Judging Freedom - Matt Hoh: The Palestinian Sufferings.

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

Matt Hoh: The Palestinian Sufferings.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, January 28th, 2025. Matt Ho is here with us on resistance. Will it still work in the Middle East? But first this. Markets are at an all-time high. Euphoria has set in. The economy seems unstoppable. But the last administration has buried us so deep in debt and deficits, it's going to take a lot of digging to get us out of this hole. Are you prepared? Lear Capital specializes in helping people like me and you grow and protect our wealth with gold. Did you know that during Trump's last presidency, gold rose 54% to a record high? If that happens again, that puts gold at $4,200 an ounce in his next term.

Don't wait. Do what I did. Call Lear at 800-511-4620 or go to learjudgenap.com for your free gold ownership kit and special report, $4,200 gold ahead. When you call, ask how you can also get up to $15,000 in bonus gold with a qualifying purchase. Call 800-511-4620, 800-511-4620, or go to learjudgenap.com and tell them the judge set you. Matt, welcome here, my dear friend. Thank you for your time as always. Does Donald Trump share the same antipathy for the freedom of the Palestinians that Joe Biden had? No, I don't think so, Judge. It doesn't make him any better. Maybe it makes him worse in some ways.

I think Joe Biden was a very serious Zionist. He was a true believer. And Joe Biden would say that himself. There's no bigger Zionist in the United States or in Washington, D.C. than me. I think Donald Trump, if we recall, go back to 2015, when Trump was first running for president and when he was asked about Palestine and Israel, he gave fairly neutral responses. He said, we need to be more neutral. We need to be more of an honest broker there. Palestinians haven't gotten a fair shake. You know, he wasn't saying there should be a, you know, he wasn't saying from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free or anything like that. Right. But he but then once he started doing

well in the primary and the Israel lobby money came in and when he became the nominee and he had that sit down with Sheldon Adelson and $50 million came into the campaign, right? That changed him. And I think the way Trump probably looks at the Palestinians as a nuisance. More and more, Judge, I'm visualizing how Donald Trump views the American empire

in the context of his real estate empire. And he sees the Middle East as a region to be exploited, to be built up for benefits to come from, and a hindrance are the Palestinian people. So I think that's probably how he sees them, more of a nuisance to his own objectives, including his political objectives, what he thinks right for the American empire, than opposed to Joe Biden, who really, I think, believed in the good versus evil binary schism presented by Zionism. I'm not sure, as you indicated earlier, I'm not sure which is worse. I mean, Biden is motivated by, it's warped, but it's a seriously held ideological view. Trump seems to be motivated

by what will work for the moment. I mean, here he is on Air Force One. The government didn't release a video, just an audio. So we have a video of the Palestinian people moving north in Gaza. But here he is on Air Force One uh two days ago Chris cut number four version two I said to him I'd love you to take on more because I'm looking at the whole Gaza script right now and it's a mess it's a real you'd like Jordan's house people from to take people uh I'd like Egypt to take people I'm'm talking to General El-Sisi tomorrow, sometime I believe. And I'd like Egypt to take people and I'd like Jordan to take people. I mean, you're talking about probably a million and a half people. And we just clean out that whole thing. And I don't know, something has to happen.

But it's literally a demolition site right now. Almost everything's demolished. And people are dying there. So I'd rather get involved with some of the Arab nations and build housing at a different location where they can maybe live in peace. Temporarily or would they? It could be either. It could be temporarily. It could be long term.

