Judging Freedom - Matt Hoh: Assange To Be Set FREE!

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Matt Hoh: Assange To Be Set FREE!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, June 25th, 2024. Our dear friend Matt Ho joins us now. Matt, it's a pleasure. When I learned this morning to my surprise, I guess it was last night, to my surprise that Julian Assange has been freed, the first person I thought of was you. And of course, we began texting back and forth and you actually got me a copy of the official document filed with the court by which the terms of his freedom have been set forth in writing and to be approved by a federal judge. A federal judge, by the way, in a place I never even knew we had federal judges, and I thought I knew this stuff, the Mariana Islands. And I told you that I was ecstatic that he was freed, but very unhappy that the government got its pound of flesh because the condition of his freedom is pleading guilty to a crime that is not a crime, therefore a crime that he didn't commit. I think you probably agree. Yeah, certainly, Judge, and thanks for having

me on. And I think it's fitting that the judge who is adjudicating this is in the Mariana Islands, which in Saipan, which I think most of us had no clue we had a district court there. And it's fitting because it shows the extent of the American empire. So he should be, I mean, if this thing has any type of literary aspect to it or theatrical quality, which it does, it's fitting that this is taking place in an outpost of the American empire. My feelings as well, Judge, the mixed feelings on this. Like I said to one of his family members, to one of Julian's family members last night, part of me is so happy I might cry. Part of me is so angry. I might put a hole in a wall in my house, you know, the fact that he has had to endure this, his family has had to

endure this, this prosecution, this persecution, this punishment for more than 12 years. It was 12 years ago that Julian went into, you know, went into the Ecuadorian embassy in London to seek protection from what was potentially an American extradition under the Obama administration. There's the trumped up charges against him of sexual assault in Sweden, which we all now understand and all know as bogus, as false, as being nothing more than a effort to imperil him and put him in a position where he could be extradited. The latest development in that and this bogus sexual assault charges is that the UK Parliament is now initiating an investigation into the Crown Prosecution Service for its role in that fraud, in that smear, in those falsehoods that forced Julian to go into the protective custody, basically, of the Ecuadorian embassy for seven years. And then, of course, these last five years, he has been in Belmarsh prison in ungodly conditions that have wrecked him mentally, physically, spiritually. And so this relief for him and his family of finally being set free,

we should, of course, be careful because the hearing in front of the U.S. judge in Saipan doesn't occur for another five and a half hours or so. And so I think we all have a bit of trepidation that maybe this won't go through. But the relief that we feel, the relief that is being provided to Julian, to Stella, to their children, to the family of his finally being released from this cruel and vindictive punishment is, of course, balanced, as we were saying, who has been confined unjustly and barbarically for exposing the crimes of the empire, for exposing the war crimes of the American military machines, you know, throughout the greater Middle East. And I think on top of that, we are also all cognizant that this doesn't mean it ends, that this is not, you know, this does not end the U.S. government's attempt to suppress journalism. It doesn't end the U.S. government's attempts to, you know, continue to, their assaults on our First Amendment rights on a free press will continue.

Do you think that what happened to him, even though it doesn't end in a long prison sentence, will have a chilling effect on, and here he is, you're going to look at him now. He looks pretty good. You'll see a closeup in a minute. He looks pretty happy as he's about to land in Bangkok. This tape is very, very recent. We might be among the first to air it. There he is. Do you think this whole experience obviously concocted either to destroy him

or if they couldn't destroy him, to have a chilling effect on him and on others? Do you think that part succeeded by the American government? Yeah, I think with these images of Julian we're seeing, we have to remember just the adrenaline that must be going through him right now. And so any of us who have chronic health issues or know people with chronic health issues, we all know how we can kind of get through something or we can be buoyed. I mean,

