Judging Freedom - Palestinians and Ukrainians join others as victims of US foreign policy. w/ Matt Hoh

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Palestinians and Ukrainians join others as victims of US foreign policy. w/ Matt HohSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Resolve to earn your degree in the new year in the Bay with WGU. With courses available online 24-7 and monthly start dates, WGU offers maximum flexibility so you can focus on your future. Learn more at wgu.edu. Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, October 17th, 2023. Our good friend Matthew Ho joins us now. Matt, always a pleasure. No matter what we're talking about, welcome back to the show. Much appreciated. As we were preparing to come on air, you informed me

of news reports that the Israeli military had bombed a hospital in gaza as i understand it there's no conceivable justification for such a war crime no absolutely not uh the news as it's breaking and and hopefully first reports are wrong, as they often are. But Al Jazeera was reporting possibly 500 killed. And this would have done with American supply bombs dropped from American supplied aircraft as the president of the United States packs his bags to go to Israel tonight. There's no justification for this. It's even made worse by the fact that this occurred in southern Gaza. So this is where the Israelis told the people of northern Gaza to evacuate to. Right. I mean, so all of this is just one more war crime on top of just a foundation

of gross violations of international law. And, you know, as a former U.S. Marine, a former member of the military, someone who was part of the State Department as well, I am embarrassed and ashamed at how the U.S. military and the diplomatic core of the United States is going along with this ethnic cleansing. This is such a stain. It's not like, as everyone watching and listening knows, it's not like we have some grand place to stand upon in terms of the moral successes of the United States in its foreign policy. But this is just another iteration of the United States for purposes that are obscure, that are corrupt, are craven,

or just related to domestic political concerns, either conducting, enabling, or going along with atrocity after atrocity. And this is the latest one here in Palestine. And, you know, the connection here between all these different wars, whether it be Ukraine or whether it be Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria, it's happening in Palestine, is that this is all coming from a militarized U.S. foreign policy that just brings tremendous amounts of harm to people, destroys entire people. And it doesn't make the United States any safer. It makes us less safe. What do you think is the, I mean, Netanyahu, Bibi Netanyahu, the prime minister, is not dumb. What do you think the purpose of such horrific ethnic cleansing is? I mean, his goal is to wipe out Hamas or at least kill the leadership or at least suppress them. So an attack like the Israelis suffered 10 days ago can't happen again.

How was that goal served by killing patients and doctors in a hospital? It's not. It's not. And killing Hamas, which is a creature that comes from Israel's occupation, it's a creature of resistance. And yes, it's a reactionary religious group that I have no interest in supporting. But I think anyone who has a shred of objectivity here understands that it is a formation that exists because of Israel's occupation of the Palestinians. I don't think there is many people in Israel, particularly at the senior levels, maybe they have some people that are not that bright, but they must understand that there is no way that you can kill an ideology. There's no way you can kill a spirit of national liberation. And I think what you're seeing here happening in Gaza is two things. One, it's collective punishment.

It is simply just that it's revenge. It's vengeance. It's killing those who had it, who who are standing up against them. And that no way that, of course course in no way endorses what occurred on October 7th. But I don't think you can understand what occurred on October 7th without understanding everything that brought those people to that point. And then the other point- Give us a nutshell description of everything that brought us to that point, from the Zionist militias in 1947, wiping out hundreds of Palestine villages, to the Netanyahu government creating an open-air

concentration camp in Gaza. Right. And so what you see in Gaza is exactly that. You see a reality that is structured from the Nakba, which is what the Palestinians call that great catastrophe in the late 40s, where three quarters of a million Palestinians were made refugees. million, violently expelled from their home by the Israeli, the nascent Israeli military and militia groups. And today in Gaza, 70% of people in Gaza are refugees. Their parents, their grandparents, their great-grandparents came to Gaza because they were violently expelled from their home. And this is just a simple case of a people that are occupied. And what we saw on October 7th were many Hamas fighters breaking out of prison, as we, you know, as rightly described, and going into towns and villages that were once the towns and villages of their grandparents and great-grandparents. I mean, this is a cycle, and this idea that a military solution is possible is just inane. I'm getting back to this idea of going into Gaza. What does it accomplish? I think what

