Judging Freedom - LtCOL. Karen Kwiatkowski - When Israel Attacked the US

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

LtCOL. Karen Kwiatkowski - When Israel Attacked the USSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Pragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? if Jefferson was right? What if that government is best which governs least? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish fighting for

freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Tuesday, June 9th, 2006. My dear friend, Colonel Karen Kutkowski, joins us now. Colonel, on June 8, 1967, the Israeli military attacked the American ship, USS Liberty. here is what the great Congressman Thomas Massey had to say about that yesterday at noon on the floor of the House of Representatives. They launched four torpedoes. One of them hit the hall of the USS Liberty and killed 25 people instantly.

It blew a 40 foot by 40 foot hole in the side of this ship. They were intent on sinking it. But they were also intent on not having a single survivor. according to eyewitness accounts, the Israelis machine gunned the lifeboats that they put down. They machine gunned the firefighters who were on the deck.

They were bringing the wounded and the dead to the mess hall to triage them. They had one doctor who was trying to help them all, put a few stitches in. It was harrowing, and it's amazing. If not for that crew, that boat would have sunk that day.

But it still wasn't over. Helicopters showed up. Combat helicopters. And the USS Liberty, even though their signals were being jammed by the Israelis, got a signal out. And there were ships that tried to respond. The USS Saratoga, the USS America, sent planes. Both of them sent planes to help the USS Liberty. And something happened that's never happened before. A ship under attack, the planes were recalled. This has never happened before. And they sat there for 17 hours. You know, the official reports say that it was a case of mistaken identity.

But if you listen to Dean Rusk, former Secretary of State, Richard Helm, CIA director, Bobby Ray Enman, head of the NSA, Captain Ward Boston, who was the chief counsel of the Court of Inquiry, If you listen to Admiral Moore, who served in Pearl Harbor, Midway, commanded both the Atlantic and Pacific Fleet and was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, none of these distinguished men think this was an accident. They think it was intentional murder by the country of Israel, either as a false flag operation or because they simply didn't want anybody observing what they were doing that day. What is the U.S. government official version of this? And isn't it a felony to lie in these official government reports? Yeah. Well, the official version is that, you know, mistaken identity, didn't realize it was an American ship. I mean, it's almost too ludicrous to imagine how inadequate that official explicitly.

is. And the people that signed on to that and intimidated, intimidated the crew members for years and the Admiral Moore and Boston and a lot of these guys. These government officials insisting on a false story as being the official story, nobody was guilty. It was just a terrible mistake, an accident. Those guys are all lying and they're all government officials appointed or elected. And, you know, This is, well, I should say, there were some generals that went along with it. You know, McCain's dad did. John McCain's father, Admiral McCain, went along with it. And so I don't think that says much for the McCain legacy. But, yeah, what Massey is talking about is extremely well documented and has been really from the beginning. although many of the survivors were on a band from speaking about it for over 20 years in some cases. They would be sent to Leavenworth.

They would be arrested if they spoke of what they saw. That's how intent the U.S. government has been in silencing the witnesses and promoting a false story. Because if the truth comes out and had it come out at any time and it eventually did, you know, This is our best ally. This is the military that we would like to integrate into our own military. This is the military that we want to integrate into our acquisition systems and our intelligence systems. This is the military that we want to fund literally in its entirety. So, yeah, I guess we can't have any bad press about how they treat us.

Wow. Moving over to Iran, why do you think Iran is willing to risk war with the United States? and Israel in order to try and keep Lebanon safe? Well, for the Iranians, they have pinpointed and illustrated the problem in the Middle East. And it's the same country we're just talking about, unfortunately. You know, Israel is on a wartime footing 24-7, and it is backed by what used to be the most powerful military on the planet. That's the United States, four years, financially backed, politically backed,

