Judging Freedom - PATRICK LANCASTER: Eye Witness of Ukraine Attack on Civilian Marketplace

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

PATRICK LANCASTER: Eye Witness of Ukraine Attack on Civilian MarketplaceSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for a rare Sunday segment of Judging Freedom. Patrick Lancaster joins us live from Ukraine. You'll understand in just a moment why we're on on Sunday and why Patrick is here. Patrick reached out to our production team before the sun came up here in the U.S. to inform us of a Russian attack on an open-air market in Donetsk. He rushed to the scene and you will soon see videos and still shots of what Patrick observed and sent to us. Obviously we have blurred out areas that we are not permitted to air on YouTube and we understand YouTube's regulations

and what we've blurred out are the dead bodies. So watching this will be blurred, but safe for your eyes. Patrick, my dear friend, thank you for reaching out to us. Our audience thanks you and welcome to Judging Freedom. So what happened? What did you do? And why did you call us so early on a Sunday morning? All right. Well, to start off, thanks again, as normal, Judge, for having me. It's always a pleasure to be on here, and I'm glad you helped me show more people what's happening here. But I've got to correct you on one thing. You said a Russian attack. Now, this attack, unfortunately- The Ukraine attack. Forgive me, I misspoken my excitement about having you on. A Ukraine attack on Russian civilians in an open air market.

Yes. So basically this is a continuation of the attacks by Ukrainian forces on the civilian population of Donetsk. Now this attack happened in the morning and I received information that there was an attack. The first information coming to me was that there was around eight civilians unfortunately killed. So I raced to the scene and unfortunately arriving on the scene, I quickly realized that the initial reports of eight civilians killed was incorrect. Because right away, I just started counting. And unfortunately, throughout the day, I myself witnessed 22 dead civilians, all in the very small area, 21 of those in a small area, and then one more a little bit farther away. And the official numbers are here that there was 25 killed in this attack. Of course, you know, sometimes I don't see exactly every place, but I myself can confirm 22 dead civilians that I saw with my own eyes.

I did my best to document this situation. And I believe you have translations from the Russian. And I spoke to some of these locals here that live there that Ukraine says is Ukrainians and they say they're Russians. But they said that Ukraine knew that this being a Sunday morning, that this market would be full of people and very busy. And these local civilians say that Ukraine targeted these civilians in this market to maximize the civilian casualties as much as possible. Now, these are not my opinions or my words. These are words of the civilians I interviewed on the site that live in this area. And they as well told me that they consider this Ukraine trying to do genocide on these people here.

Now, this isn't the first opinions that I've got from these locals. This is the general idea locals have to say about this. Now this attack is the most severe in almost two years on the civilian population of Donetsk. Just under two years ago, the Ukraine launched a cluster bomb on the center of Donetsk, which I was there reported that it killed several dozen people

and injured dozens more now again the this attack is uh reported to have 25 more now this is one of the top attacks on the civilian population of donetsk in the last 10 years of this war now again this war has been going on for 10 years. It's not just the two years like the Western media would like the people to think. So I'm just here as I have been reporting on this situation for almost 10 years now, trying to show as many people around the world what I see with my own eyes here. And I tell these people, don't just watch my reports, watch reports from both sides, but don't just watch one source. No one source can give you all of the information. All right. Before we get to the videos and still photos that you sent us, let's take a step back from what happened. What is Donetsk and where is Donetsk? And is this a part of what the Ukrainians

say is Ukraine, what the Russians say is Russia, but what the Ukrainians have been bombing and shelling for years and years preceding the special military operation where the Russian troops moved west? Yes. Donetsk is the capital of what Ukraine considers the Donetsk region of southeastern Ukraine. But the local population considers it the Donetsk People's Republic. Well, that's what they had considered it for the last nine years. But then in September of 2022, the local population voted to join Russia, just like the other three regions, Lugansk, Kherson, and Zaporozhye. Now, these are the four contested regions that Russian law says is part of Russia, Ukrainian law in the West says is part of Ukraine. But most importantly, the local population says they are Russian and part of Russia. They had

their first referendum to break away from Ukraine in 2014, and that is what preceded almost a 10-year war now. The people tried to give the right of self-determination by having a vote to break away from Ukraine. I was there. I showed the reports, and Ukraine punished them for this and has been bombing the civilian population. This war has been going on for almost 10 years. Of course, Russia did not come in until February of 2022. But before that, for eight years, the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics formed their own military, formed their own governments from what was left from the Ukraine that they consider is a dead Ukraine, not their Ukraine, because if they're Biden in 2014, they consider their president that they voted in, Yanukovych, to be pulled out of office without their say. So they believe their Ukraine is gone.

