Judging Freedom - Matt Hoh: Is Israel Losing Both Wars?

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

Matt Hoh: Is Israel Losing Both Wars?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, January 9th, 2024. Matt Ho will be with us here in just a moment to talk about is Israel losing both wars, both the war in Gaza and the war for the hearts and minds of people around the world. But first this. Justin Fultano here. I love being a spokesperson for causes that I believe in, and one of them is the soundness of money. We don't have that anymore. The markets are casinos the fed is

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Stated differently, can it achieve the goal that Prime Minister Netanyahu has set out for it? Hi, Judge. Thanks for having me back on. It's good to see you. No, they cannot defeat Hamas in any way, in any way more than the United States could defeat the Afghan insurgencies, the Iraqi insurgencies could defeat the Vietnamese insurgency. The only way they can do it is the way that the Americans defeated the Native Americans, and that's through genocide, is to wipe them out completely, eradicate them. And when I say them, I mean the Palestinians, because Hamas is the resistance of the Palestinians. We may not like how they look, we may not like that they are reactionary religious zealots in many ways, but what they are is the

embodiment of resistance against occupation. So the idea that you're going to defeat that without removing the occupation means the only way you can do that is through subjugation. And that means in this case, eradication, ethnic cleansing, genocide, which is what we're seeing. Here's Admiral Kirby, cut number three, Chris, who's actually asked directly what I just asked you. Can Hamas be eliminated? Let me be clear. There is a difference between language the U.S. has used in the past with the language degrade to try to degrade the leadership and the ability to attack. So does the U.S., just to be clear, I understand Israel's role in this. Does the U.S. believe the elimination of Hamas, though, is an attainable goal?

We believe that it is absolutely an attainable goal for the Israeli military forces to degrade and defeat Hamas's abilities to conduct attacks inside Israel. It can be done militarily. Are you going to eliminate the ideology? No. And are you likely going to erase the group from existence? Probably not. But can you eliminate the threat that Hamas poses to the Israeli people? Absolutely. Interesting, a little bit of flexibility on the part of Baghdad, Bob, there that I was surprised to hear. But what I want to talk to you about is Israel losing both wars. We know it is not succeeding in Gaza. And I want you to explain to me why they're pulling troops out. And then I'm going to ask you about the international public relations war, which they're losing just as badly.

But first, how many troops are they taking out? And why do they take troops out? And why do they announce that they're taking troops out? Well, the Israelis announced they're pulling out six brigades, I believe, which should be roughly about 18,000 troops in the conventional 3,000 men per brigade. So you're talking about a large chunk. And whether they are being pulled out so that they can rest and refit, whether they are being rotated out, other troops are going in to replace them, whether they are just you're moving into a different phase of the operation, which the Israelis have spoken out repeatedly how they're moving into a different phase. And there's a big New York Times article this past weekend that talked about that, about

how the new phase of operations, which I think is going to look a lot like the old phase. But that's part of the propaganda. That's part of the public relations. Like whenever you move into a new phase, you're telling people that we have successfully concluded the previous phase. Right. So it's right. So, I mean, so it is part of PR to do this. Some of it may be repositioning these troops, Judge, right, because this idea of expanding the war into Lebanon every day, we turn on the news and there's another strike in Beirut. There's another attack on Israeli forces and Israeli communities by Hezbollah. Certainly the idea that the West Bank could explode into a third intifada, you know, very likely. And I think many in the Israeli establishment who want to take the West Bank as well as Gaza. And of course,

the West Bank is more of a priority for the Zionists, for the Israeli establishment that wants the greater Israel, you know, that wants to see that fulfilled. The West Bank, what they call Judea and Samaria, is a much higher priority for them. So, I mean, there's a number of reasons why they could have rotated these troops out, you know, and we'll see going forward. My expectations is that their campaign may pull back a bit in terms of their ground offensive. They may not be as aggressive on the ground. They just lost, the Israelis just lost to the nine soldiers today fighting in Gaza. You know, that type of pressure, that political pressure, nobody, foreign wars, even a war like this, which you can characterize as a foreign war, you've gone