militarily backed by them. So it's part of our Middle East colonial project. It's part of how we access power and leverage our power in the Middle East. And it's kind of out of control. It's weakened. And I'll tell you what, how they can do it, how are they so bold to do it? Two reasons. One, the Iranians aren't going anywhere. This is their country they're defending. And beyond that, it's their region that they're defending. They're not defending an empire of lackeys. You know, that's our job. That's what we're doing. And you know how over time things shift and change? Well, our empire has been fragmenting and weakening for many decades. And Iran has suffered greatly from, you know, all the things that, you know, no trade and periodic wars and yada, yada,

internal problems, but they are on the rise now. They are not, they have actually strengthened themselves and become, they've actually, they've actually put Iran first, much as Trump promised, you know, when Iran couldn't trade and couldn't get parts and couldn't get technology, they grew it at home. They began to develop their capabilities to become economically and technologically independent. They also made friends that could help them. The United States, on the other hand, we have trade outsourced everything. And part of the Trump revolution, if you want to call it that, the MAGA movement, was to stop being so dependent on the rest of the world. But what we did is we kept the money in D.C. And we kept the printing press in D.C. And products, good, services,

most stuff, we outsourced that. We became dependent on other countries. And we lost our core ability to do things for ourselves, which again is Americans knew that. They sent debt. They felt that and they, you know, responded to Donald Trump's messaging, which was we're going to rebuild America's core strengths. And, you know, our economy will produce things again. This was something many Americans wanted because they saw it slipping away. So the whole world's watching. I mean stronger. Our empire is fragmenting. Now it's the time to strike. They are equal to us. They are equal to us now in capability. It's a bitter or delicious, wherever you want to look at irony, that our attacks on Iran have made it stronger.

Yeah. Yep. Yep. That's exactly right. And unified a people heretofore divided over what kind of a government they wanted. Yeah, it's true. And it's not like, you know, the Iranian government is particularly a great government. You know, it's not, you know, that government has problems.

and they have dealt with, you know, lack of foreign investment. You know, a lot of things have caused the government not to be able to deliver what people expect their governments to deliver. It's not perfect. But they have worked hard. The people have worked hard. They've suffered together. You know, there's something that we do, you know, when we take our military people in and put them in boot camp, part of what we're making them do is making them suffer together.

Because somehow when you kind of suffer together, you form a better team. And I think inadvertently, we have done that. Our policies and European policies have caused that to happen in Iran. But the other problem is when you attack a country, even a country that's not unified, you can have a, what happens? They immediately unify. And 9-11, whether that was a false flag or an actual event that just happened because a bunch of guys said, let's do this thing. whatever it was, it certainly silenced the bickering in this country and unified people behind George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, and they were immediately supported and activated and really loved for what they were doing.

They were going to go hit the guys that did it. Well, hit the guys that were sheltering the guys that did it in Afghanistan, whatever. And then Iraq, they made up a story. Well, Iraq did it too. We're going to do them. Now, that was a betrayal. but our response, just like any country's response, when you are attacked, is you drop your bickering and you unify as a country. So that's common knowledge. Everybody knows it happens. But apparently, I guess

in American foreign policy, and we don't believe it happens to places like Iran, which the government was supposed to fall and the people would build a new government in three days. Nuts. The Iranians recently changed their military protocol, which is no longer to wait for the threats from Israel and the United States to be carried out and to respond not necessarily proportionately, but more heavily than the attack on it. What is the military significance of such a change? Well, it reflects their confidence and capability. it reflects their awareness that we're kind of worn out. The U.S. anyway, is kind of worn out. It shows that they're willing to take the risk of a nuclear response

from either Israel or the United States. Because when you hit a country, when it's weak and it's already angry and it doesn't like being hit, that's us now. That's not us hitting them. That's them hitting us. And we're in a state of leadership weakness and readiness weakness. So, you know, there's a risk there. But I think maybe what's happening, what has happened in Iran, not just the unification of the populace against Israel, against Israel's benefactor, which is us.

