Judging Freedom - Nordstream Pipeline Blasts - What Makes Sense_

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, March 16, 2023. It's about one o'clock in the afternoon here on the east coast of the United States. Our guest today is Sergeant Major Mike Vining. Sergeant Mike has a 31-year career in the United States Army, going all the way back to the Vietnam War era. He is an expert on explosives. In fact, he's been described to us by one of our regular on-air personalities, Scott Ritter, as the country's foremost military authority on explosives. And we bring him on to talk about the explosion at the Nord Stream pipelines at the bottom of the Baltic Sea. Sergeant Mike, it's a pleasure. Welcome to the show, my friend. Well, thanks for inviting me. So the Nord Stream Pipeline explosion, which Cy Hirsch has opined in a 19-page investigative report, was perpetrated by the U.S. Army and the CIA, which the United States government officially denies,

which President Putin says could only have been perpetrated by the U.S., and which Danish and Swedish authorities say could only have been pulled off by a government. Could this have been pulled off by a renegade group or is it of such a magnitude that only a government could have amassed the manpower and the material necessary to do this? Well, yeah, that's a good question. The amount of explosives that I have heard that was used, I've heard of something like 2000 kilograms of explosives that were possibly used, military grade explosives. How did, access to that amount of explosives,

if that's a true statement, you know, it's hard to get, you know, unless you theft from, say, you know, from mining. You know, I just don't know. so is this is this the type of is this the type of uh work uh that navy seals would do uh swim to the bottom of the ocean and pack at the orders of the president of course pack a uh a pipeline with this kind of uh explosive devices and then detonate it three months later? Does the US government do these things? Well, as far as do they do this, I don't have any knowledge that they do this. Do they have the tools and techniques to do something like this? Oh, yeah. No doubt that we have the tools and techniques, but would we practice this? I don't know. There's different ways of tackling the pipeline.

There's different ways of tackling it with explosives, depending on what your objective is. You know, we have charges that we can use underwater underwater and we can cut pipe underwater with shape charges. And we can use shape charges, whether they be linear or point shape charges. And we can set up a series of shape charges that will be detonated sequentially by concussion. So we can make multiple perforations. There's just so much, you know, ways that we can tackle a problem. What what is a what is a shape charge, Sarge? Well, shape charges was is a direction of war.

It was first, it's called the Moreau effect. It was first, you know, discovered during the Civil War time period. It wasn't really used until World War I. You know, in Germany, in World War I, it created shape charges that took out some of the fortifications in the French defense in World War I and using shape charges. So it is a cone or a linear liner that's inverted and explosives at night. And this cone causes the directional force for the explosive waves to mock stem to gather together. And the liner adds to it. And if you use copper as a liner, it becomes a molten, hot molten fragment and it cuts through.

And we have all kinds of shape charges. We have shape charges that are lead-shaped charges, copper, aluminum. And do these things work underwater? Oh, yes. The only thing you've got to do is you've got to have a void. The shape charge has to focus its cutting power. It's like a torch. And it needs an air gap, a void to form. If there's water in air gap, then it won't. But yes, we have underwater shape charges that we

use underwater. Reuters recently came out with the latest information on this, which shows some films that have rarely been seen. They were just made available the other day. A lady with a British accent narrating it, but I want you to take a look at this. It's about a minute long. Powerful explosions damaged the two Nord Stream gas pipelines. That was according to Danish police on Tuesday. They echoed earlier findings into leaks that erupted in the network.

Swedish newspaper Expressen released video which it says is the first publicly available footage of damage to the system. Filmed from a private drone, it appeared to show a gaping rupture. Expressen said a 164-foot section was missing from one stretch of the Nord Stream 1 pipeline. Reuters could not independently verify that the images were of that pipeline. Swedish and Danish authorities are investigating four holes in the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines, which link Russia and Western Europe. The leaks have become a flashpoint in the Ukraine crisis. World leaders have called the damages an act of sabotage, but it still remains unclear who might be behind the detonations. Okay, my friends, if you've just joined us, we're talking to Sergeant Major Mike Vining, one of the military's foremost experts, retired, on explosives.

