Judging Freedom - Matt Hoh: IDF Attacks Iran.

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

Matt Hoh: IDF Attacks Iran.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, April 2nd, 2024. Matt Ho joins us now. Matt, a pleasure, my dear friend. Thanks for your time and for your thoughtfulness. Is there any, I want to talk about the latest breaking news in the Middle East, the Israeli attack on the Iranian consulate adjacent to the Iranian embassy in Damascus, Syria. Is there any military or legal justification for such an attack? No, no. It's the same, Judge, as what we've seen Israel do throughout these last six months, where they have blatantly and brazenly violated international law. So as a hospital, a diplomatic facility is a protected space. It cannot be attacked. The only way you could attack it is if the enemy is actually shooting at you from it. You have to be taking fire from them effectively.

It's written that clearly in international law. You know, we'll go to Geneva Conventions. You can see how clear it is that in order to attack a protected facility like a hospital, which they've done all throughout Gaza, they've destroyed almost all of them now, or this consulate in Damascus, this type of activity, so brazen, so overt, is, you know, in the case of the embassy or the consulate, it's just not a clear violation of international law. It's also a clear declaration of war. I mean, this is an overactive war, it's just not a clear violation of international law. It's also a clear declaration of war. I mean, this is an overactive war, and I'm not sure how it can be viewed otherwise. Well, you just read my mind as to where I wanted to go. My understanding of international law,

you know this well. You were just there the other day. When you were at the UN, technically you were not in the United States, even though you came from Manhattan. So the consulate, the embassy, and its appendages, a parking lot, a sister building connected to it, is technically the property of and the earth of Iran. So is this not a mask, but an actual act of war, Israel versus Iran? I don't see how you see it any other way, Judge, right? And the purposes of it, how deliberate. First of all, the timing, if we want to back it up a couple of days, right? So the United States, the Washington Post, I believe it was, reports the United States is going to provide 2,000 more 2,000-pound bombs to Israel, 25 more F-35 fighter jets. And then the Israelis go and do this. At the same time,

they are finishing their destruction after a two-week siege of al-Shifa Hospital, where they murdered hundreds of civilians, including doctors. Reports are they executed doctors, all coming from a Palestinian press that no one has any reason to doubt their veracity. These reports coming at al-Shifa, and then they go and attack this embassy or this consulate. And then, of course, the killing of the World Central Kitchen aid team yesterday. But the idea, though, behind this, Judge Wright, beyond it's an act of war, what's the purpose of it? Where is this leading to? And the danger that it puts American service members in the region, because the Iranians are saying, hey, look, six, seven weeks ago, when we were coming to blows, when you were all at set the United States about the fact that the Islamic resistance of Iraq had killed three of your soldiers and wounded 30 others.

We pulled them back. We got them to stop firing at your bases. And they did. The Iranians did that. They spoke to the militias in Iraq and Syria. And there have been no more attacks on American bases in the region. Now, the Iranians are saying, but what have you done? Where are you in this bargain? And so where this goes, and we've talked about this plenty of times, Judge, you've talked about with all your other guests, this idea that Israel is, I don't want to say dragging because there are plenty of people in the United States who are interested in a war with Iran, just as Israel is. But I think in the general consensus of the American people, the idea that we're going to go to this regional Middle Eastern war, something that would make, you know, the war in Iraq seem rather simple compared to what a war with Iran would be like, you know, this is a very, very dangerous point we're at. And, you know, hey, look, every time I'm on your show, Judge, we're talking about what dangerous points we're in. Right. Matt, it just seems to be getting worse. It makes me wonder if Netanyahu is losing in Gaza

and is looking to expand the war some other way because he knows that the more the war expands, the easier it is politically, domestically, politically for him to stay in power. And he also fears what will happen to him once he's out of power. Well, I think there's a couple a couple aspects of that. Right. One is that Gaza. I want to run a clip of Dennis Kucinich. You're going to love what he said. But but please address this first. OK. Yeah. But Gaza, Gaza is only going to last in terms of a military operation like we've been seeing for another month or so. Once the Israelis begin their destruction of Rafah, you're talking maybe four to six weeks before they switch to what they'll call security and stability operations.