I think they are seeing this as an opportunity that, not so much an opportunity that will never come again, but a real opportunity for change in the Middle East and a real opportunity to really contain Israel. And why do we need to contain Israel? We don't need to. We wouldn't need to, except for Israel has espoused a greater Israel program in intellectual terms. And then they have started to achieve that by invading, killing Muslims and Arabs and others in the region and taking their property. And what we're seeing in the West Bank has been, they've reignited settler violence in the West Bank. the government is in fact I think Ben Gavir again said you know get arms get some training in arms you need these weapons it's not just for defense it's to take the rest of the occupied territories and beyond to kind of fulfill this vision now that vision is a political vision okay it's not it's not religious it is a political desire and Israel's willing to kill to the last American to get that thing happening to make it happen And I think the Iranians recognize that.

And I think they see this as, you know, let's nip this in the bud. Now's our time to do it. And they're willing to take the risk. And I think this is what we also underestimated about what it means to live under sanctions and public ridicule and distrust for 47 years. You know, the Iranians are well-educated people, highly educated. They have more women PhDs, I think, in there than probably we do. I could be wrong on that.

But they are intellectually are equal, as far as the United States, maybe are superior in terms of a population. So they are able to make a judgment call. They are able to understand the history of the region, their own history. Look at what's happening to the American Empire. They're not stupid. Okay. So I think they're weighing the risk. I think the people themselves are weighing the risk.

Because if you look at what they're saying in the street in Iran, they are saying, take action. We're going to be here for the government. We want punishment for Israel. We want to contain Israel. We want Israel to lay off Lebanese, lay off the Yemenis, lay off the Ghazans, and leave the occupied territories to the Palestinians instead of trying to conduct a second Nakhva. So that's what they're saying. And they're saying that as a group.

And I'll tell you, when people go out. into the streets and they share a view. We saw this in Albania. You know, the people in Albania who rioted and shut down the cities for a couple weeks, they ended up eliminating, not eliminating, but denying the project that Kushner and the UAE and Saudi Arabia and others had funded to take over, you know, an island that is situated in some, in a nature area or whatever. So, When the people want something, governments really have to listen because the government of Albania didn't want that deal badly. Is that Kersner deal now stopped? The deal is stopped.

However, I believe they had sold the land already. That was done kind of under the radar before the people became aware of what was happening. So I've heard that the land itself, the island itself may be possessed by, may have been sold off by the government, not sure, but the development project that was going to go there, apparently is stopped. And the person who said that is the guy that made the deal initially, but he isn't elected the prime minister or president of Albania. I'm not sure which. And he's in big trouble himself from the people. They're extremely upset at him. They think that he's a corrupt guy who profited by dealing with some of these elites and selling the land and entering into this project that was very unpopular. So he publicly said a few days ago, no, the project's

So he could be lying, but I'm telling you, this is the power of the people. Politicians fear the people. And even this happens even in Iran. Can Netanyahu defy Trump? Can Trump defy? I know you want this question. Can Trump defy Netanyahu? And before you answer, here is the prime minister in the Knesset on Sunday night, number seven, Chris.

A prime minister in Israel must have one specific essential ability. Just one single ability. And if he lacks this fundamental quality, then he simply cannot be here in this position. He needs to be able to say one word to the president of the United States, and that word is no. No. Yeah.

I'm told that the word for no in Hebrew was not no, but he made sure that he said it in Hebrew in English. Who controls who? Who can defy? Who? Yeah. Well, clearly Netanyahu can defy Trump, okay? We've seen that multiple times. Netanyahu can defy Trump. So that gives him a point for being able to defy Trump. The other problem is, of course, Trump is so unpredictable and he says three different things in the space of three minutes. So defying him is less meaningful than it would be defying a president who had a consistent set of

set of policies. So, but clearly Netanyahu can defy Trump. Trump, I think, has the presidential power, you know, the power of the office to certainly cut ties from Israel. There are so many reasons we could do that, and we don't have to go back to 1967 in the attack on the USS Liberty. That's probably when it should have happened, but of course it didn't. But, you know, we have, you know, they have nuclear weapons undeclared. They're not members of the NPT. We should not be legally, we can't give them aid, okay, under those conditions. We don't provide military aid to nuclear countries that are not part of the NPT. Just don't do it. They have, they are the most aggressive nation to spy on us, which is something that, of course, you know, we constantly hear

about it. And last week there was another report saying that they're just incessant with their spying on the United States of America. We also have the blackmail, issues of blackmail. That is a crime. It is a crime. You know, I mean, like if you try to blackmail somebody for profit or for benefit, well, you're the judge, I thought that's a crime. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Maybe it's no. No, you're not wrong at all. It is a crime to blackmail. Of course it's a crime to blackmail. But it's a crime to murder. Countries do this all the time. Remember that a line from, from Voltaire. Murder is wrong and murderers are punished. unless they do it in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets blaring.