So, Sarge, the report is that a 164-foot length portion of that pipeline was gone. What does that tell you about the amount of explosives that were used and the sophistication behind the plan to attack the pipeline? Yeah, I heard the same thing about 50 meter section being missing. That just tells me is probably brute force. It wasn't surgical. And like I said, I heard, you know, I read that estimated explosive force was around 2000 kilograms. And so that's a large amount of explosives. It definitely wasn't surgical. You know, if I was involved in the operation somehow, I would try to make it not so obvious as to how it was, you know, burst, the pipe was burst. For one thing, there's a lot of unexploded ordnance in the seabed in that region. One of the things they did when they laid the pipeline is they cleared both sides of the pipeline.

I read up to 500 meters of any unexploded ordnance from World War II that was there. What I might have done if it was me, I would simply say, let's take a German, you know, you know, thousand kilogram bomb and place it next to World War II vintage German bomb and place it next to the pipeline and set it off. And then there would be bomb fragments from the bomb. And so you can say, hmm, somehow a German bomb from World War II got up against the pipeline and decided to explode. You know, how did it get there? But I would do something that wasn't so overt and to make it seem like it was some accident. Is there explosive material likely to have remained on site or would all of it have been detonated. Well, I was told that it would be that they cleared 500 meters either side of the pipeline when they laid it of any unexploded ordinance.

No, I'm talking about unexploded ordinance from the planned destruction of the pipeline. Well, using unexploded ordnance as to detonate the thing, would there be remnants? In other words, whatever they packed the pipeline with, if you follow Cy Hersh's theory, whatever the SEALs and the CIA packed the pipeline with, Did all of it explode or is there still unexploded material down there that they put there last June? I would say that using

high-grade explosives properly boosted, it probably detonated. You know, explosives do age over time that explosives have a shelf life and as they deteriorate come become not necessarily some explosives become more sensitive with age but most explosives become desensitized with age and therefore you have incomplete or we call low order detonation but this is probably it probably all detonated and

it probably was just bulk explosives so there probably wasn't no casing material I've seen pictures of the crater on the stead from the explosions, and it just looks like it was a bulk, a lot. We have explosive formulas, and T equals pounds of explosives, and T and T when we calculate the explosive forward. But in some cases, P equals plenty. And it looked like in this case, P is plenty. They used a lot of explosives. It's not surgical.

This is not a surgical operation. What would be the advantage, if any, of it being surgical? Well, it would, what would be the advantage? You can, you can do the same effect, less amount of explosives, you know, using shape charges and cutting, cutting sections of pipe out. Did they try to make this look like it was some sort of an accident, or was this obvious to even the untrained eye that it was an intentional explosion planned and executed by somebody who had the means to do so. Yeah, it appears that there was no attempt to hide how it was destroyed, you know, using bulk explosives. There was no attempt.

So, you know, I really don't know. I mean, I don't know. I have read about that in the news. I have no insight. What I would like you to do, like, for example, with pipe, I would go down and cut a section of the pipe where the brake is, analyze the brake, and do a lot of different tests. And you can take a sample of the residue that's on a seabed board, the seabed residue,

and determine exactly what explosives it is. Let's say it's composition C4. Well, we can tell the difference between our American composition C4 and German or Dutch composition C4. They all make composition C4, not just the United States. But chemically, there's things that you can tell about the source or origin of the explosives. Who is the manufacturer from the residue? Got it. Got it.

I'm sure people are taking samples. People might be hiding the samples. Who knows? Sergeant Major Mike Vining, United States Army retired explosives expert. It's been a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you for your expertise and thank you for your time, Sarge. Well, thank you. Of course.

More as we get it. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.