fewer points and there are some points on which they agree. He's not going to agree not to enter NATO and he's not going to agree to reduce his military to 50,000 that Foreign Minister Lavrov wants in which they did agree to in 2022. So I just don't know where we're going to go and what happens next.

Putin is, correct me from wrong, Colonel, Putin is in the catbird seat. He is very close to crushing the Ukrainian military. Yep. And, you know, the 600,000 number that was in the original one that was leaked, I guess. That is a very large army for a country that probably is not going to have more than 20 million people. 600,000 manned military is a very good size for Europe. And it's actually, I mean, we have, what, 3 million? And our country is 330 million. So that's a very large army. All of this stuff is poorly, you know, these ideas, they're pushing to get. something done by the holidays. I get that. But I mean, they, Washington. Because really,

what does Putin have to do except continue to roll as he's been doing? And so, yeah, I think when Zelensky, what gets to me or what makes me think of that this might be close to something is Zelensky is now talking about dignity. Okay. And he hasn't, I haven't heard him really talk about that before. Dignity in the accepting of a loss. But when a person talks about dignity, You know what you're talking about dignity for a country? You're talking about dignity for yourself. I'm sorry, that's just how that word works, at least in my mind. So I think that he, his best friends, his financiers have left the country.

There's no place to go but down from here, at least if Zelensky's in place. I think he's planning his escape, which is good because he has been part of the problem, but it's not really Zelensky. He's a frontman. He's our front man. which he had been for a lot. Will the bandarists, will the neo-Nazi, hardcore Ukrainian nationalists, control whoever succeeds him the way they control him?

No, because I think there's going to be a horrendous fight, probably led by the Russians, to exterminate those guys. You know, and among the Ukrainians as well, you know, that's not like, you know, when we talk about Israel, we can say 80% of the population agrees with terrible things, right? When you talk about Ukraine, it's only 20, 25 percent at the very highest that are hardcore banderites that really feel, yeah, we've got to do all this stuff. And the reasons we have to do it as part of a quasi-Nazi Nazi ideology, you know, a supremacy-type

terrible view. But that's not the popular opinion in Ukraine. The Ukrainians who have died, the ones that are being put into the meat grinder, grabbed off the street, the ones who left the country, the millions and millions who left the country never to return, they're not Banderites. And the ones that remain are really victims of that small sector, that small political sector, which, of course, is armed and deadly. So I think they have to, I think, unfortunately, they're going to have to be dealt with. They don't have another front guy to put in charge. And if you try to select one externally, it won't be a band, right? So then you're still going to have this problem.

There's a terrible problem, but this is what you get for meddling, okay? This is what the states in Europe get for meddling in things they don't understand. Correct. Bad ideas over and over and over again. Correct. I'm not going to play it again. It'll drive you crazy and it'll drive the audience crazy. But we played a clip earlier today of Senator McCain addressing what appeared.

to me, a million people in Maidan Square encouraging their revolution, whatever. I don't think he used that word, but encouraging them to topple the government of the popularly elected Victor Yanukovych, who refused to join NATO. That was his sin. He refused to join NATO. And for that, he was chased to Moscow. I think we have to be more humble than we are. We think we know how to run the world.

We do not. Correct. Correct. Karen Koukowski, a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you for your time. A happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. We'll look forward to seeing you next week. Same to you, Judge. Thank you. Thank you. Tomorrow Wednesday, wow, we have a pre- Thanksgiving bonanza for you at 8 in the morning, Gilbert Doctoro at 10 in the morning, Scott Ritter, at 11 in the morning, Max Blumenthal, at 8 in the morning, Max Blumenthal, at 8 in the morning, At 12 noon, Professor Glenn Deeson. At one in the afternoon, you can't make this up. Colonel Douglas McGregor, at two in the afternoon,

Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, at three in the afternoon, Phil Giraldi. At four in the afternoon, Professor John Meersheimer. I'm gonna go get some rest. Just the Paletano for judging freedom. Thank you.