over the border into someone else's land, always has a domestic political effect. Losing young men and women overseas, if you will, over the border in a foreign land, someplace they're not supposed to be, always has a political effect. Might take a couple of years, but in Israel's case, I think it might be more pronounced. So I think you're going to see an evolution of this campaign where still the punishment of the Gazans, still the fulfillment of ethnic cleansing, but a more relaxed approach on the ground, a more cautious approach on the ground in the sense of not trying to incur casualties. I think there is a I think the Israelis want to get into Gaza quickly, show the world that they mean business. I think they had this misconception that they could rush in and trying to try and capture Hamas strong points, maybe find some hostages, because they went in about three weeks after their offensive, which I think many of us thought was quick, particularly for the status of their forces, for the fact that, you know, as the Israeli journalist Gideon Levy says,

the Israeli army for the last 20 some odd years has gotten really good at shooting kids, throwing rocks, not at fighting actual wars. So what we'll see in the propaganda aspect of all this, the PR aspect of all this, Israel is certainly isolated. You've seen them lose huge blocks of support in different political bodies around the world. They are now going on trial at the International Court of Justice on Thursday on charges of genocide, which as you've discussed, people want to get a good appreciation. Watch the interview the judge just did with Professor Mearsheimer. They talk about this at length.

But what they're up against, the Israelis, and as well, the Americans, because as you all brought up, the United States is complicit. There is an aspect of the Genocide Convention that makes liable nations for being complicit in genocide. And we certainly we certainly make, you know, fall into that category. So I think the Israelis are in a number of difficult positions that I think a lot of us would have predicted or did predict three months ago would occur if they went forward with this campaign. But they're so driven by those two camps that are in power right now, the ultra-right religious reactionary, religious zealots, the settler class, as well as the security class, those who come out of the army and the security services, the Likud party. You've got this merger between the ultra-religious and the nationalists,

and what they're doing is trying to fulfill their ambitions at the sake of long-term security for Israel and for the region. So over the weekend, there was a brouhaha in the Israeli war cabinet. By the way, what Chris has just put up there is a portion of the South African complaint, which I can tell you from having read criminal complaints, I have rarely seen one this detailed and unassailable. Even though it's a criminal case, it's almost a slam dunk. It's almost inconceivable to me what the Israeli defense will be. They stated not that they denied this, they said it was a blood libel, a phrase that goes back to the Middle Ages involving conspiracy theories and the Jewish people, none of which were proven to be true and all of which are absurd, but it wasn't

a denial of what they're doing. The aspect to this complaint that is most jarring is that the evidence is there on television and on the internet every day for everybody to see, and the intent that needs to be proven in order to prove a war crime is there for everybody to read and hear out of the mouths of everybody from Prime Minister Netanyahu to Defense Minister Gallant to these most extreme members of the Israeli cabinet. But over the weekend, there was a big brouhaha in the cabinet when the IDF, the military, announced that it's going to investigate what happened on October 7th. This would be like the U.S. Army investigating what happened on 9-11. It's almost inconceivable over here, but apparently it's going to happen there.

And the hard right people in the cabinet, of course, opposed this vehemently. It doesn't look very good for Prime Minister Netanyahu. So all this is a background to my question. Are Netanyahu's political and legal problems at the root of pulling out these 18,000 troops? And has the Netanyahu cabinet changed its mind on the two-state solution. Yeah, I think the desperation for Netanyahu that this is the only way for me to stay in power and possibly stay out of jail is evident. I mean, the Washington Post even said this a couple of days ago. So if the Post is saying it at this point, wow, it's really pretty obvious then, right? You know, and this idea that the rest of the cabinet, whether they be the security types or the religious types, this is our chance. This may be our last chance because the world is changing. We are decidedly against the world.

