Judging Freedom - LtCOL. Karen Kwiatkowski: Does Trump Lead or Follow?

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

LtCOL. Karen Kwiatkowski: Does Trump Lead or Follow?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Whatever your stage, businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash listen. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, April 29th, 2025. Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski joins us now. Colonel, thank you very much for your time. It's always a pleasure to be with you. What do you think scares Donald Trump?

I don't know I think you know I would like to say my first response would be embarrassment but it turns out he's hard to embarrass he's very hard to embarrass so it's probably not that I think he um I think he wants to be right and and he wants to be told that he's right. So if he's told that he's wrong, he doesn't like that. He reacts badly, whether that's fear or anger. It's kind of in the same category. Is he afraid of the Zionist lobby and the Zionists around him?

I'm torn actually, because some of the things that he does tells me that he actually likes to bully them back. You know the way he hit up Netanyahu with his ongoing secret talks with Iran. That's a bully move and he did it publicly in order to kind of put Netanyahu in his place. You know he knew exactly the impact that that would have. So he has that aspect. But on the other hand, he has been extremely careful or activist in placing so many strong Zionist characters

in his administration. In various places where some of them, you don't even know why you would need particularly to have a Zionist there unless you valued them for, you know, just their service to country or whatever. But, you know, he's placed an awful lot of them on the, however, so did Biden, right? And so did Obama, so I don't know.

I think Trump is on par with Biden in terms of embedding Zionists. Well, let's look at your column from last week and talk about our mutual friend and your former colleague, Colonel Daniel Davis. Now he was to have been appointed, it's not clear to me if it was the National Security Council or the senior staff of Tulsa Gavrid, whatever it is, he's eminently qualified for it by intellect, by temperament, by professional military experience.

He's not a Zionist and he's not a neocon. And they pulled out all the plugs to stop him. Why would Trump have withdrawn that nomination? Actually, it wasn't even a nomination. It didn't require a Senate confirmation. Why would Trump have withdrawn the offer to hire him? Yeah, I'm not sure if it was Trump or Tulsi that did it. Tulsi is a Zionist herself, so maybe she didn't want to fall on her sword on behalf of having a guy like Davis either advising her or on the NSC staff.

I think with dealing with Trump too, I don't know what all is on his plate, but it's very clear that the man has a frenetic schedule. He has an unusual ability to do so many things just one after the other. In a situation like that, it is conceivable. I don't know if this happened, but it's conceivable that he didn't know Dan Davis, and he didn't really hear about it until after it was already pulled. It's not clear how much control or involvement Trump is having in all of these lower level

appointments. And the Congress has a lot of power, and that's who the Zion Zionist lobby called. That's who APEC made the calls to was congressmen and senators to to then put pressure on their friends in the administration to block to eliminate the deputy to Tulsi Gabbard. I would imagine that something of that magnitude would have to be brought before Trump. So they nominate this guy eminently qualified and we both know him. And then the Zionists go wild because he has referred to Netanyahu's behavior as a war crime and what he's doing with the IDF as genocide. And then they pull his name. And then he allows Mike Waltz to hire a woman by the name of Mirav Serin.

Who is Mirav Serin? And why doesn't the public know about her? And why should the public know about her? Yeah, well, they don't know about her because AIPAC doesn't want the public to know about her, and neither does Congress. Her role as the, her newly assigned role is the Israel Iran desk.

And why do we even have an Israel Iran desk? I mean, this is already Presupposing American interests have to do with that particular Coupling and it shouldn't be that way is in the NSC But anyway that aside that's the desk that she has and she has served The Israeli government in the past or I think she has a security experience working for Israel. And then of course, think tank type stuff. And now she's here.

And I'm not saying she's not qualified to do a job at the National Security Council. Her background is, I think, very typical of a lot of the folks that are up there, think tanks, academia, and military. But her military experience is not with the United States military.

