Judging Freedom - Medea Benjamin: Does Antiwar Activism Move the Needle?

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

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Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, January 25th, 2024. Medea Benjamin, the co-founder and prime mover behind Code Pink, the country's foremost anti-war activist group, joins us today. Medea, I feel like we've known each other for a long time, aside from our chat before the show came on. This is the first time we've had a meaningful conversation. It's been my loss, but we'll make up for it. And thank you very much for joining us today. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you. And let me just say, not us today. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you.

And let me just say, not prime mover. There are many people in Code Pink, including a young generation now, and they're moving. Okay. I remember when one of the things Code Pink used to say was don't trust anybody over 30. So obviously, that chance has changed. You and I are significantly over 30. I want to start by running a clip of you. You've seen it. It's gone viral. But it's very telling about your intellect, your peacefulness, and your persistence. This is Congressman Jamie Raskin, whom I know from both of our prior lives as constitutional law professors

at accredited law schools, and you are just silently standing there. The irony of what you're saying compared to what he's saying almost looks like this was put together by Seinfeld or Saturday Night Live, except there's nothing funny about any of it. Okay, they just say that the coalition that put the press conference together where Jamie was is called Not Above the Law, and it was about January 6th. Okay, here we go. The political scientists tell us that the hallmarks of an authoritarian or fascist political party are that one, they do not accept the results of democratic elections that don't go their way two they refuse to renounce or they openly embrace

political violence as an instrument they hold israel accountable they accept Israel accountable. They accept. They're worse than Jan 6. Hold Israel accountable. Israel is not above the law. Hold it accountable. They accept. I'm sorry. Let me just start that again. How poignant for you, for the anti-war movement, and how humiliating for Congressman Raskin. Behind you was a woman with one of their signs not above the law. The only difference between your sign and hers was that yours said Israel on it, which is a truthful and accurate statement.

Even Netanyahu himself would claim, I think falsely, that Israel is not above the law. Of course, I should have said Israel should not be above the law, but yeah. Correct. When you do things like that, who or what is your audience? Well, in that case, the audience when there's a press conference is obviously the press, but I think it's important that we were sending a message to Jamie Raskin himself, because it took Representative Raskin a long time before he finally came out with a call for a ceasefire. It took people doing daily sit-ins in his office in Washington, D.C., regular protests at his district office. People were outside his house. And, you know, he is a great guy on many, many issues, as you well know. But on this issue, it took him a long time to even

utter the word ceasefire. So I thought it was also important to bring that message to him again and again and again. He is an American Jew. You are an American Jew. Is there some unique subliminal or overt pressure on American Jews to conform to the behavior of the IDF as commanded by the Netanyahu government? Well, there is certainly for many of the JewsF as commanded by the Netanyahu government? Well, there is certainly for many of the Jews in Congress, the AIPAC money that has helped put them in Congress, that keeps them in Congress. But for others, yes, there is an emotional connection to Israel. Many of the Jewish members of Congress have taken trips to Israel. They have led delegations to Israel. Israel has been part of their upbringing. I myself, when I was 16, was sent to live on a kibbutz. So many of us just have a very deep connection to Israel. So I think that, yes, but on the other hand,

because of the Holocaust, I think there is a special responsibility that Jews have to speak out against mass slaughter. And that's why we have been pushing people like Jamie Raskin, of course, because he's a congressperson, but also we wanted to get a Jewish member of Congress to speak out. He wasn't the first. There was a Becca Balint from Vermont who is the first Jewish member of Congress to speak out and call for a ceasefire. But I think it means a lot when there are Jewish members who are saying, enough, stop the slaughter, we have to question this unconditional aid to Israel. But being in favor of the right of Israel to exist or being a general supporter of Israel doesn't necessarily mean you have to support the slaughter. I don't get the connection there. I don't get the unwillingness of American Jews to recognize the horrific nature of what the IDF is doing.