And the only ones who are backing us, of course, is the most important nation, the one that we need, the United States. But that support is eroding. And if we look at, you know, this is Israelis looking at this, we look at how the media is operating, unless people are watching MSNBC or Fox or reading the New York Times or Wall Street Journal, they are getting a clear view of what we're doing here. So our window to achieve greater Israel, right, to achieve, fulfill this Zionist ambition, to get this security buffer, to get the Judea and Samaria, whatever their rationale is to move forward, now is the time

to do it because we may not have this opportunity again. And I think that's motivating most of the cabinet in terms of why they are so forthrightly advancing this and so willing to speak out loud what they are doing, what their intentions are, how they're so overtly and publicly embracing genocide. Because I think there's a desperation there that this is our opportunity to do. We won't get another chance like this. Here's Secretary of State Blinken just a few minutes ago. So this is letter C, Chris, on the Palestinian state. You might be surprised to hear what he had to say. And I really don't know why he said it. And he was in Jerusalem when he did.

As I told the prime minister, every partner that I met on this trip said that they're ready to support a lasting solution that ends the long-running cycle of violence and ensures Israel's security. But they underscored that this can only come through a regional approach that includes a pathway to a Palestinian state. These goals are attainable, but only if they're pursued together. This crisis is clarified. You can't have one without the other. You're playing words by saying pathway because it could be a 70-year-long pathway like the path

that they're on now. Or do you think Tony Blinken said to Benjamin Netanyahu, you have to give in on the two-state solution? I think, first of all, if I'm struck watching that video, Judge Eng, Blinken is standing in front of U.S. Embassy Jerusalem, which was such a big deal for the world when the United States moved under President Trump, moved its embassy to Jerusalem, and then President Biden kept it. If President Biden and his people like Tony Blinken had wanted to show a degree of concern with actually achieving a lasting peace process, a political settlement, a two-state solution, they would have stopped that move of the embassy to Jerusalem and moved it back to Tel Aviv, but they kept it. And with that, I mean, people might say that's just symbolic,

but it shows who these people are and what they're willing to agree to, what they're willing to follow, what they're willing to say, this was our word. And so they've not done that. They've done that over and over again, paid lip service to things like two-state solution, paid lip service to things like pathways to peace, paid lip service to the fact that Jerusalem is to be an international mean, so you see that you see the disingenuousness, you see the gaslighting, you see the lying. And so you wonder how then what what is being said behind closed doors? I I think the only way the Americans, whether it be Biden or Blinken or or Hoxbund or any of these who are doing the speaking on our behalf, they may be saying things to Netanyahu and Gallant and others along the lines of, hey, you need to tone it down because it's hurting us politically. You're giving us a hard time. We're losing votes. But at the same time, too, I'm sure those in power in Israel would prefer to see a Trump presidency than a Biden presidency. I mean,

they get what they want from Biden, but they got to figure they would get more from Trump. So they're not really too concerned about the domestic political concerns of this White House, because this White House is bending over backwards to make sure they get everything they need. So as Blinken's talking about this process, as Biden expresses concern for civilian casualties. You know, three, about three C-17s worth of bombs and hellfire missiles and artillery shells landed in Israel that day. You know, every second or third day, you've got a cargo ship, a cargo ship arriving in Israel full of bombs and missiles and rockets and shells. And that, of course, belies what they're saying.

Is it fair to say, in your view, Israel is losing both wars? It is losing the war in Gaza, and it is losing the PR war around the world. And the latter is about to get worse once this trial with Ehud Barak representing Israel with a phantom defense starts on Thursday. I think it will get worse, but I think the Israelis, their calculations are to hell with the world, to hell with our perception. As long as we have the United States backing us, we can do whatever we want. As long as we continue to get those C-17s and cargo ships full of ammunition, as long as the cash comes into this country to keep us afloat, as long as the American Navy is willing to go out and embarrass itself in the Red Sea to try and keep our ports open, we can do whatever we want. And as long as the problem