And she's also, I believe, a dual citizen, as many American Jews have the opportunity to be. She is, that is a very distinctive aspect of her service to our country. And it went under the radar completely. The Dan Davis thing, it was a whisper that Dan would be the deputy and immediately an onslaught. And it wasn't just like,

oh, we don't think Dan will be good for this. It was personal attacks. It was lies being spread about his positions. And of course you could view his's, you could view his podcast, you could read his record, look at his written material. They chose bits and pieces to tell a story that was untrue about Dan, because above all things, he's an American patriot,

and totally would have been wonderful as Tulsi's deputy. And I think actually the deputy job is something that APEC is concerned about because there's no doubt. If you remember how hard it was for Tulsi to get through the confirmation process, and she's a Zionist, there's no doubt. She is not unwilling to say, I put Israel first. She will say that.

And she still had a tough time. And the reason is, of course, is Tulsi has a great deal of military experience in Iraq. She understands how things work. She's extremely smart and she's extremely grounded. So they don't want somebody like that at the National Security Council. They don't want somebody like that advising Trump as the last voice Trump hears before he makes a national security decision. They do not want that. And in that role, they can, and because they've already kind of injured Tulsi in some ways and tried to kind of put her in a corner, she may be targeted for replacement at some time in this current Trump administration. And if that was the case, they definitely want to have their

guy in place, not Dan Davis. This woman, Merav Saron, is a joint United States Israeli citizen, and she fought for the IDF. And now she supposedly runs whatever the hell this is. What is it? The Iran-Israel desk at the National Security Council. So when Mike Waltz puts all of his advisors around the table so that they can come to a consensus so that Mike can advise the president, this lady with divided loyalties between the United States and Israel, and you can imagine what she thinks about Gaza, is one of them. Yeah. And actually, I don't think they're divided loyalties. I think it's very clear her loyalties are to Israel because most people in this country who are loyal to Israel, they see

loyalty to America as much the same thing. Unlike Americans who don't have, we have a single loyalty, we don't see a secondary citizenship is we don't we just it doesn't apply to most people but for those citizens of Israel United States they really see it as one they see it as one loyalty and that on top of that loyalty the embracing part of that loyalty is to Israel so what you have now with with Merov-Saron in there, you have not just, I would say, an Israeli communication corridor, you have a spy, okay, I'm just going to say that, that's, you know, we've fired people for far less than that, and so we have that, and that must

please Israel very much, but we also have an influencer. On the one hand, the very fact that the people in the National Security Council know that she's a dual citizen, that might actually be enough to temper some of what she says. And in this case, you could say, oh, this is a good thing for Trump because Trump is saying on the surface, I love Israel, look how much I trust Israel, I've got Sarin in there helping us make our policy and he can say that's a plus for me. In fact, she is not to be trusted and I think many of the people at the National Security Council would not trust her. Particularly to make a pro-Americ America position on Israel and Iran, because there's no such, there's no way that you could do that.

Well, to what is Donald Trump loyal? The United States or Israel? Well, it really remains to be seen. I like to think he is loyal to this country. I think he is a secular, I think he is a secular person. And in that sense, he's very different to me than someone like our current ambassador to Israel, Huckabee, who is very much a Christian Zionist.

And his whole worldview and his whole political view and whatever the afterlife is going to be for him is very much framed in secular in in Christian Zionism and you cannot say that about Trump you can't say that about Netanyahu Netanyahu It's not a he's a secular Jew. I Think so the loyalty is not to Israel or something else I think Trump Trump being I think it's he's loyal to Trump and to what he thinks is going to be his legacy. And actually, he will have a legacy, obviously, he's already got a legacy, but I think he's concerned about how it will be. I think he wants to have his legacy be something that he came in big with a lot of promises and he made it happen. I don't know

if he's gonna make it happen. I know that his promise is to be peace. He's funding a war in Yemen. Oh yeah. He's funding a war in Gaza. Yep. And he's funding a war in Ukraine and he claims to be a man of peace. Yeah, yeah. So he is a flawed human being, but I don't think he's driven by religious prescriptions about his policy. I think it does connect to him, his allies, his friends, who he trusts, and again, how it impacts his legacy. Now, how much time does he have to sit and think about his legacy? Like I said, I think it's a very frenetic schedule that he runs, and it's very, whether by personality or by strategy, there's so much going on that a lot of it is left undone.