This statement is one of the reasons that prompted me to ask you if he has the same contempt for the personal freedom of these people as Joe Biden did, or if he thinks he can just move them around as if they're players on a chessboard. I think it's the latter, Judge. And I don't think Donald Trump has any respect for personal freedom, regardless of nationality, ethnicity, religion, you know, et cetera. You know, Trump was correct. What we have been witnessing, what we are witnessing now is a demolished state, is a society that has been reduced to rubble. But what we are not witnessing are a defeated people. And this is where Trump's superficial understanding of the situation is going to cause a lot of serious problems,

maybe even more than the problems caused by the Biden administration. One thing to go back to with Trump is he is surrounded by true believers in Israel first American policy, in the needs of the empire, et cetera, et cetera. So he may be transactional, but the people around him, while they were successful politicians, I do believe are also true believers as well. But the idea that he is stating there, Judge, of that we'll build them these homes and it'll be better. He himself has no empathy for, you know, it's odd because he portrays himself as a nationalist. He portrays himself as the greatest American out there. And his whole goal, his whole purpose in life is to make America great. He said last week when he was inaugurated,

that's why God saved him from an assassin's billet, was to make America great again. But he doesn't, it's all fake. It's all fraud. He's a con man. He doesn't believe in any of that. He doesn't feel any of that because if he did feel that, he would understand that the Palestinian people will never voluntarily move. They will never be displaced by force. It will take an extermination campaign much greater than we saw this 15, 16 month long genocide was able to accomplish. And Donald, so Donald Trump, his lack of understanding, not just of, say, the geopolitics, but also of the human forces, the realities of mankind, the history of the desire by peoples across the world throughout time to be free, to have liberty and to not be occupied, not be under the heel of an oppressor. He doesn't understand that at all. He has he doesn't have empathy to do that. possibly as horrible, as criminal, as destructive as the Biden administration was, this Trump

administration may be worse because of essentially who Donald Trump is. You know, here he is on the evening of his inauguration, and he appears to be signing executive orders while he's talking, and he's talking about redeveloping the gaza strip because of its location and its weather cut number five christian mr president that you can keep the ceasefire in gaza and conclude the three phases of this deal i'm not confident that's not our words their war but i apologize i'm not confident but i think they're very weakened on the other side. I looked at a picture of Gaza. Gaza is like a massive demolition site. That place has really got to be rebuilt in a different way.

Are you meant to help rebuilding Gaza? My mind. You know, Gaza is interesting. It's a phenomenal location. On the sea, best weather. You know, Gaza is interesting. It's a phenomenal location on the sea. Best weather. You know, everything's good. It's like some beautiful things could be done with it. But it's very interesting. But some fantastic things could be done with Gaza. How do you see the future in governance for Gaza? Well, it depends.

I can't imagine you could have, well, you certainly can't have the people that were there. Most of them are dead. This view of the made in America genocide as if it were real estate to be redeveloped, it turns my stomach. It reminds me, Judge, it, a local story from here, and I think you'll like this as well. I have friends of mine, part of a ministry that would go and feed the homeless in a park in Raleigh,

and then they were arrested for feeding the homeless. This is like 10 years ago. And then, of course course the emails come out from the city council, from the mayor's office, ordering the police to do that in order to benefit the real estate developers. And again, so going back to this idea of Emperor Trump and what is his background, how does he view the empire?

He doesn't view it in a static terms. He doesn't view it in the established terms that Joe Biden and his predecessors viewed it. He views it more dynamically. And if you're in real estate, right, you have to be willing to move. You have to be willing to enter new markets, leave old markets, and you have to be able to take care of nuisances. So just like my friends, Hugh and Maggie were arrested for feeding the homeless because that was bothering the developers, you know, you have to get rid of the nuisance. And in this case, you know, as we were saying before, it is the Palestinian people.