They've already expressed their intent. The Israelis have to declare victory. And then that puts Netanyahu in the bind you're describing, Judge, where he's no longer at the top of an emergency government and they can call for elections and his political survival is at stake, right? So we've talked about this plenty of times as well. Expand the war, whether into Lebanon or whether against Iran directly, they need to expand the war to keep the government in power but it also too this this this aligns with a very real sentiment within israeli politics within the israeli military establishment certainly among uh the religious nationalists uh that this is the best time to continue with the greater israel project and that if that means going to war with Iran in order to fully expand Israel so that

Israel meets the potential of the desire of what those who started this project 120 years ago envisioned, then so be it. Now is the best time. The Americans are completely impotent. They're going to do whatever we tell them to do. They're going to, I mean, literally give us the bombs and the missiles and the planes to go to war against Hezbollah. And we can do everything we can as well to make it so that the Americans come into the war with Iran. Because if the Iranian if the Iranian the militias that are allied with Iran start killing American soldiers, as they did a couple of months ago, it's very likely that the Americans will respond to the Iranians. And now we'll have this war that we want where the Americans are at our side. We can

finish our project here in greater Israel, as well as defeat our arch enemy, Iran. Here's Dennis Kucinich just a few minutes ago, channeling his best Matt Ho. We have all the elements for World War III here, and the bombing of the Iranian consulate in Damascus is clearly an act of war against Iran. It is a violation of international law. And at this point, the Netanyahu government doesn't care about international law. As far as they're concerned, there is no international law. They are now a rogue government. And what's happening, you know, they've destroyed the El Shifa hospital. They've killed about 33,000 Palestinians and more, injuring countless people. They're driving a famine in Gaza right now, killing at least seven aid workers who were only there for the world central kitchen to give people food.

I mean, when you when you look at this, the and the United States is financing this. We are paying for it. Our taxpayers are paying for this. I do not want to see any of our sons and daughters from this country sent into a conflict that we're being dragged into by Netanyahu and his people in the Likud. It is time that we took a stand for American interest. It is not in our interest to go into World War III. If Netanyahu wants to have an expanded war, he should be told, pal, you're on your own. Yeah, you know, I'll say two things. One, again, about being dragged in. You know, this is the, we're not being dragged in.

This is the consequence of allowing a military industrial complex to run our politics, to dictate our foreign policies. This is the consequence of having men and women in power in both parties who believe in a Israel first policy as United States foreign policy. This is the consequence of money in politics where you can have a foreign lobby control our political process. So we are reaping what we've sown here in the sense of being involved in this potential war in the Middle East. I'll also take Dennis one step further, and God bless him. You know I love him, Judge. But I will say Israel is not the only rogue nation. It's the United States that's a rogue

nation. Right on the mark, Matt. Everything that Dennis said, you can apply to the United States. We have just, to put it politely, thumbed our nose at international law. There is this obsession, this mania, this delirium about a rules-based order, which is nothing more, Judge, as you know, than the same thing as a toddler making up rules to a game as they go along. And that's what our government has been for decades now, since the end of the Cold War. And the consequences are this Frankenstein's monster that is destroying the people of Gaza, that is committing this genocide with our full support across all aspects, political, media, diplomatic, financial, military, intelligence support. Israel could not be doing

what it's doing without what we are providing them. And the idea that the United States is complicit in the genocide in Gaza, I would push back against. And I would say the United States is conducting the genocide in Gaza because its support is so meaningful. It's so much that if you took it away, the genocide would stop. And so how can you then just say someone's simply complicit? The United States is an active participant in the genocide. And, you know, so expanding upon what Dennis said one step further, it's not Israel. It's not only Israel.

That's a rogue nation. But it's the United States that's a rogue nation, violating international law, dismissing it, just frankly making things up, such as we saw last week when the United States made up this notion that somehow Security Council resolutions are non-binding. Again, like a child making up rules to a game. Can Israel fight two wars or will, as you indicate, and I think ironically, Prime Minister Netanyahu said something similar yesterday. This will be over in three or four weeks. What will it do? Just leave Gaza and move all of its troops north. Let's assume it does that. Can it fight that war against Hezbollah and against Iran without American troops on the ground and American air power? I mean,

American pilots flying American planes. I don't mean Israeli pilots flying the planes that we've given them. I don't see how they could judge, not without our straight capabilities, so not without our aviation, our drones, our missile strikes. I don't see how Israel could conduct that type of war against Iran, particularly how Iran has, one, been preparing for a war like this for a long time, has the ability to reach Israel through its allies in Iraq and in Syria. So people look at the map and they might say, hey, Iran is really pretty far away from Israel. But you have to remember that the Iranians have allies in Syria, as well as in Iraq, of course, thanks to the American invasion of 2003. They didn't have those allies in Iraq before then, now they do. And then, of course, Hezbollah, which is-