And plus, we know Trump isn't well informed, particularly in foreign policy. He learned, I think he learned everything he knew about Ukraine between November of 2024 and his last meeting with Zelensky. You know, he did not come in prepared to, he didn't know why the war had started. He didn't understand anything that was going on. So if his depth of knowledge about Israel and Israel's history

may well be just as bereft of content as his Ukraine policy was. So let's hope he's learning. So what does he do? Listen to the people he speaks to last? Well, we always say that about most of the presidents, so I would think that it's true there. Now, with Trump, he has relatives who also influence him. Deep trust of people like Witkoff, but he also has his son, son-in-law, I should say. He has a son. He has a son-in-law and his daughter,

who he very much respects. And she's a converted Jew, and they are Zionists, I mean, both religiously and politically. a converted Jew and they are Zionists, I mean, both religiously and politically. So it's not clear, you know, he's getting a lot of stuff that's not America first. Let's talk about members of Congress. None of them has read or very few have read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

They don't understand the Constitution because they reck with the exception of Thomas Massie and Rand Paul. And once in a while, Mike Lee, they recognize no limits on their own power. What are they loyal to? I think most of them are corrupt. I think APEC has dirt. I think Mossad has dirt on most of them. It's very telling that we haven't heard about the Epstein Island records. They're so protecting of the people that make policy in this country. I think most of them are, I hate to use the word dirtbags, but many of the people that represent us in government are dirtbags. And so you manage them like you do other people who have things to hide who are You know prone to grift

Like to make a good profit like you know like Nancy Pelosi You know you can't say oh Nancy Pelosi's a criminal well She is a criminal, but in her mind. She just likes to make a profit. You know so this is what you're dealing with and I think The This is what you're dealing with. And I think the, and not just Israel, other countries as well, if they can, can work to take advantage of and influence our Congress because Congress has things to hide. Those in Congress who have nothing to hide,

we can count them on the fingers of probably one or two hands. Massey, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, perhaps, some of these guys, they're really out, they're open, they're working for the people of this country. But the rest of them, they need money, they want to have easy reelection campaigns, particularly in the House,

which they have to deal with every two years. They don't want bad stories to be told about them. And look how, look at the way they attacked Dan Davis. How did they do that? Well, they made up a bunch of stories and rumors and whisper campaign stuff, planted it in every one of the friendly media, which is all mainstream media serving New York and Washington and beyond, and planted these stories and asked these questions and made

it sound like he was some sort of, that he wasn't what he was, which is a highly decorated, experienced military officer, retired, who is incredibly balanced and reasonable and wise. Exactly, exactly what we would want as the deputy to Tulsi Gabbard. Chris, put up the full screen that you just texted me about. So this is from Kelly Vlejos. This morning, my friend Daniel Davis was smeared by Jewish insider, Mark Levin and Laura Loomer. And this afternoon he was dropped from consideration

working with Tulsi. They got what they wanted, but this is the Trump administration's loss. So, you're still there, Karen? Yes, yes, I see that, yes. No, this is exactly what it is and also Mark Levine or Levin, you know I knew you know has a radio show and I guess it's broadcast all over the place and sometimes When I'm listening to the radio around here, I can't get away from it and

He is remarkably Manipulativeulative of really conservative thinking. Because he is conservative. He writes a lot of these silly books on the Constitution. Well, I mean, I don't know what you think, Judge, because you know the Constitution better than anybody. But Levin writes these books trying to say that.

I am not a fan of Mr. Levin, and I'm sure he's not a fan of mine. No, but you know the Constitution. And he simplifies it or tries to kind of, you know, sell books and have like a shtick and everything and that's great. But when it comes to Israel, of course, all of that is thrown out of the window and any normal listener can get that if they listen to his show on any regularity. And I think that actually makes him less popular

because so many people in this country understand exactly the harm that a pro-Israel, an Israel first policy has done to our country. Not just in the past 40, 50 years, but today. Let me ask you one or two more questions about Trump. Does he share Netanyahu's vision of a greater Israel? You know, from the river to the sea, from Damascus to Cairo? Well, he seems to in his language, and I don't think Trump has paid much attention to the historical record. I don't mean the ancient historical record.