with that, Judge, of course, is this gets into the larger issue, we've spoken about this, and it's been a longtime concern for yours and for many people, is that as long as the American political system is dominated by money, and as long as the Israel lobby can influence not just members of Congress, but elected officials on all levels. We have down here in North Carolina, the Israel lobby has got our local legislators attending the snuff film, the film that the Israelis have been running around showing of the GoPro video cameras from the Hamas fighters on their terror attacks on October 7th, they're showing those to local legislators, right? And these local legislators oftentimes supposedly have to sign NDAs saying that after they view this film put on by a foreign government meant to influence them

with the whole weight and, you know, the whole weight of the Israeli lobby behind them. And these legislators know exactly what that means, either money for me or money for my candidate, a lot of my opponent. I mean, a lot of money. They are watching these films and then they're not supposed to talk about it because they signed an NDA. They're not allowed to bring their phones in. So, I mean, they're running for office. They've been lobbied by a foreign government. They're running for a local or state office, and they're not allowed to tell the voters whose votes they seek what this foreign government has shown them in order to influence their decisions. Exactly. Exactly. And if people don't think it's affecting them on the local or state

level, you need to look into this. There are laws on most states in the United States now that ban people who are supportive of the boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel. So clearly a First Amendment right to do so. I'm not going to spend my money this way. I'm not going to support this country. Clearly a First Amendment right. And there are laws throughout this country that ban that, that say that if you support BDS, you cannot be a contractor for the state. You cannot be a vendor for the state. You cannot be an employee of the state. It's gone to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court has gone along with it. This is how politicize our judicial system. And as well, another thing I know you're upset with. So, I mean, right. I mean, you see how insidious this is. in the public opinion. They will likely lose in the International Court of Justice unless somehow the Americans are able to influence that court the way they influence the International Criminal Court. And I would not be surprised if at some point the American Congress defunds

the International Criminal Court. So whatever money we provide to the UN to support the International Criminal Court, I would not be surprised at all if at some point the American Congress pulls that money, as well as other money for the UN, as well as potentially, like we did, sanction those members of the International Court of Justice who ruled against Israel, who took part in this court. So as well as sanctions against South Africa, the vindictiveness is just going to begin. And that's what Israel is counting on. So this is why I think they feel like this is a time we can do our ethnic cleansing. We can get away with it because the Americans are backing us

to hell with everybody else. As long as we've got the Americans by the nose, right? As long as we are involved politically with them and we can threaten their Congress with spending millions of dollars either for them or against them. The same way, too, with with, you know, you look at the White House. I mean, Joe Biden is arguably the biggest Zionist in his own words in Washington, D.C., but they're terrified, terrified that the Israel lobby will throw all its weight behind the Republican or perhaps a Robert F. Kennedy Jr. or perhaps a no labels candidate like Joe Manchin. They're terrified of that. justice, take action against South Africa, sanction the, excuse me, Irish lawyers who are representing South Africa in this charge of genocide, even though they're going to do all those things or likely will do all those things, they're still going to back Israel. And this is

why ultimately Israel thinks it can get away with it. Matt, it's a pleasure, my dear friend. No matter what we talk about, a great, great and terrific analysis about these touchy subjects. You know, it's such a head scratcher. The United States controls and undermines the International Criminal Court. We're not even a member. Our public officials are not even subject to it. The United States, China, Russia, Iran, North Korea. What a gaggle of friends we have chosen not to have signed the Treaty of Rome. Yet, by the use of the almighty dollar, the United States which Israel and South Africa will be on Thursday, is a U.N. court and all members of the U.N. are subject to it. It's toothless. They can't impose and they can't do anything other than excoriate the loser, which I think will happen. I don't know that that's going to change Prime Minister Netanyahu's views or conduct of the war, but it's going to further push Israel back on the PR war.