Will America ever learn its lesson that these invasions produce generations of animosity, which comes back to bite us. Right. And it's the problem is, too, is I think, Judge, why they don't learn the lessons is they feel that they are those in power feel they are disconnected from the past, that those were the mistakes of previous generations. We know better. Look, I remember being on television with retired generals, with Brett McGurk, the guy who's been in charge of Middle East policy for both Republicans and Democrats now for more than 10 years. And these people just swearing that we know better now. We've learned the lessons of Iraq. We've learned the lessons

of Afghanistan. This is why we'll be successful. And the problem about that explanation I just offered, of course, is that it's belied by the fact that it's the same people. So we're asking the same men and women who ran our Afghan policy, who ran our Iraq policy, who ran our Libya policy, who ran our Syria policy, who've been running policy with regards to Africa for 20 years now, right? So why would we expect there to be anything different? And we also have to realize that their intentions are the benefit of the empire. Their intentions are not stability. Their intentions are not any type of peace, whether it be regional or global. Their intentions are not the welfare of the American people. Their intentions are to support the empire and all the aspects of the empire. So whether it's the corporations, the banks, the fossil fuel companies, the weapons companies, whether it's just looking at the map and, you know, whether or not the map now is in the same

color shades that it was before, right? So as if it's a game of risk, whether or not the American empire has been maintained, whether or not the American empire has grown, or God forbid, the American empire shrinks. Right. I mean, this is the type of mindset that these people have. And again, then when you're talking about men like Joe Biden, you're talking about Mitch McConnell, you're talking about people like Jake Sullivan or Tony Blinken, power is their ends, right? So the means are the ends themselves. They only care about the seat that they're in. They have no ideological destination. They have no greater goal or greater good they're trying to accomplish. It's power for power's sake. So whatever they need to do to both please the empire,

as well as please their benefactors to maintain their positions in the institutions of the empire, then that's what they're going to do. So when we ask these questions about why haven't they learned their lessons, it really is kind of a circular question or a question that's, right, is rhetorical because they're never going to, they don't see these as lessons. They just see this as the expansion of their own projects, both individual and institutional. All right. There seems to be, Chris just ran some clips, huge demonstrations against Netanyahu in Israel, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people. I mean, there's only 9 million people in Israel, and it seems like 15% are demonstrating against him. That would be an unbelievable number if it were here. It's over his failure to produce

the hostages, and it's over this new issue, which I hadn't thought of, I want to ask you about. In Israel, the draft is universal, both genders, unless you're a member of the ultra-Orthodox community. Now the secular Jews want to know why the ultra-Orthodox are, A, not being drafted, and B, being paid by the state to become ultra-Orthodox Jews. The Israel Supreme Court just told the Netanyahu government it was unlawful to pay these people just to study Judaism. They're not performing any service for the state. How much longer can this last? And isn't this group, we're watching some of them now, a vital part of the Netanyahu coalition, without which he doesn't have a majority in the Knesset? I think that you'll find a lot of anger among Israelis, secular Israelis, that those who are

most in favor of the wars, in favor of the instability, the aggression, in favor of the occupation, that requires young Israeli men and women to carry a rifle for three years of their the wars, in favor of the instability, the aggression, in favor of the occupation that requires young Israeli men and women to carry a rifle for three years of their life or however long it is, are exempt from that military service. So if you're ultra-Orthodox, you do not have to participate in the Israeli military. My understanding of the whole basis of that is simply because the ultra-Orthodox do not want their young to mix with the secular. And so rather than be a part of the military, the ultra-Orthodox enter into yeshivas, religious schools. And this has been going on since Israel was established in 1948.

There's been this exemption. And I think it's upwards about 20% of the population is exempt. So this is a big number. And so if you're a secular Israeli, or even a mildly religious or moderately religious Israeli, and you see those who are most rabid about Israel's expansion, about its occupation, about what it's doing in Gaza, its genocide, those being the ones who are exempted from having to face the danger or the consequence of the occupation of the war. We call them here chicken hawks in the United States. Washington, D.C. is full of these men and women. Congress is full of these men and women. The media is full of these men and women who've is full of these men and women. The media is full of these men and women who've never carried a rifle,

let alone had to use one in combat, who are also beating their chest the most, right? And demanding war and calling on the great God of Mars and et cetera, et cetera. Senator Graham comes to mind. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of them. I tend to be more upset with the ones in the media. You know, I don't want to even reference their names.

