Judging Freedom - Matt Hoh: Will Israel Soon Stand Alone?

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Matt Hoh: Will Israel Soon Stand Alone?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, August 27th, 2024. Matt Ho will be here with us in just a moment on, Is Israel Losing the Propaganda War? But first this. 2024. Matt Ho will be here with us in just a moment on, is Israel losing the propaganda war? But first this. A divisive presidential election is upon us and the winner is gold. Let me tell you what I mean. Since 2016, our national debt has grown a staggering 70% And gold has increased by 60%. Do you own gold? I do. I bought my gold in February 2023, and it has risen 33%. You've heard me talk about Lear Capital, the company I trust. Let me tell you why. Recently, Kevin DeMeritt, who is the founder and CEO of Lear, assisted the FBI in discovering a nationwide gold theft ring. And because of

Kevin's good work, the FBI caught these people before they could steal anymore. That's why I have been saying the people at Lear are good people. They believe in America. They believe in their product, and they're honest to the core. So take action right now, my friends. Call 800-511-4620 or go to learjudgenap.com. Protect your savings and retirement before it's too late. 800-511-4620, learjudgenap.com. Remember, hope is not a strategy, but gold is. Matt Ho, welcome back to the show, my dear friend. Thank you, as always, for your time. I want to discuss at some length with you your views on whether Israel is winning or losing the propaganda war. But before we do, the events in Kursk seem to be unraveling almost as we speak. What is your take on the latest there? My understanding of the latest is President Zelensky thinks he can use the geographical territory that he temporarily

occupies in Kursk as a bargaining chip with the Kremlin. Does this make sense from your understanding of the way the Kremlin works? It makes sense, Judge, and thanks for having me back on in my understanding of the various camps that are within the Ukrainian government that are also, you know, reflect the camps within the American and British governments of this idea that on a rational level, taking someone else's territory and then holding it in exchange for your own territory back during negotiations sounds practical, right? That sounds like no one should have any trouble understanding that, except that's not the reality of this. There's no rationality going on here. And what I really do believe, and others have said this as well, is that the effect of this incursion into Russia was

entirely political. It was a political stunt. It was meant to reinforce support for Ukraine in the West. Of course, it was important to try and jack up Ukrainian morale. There are probably some folks out there who believe this is somehow going to affect the Russians. Remember, there's this whole mindset, this whole narrative that dominated American policy towards Ukraine, that if we suck Russia into this war in Ukraine, this will cause such stress on Russia that there'll be an internal collapse and there'll be regime change. So there's probably some folks out there who actually did believe that if we do this, and this is what Western media was saying for a couple of weeks, how embarrassed Putin was. It shows how weak Putin is. And Putin has taken this in the most nonchalant manner of probably

any leader who's ever had his territory invaded. But the purpose was for the West. It was to reinforce this war, to allow this war to continue, to ensure that the West is going to continue to spend, send billions upon billions, hundreds of billions of dollars a year to keep the government in Kiev propped up, to keep this war going. There had to have been those who are astute enough and smart enough in Kiev, in London, in Washington, in Brussels, who understood that the result was going to be the Russians pull out of negotiations. So you can see this as a deliberate attempt to scuttle negotiations to keep the war going on. I think one of the big things that happens is that Joe Biden drops out of the race. And now it's no longer entirely clear.

It's not certain that Donald Trump is going to win, especially if you look at the polls. I know we've got a long way to go. But looking at that, then I think you go back a month and the Ukrainians are saying to themselves, look, either maybe we negotiate a deal now or we take whatever deal is handed to us when Donald Trump comes into office. Now, it's not entirely clear that Donald Trump is going to run away with this race. So maybe we can keep this war going. We keep this war going. It keeps us in power. And for those in the West, for NATO, of course, keeping the war going is it gives them their entire purpose. Their entire existence is predicated on having a purpose like Ukraine. We've said it before. It's like Jerusalem for them. They're going to have to take back the Donbass at some point, take back Crimea. you know, in a way, in a manner that is greater than maybe anything else we have seen so far in