And I think that's how it also the larger context, there's not larger, but another context as well, Judge, I think, is Trump's ego. And, you know, we have to understand that that's what motivates this man. And you hear this conversation, these rumors or leaks or whatever, that Donald Trump really wants to win a Nobel Peace Prize. And in order to do that, maybe it's solve the Ukraine war. Maybe it's solve the Middle East. But if he wants one, you know, ending the Israel-Palestine conflict, he probably believes as his best route to winning a Nobel Peace Prize. I mean, he said it in his inauguration, his greatest legacy will be of peacemaker and unifier. And so for Donald Trump, this is Roman, right? I wonder if he's still going to play golf with Lindsey Graham who wants to whisper in his ear,

it's time to bomb Iran. Another crazy person. We have been talking yesterday and today about this terrific clip from Daniel Levy, a former Israeli negotiator, harshly critical of the Netanyahu government and characterizing the ceasefire as a defeat for Israel. It's quite profound. I'd like your thoughts on it. Chris, cut number one. One cannot underestimate the impact on the Israeli public psyche of the release, the initial three who were released. And of course, everyone therefore saw those images.

They've been told Al-Qassamam defeated they've been told the public has turned against them they've been told so many things and then they saw those images an occupying army armed and aided by the most powerful military in the world, the US. A nuclear armed state, Israel. In a struggle between that and a resistance movement, we saw a very powerful display and Israelis saw that. We're being told by Israeli analysts, talking heads, political leaders, and their backers in the West, that the next phase has to be to move forward. We have to have the demilitarization of... The reality is the most significant force in Gaza, by a long stretch, is Hamas. Al-Qassam emerges from this with a very strong narrative.

Israel's narrative doesn't look so good at all. What is Al-Qassam vis-a-vis Hamas? Al-Qassam is named after a Palestinian liberation authority from 100 years back. And Al-Qassam is the armed wing of Hamas. Are you surprised to hear this from a former Israeli government negotiator and I will tell you two of your

colleagues on the show know him and praise him to the skies Alistair Crook and Ambassador Charles Freeman. Yeah I've never been fortunate to meet Daniel Levy, but he certainly is one of the best geopolitical commentators and analysts out there, his background, of course. And, you know, certainly he, along with others like Gideon Levy in Israel. I mean, this is something, right, Judge, the fact that we know much more critical elements of Israel coming from Israelis in the Israeli press than we see coming from the American press. So to hear this type of conversation, you have to hear it from someone like Daniel Levy, a former Israeli army soldier, a former negotiator. You won't hear that from

American commentators. And he's absolutely correct in what he's saying. The images that are coming out of Gaza should be a wake-up call for the Israeli people. Now, it won't be, of course, probably some of them. I'm surprised Ben-Gavir and Smotrich didn't have aneurysms and fall over dead when they saw those things. destroy their buildings. You can destroy their roads. You can destroy their fields. You can destroy the flesh, but you cannot destroy the spirit. And that is something that the Israelis do not understand. That is something the Americans do not understand. I mean, I shouldn't say that. The Americans certainly, I don't think, understand it at all. The Israelis do, and they say we're going to push through it. You know, this is their iron wall concept, goes back 100 years, understanding that the Arabs will resist us, as Jaffa Dickens said, the Arabs will resist us. This is where we must be an Arab wall. So this idea of the only solution for the Israelis then is, of course, ethnic cleansing. What other rational choice is

there from the Israeli perspective at this point than to fully carry out ethnic cleansing, than to exterminate these people, get rid of them? because we just spent 15, 16 months bombing them and looking at them. They're out on the streets, they're declaring victory. Our soldiers, when they were returning home, are waving them and giving thumbs up to the crowds, leaving with smiles on their faces. I mean, so the idea that somehow there is any other solution for the Israelis. Then extermination of the Palestinian people is only further heightened by what they're seeing coming out of Gaza in, again, these displays of defiance, the display of victory and the resilience. I mean, the videos that we have seen of the Palestinian people walking home in the hundreds of thousands. I mean, these are historic videos. The video we have certainly of the Al-Arshi Road,

where there are literally hundreds of thousands of people on that road. That has to be the most iconic photo of the century by far. I mean, what else matches up with this in terms of going to the idea of the human spirit, the human desire for freedom, the human desire to live without occupation, but achieve liberation. So you see this. And to the Israelis, then, of course, what can we do? These people who are watching right now on the screen, Judge, where are they going back to? They're going back to destroyed homes, entirely destroyed neighborhoods, nothing there. And what's their first task? They have to pull out of the rubble their dead parents, their dead children, their dead brothers and sisters,