We don't have to go into the details. We all know about it. It's slaughter, it's torture, it's genocide, as articulated in the International Court of Justice, we expect a ruling on that, by the way, tomorrow, is the emotional tie that a lot of American Jews have to Israel, beyond Israel, is it a tie also to whatever the current Israeli government wants to do? Because if that's the case, they really need to re-examine this. The current Israeli government contains fanatics that Netanyahu put in there in order to amass a majority in the Knesset, and they seem to be controlling what the government is doing, because without them, he doesn't have a majority. Well, as you know, Judge, there are millions and millions of Jews who have

joined groups like Jewish Voice for Peace and If Not Now and have been on the forefront of leading protests against the Israeli government. And I think that it's important to recognize the generational differences in younger Jews not having that attachment to Israel and being much more open to reality and the facts on the ground. So things are shifting and have been shifting within the Jewish community. It's just that the pro-Israel group has had a big head start in organizing, in getting funding. You know, they now say they're going to put $100 million into these elections to elect people who have a pro-Israel stance and try to take out those few members of Congress

who have been leading the way to try to stop this support for Israel. So it is not by any means all Jews. Unfortunately, it's Jews that are very powerful who have had an undue influence on our government. And that's something we're trying to stop. One of the things we're doing as we go to Congress, we take signs that show how much money these Congress people have taken from the pro-Israel lobby and start asking them, is this why you are supporting the slaughter? Because if you have any humanity, you wouldn't be doing it. So is it really just about dollars? Is it just about your election? And it makes them very uncomfortable when we bring those issues up and we say, they say, oh,

of course that has nothing to do with my positions. And we say, they say, oh, of course that has nothing to do with my positions. And we say, well, then stop taking money from these groups. Right, right. I want to, we're going to play a clip of you. You appear to be in the hallway of one of the Senate office buildings in Washington, and you approach Senator Rick Scott of Florida and Senator John Cornyn of Texas, both of whom received money from APEC. Senator Scott is one of the wealthiest members of the Congress. I don't know about the wealth of Senator Cornyn, but that's not the point. The point is they both take money from APEC and listen.

I'm sure you remember this. You were there. Listen to what they say to you in response to what you say to them. This is just about two weeks ago, I think. They did not. They did not. That's just propaganda to keep this war going. It's a genocide. We need a ceasefire. Will you please call for a ceasefire? Are you going to get Hamas to quit shooting innocent civilians? Well, it's the Israeli bombs that are killing thousands and thousands of people,

including children and women every single day. Now, the second gentleman with the white hair, Senator Cornyn of Texas, he did not respond to your correct statement about the bombs killing thousands and thousands. But I'm more interested in what the first gentleman, Senator Scott, said. He pretty much mouthed the propaganda that has been utterly disproven by everybody from the New York Times to Code Pink and everybody in between. There was no raping and there was no beheading of babies on October 7th. Here you have a member of the United States Senate going into a room where they are about to decide how much money to send to Israel. And this is his mindset. Well, actually, they were on their way into their twice-a-week briefings they get on the

Intelligence Committee. So who knows what kind of garbage they tell him in those meetings. But he not only said that two weeks ago, he said it yesterday when we confronted him in Congress. And I do want to say that we are in the halls of the Senate every single day. So your wide viewership, if anybody wants to join us, we meet in the Hart Senate lobby, 10 a.m. every day. Come on down. And it's so important to confront these senators and show them that this is not what the American people want. You know, from the polls, 66% of Americans saying they want a ceasefire. So many of these Democrats, we say 80% of the Democrats want a ceasefire. Who are you representing?

We go into the hearings. There are hearings today in the Foreign Affairs, Foreign Relations Committee. We go in with our hands painted red, showing them the blood on their hands. I think it's very, very important. And once in a while, we'll get a success such as Senator Van Hollen that just a few days ago called for a ceasefire. We go in and thank them, and then we go on, try to get the next one. How pervasive is the anti-war movement in the United States today? You just cited an interesting statistic, which I didn't know about. It goes mainstream media

doesn't want to cover it. Of course, I read a lot of things besides mainstream media, but I didn't know that stat. 66% want the war stopped. But when you and I were teenagers and in college, the anti-war movement was vast and enormous and pervasive. And on the front pages every day was against the Vietnam War. Times were different. There was a draft then. Thanks be to God, there's no draft now. But what is the oomph in the anti-war movement today in the U.S.? Yeah, well, as you said, during the days of Vietnam, it was very different when your loved ones were being sent off and brought back in body bags,