this war in terms of how something was just so much a political stunt. And it's effective. You know, it's having the results, I think, that were intended. If Chris, if you could pop up that article from Politico, you know, this is from last Thursday or Friday in Politico. And I'll just read it out for people who are listening. Headline in Politico. And this summarizes the intended effect of this political stunt, of this demonstration. So Politico writes, Ukraine uses cursed success to press Biden on lifting weapons restrictions. And then the first paragraph is Ukraine's invasion of Russia has flipped the gloomy narrative on the war. And Kiev is using its battlefield success to launch a new pressure campaign on the US to lift the last restrictions on the use of long range

weapons inside Russia. And you can find this article, this narrative, this messaging throughout Western press. You know, I want to talk to you about propaganda and Israel, but look at the propaganda and Ukraine. And it's effective. This is over the top. Right. But to throw some cold water on what they said, here's the adult in the room, Sergei Lavrov, two hours ago, Matt, on a clip that we call The West is Looking for Trouble. The West does not want to avoid escalation.

The West, how we say in Russia, is looking for trouble. It is very important to understand that we have our own doctrine, including doctrine on the use of nuclear weapon, which, by the way, has been adjusted now. And American representatives are well aware about it. You know what Foreign Minister Lavrov means, Matt, when he says the Kremlin standards for the use of nuclear weapons has now been adjusted? It's a scary thing to consider, particularly in light that there is a report out last week by David Sanger in the New York Times where the United States has adjusted its nuclear weapons posture to reflect the possibility of fighting three simultaneous nuclear wars, which of course, three, it's absolutely madness, right? This idea that we fight a nuclear war with Russia, China, and North Korea, either in parallel or concurrently or in any fashion.

It's madness. It's madness that doesn't, it's not, it's not as historical though. We've seen this before. You know, during the Cuban missile crisis, the joint chiefs, if we had gone to a nuclear war with Russia, during the Cuban missile crisis, the joint chiefs, they were adamant that we also had to bomb China at the same time. Right? I mean, I mean, so this madness, this insanity is, this irrationality is, is pervasive. I heard you talking to Pepe just for a little bit before I came on, and he talked about how in Ukraine they are talking about taking St. Petersburg.

They're talking about attacking Moscow, things like that. Again, this madness, this irrationality, this insanity. And I've seen that in my own life. And when I got to Baghdad and I was on a State Department team in 2004, I got there early May of 2004. So more than a year after the invasion, things were going not well. The insurgency was that time it was called the Coalition Provisional Authority, you still had a majority of the people within that building, within the palace there, that were the leaders of the American effort in Iraq, who believed it was only a matter of time before things got straightened out, before the Iraqis calmed down. They all learned English and they all went along with us. It's just a matter of time. This insurgency thing was was no big deal. It's the press is making out to be bigger than it actually is. Right. I mean, and then you hear people judge. This is, again, May of 04 saying things like the real question we have to consider is, do we go right or left? Meaning like, do we go into Iran or into Syria next? So this madness, this fever that exists among these people in power when they are at war, and particularly when they are desperate, when they know that their entire fortunes, not only their legacy, but their future,

depends upon keeping the war going, they will say anything, they'll do anything, and more importantly, they'll believe anything. And I think that's what you're seeing with the Russians saying at this point in time, look, we understand this madness that we're confronted with. We see this. We see Ukraine sending drones to attack nuclear power plants. How else can we handle this? So we have to adjust. And we're not certain what that means, but they're informing us. They're trying to talk to us and trying to get us to back down, to pull away, to not drive us right over the cliff. The problem is the U.S. is in charge. And in this game of

chicken, Judge, right, this game of chicken that we're in here with Russia, the issue is that the thing that should scare everyone is that, yeah, we're taking part in a game of chicken, but we're not the ones in the car. The Ukrainians and the Europeans are. So you've got people like Jake Sullivan and Tony Blinken who are happy to play chicken with Russia because we're not at risk, according to them. And this is what the Russians are reacting to. In modern warfare, and you can segue into Gaza if you want, or you can use what you've just been talking about as an example to answer this, has propaganda become an end in itself? Oh, I think so, Judge. I think so. I think you have this understanding that perception is reality, and you see that reflected in all aspects of our lives. So why should the way that war is conducted be any different than anything else is done in