That's exactly right. And yes, that's an observation throughout history. Yeah. So yeah, the murder part we haven't even got to. But the reason I'm bringing up more mundane legal reasons that we can really stop aiding Israel, like the NPT and the black, use of blackmail, they're conducting spying on us, other things like that, is those are things most Americans can probably agree on. And we start to say Israel is murdering Ghazans.

Well, only 75% of Americans, maybe 80% of Americans believe that that's what they're doing. 20% say, no, no, they're not doing that. So then we have the left, right, or the pro-Israel, anti-Zionist, pro-Zionist divisions. And then there's name calling in the frontal cortex stops, you know, operating. There's no thinking after that. So I'm bringing up stuff that I think Congress can clearly, recognize is we should not be helping Israel. And the president himself as a human being who, in Trump's own words, you know, I use my own moral compass. Okay, Trump, you know, tune up your

moral compass and take action here because he can do it. And they're not willing to do it. So that means who runs who? Well, Trump's not willing to say no to Israel, but Israel is willing to say no to the United States. And the other thing that people say or a criticism of that is that it's It's all drama. It's all for show. It's all a theatrical performance, depending on who needs to be able to say that they are independent of the other. Well, when Netanyahu stopped the invasion of Lebanon for a day, he was attacked viciously from the right amongst Israeli politicians. Yes, of course. Of course, yeah, because they don't want their president to, or their prime minister to be a puppet of the American president.

So there is that. And plus, you know, we don't pay huge attention to the internal politics of other countries, but, you know, the Kinescent is probably going to dissolve, and they're going to get a new prime minister. And there is a political battle. And, you know, we were paying attention to the whole Los Angeles mayor's race, right? The personal attacks and the demonization of each other and the corruption in the election, apparently.

But, you know, we're paying attention to L.A.'s politics, and we don't really pay attention to Israel's politics. It's not the 51st state yet. And, you know, we don't know what's going on there, but what is going on there is a huge amount of political maneuvering to make sure that the murderous factions, the most murderous factions of Israeli politics, will prevail.

Because people are mad. not just at Netanyahu, but they're mad about the war that are the wars that Israel is fighting right now that are not being won decisively, and they're extremely upset that they have been hit by Iranian missiles. They don't like it. They want it to stop. And when you look at it that way, I think many in Israel would be happy to simply have their businesses reopen, simply have their restaurants operational and just, you know, why don't we just have a little less space in a better economy, right? We don't need to do this Greater Israel thing today or tomorrow. You can always do it next. So this is the battle. I think you've got the ones who say greater Israel needs to be accomplished now

while we have opportunity while the Americans still support and supply us, okay? Or maybe just, you know, they're just as racist on the left for the most part in Israel, but maybe they say, let's put Israel first, not greater Israel. Why don't we just put the Israel that we live in, us, nine million, and let's see if we can make that better and safer. So that's the political battle going on in the Kinesit. And we're not paying close attention to that. You know, we just think Bibi Netanyahu is the freaking king of Israel,

which is, I think, what he thinks is well. Wow. Karen, thank you very much. Great conversation, as always. And as always, deeply appreciated by the audience and by me, All the best, you, my friend. Same to you, Judge. Thank you. Sure. Bye-bye.

Tomorrow Wednesday, at 8 in the morning, Gilbert Doctoro, at 10 in the morning, Aaron Mate, at 2 in the afternoon after his vacation, Professor Glenn Deeson, at 3 in the afternoon, the great Phil Giraldi. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.