But this idea, though, Judge, is you see this friction, right, this fissure within Israeli society. I've never been able to get a number on it. But I hear over and over again from people in Israel about how many secular Israelis have been leaving Israel over the last 10, 20 years as Israel has lurched to the right, that there is an exodus of secular people. So I think there may actually be getting to the point where the Israeli military is starting to feel the strain as well of having this exemption for one fifth of the population. And so then you get to the point you brought up, Judge, about these protests against Netanyahu, where people remember a year ago they were occurring and there was, Judge, there was like a million people out in the streets protesting Netanyahu because he was so corrupt, right? He should be in jail. And plus his government government, if people remember his government last year, were trying to ram through reforms that would allow his corruption to remain untouched, basically detooth the judiciary and protect protect the government from any type of justice. So the year ago, you're talking about a million people in the streets protesting Netanyahu. And then that was alleviated, that was mitigated to a degree by the attacks on October

7th, this genocide in Gaza. But now with the hostages not being returned, people seeing through what Netanyahu and his government is doing in terms of trying just to use this war, this genocide for their own political survival. The fact that they're willing to let the hostages die rather than negotiate, which is the only way the hostages will return. People in Israel are going back out in the streets again because this villain is the same villain they had a year ago. But we have to be very careful to note that the majority of the Israeli public is in full favor of the genocide in Gaza. A super majority is in favor. I saw numbers about two weeks ago where 68% of Israelis are in favor of the blockade. 68%,

more than two thirds of Israelis are in favor of starving the Palestinian people. So we have to make sure we don't fall in this trap of thinking, which is I think what the White House and those in the US want us to scapegoat Benjamin Netanyahu, make it seem as if this was all just the consequence of one man in his delirious ambition, his genocidal rage was all him, as opposed to this is one of the great chapters of what the American empire has done overseas. I want to get back to Iran. We found an interesting commentator. It's a British television anchor. It's a French television station.

The commentator has all the earmarks of being an American. I think you're going to agree with what he had to say. We've heard from Iran in the last hour or so from the president, in fact, saying the attack will not go unanswered. What response could there be, though, from Iran? Well, first of all, I will comment on that wording itself. It's a double negative, right? Will not go unanswered. You couldn't make that more passive if you could. And that language is deliberate. And what do I mean by deliberate? It's that until now, there has been a sort of tug war on both sides. When I say both sides, Israel and Iran, not to allow one another to get to take this from

a shadow war, a so-called sort of covert war between Israel and Iran's proxies into a full-fledged war which would drag in Israel against Iran and Iran against Israel and its closest ally, the U.S. So that language itself, I'm not saying it's de-escalatory language, but it's relatively restrained, very diplomatic language, meaning, like I said, Iran's in a delicate position. If, as it says, this is a diplomatic compound, Iranian territory that was struck, it has to, for both domestic and for its own proxies in the region, to be seen as responding and responding strongly. At the same time, it is... What do you think?

Yeah, I think he's right. You know, you didn't hear the Iranians say, we'll answer this with hellfire or burn them to the ground. Do they risk credibility with the fury in the Arab streets when they don't respond to something as dramatic as the destruction of a consulate and the murder of two generals? Yes, they do. They do. And they have to balance that with the realization that what they're up against here are genocidal maniacs who have nuclear weapons. And so the Iranians have to balance this with, okay, our people are going to be upset. The people in the Middle East who we want to style ourselves as the leaders of the representatives of, they are going to be disappointed with a nuclear capability that we could see utilized. So we could see the loss of an Iranian city or two to a nuclear weapon because Iran hits Israel with long range missiles. You also have the knowledge, I think, by the Iranians that they

know the Americans will protect the Israelis. You know, does anyone think that if Israel was to use an atomic weapon, use a nuclear weapon against Iran, that the entire United States Congress or nearly the entire United States Congress would not protect them? Right. You know, you'd have sizable majorities, sizable elements of the American population, probably not a majority, but a sizable element who would forgive Israel, who would say they had to do it. They had no other choice. And then, of course, use all the types of racist or religious type of whom belong to the Christians United for Israel, who believe in Israel as the medium for which the apocalypse will occur, so that this type of war is needed to see Jesus return. So you have millions upon millions of Americans who believe that and who are heavily politically involved. You have members of Congress who believe that. So you could very easily, if you're the Iranian, see... The Speaker of the House is among them, Matt. that and who are heavily politically involved. You have members of Congress who believe that.