this world, particularly with our internet, with our phones and everything else? It's the perception that matters. It's the narrative that matters. You construct your policy to reinforce your narrative, right? I mean, this is what we have seen over and over again. I remember about a year ago, Judge, you and I did a show, and it was about how the Ukraine war was the most propagandized war of all time. And of course, October 7th happened, and now it's the second most propagandized war. But the idea that you use propaganda in a variety of different ways, but one of the most important ways is to speak to your own people. Propaganda certainly can be reflected outward, and it could also be done in a manner to try and condition and change minds on things, you know, and you saw that how that worked in the United States for decades with regards to Israel, because they were able to just kind of co-opt American media,

control American political leaders, so that we always had a very Israel first preference in the United States. And now over the last level of months, we have seen that completely be shattered. You know, the percent of Americans who support Israel has dropped by the double digits. You know, you had a poll last month that found that 56 percent of Americans do not want the United States military to help Israel if Israel is attacked. Is Israel losing the propaganda war? It's certainly losing the diplomatic war. It seems like the U.S. is the only country on the planet that backs it up right now. But is Israel losing the propaganda war?

And I'm going to expand the word propaganda to follow your definition, Matt. Not just the U.S., but the West and Israel itself. Right, exactly. I think so. They're clearly losing the propaganda, the information war in return to those who are outside of their own sphere, to those who are outside of their own constituency. We see that reflecting the polls. We see that in one nation after another lined up against them. We see the willingness of other nations who are lining up to support the axis of resistance. I mean, you're seeing that effect take hold. Just mentioned that poll here in the United States, it shows how Americans feel

about this. But even within its own constituency, so this internal propaganda, this inward projected propaganda, it has a secondary and tertiary effects that are cancerous, that are metastasizing, right, that are eating Israel alive. So what you have, and I think, you know, I think I heard you talking to Larry Johnson about Ronan Barr, who is the Shin Bet chief and Shin Bet's roughly like the FBI in Israel. The Shin Bet chief in Israel wrote this blistering letter to the Israeli government, to the prime minister, the cabinet, saying, you know, we are destroying ourselves here. And Haaretz had an editorial about that just a day or two ago. And, you know, you can see how this internal propaganda that is used to incite your own base, your own people, how within Israel, that now is causing these fractures, these fissures, these cracks

to really blow open. It's kind of this idea that everyone in Israel got what they wanted, or everyone in power in Israel, the majority of the population, got what they wanted on October 7th, an excuse to carry out their genocide, their ethnic cleansing, right? To do what they've wanted to do for decades, finished the job with respect to the Palestinians. And now they're kind of a dog with a bone. They don't know what to do. And all those internal divisions have now just exploded. And you have this, we talked about this last time, this prospect of civil war. I don't think it's a possibility, but you have this crumbling, this devolvement, this destruction within Israel caused by itself eating itself, right? I mean, so whether if you look at like the IDF, the state of the IDF, whether you look at the state of the economy, you look at the

political circumstances in Israel, this is why I think the actions of resistance, they may be planning more attacks. I think they're playing a long game. Why wouldn't they? Because Israel is destroying itself. Exactly. You mentioned the Haaretz editorial. The editorial was written by a retired IDF major general named Yitzhak Barik. You may know him or know of him. Here's a couple of the one-liners. Israel will collapse in a year. Netanyahu has decided to die with the Philistines. Netanyahu has lost his humanity, morality, norms, values, sense of responsibility.

Pretty damn. Could you imagine Mark Milley saying that about Joe Biden or Donald Trump or Kamala Harris? It's pretty damning. Well, and I actually was referring to the editorial board's editorial. So a separate editorial on Ha Ha Rats, it's saying the same sorts of things. And the way the newspaper starts off their editorial is, you know, it's great in the sense that, you know, all we can do is laugh at this at this point. It starts off by saying, in any normal country, and then it ends along the lines of,

we are standing on the edge of the abyss here looking at our own destruction. And certainly their words towards Netanyahu as the chief villain in this tragedy echo what the major general said in his. They were a little more polite. Are there violent confrontations of what in the U.S. would be called blue on blue, police against police. And I'm talking about Ben-Gavir's more fanatical police or militia, whatever you want to call them, and Ronan Barr and Shin Betts' people in the West Bank. I mean, you mentioned Ronan Barr. He referred to a fellow member of the cabinet as provoking Jewish terror.