and that sure galvanized a whole generation. Today, I think people on the forefront tend to be from the Palestinian community, the Arab and the Muslim community, the Jewish community, but a lot of individual activists. We are very excited when we see the unions that are calling for a ceasefire, when we see teachers, there's a new group, Teachers Against Genocide. There's a lot of healthcare workers, a group in Washington, D.C. that comes into lobbies all the time called Doctors Against Genocide. There are many, many groups and individuals. We see that Biden can't go anywhere. You saw the rally that he

tried to do with Kamala Harris around reproductive rights. He was interrupted 14 times during that speech. He was at the UAW yesterday where he was getting the endorsement. And there were people in the audience who started chanting, stop the genocide. How many people have you killed? So wherever he goes, there are people and it could be in the hinterlands, it could be in Texas, it can be anywhere. So it's not as huge an anti-war movement as during the Vietnam days, but it's a very, very determined anti-war movement, a very vocal one, and I would say getting more and more organized. You made me think when you said how many people have you killed of that chant from the late 60s. Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids have you killed today?

How could you forget that? attacking Genocide Joe in a very, in my view, in a very, very effective series of rhetorical flourishes and red and pink hand imagery. I think this was yesterday, Madea. Cut 10, Chris. Genocide Joe, the blood is on your hands. President Biden, in these last terrifying three months, when we have witnessed the murder of over 10,000 precious Palestinian children, when we have heard their soul-wrenching cries trapped in the rubble, instead of demanding that Israel immediately stop this atrocity, you bypass Congress to send more weapons. Genocide, Joe. The blood is on your hands. President Biden, the overwhelming majority of countries came together at the UN to put an end to the slaughter, and instead you vetoed the UN resolution.

Genocide, Joe! And when your own campaign staff say that it is a moral and electoral imperative for you to publicly call for a ceasefire, please don't wonder why you've lost the support of the young people, the Muslim community, progressive Jews like myself. Time will not heal this wound. Come November, we will remember because genocide, Joe. But to counter these policies and those of Congress people in the pocket of AIPAC, just look around. We are building a beautiful, enormous, multi-generational, multi-ethnic groundswell of support for the

Palestinian people. One that will not be appeased or bought or contained or stopped, that will only keep growing and growing until Palestine is free. Free, free Palestine! Free, free Palestine! Free, free Palestine! Free, free Palestine! To say that you're articulate and courageous is to be guilty of an understatement.

Have there been any pressures trying to silence you or silence the group other than pushing you aside like those police did in front of Congressman Raskin? Well, we get arrested quite often and we get threatened. Yesterday, we were in the halls of Congress with a group called Teachers Against Genocide that brought in about 50 young people and 50 parents, about 100 of us. It was beautiful from toddlers to teens. And as soon as they started amassing in the hall of the Hart Building, the head of the police came in and said, you know, if they put out signs, if they protest, we will call child services and they will be arrested and they will have to go to juvenile court. And, you know, we said, stop. In fact, we put in a formal complaint and said, that's not

the way you talk to people who are coming to exercise their First Amendment rights. You say to them, good morning. Thank you for being here. You tell us what the rules are. You say that we will be given warnings, but you don't treat people like that. So the police can be very aggressive and we have to be constantly saying, no, actually we have rights and you have to respect them. We spoke about Congressman Raskin and about the congresswoman from Vermont, name escaping me for the moment. Have any Republicans resonated to your message? There are some libertarian Republicans, Congressman Massey in the House, Senator Paul in the Senate, who have spoken out against this. Congressman Paul was the only Republican to vote in favor of Senator Sanders' resolution. I forget what the resolution was. It lost 88 to 12, but something having-

It was just calling for a report within 30 days from the administration. Just a report about what's happening. Are any Republicans resonating to your message? No. I mean, Thomas Massie, you named, and Rand Paul will not call for a ceasefire. It is really remarkable to me that while there was a lot of growing opposition, and I was glad to see that in the Republican Party around the U.S. fueling the fires of the war in Ukraine. We don't see the same questioning when it comes to Israel. And that is very concerning because I think it does need to be bipartisan. And while there have been in the Senate now, it's only six senators that have come out with a call for a ceasefire out of 100.