I mean the lines of demarcations after the 1967 war. I don't think Trump understands why they call huge swaths of Palestine occupied territory. I don't think Trump understands why they use that term. He just accepts it, occupied territory. Oh, it's not occupied, it's Israel. Well, actually it is occupied. The whole world knows it and a lot of work was committed to establish something that might work. His understanding of a two-state solution, of course the United States has never been serious because our policy about Israel and Palestine is written by the

Israelis and has been for all these years. But I don't think Trump is that familiar with it. And if to the extent that he would have been exposed to it in his previous lives, it would have been a very pro-Israel storyline. And I think with Trump, if it's comfortable, if it's working, he's not going to deal with it. He's going to go on to something that he wants to change or fix. So in many ways, Trump probably thinks what he has been told is working in Israel. And it's not. It's not working. And if he had just two minutes to open his eyes, he would see that this war, this genocide, is not just isolating Israel, but it's destroying Israel politically and societally from within. You know, they're drafting people now to send them to do what? You know, people aren't showing up, they're not responding, they don't want to fight in the IDF.

It's not the world's most moral army. And I think even Trump has kind of started to figure this out. So, but I don't think he came prepared. And this is a real problem because we, the people, don't pay close attention to what's influencing our foreign policy. We just don't pay attention to it. And then we're surprised when it goes south.

I'm gonna play a clip for you of our friend Medea Benjamin confronting Itamar Ben Gavir on Capitol Hill just a few minutes ago. Chris, cut number three. You killed baby! You killed baby! You killed baby! You are a nation! You are a baby. You are a racist. You are a war criminal.

You are a war criminal. You are a war criminal. You abuse hatred. You are a racist. You are a war criminal. You are hurting people. You are hurting my religion. my religion as a Jew. You are creating the anti-Semitism.

I never supported 9-11. Baby killer, extremist, racist, and criminal. A global genocide. Get out of our house. We don't want you here. That's amazing. When he walked through Wall Street yesterday, the same thing happened except they shouted at him in Hebrew rather than in English. I don't know what he's doing here.

He's probably reminding members of Congress of their debt to AIPAC. Yeah, and also American Jews, who are very much in many ways harmed greatly by what Israel is doing, because nobody likes that genocide. People are increasingly becoming aware of how Israel is behaving and what they're doing. And so American Jews are bearing a brunt of this

because they are a minority in this country. And Americans, we only pay attention to the headlines. So guess what? The headlines are bad for Israel and they show Israel is creating and making these problems. This is him in lower Manhattan yesterday. These folks are shouting in Hebrew

and the cops are just keeping them apart. But what is he doing? Why is he parading through the streets with his big belly like that? Yeah, well, I think the Israeli government is in big trouble. I mean Netanyahu himself is in trouble. The alliance or their political alliance is in trouble in so many ways. Israelis are tired of war. They realize, see, better than Americans do, Israel and the citizens of Israel understand that this war in Gaza has been lost.

They've known this for a long time. They understand that their boys and their girls who are mandated to serve in the IDF are being ethically and mentally ruined in many ways by what they are having to do. They understand their country and their economy has been isolated precisely because of what their government is doing and really what they supported

their government in doing, but many of them are realizing it's enough, it was wrong, it's a mistake and we have not prevailed. So we need a new path. That's what the Israelis are saying. Americans were not paying close attention to that. But I'm sure these guys are in Washington to get money, to get money and to reassure maybe some

of their American donors because a good much of the, it's not just the taxpayer collection that we make every year of four billion dollars to Israel. There is a huge billions of dollars is sent to Israel by loyal Jews. I shouldn't say loyal Jews, but Jews that believe in Israel, that maybe believe in Zionism, and that money is donated back. So I'm sure that this money is drying up. And of course, we know their Israeli shipping has been paralyzed for really since the duration of this genocide in Palestine. So big problems in Israel.

And it's interesting that he's here. And it's also interesting that we're hearing publicly the complaints, the very valid complaints that Americans have against the government of Israel. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before, ever. Well, the government of Israel is collapsing and the Israelis are miserable. And it's probably going to come to a head soon. Karen Kwiatkowski, always a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you very much for joining us.

We look forward to picking your brain and reading one of your columns. Colonel Kwiatkowski's column is at JudgeNap.com and elsewhere. We'll look forward to it again next week. Thank you, Karen. Absolutely, Judge. Thank you. Of course. Coming up at four o'clock from Moscow, I don't know what time that'll be in Moscow, maybe 11 o'clock at night. Professor Jeffrey Sachs, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. You