so what we're seeing is him in the moment of his release, when the adrenaline is there, when the endorphins are high, when, when, when things are good, what it's going to look like in a couple of days when that wears off, of course. But, um, I think, uh, the, the question judge of, of, of, of can you repeat the questions? I'm sorry. I got tied up thinking about Julian. Sure, sure, sure. Do you think his experience, as horrific as it is, will have a chilling effect on other journalists who might have sources willing to give them stolen but confidential material

highly of interest to the public about what the government has done. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We know that's the case. A friend, Misty Winston, she puts it very clearly. Julian's head has been on a pike for the last 12 years. He has served as a warning to other journalists. If you expose the war crimes, if you humiliate and embarrass the American government, if you tell the war crimes, if you humiliate and embarrass the American government, if you tell the world the truth about the American empire, this is what will happen to you. I mean, so Julian was denied freedom for 12 years. His family was denied his presence for 12 years without any form of adjudication, without any form of judicial process, without any form of due process. And so that is still available because there has been no ending to what the government has

been attempting here. The thesis of the American government that they can go anywhere in the world and prosecute and persecute and detain and hold any journalist because a journalist does something that the American government doesn't like, that thesis hasn't been proven untrue. There's no court has said the American government was wrong in this. If anything, you have this issue of Julian having a conviction under the Espionage Act for obtaining and disclosing classified information. I mean, so in effect, you have this aspect, and yes, I know it's a plea deal, but this aspect of a precedent, if you will,

and I know that's not exactly the case, but in the minds of the American government, in the hearts and soul of the American empire, this is a win for them because this further criminalizes journalism. So absolutely, this has a chilling effect. We know, and we talk about this a lot judge right how it's not just the first amendment that's at stake here it's the fourth

amendment as well and we know this with the case of say ed snowden what ed revealed in terms of allowing us to understand how much our government spies on everyone how much are government spies on everyone? How much are government spies on everything? How we live in a surveillance state? And that's not hyperbole. We know because there have been studies done, there's been polls done of journalists who since, say, 2012, when Ed Snowden came forward with his revelations, as well as then, of course, with Julian being chased into the Ecuadorian embassy that same year, you have, or maybe it was 2013 when Ed came forward, you have journalists who have said clearly, this has had a chilling effect on us. They are self-censoring. They are being selective in who they speak to in a manner that didn't exist prior to, one, this persecution and prosecution and punishment of Julian, as well as, two, this knowledge of how the government, through the CIA, the NSA, the FBI, are able to observe everything we do. And so that combined assault on both the First Amendment and the Fourth Amendment, putting Julian's head on a

pike, if you will. I can't imagine how that hasn't happened. Let me just interrupt you for a second. There he is. This is a day old, but there he is in front of the old Bailey. You've been there. This is provided to us by his friend J.R. Bradbury, who's been on this show with us. There he is. I don't know if there was an appearance before a magistrate in the old bail. I'm going to assume there was, because technically when he was released from Belmarsh, they had to secure a bail, theoretically, to secure his return. So some magistrate had to set bail. Whatever it was, it was probably nominal. The family posted it, and he walked into the courtroom in chains, but out of the courtroom as a free man, then to Stansted Airport, and then one or two more stops, I believe, before he landed in Bangkok. He's either in

Bangkok now or on his way to the Mariana Islands. Did you get to know him personally throughout any of this? I interviewed him when he was still free and when I had my show on Fox, so this must have been before 2012. This must have been 14 years ago, but I never met him in person. I only met him once in person, and that was 2014 in the Ecuadorian embassy, November 2014. When he was confined there, you meant? When he was confined there. And at that point, roughly two and a half years after he went into the custody of the embassy for his protection, I remember thinking, my God, this has been going on for two and a half years. What is this doing to him? essentially in a small, essentially a three-bedroom apartment with the constant surveillance,

the constant harassment, the constant deprivation, the effect it was having on him. So that's the extent of my direct personal interaction with him. I mean, I know Stella and I know other members. Is that poster behind you going to stay there? I might modify it. If anything, maybe I'll finally go around and get some non-glare glass on there. I'm waving at myself in the glare of your poster. Right, right. the glare of your poster right right so i mean people you know i i i don't know what with our place let's let's let's see him fully freed and at home with his family but at the same time too