None of them are Republicans, not even Rand Paul. It is extremely disturbing. And I think people who are listening to your show should be calling particularly those Republicans and asking them what is going on. Why are they questioning U.S. support for an ongoing proxy war in Ukraine? But why aren't they questioning that when it comes to Israel? On the Ukraine side, of course, we should say that the majority of Republicans, just like the majority of Democrats, are in favor of that war. And the $106 billion that will soon be voted on in the Congress includes the 61 billion for Ukraine, the 14 billion for Israel. And instead, they are spending their time fighting about the border

issues instead of bringing in these issues of why are we supporting these wars? Chris, do we have the clip of Max Blumenthal saying how quickly the war could end with a phone call? Okay, I'll do my best to paraphrase it. But before we get there, here is Secretary Blinken in Davos last week being questioned by Tom Friedman of the New York Times. This is Secretary Blinken on Gaza. This is him at his hand-wringing, fence-straddling worst. One of the things you hear so often from people, given the high civilian casualties in Gaza, is does the United States, do Jewish lives matter more than Palestinian and Muslim lives, and Palestinian Christian lives, given the incredible asymmetry

in casualties? And I've been asked that. I want to give you a chance to respond to that. No, period. For me, I think for so many of us what we're seeing every single day in Gaza is gut wrenching and the suffering we're seeing among innocent men

women and children breaks my heart the question is what is to be done? We've made judgments about how we thought we could be most effective in trying to shape this in ways to get more humanitarian assistance to people, to get better protections and minimize civilian casualties. And at every step along the way, not only have we impressed upon Israelis' responsibilities to do that, we've seen some progress in areas where, absent our engagement, I don't believe it would have happened. Now, here is a magnificent retort to that, even though the retort was taped before he said that, from one of your biggest fans and my friend and a regular on this show who will be on later today, Max Blumenthal, on how quickly, if Blinken really meant what he said, the war could be over.

Well, the Biden administration could end the occupation of Palestine tomorrow. They could have a Palestinian state while we're doing this live stream. All they have to do is say no more spare parts for your F-16s, no more F-35s, and it's over because Israel depends, its occupation depends entirely on its direct line to Washington. So Joe Biden could stop this almost literally in a heartbeat and almost literally with a phone call. I've taken so much of your time. It's been a delight to be with you, but I'll give you the last word. a lot of people watching this program who deeply and profoundly admire what you do and deeply and profoundly support this cause of peace. Well, I do have to respond to that clip of Blinken because it makes my blood boil. If there were 200 Israelis who were being killed every day, the U.S. would just go in there militarily and saying this can't happen. If there was one Israeli woman who was getting a cesarean section without

anesthesia, the U.S. press would be up in arms. If there was one child in Israel who was getting their leg amputated without any kind of anesthesia. Again, the press would be, this would be headline news. How could the world allow this to happen? So how could the world allow what is happening today? How could we be allowing our government to do this? How could we be allowing the president to keep and to be contemplating and asking for $14 billion more in the midst of this genocide. So it is totally unconscionable. And we have to do more to stop it. So I am very happy for this opportunity that I've had this morning to speak with you and your audience and just encourage anybody or everybody to do more than you're doing now, to let our government know that this is just unacceptable.

We won't allow our tax dollars to be sent to contribute to this genocide. And we will remember in November. Medea Benjamin, a hero personified, a great champion of peace in the United States and around the world. Thank you very much for joining us, my friend. I hope you'll come back again one day soon. I would love to. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Of course.

Later today, my dear friends, at 2 o'clock, back in the United States, filled with bluster and ready to explode, Scott Ritter. At 3 o'clock, the aforementioned Max Blumenthal. And at four o'clock, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson. We'll see you later today. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thanks for watching!