eventually, besides the punishment, Judge, you're looking at here, the desire of many in Israel, and this is no secret, you have cabinet ministers who have said these things for some type of final conclusion to the issue of the Gazans. And that means ethnically cleansing the place, the finance minister of Israel. So we're talking senior people here, Basil Smotrich, his view on Gaza is shared by many in power throughout Israel, is that we should go in there. We should give the Gazans three choices, either swear allegiance to us, leave, or be killed. And I think you're seeing that policy, the opening phase of that policy become real. What do you think Hamas's goal was by this attack? Surely they knew they're not going to overthrow the government of Israel,

they're not going to take over the state of Israel. the Israeli military and technological and financial support is overwhelming compared to theirs. But was their goal maybe Arab outrage, maybe a discussion about a Palestinian state, maybe to bring out the worst, which they apparently were seeing now in the Netanyahu government? What do you think when they thought about this and planned it other than misery and harm, what do you think their goal was? I think there's a collection of reasons. Some of it, again, rooted in resistance, rooted in a desire to fight the occupation, rooted in the fact that so many of,500 Hamas fighters who broke out two weeks ago or a week and a half ago have family, have friends, neighbors who have been killed by Israel. And we see that over and over again.

We knew this in Iraq. We knew this in Afghanistan. We see this in, say, the terror groups all through Africa. Young men and women join these groups not for ideological or religious convictions, but because they have been harmed by a government or by foreign forces. We see this over and over again. I think there is some degree of Hamas on a larger geopolitical level saying we're not going to be ignored. And what you've seen happen over the last several years, beginning under the Trump administration and then continuing under the Biden administration, this policy of normalizing

relations between Arab countries and Israel, and most notably now the potential normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, this was Hamas's way of saying, we will not be ignored. You can try and move on without us. You can try and sideline us, but we will not be ignored. You can try and move on without us. You can try and sideline us, but we will not be ignored. So that may be a factor as well. Perhaps there's some who think that they can suck Israel into a brutal, bloody, ugly, urban battle and humiliate them. And then there's also two, I think, domestic political reasons. Hamas wants to shore up their own internal support. There's a culture of martyrdom that exists as well that we can't, you know, dismiss too. You know, when you are a people that are kept in those conditions,

that are kept under siege, under blockade, or tortured in that way, where thousands of your neighbors, your friends, your family have been killed and wounded, then, you know, what hope do you have? And that resistance comes out, you know, as you push at people, as you stress at people, as you oppress at people, the resistance is going to grow, right, exponentially in relation to that. Right. We're going to take a break. When we come back, I will ask Matt Ho, how risky and dangerous and nearly impossible will a guerrilla war be for the Israeli military once they do enter Gaza? But first this. There is an organization that still backs Obamacare, gun control, and extreme transgender policies that endanger our kids. They claim to be bipartisan, but last year, 95% of their donations went to the Democrats. AARP does not represent the values of conservative American seniors.

Fortunately, there's a conservative alternative. AMAC, the Association of Mature American Citizens, Thank you. integrity. With more than 2 million members nationwide, AMAC is proudly pro-family, pro-faith, and pro-freedom. I'm proud to endorse AMAC, and I encourage you to join today. Let's send AARP a strong message that they don't represent conservative American seniors. Join AMAC today today at amac.us forward slash judge. That's amac.us forward slash j-u-d-g-e. What do you think the Israeli military will do? I mean, level northern Gaza back to the Stone Age, or will they engage in a house by house, building by building, tunnel by tunnel, search for Hamas, people who look just like the rest of us and don't wear uniforms, and then capture them or kill them? I would expect they would, you know, doctrinally, I believe, you know, some type of something like this would call for a massive aerial bombardment, a carpet bombing. We've seen a degree of that. Look, the Israeli Air Force is killing 100 Palestinian children a day.