their dead neighbors, their dead husbands and wives. That's what everyone who's walking right now, that's their first task. And they're all doing it with joy and in a sense of victory, or if not victory, then defiance and resistance and solidarity and resilience. Do you think that when Trump makes these wild statements, he is being knowingly misled by the intelligence community or just shooting from his hip? For example, I know this is going to veer us into Ukraine and Russia, but he also said the Russians have lost a million troops. The economy is in tatters. We know that that is absolutely not the truth. They haven't lost, they've lost less than 100,000 and the economy is better than before Joe Biden's sanctions were imposed. Do you think that the so-called deep state

is intentionally misleading him or is he shooting from the hip and he doesn't care about the truth? Oh, they intentionally are. Absolutely. And I know Larry Johnson has written a couple of pieces on this that are really great on Larry's blog, Soinr21. I'm sure you spoke with him about that yesterday and on Friday with Ray. But this is not, so but this is not new, the judge. So when I resign in protest for my position from Afghanistan in 2009 during the escalation of that war by the Obama administration, and I come back and I'm front page news in The Washington Post and I get a call and I've got to go see Chuck Hagel, the former senator, former chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, who's now over at Georgetown University. He's also, along with David Boren, a former chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee,

who's now the president of the University of Oklahoma. Hegel was also a former, unless he wasn't yet, secretary of defense. He was not yet. And that's a point we could kind of get into about the guy. But what happens is that Hegel and Boren both say to me, and again, they're co-chairs of the President's Intelligence Advisory Board. That's the important thing. They both say to me, they say, Matt, look, we're hearing what you're saying. We're reading what you're saying about Afghanistan. It lines up exactly with what the Army and Marine Corps officers who have been in Afghanistan are saying when they're coming through our schools.

And it is completely 180 degrees from what the president is getting on his desk. So this is the reality of the deep state. I mean, I could tell you other stories like this. I may have shared this one before. Ike Skelton, former chair of the House Armed Services Committee, I went in to give him a briefing, a one-on-one briefing in March of 2010. So we have been in Afghanistan at that point for almost for eight and a half years. And this is the chair of the armed services committee, the house of representatives, eight and a half years into the Afghan war. He says to me, thank you for coming in. No one has ever come into this office before and given me a negative

assessment of the war in Afghanistan. So this is the reality of the blob. This is the reality of the military industrial complex. This is the reality of the imperial mindset that dominates everything so that it becomes nothing other than just a continual advancement of its own interests. And everything is always done. Policy follows the narrative rather than narrative following the policy. So our policies are almost always done to protect the already existing narrative. And that includes the information that goes to the president's desk. So you have this issue where Donald Trump is being told, and he's saying confidently because his intelligence people are telling him, 600,000 Russians are dead and a million more wounded or whatever the crazy numbers was he was saying. He has no other source. And this is you know, this is this is very problematic.

It's very difficult and it allows for the United States to continue this ruinous foreign policy that is not just causing death and destruction around the world, but also rapidly diminishing America's role in the world, its place in the world, isolating it, as well as then, of course, hurting the American people by extension. So this is a systemic issue we have with, you know, you can call it whatever you want. We'll call it the deep state today. We can call it something else tomorrow. But this is a systemic problem we have with our national security state, which is, of course, is a fundamental aspect of our empire, controlling and dictating foreign policy, even when it's not in the best interest of the United States, especially when it's not in the best interest of the American

people. Matt Ho, thank you very much. You're such a courageous guy. And thank you so much for all you've done and for the time that you share with us every week. We look forward to seeing you again next week. Thanks, Judge. Of course. Coming up at three o'clock this afternoon, Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you. you