Right, right. And that was the gist of this Haaretz editorial was about this idea about Jewish terror. And, you know, the scale of this, what we're looking at, when you look at the two main figureheads on the right, Itamar Ben-Gavir and Bezalel Smotris, Itamar Ben-Gavir is a national security minister. So he's in charge of the police, essentially. and Bezalel Smotris. Itamar Ben-Gavir is a national security minister. So he's in charge of the police, essentially.

He also has, as you were describing, Judge, his own paramilitaries, these settler movements, these religious Qohannes fanatics that are all extremely well-armed and they're not only emboldened, but they're protected and enabled by the police. If you look at that, you were shown last week the video of Ben-Gavir going to the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Temple Mount, and causing all kinds of problems with his followers. Who was escorting him through that?

It was the Israeli police, the people that work for Ben-Gavir. And then Bezal Smotrich, he's not just the finance minister. He's also got this role where he basically controls the occupied territories. So he has the administrative side as well as, you know, in the way the reporting works there, you know, not worth getting into, I guess. But to understand that it's not just their own militias, their own paramilitaries, the settlers that they have behind them. Let me just stop you. Those were police escorting him, like FBI agents? Yes, he'll have his own police. Well, you can see if it goes back out, you'll see police in uniform. But then also, too, certainly the police are the ones who provide the crowd control,

who are the ones who are openly armed, who are the ones who are going to arrest and take away anyone who interferes. And, you know, one of the things you have to also understand, we have to have to realize and contemplate here, this just didn't happen, right? You know, to, you know, this just didn't occur last week or on October 7th. You have had decades where you have had Israel administering this occupation. You have had decades of this othering, of this dehumanization of the Palestinian people. You have had millennia of this idea of Israel as God's chosen people. This idea that there's a magical real estate agent in the sky who says, this is your land and you could do whatever you want to take it.

And you should do it because that's what I command you to do. So, I mean, this is it. This is big. So what you have then is you have a police force, you have a border police, you have a government that has people going into it who that's their mindset is in the worst elements are the ones that also then pursue that. So if you say to a group of young men and women, who wants to go and beat up on the Palestinians, you'll be given a gun, you'll be given a salary, you'll be trained, and you will do your duty protecting us from them, keeping our people safe, keeping this covenant with our God, you can be a major, you'll be fulfilling your part in that. Those are the ones who sign up for it. So it's just not you have these religious fanatics, these reactionary radical figures at the top, but you also have it flushed throughout. What composes these forces are the very men and women who actually believe this as well

and believe that they have a righteous duty, that they are justified, right? And then, of course, you know, you think you have the settler class, which in the video now is showing, you know, these young men who very often are exempt from being in the security services. So outside of the security services, you then have this more extreme, this more radical, more reactionary religious element that of course believes that their violence is not just simply justified, but it's necessary that they have a divine responsibility to resort to violence, to utilize violence, if other methods don't work. And of course, what we've seen is just this continual evolution of this, this reinforcing of the use of violence for decades.

And now, of course, they just don't have the state sanction in it. They have the storyline of October 7th behind them as well. Two days ago, Hezbollah and Israel exchanged a fire. Israel claims it shot everything down. Hezbollah says some of its missiles got through. I don't know what the truthful answer is, but I want to ask you about the mentality of the Israeli military. Isn't the IDF sick of war? Doesn't the IDF itself generally recognize that it was humiliated in Gaza? The problem we have, Judge, is you do have those within the IDF who understand that, and they're feeling it. It's an army of reservists, and this has an impact on

the army itself, the military itself, and it also has a huge impact on the economy. When you have tens and tens of thousands of people being pulled out of the economy to serve in these roles, you know, has a, you know, this is why we say it's bleeding out. This is why we say it's destroying itself from within. One of many examples we can give, right? But with the IDF, certainly they are exhausted. They are taking part in a campaign that their generals no longer see the purposes in other than collective punishment and fulfilling the wishes of the far right reactionary religious class. So the IDF is in that position. They see themselves as those within the IDF, maybe there are, who do believe in a war with Hezbollah, but they know that they are undermanned, unprepared, untrained for that type of war because they've spent the last 10 months shooting men, women and again, you know, is who rises to the top? Who

takes advantage of the opportunity presented to them in these circumstances? I mean, look at, look, look at the, say, our Afghan war. We just, three years ago, when we left Afghanistan after 20 years of occupation. Look, I mean, there were men and women after men and women through all ranks of the officer corps of the United States military who felt that the war in Afghanistan was unwinnable. It had no purpose. We should get out. And how many of them actually said anything? And in those who did get out themselves, I don't want to be a part of this any longer. Well, guess who stayed in?