i think his case uh as we were saying before uh what this means going forward it's all still open uh this is not ended so even just as to serve as a reminder, even if Julian is free, his the punishment he endured, the confinement that he endured, what his family went through, that serves that should serve and stay with us as a reminder of what the American government is capable of, what they will do. Again, they see this as not a done deal. No one in the Justice Department, no one at the National Security Council, no one at the CIA or FBI, or certainly no one in the White House is saying, oh, okay, let's pull it all back now. There's not this afternoon in the West Wing rereading of the Bill of Rights or anything like that. I would imagine that this had to go certainly to the attorney general and maybe even to the to the president himself before they entered into an agreement like that, particularly this critical week for the president debating his predecessor and probably his successor on Thursday night. I want to add that- I'll say what we should be pushing now for is a pardon. We should be pushing now for a pardon.

Well, of course. I had this phone call with Trump after January 6th, but before January 20th, so he was still on the wait. As we talked about many things. The JFK assassination files. We talked about pardons of people who did pardon. And I did say to him, you need to pardon Edward Snowden and Julian Assange. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do was certain, talked him out of it. Mike Pence talked him out of it. Pence has already blasted this, called Julian Assange a traitor, glorying in the fact that Assange will plead guilty. Let me tell you about the guilty plea. When I was on the bench, I probably accepted in my years on the bench well over a thousand guilty pleas. We all knew that in many, maybe as many as half of those cases, the defendant was not in fact guilty of the crime to which the defendant pleaded, but wanted to end the prosecution via the deal the government had offered. We all know that the government in the United States of America always overcharges, indicts for more than it can prove in the united states of america always overcharges indicts for more than

it can prove in the hope of terrifying the defendant so the defendant will plead guilty to something lesser which the government thinks it probably can prove right knowledgeable of that my column which comes out at midnight um tomorrow night argues that as soon as he is on free soil, he should explain the conditions of his confinement, denounce what these governments did, renounce the guilty plea, because what he's pleading guilty to is not a crime he committed, and begin WikiLeaks revelations all over again. Now, that's a little risky. He's in Australia, or will be in Australia. Australia is under the thumb of the United States, not on this particular case, but on nearly all cases. So I don't know if he's going to accept

my advice or not, but that's the attitude that I have for him. I got to switch over to Sevastopol. Did you ever think you would wake up and find that the American military provide cluster bombs that were used on children on a beach on a Sunday afternoon? It's a nightmare, Judge. This is something that we've been all concerned about for years now, for more than two years. This is the point that we didn't want to get to. Every time there's been this discussion over the last couple of years about providing weapons to reach into Russia, this has been what we have come back with, is what happens when Russian children are killed. I said it a couple months ago. I referenced a school being hit.

Yes, you did. It was a beach. It was a beach. And it doesn't matter that this attack missile, this American attack missile, it was hit by an air defense system or electronic warfare caused it to veer off course. It doesn't matter. The idea is that United States munitions were given directly to a belligerent to kill Russians in Russian territory. The Russians have warned about this. And so now we are at this point where we are dependent upon the Russians having the wisdom and their strategic maturity and patience not to escalate this war in a catastrophic manner. So whoever thinks this is a good position to be in, where we are now relying upon the intelligence and the wisdom of the Russians, who have it in

spades more than we do, obviously, but we are in this position. We are dependent upon the Russians doing the right thing here, not to further escalate this war. This is a terrible, terrible spot to be in. And this is one that was predicted over and over again on your show. How many times has this been predicted, Judge? Correct, correct, correct. I mean, you're talking thousands and thousands of interviews done by the great stable of folks you have coming on

by yourself, you know, who have said this, we don't want to get to this spot. And now here we are. I don't think the Russians will do anything to escalate the war outside of Ukraine. Potentially, maybe they'll try and shoot down an American drone over the Black Sea or something. But I think they are smart enough to try and keep this confined to Ukraine proper. However, we all know that war is a superhuman experience. It's a superhuman phenomenon. And that however, whatever you think of war in the sense of making it, it's your agent. The reality is war always makes you its agent. And so, yeah.