So you could very easily, if you're the Iranian- Speaker of the House is among them, Matt. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So this idea that not only the Iranians would use nuclear weapons, but they wouldn't not be held accountable for it, but also not, but also be protected is what I should say. Right. Right. So the Americans would protect the Israelis if the Israelis use a nuclear weapon against Iran. Iran understands that. And they have to be very careful in their response, not to go past the line that would allow Iran to use that nuclear weapon. Anyone watching these last six months who doesn't think Iran will use a nuclear weapon. Anyone watching these last six months who doesn't think Iran will use a nuclear weapon, I just don't know what to tell you. You know, I mean, and as well as to the

fact that the United States will protect Israel after using that nuclear weapon, same thing too. If you've been watching these last six months, you know, that's exactly what the United States would do. Here's just before we go. Actually, we can play we can play the volume because it's absurd. Here's Tony Blinken hand wringing again. We also agree that we have to find a path to a durable, lasting peace for Palestinians and Israelis alike. And we both agree that ultimately, that has to that has to include the establishment of a Palestinian state with necessary security guarantees for Israel. He's almost irrelevant when he talks that way. under oath to the Congress that the United States has a national security emergency, and therefore military equipment has to be sent to Israel without asking for Congress's permission.

I know Congress would give them permission, and I've said it before, I'll say it again, those documents are acts of perjury. That guy. That's exactly right. That's what they are. Judge, we just had last week the United States State Department certify that Israel is not committing violations of international law, either in its mass murder, right, utilizing U.S. weapons and munitions against the Palestinian people or Gaza or their deliberate starvation. And then what we see this week with the killing of those seven aid workers from the World Central Kitchen, where those aid workers, if people aren't aware, it wasn't just one missile hit them and killed them. These people were hunted for a mile and a half by Israeli drones. The Israelis destroyed one vehicle after another. They hit one vehicle, the Israelis. They transferred people out of that vehicle into another vehicle. These aid workers drove on. The Israelis struck the second vehicle, and then they pulled wounded out of that vehicle, put them in the third vehicle,

and then the Israelis struck that third vehicle over the course of a mile and a half. They deliberately hunted and killed these Abe workers, as another colleague of mine described it. This is putting heads on stakes. This is creating a warning to anyone who wants to try and intervene in Israel's genocide, that these will be the consequences. And what does the United States do? The United States stands by Israel. I saw right before we came on, I saw the United States State Department's response to the killing of those 7A workers, one of whom was an American citizen. And it basically was that you'd expect, Judge, just like what we heard from Anthony Blinken, what we hear from Matt Miller, from John Kirby, oh, this is a strategy.

It should be investigated. But we stand by Israel, and Israel has a right to defend itself. And it's just absolutely sickening. But it's also very, very dangerous, as we've been saying, because we are now at this point where Israel is doing everything it can to provoke a war with Iran with the intention of having the United States fight alongside of it. And it's a war that could go nuclear. And nothing's going to change. Joe Biden's not going to pick up that phone call like Dennis Kucinich suggested and say, you're on your own, pal. It's just not going to happen.

Right. Well, you know, and that's one of the, I think, the Israelis' calculations, Judge, is that this is the election year, and we've got Joe Biden over a barrel. We can continue to humiliate the United States. We can continue to get them to say whatever we want them to say, like a puppet on a string. They're going to keep us, their weapons and munitions, even though we are just committing these gross, gross acts of brutality and collective punishment. But it's an election year. What's Joe Biden going to do? What's the Democratic Party going to do? Are they going to buck the Israel lobby? Well, good luck to you then. So this for the Israelis, the opportunity here, they may not ever get another opportunity like this to make sure the Americans are linked arm in arm with them as they are now. So we really are, this is a terrible, terrible position to be in. Matt, thank you very much, my dear friend. By the way,

you just had the largest audience you've ever had on this program live, which of course will translate into a substantially larger audience once we post it, and that'll be in just a couple of seconds. But thank you, my dear friend. Thanks for all your time and all your gifted and fearless analysis. Thanks, Judge. Yeah, thanks for this platform and thank you to everyone who's watching. Okay. Coming up at three o'clock, Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, three o'clock Eastern and four o'clock Eastern, Aaron Matei. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.