Right. I mean, you had your General Petraeus. You had your General McChrystal. You had your General Allen's. I mean, you had your general Petraeus, you had your general McChrystal, you had your general Allens. I mean, on and on and on. I mean, so what happens then is even there are those in the IDF who don't believe in the path that they're on. Well, they're just going to be surpassed by those who are willing to go along with the political orders from above. Right here is General Halivi, who's the official spokesperson for the IDF.

Now, he at one point did criticize Prime Minister Netanyahu, but not in this clip. Here he is just yesterday, cut number 11. We are very determined to continue degrading Hezbollah, eliminating more commanders and denying them assets and capabilities. We are not stopping. We are not stopping.

That's what Bibi wants to hear, but that's not what his troops under him are saying. That's what you're telling us. And that's actually the chief of staff as the head of the Israeli army. Right. General Levi. I confused him with the other general. Oh, with Hagari? Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's actually the chief of staff as the head of the Israeli army. Right. General Levi. I confused him with the other general. Oh, with Hagari? Yeah.

Right. Yeah, that's a terrible insult. But, yeah, I mean, you see this position that they put themselves in. And this is causing the political fractures to explode in Israel, right? Because there is no plan. And now that they got what they wanted, and since they got their genocide, what do we do with it? The IDF is in this position where it has to realize that we are arrayed up against an axis of resistance that is continually

being strengthened by outside nations, and they're continuing to move forward or move towards nations like Russia, like India, like Turkey, like China. And we have a weakened American empire behind us that's increasingly being isolated. We can go into a fortress Israel mentality, and that might be our future. But what we're going to lose in the meantime, and I think you have those who are true believers. I was thinking about this, because I was thinking about Afghanistan the other day. I mean, I think what ultimately might come of Israel

and its political leadership is that its political leadership, you know, five, 10, 15 years resembles the Afghan Taliban in a sense that nothing will move them. Nothing will change them, that they are dedicated to principles. They don't care if their people are starving. We're not going to allow humanitarian assistance in if that means that women have to be uncovered.

Now, the Israeli far right, the religious reactionary is different, of course, in their scope and everything. But you could see that type of mentality come to be in Israel, where it's just Israel versus everyone with the backing of the United States. I'm just curious. I don't know if you know this. Are there any female leaders of the Israeli hard right, or are they misogynistic just like the Taliban? Yeah, I'd ask Max or Aaron about that. There certainly are. There are those. They do have women among their top ranks, and you see them when you're in the Knesset. You hear them making statements. I can't tell you who they are. And yet, I would defer to go, Matt. Thank you very much. A terrific, terrific analysis. I know we're across the board, but the underlying theme is the use of propaganda to change the minds domestically and foreign policy wise. And it's hard to believe that Ukraine or Israel will succeed in that

battle, but they are trying. Right. When you have your policy is defined, when your policy is made to follow your narrative, this is what happens because eventually you have policy made up of make-believe. Right. And that's essentially what we're seeing happen, play out in Israel. And that's essentially what we're seeing play out

in Eastern Europe. And of course, the same thing will happen in Eastern Asia as well. Thank you, Matt. We'll see you again next week. All the best, my friend. All right. Thanks, Judge. Of course. Coming up at three o'clock Eastern, Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski at four o'clock Eastern, Professor John Mearsheimer. Please remember to like and subscribe. We have about 429,000 subscribers. Our goal is a half a million by Christmas. I'm sure you'll help us get there.

And if the folks who run YouTube strike us again, go to judgenap.com. You'll see all the links there about where and how to find us live and streaming. Hopefully that won't happen. Yeah, you won't need that. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.