Here's Russian Defense Minister Sergei Lavrov. I have to read this because we only have it in writing. This is Sunday night. The U.S. is responsible for this massacre, and they will get an answer. All flight missions for American ATAKOM's missiles are programmed by American specialists based on their own U.S. satellite intelligence data. Therefore, the responsibility for the deliberate missile strike against the civilian population of Sevastopol lies primarily with Washington, which supplied this weapon to Kiev, as well as with the Kyiv regime from whose territory this strike was launched. Such actions will not go unanswered. Before you respond, Matt, Chris, cut number 10.

This is the Russian ambassador to the United Nations yesterday. Kyiv regime supported by the USA carried out a heinous attack against civilians in the Russian city of Sevastopol in Crimea. Ukraine launched five U.S.-supplied attack MS missiles armed with cluster munitions. An American Global Hawk UAV was patrolling the airspace over the Crimean Peninsula. There will be measures in response. The Russian Federation will continue to protect its people and its national security until no threat is posed by the neo-Nazi regime in Kiev that was breeded, raised, and financed by the West. Breeded, raised, and financed by the West. An inestimable comment. Yeah, you know, and what you have is you have the American government essentially lying, as it always does, saying, well, we're not responsible.

Ukraine controls these weapons. When anyone who knows anything about this knows that that's not how it works. These are not just rifle bullets we gave them that they are firing out of their Kalashnikovs. These are weapon systems that need to be operated at some degree on some levels by American operators, whether they are in uniform, whether they are CIA, whether they are on contract, other contractors, the U S does everything in this, uh, uh, you know, to ensure that these weapons are actually able to be fired, including providing targets, providing coordinates, guiding the weapons while they are on route. I don't know if the drones have any involvement with these particular weapons, but however, the whole system works in a manner that you cannot deny American

direct involvement, but this is what the American government is doing. And now you have this expectation, this promise that these wars, these weapons are going to change this war. And we are seeing that come to fruition. However, not in the way that the West has argued that these weapons would win the war. What this is doing is these weapons are ensuring that the war changes, but in a manner that's detrimental to all of us, because as you just heard in those statements from the Russians, this reality of dead children on a beach caused by a foreign nation's weapon systems. They can't. And so to make it all worse is that we are five months away from an election and we have a White House, a Biden campaign that no matter what the risks of nuclear war are, what the real risks of World War III are, they view those risks as not nearly as important, as inconsequential, if you will, as the risk of losing the election in November. And their calculation, and we see how

this White House calculates and is wrong so often over and over again. But their calculation is that Joe Biden, being a wartime commander in chief, will help him win re-election regardless of the risks, including of nuclear war, that that wartime commander in chief role puts upon all of us. And these are the men and women who are guiding this nation, who are guiding NATO into this further escalation with Russia that has put us in this position today, Judge, as we keep saying that we never wanted to be in. And so how the Russians will respond, we will see. The only thing I know for certain is that they will respond. And hopefully it's in a manner that does not exasperate things, does not escalate things. It's that is controllable.

But as I just said, you know, war is something that is inherently uncontrollable. Matt Ho, thank you very much. I know you're having a busy day because you're very much in demand from a lot of people who want your thoughts and impressions and comments about Julian Assange. I appreciate you changing your schedule to accommodate mine, and we'll look forward to seeing you next week. Thank you, my dear friend. All right. Thank you, Judge.

Of course. Coming up tomorrow afternoon on Judging Freedom. Bear with me for a second. I should have had this out. Phil Giraldi at 3 o'clock Eastern. Aaron Maté at 4 o'clock Eastern. If any of that changes, if anybody else is going to jump in there, of course, we'll let you know. Thank you for watching!