Again, with American supply bombs from American supplied aircraft, right, from F-15s, F-16s, F-35s, you know. So our role in this is very, very real. And so I would expect that they will level the place as best they can before sending in their infantry backed by armored units, utilizing special operation forces to try and locate tunnels, command and control centers. But you have to believe that if Hamas prepared so well for possibly at least for at least two years, probably I would get to launch that attack on October 7th, they also prepared for what and how Israel was going to respond. So you can imagine circumstances and situations where say the Israelis get themselves stuck, where they lose helicopters, they lose platoons of troops because they have gone

into a well-prepared Hamas ambush. So, and you know, I'm hearing this more and more, the Israeli army, we talked about this last week, the Israeli army has spent how much of its time over the last couple decades shooting teenagers who are throwing rocks. And I've seen this from more and more commentators, more and more commentators, more and more people who know the Israeli army who say the Israeli army may not be prepared to launch this type of battle. And so again, was this Hamas's plan or part of their plan to suck Israel into a bloody, awful urban battle? But if that happens, the catastrophe that's going to befall the Palestinian people as horrific as it is now is only going to worsen.

So the Israeli military is two thirds reservists. Are they even trained in guerrilla warfare? You've been through this. Isn't guerrilla warfare the most testing, difficult, foul, dangerous, dirty, disgusting, whatever you want to call it? The type of military behavior you can imagine. Fighting in a built-up area, as we called it, is extremely difficult. The canyons that occur because of these buildings, the ability for people to hide, the way sound travels, you don't know where someone's shooting at you from because of sound. I mean, so my experiences in places like Haditha and Haqqaniyya and other places, you know, other guys have experience in Baghdad and Fallujah, Mosul is incredibly difficult.

It's a nightmare. You're hoping to God you're not going to kill your own fellow Marines and soldiers because everything can happen so quickly. There's so much confusion. Again, it's hard to orient at times. It is very difficult. And in the presence of civilians, and I'll say this too, I've been in Israel and Palestine. I've been around the Israeli defense forces. They, again, yeah, reservists and then conscripts. They are not well trained. You see, if you take a close look at any of the Israeli soldiers, you will very often see that they have extra safeties on their weapons to prevent knuckles and discharges. Oftentimes they'll have a device put into the bolt of the weapon

to prevent them from firing accidentally or negligently the weapon. So the level of training, again, because it's an army of occupation, it's meant to shoot at people who are throwing stones and possibly a Molotov cocktail. They are not prepared for this.

We saw that performance in 2006 when Israel invaded southern Lebanon was universally rated as poor. The Israelis themselves said it was poorly executed. They performed poorly. I don't see where they have gotten to a point where they would have improved. And again, we talked about this last week, Judge, the overall corruption of that institution, the overall corruption of the Israeli government, that has effects that trickles down through that institution. Everyone who's been a part of things like this knows that whole idea of the fish rots at the head. It's exactly the case. And so what do you have here that's possibly going into Gaza? You have conscripts and reservists who haven't been

prepared for this, who are being forced in either on the back of emotion, because we have to get revenge, we have to punish people, or to fulfill this Zionist ideal of an expanded, enlarged, greater Israel, right? So those two, either of those things are not where you want to be in terms of if you're leading or taking part in a campaign. Those are the motivations for those who are sending us revenge or fear or this idea that we have to have what God gave us 3,000 years ago. We're going to realize it now. I, for one, would not lead troops into combat if that was what was pushing me. I mean, I made my mistakes in the past, of course.

You can see I did that when I went to Iraq. You know what I'm saying? You know, I mean, the emotion. You're more than atoned for that, Matt. I want to segue toward Ukraine because the war is still going on. We'll start with President Biden. He's actually a little bit more articulate than usual, but the moral judgment that he makes in this clip will outrage you. This is Scott Pelley

on 60 Minutes asking President Biden, how can the U.S. wage, defend, participate in two wars at once? Are the wars in Israel and Ukraine more than the United States can take on at the same time? We're the United States of America, for God's sake. The most powerful nation in the history, not in the world, in the history of the world. The history of the world. We can take care of both of these and still maintain our overall international defense. Boy, that is the empire argument, if ever I heard it. We're the United States of America, for God's sakes. What is he talking about?