Don't you agree? I do. I do. And as we enter this new year and we look back and how did we get to this point, and we talked about pathways before, we get to this point? And we talked about pathways before. We're on a pathway to ruin, Judge. I mean, this embrasure of whether it be proxy wars like in Eastern Europe, whether it be this maniacal commando and drone warfare all throughout Africa, which ultimately comes back to trying to hold and grab and to extract the, you know, particularly the rare earth minerals, the resources of Africa, but then also to this, this desire, this decision to stand with Israel, which again, there's plenty of political reasons for that's overwhelming, but we're on a pathway to ruin here. I mean, the way to prosperity is

through peace. That is it. I mean, the way to prosperity is through peace. That is it. I mean, there is no prosperity through war. We have this mistaken view of that in the United States because we came out of the First World War and the Second World War unscathed, actually stronger, bigger than we were while the rest of the world was in ruin. I mean, do you think a pathway to prosperity for Germany was the destruction in the door to Japan? They had to rebuild. They spent decades rebuilding. And, you know, so this idea that somehow war is going to lead to prosperity for us or that somehow bucking an international system, undermining it where we can collaborate and coordinate and cooperate to achieve, you know, some semblance of prosperity together. So the madness that we're up against, the depravity, and just like we cannot underestimate who these people are. We are dealing with psychopaths in

power, and we are the ones who are going to be paying for it. Here's Congressman Jamie Raskin, whom I know from his prior life, one of my prior lives, too, when we were both professors of constitutional law at law schools. It's a relatively small community, but he still is an expert on the Constitution, but now is a Democratic congressman from Maryland and one of the leaders of the Democrats in the House of Representatives. Very interesting. He's giving a press conference about no one is above the law. Now, he's not talking about Israel, but watch what happens at this press conference. The political scientists tell us that the hallmarks of an authoritarian or fascist political party are that, one, they do not accept the results of democratic elections that don't go their way. Two, they refuse to renounce or they openly embrace political violence as an instrument.

What's the matter with this? Is there something wrong with the sign? Israel is not above the law. Hold Israel accountable. Hold Israel accountable. They accept. They are worse than Jan 6. Hold Israel accountable. Israel is not above the law. Hold it accountable. They accept.

I'm sorry. Let me just start that again. Sort of a dose of his own medicine. He's there talking about the Republicans are not above the law. And this lady is silently standing there with a sign in front of the Capitol building, a quintessential place for the demonstration of political views. And the cops yank her away. Yeah, that's Medea Benjamin of Code Pink. God bless her. I didn't realize that you knew her.

Oh, yeah. She's a personal hero of mine. She really is. I know very few who I would consider as brave and as principled as Medea. I mean, she's had her arm broken by the Egyptian police. I mean, she is someone who lives her values. And she is, when you talk about, say, Judaism, she's Jewish and she is the epitome of the best aspects of things that when we look and we speak and we speak reverentially about Judaism, the history of it, its presence in this world, what it has meant, what its people have endured,

the ideas of justice and mercy that populate so much of that, you know, Judaic ethos. It comes out through people like Medea. But absolutely, Judge, I mean, the idea that, well, I'll just say this. They're writing their own misfortune. They are the Democrats in this. They are counting on a slavish loyalty to the party that younger people are turning away from in droves and even older Democrats are turning away from. And their calculation that the money from the Israel lobby is more important than the votes embracing and supporting genocide are going to drive away may prove to be their undoing. And this may be the thing that gives the Republicans the elections in November. It's

already going to be a close election. I mean, depending on what polls you look, Republicans are winning. So there, but their fear and their greed, this is what it comes down to with the Israel lobby and all lobbies. This is the same for agriculture, pharmaceuticals, healthcare, you name it. This is the way our system works. Legalized bribery. But you know, the idea that it's either fear or greed. You want the money the Israel lobby is offering, or you're scared to death that they're going to give that money to your opponent. And this is what's motivating our foreign policy. It's as simple as that, unfortunately, I think. I think you're 100% on the mark. Thank you, Matt. Thank you very much. We look forward to having you back next week. All the best. Thanks, Judge.

Okay. Coming up at three o'clock this afternoon, Karen Kwiatkowski. Later this week, Colonel McGregor. And from Moscow, Scott Ritter, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. 🎵