Does he remember Vietnam? Does he remember Afghanistan? Does he remember Iraq? No, he's writing the history of World War II, the mythology that the United States has taken on to describe itself and to, you know, move itself forward over these decades that have allowed for things like Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, this idea that somehow the Ukrainian army is going to defeat the Russian army, you know, and yeah, I'm reminded Babe Ruth had this saying that yesterday's home runs don't win today's ball games, right? And World War II is what dominates how Washington, D.C., the foreign policy elite, see the United States and see themselves. And I guarantee you, Judge, remember we were talking a few weeks ago about how one of the first Biden election campaign ads was of him visiting Kiev, right? And him

as his wartime commander in chief. I guarantee you that is what they're going to roll out after he visits Netanyahu and his cabinet tomorrow in Israel. Again, the day after the Israelis slaughter 500 people in a hospital, again, with American supply bombs. So I think it's how they view themselves as well as that they are somehow, they are the progeny of the men who won the war. Going to the core of what President Biden said, has the American government effectively, has the West effectively given up on Ukraine? We all know that the spring offensive renamed summer offensive was a failure. We all know the Russians are moving westward. You don't see that in mainstream media because everything is Israel and Hamas, understandably, here in the West.

But we still have a $100 billion investment, half a million human beings dead because we didn't allow peace talks. Where's Ukraine going or coming to as we speak, Matt? Well, you know, I can make the point as well, and I didn't think it happened so quickly, you know, for the Ukrainians that the Afghans are going through right now, where as soon as you're not politically convenient, as soon as you're not politically useful, you will be pushed to the side and forgotten. And I mean, as you said, Judge, there's been almost no mention of Ukraine in mainstream media. The Wall Street Journal did have an article today about how Russia is launching an offensive in the Kupyansk region in the northeast part of the front. And, you know, I mean, so there was some mention that this thing is still going on, but yeah, it's, it's, I think, you know, you take a walk around your neighborhood,

you don't see the blue and yellow Ukrainian flags like it used to. And I mean, so this war against the Gazans, against the Palestinians is the opportunity to get away from this failed war in Ukraine. Just as I think as Halloween is coming up and Thanksgiving and Christmas, it gives people an excuse to take down their Ukrainian flags and put up a pumpkin flag or put up a Santa Claus thing or whatever, right? It's your way of getting out of that past support that you no longer want to own up to. I think what you're going to see here as well, but the amount invested in this and the continuing amount of all these wars, as this thing continues to roll forward, this militarized foreign policy, look at this crisis in the House of Representatives.

We don't have a speaker. What does that come back to? It comes back to funding that $113 billion for the Ukraine war. But then overall too, what are we talking about? We're talking about the national debt. And we're going to spend $700 billion a year this year on interest payments on the national debt. You know what makes up the biggest chunk of that national debt? Past military spending and past war spending. That's we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year

on interest payments for wars in the past, for military spending in the past. So all this has an effect, whether it's on in terms of destroying people, like the people of Ukraine, the Palestinians, the Iraqis, or in a sense of making things politically, economically, and long-term investment in the U.S. impossible because we're tied into these wars, into this militarism, into these defense budgets, and it's a racket. Joe Biden can beat his chest and do his best impression of how, you know, he is the second coming of Franklin D. Roosevelt or Churchill or whoever he wants to be, you know, but this is what the rest of us have to live with are the consequences of these failed wars and these trillions of dollars

in military spending, which has delivered nothing except death and destruction for those overseas, a lot of pain for a lot of veterans and their families in this country, and of course, an economy that has been completely hollowed out. Matt Ho, thank you very much. As difficult as these subjects are, you're candid and articulate and courageous. Very much appreciate you joining us. We'll see you again next week.

Thanks, Judge. Okay. Judging Freedom, Scott Ritter, four o'clock Eastern coming up. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.