And that's why they voted to break away from Ukraine in 2014 and years later voted to join Russia. And that's where we are. This is the capital, Donetsk, of the Donetsk People's Republic region of what Russian law considers part of Russia. And Ukraine considers part of Ukraine. I know you're a journalist and not a military analyst. And we'll talk to Colonel McGregor and Scott Ritter and Matt Ho about this during the week, and Colonel Kwiatkowski as well, all of our military folks, Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern also. benefit is there to attacking an open air food market on a Sunday morning in the downtown area of a city? The local population, I asked them this, they said that they do it to bring the morale down of the people. Now, one could think that maybe they could be trying to get a reaction or leave. A terrorist type of attack. I mean, there's no question that massacring 25 people at a market.

I mean, on Sunday morning when people are out trying to feed their family, he would sell honey and cottage cheese. His table stood almost untouched, but he laid on the ground, bled out. And as well as the person right next to him who was selling oranges and many dozens of people around them just killed for no good reason. Yes, what military reason could there be to attack and kill these people? The locals said there was no military target possible around there. And this isn't the first time this market has been hit. I mean, this is a market that's hit several times. This is something that Ukraine does.

Every single hotel in Donetsk has been hit once or twice. Every single market in Donetsk has been hit and people have been killed at every single market. You could go from the train station market to the central market to the testicle market, as they call this one. Every single outdoor market in Donetsk have had people die at the hands of Ukraine. Every hotel, almost all businesses in the center have been hit by Ukrainian attacks. And most of these are done, especially in the last two years, are done with the weapons that the West and NATO countries have given to Ukraine. All right, we're going to start with the videos and stills that you sent us. Now, for folks watching us, Chris has blurred out the bodies,

since, of course, we are not permitted to show videos or stills of dead bodies on YouTube. We respect YouTube's regulations. So you will see, Patrick, you'll see the bodies. You'll see all of this blurred. And because you can't watch this blurred stuff very long, Patrick and I will start talking over it, and then we'll stop the videos. But just to give you a feel.

So tell us what you... Let's start with the nine ten eleven right now we're in the textile chick We are in the beginning of the market here. A civilian neighborhood, civilian area. And not long ago this morning, Ukraine forces opened fire on this civilian market. And as you can see behind me, the carnage is horrible. Here's a man who is just selling honey. Here at this table. He's dead.

If we can take it forward. You see another couple of people here possibly buying their food. I mean, it's a Sunday morning where everybody's out at the market buying food for their family. on donetsk and to my knowledge the biggest since march of last year or uh almost two years ago now uh when ukraine launched a cluster bomb on the center of donetsk killing dozens and injuring dozens more we were on the scene for that as well bringing all right so um All right. So you actually walked through this market, Patrick, and counted the dead bodies. Were authorities there? Were medical facilities there? Were people there trying to save the wounded and injured? Or did you get there first? Actually, I arrived a little bit after the injured parties were already evacuated. And unfortunately, after all that had passed, passed. Now, there were police, military inspectors, and eventually the people that were there to remove the dead bodies also came. I think we're losing you, Patrick. All right, I'm just going to talk.

You might have to reconnect with us, Patrick, because the image of your face is frozen and we can't hear anything. But as I understand it, you arrived at the scene shortly after this massacre took place. You took your your cameraman took photos of you surveying the damage and you began to count the dead bodies and you counted up to about 25. Looks like Patrick's back with us. Can you hear us, Patrick? And can we hear you? Yeah, yeah. It seems like we lost signal there for a second. Okay. All right. All right. So yeah, to answer your question, yes, I walked through. Go ahead. Okay. To answer your question, yeah, I walked through and counted the bodies. As I said, I was only expecting to see eight, but unfortunately there was many more. And I myself personally saw 22 and it was just a horrible situation. Horrible, very sad day in Donetsk. have you been a freelance journalist in Ukraine, in Russia, reporting as you have today?

How long have you been doing this? Well, I've been reporting on this situation, and I started my journalism career in 2014. And at that time, I was a freelance. I'd sell my material to different outlets, as well as do my YouTube channel. But then the time came where I realized that many outlets were taking my material and then twisting them and lying about it. So after that, I decided I wasn't going to be a freelance journalist anymore. I was going to be just independent. And that's why now I only do my work with the support of my viewers. I might cooperate with other channels such as yourself, but all of my funding for my work come directly from donations from my viewers only.

So that's why I feel like I'm able to have the freedom to report exactly what I see with my own eyes and not have to worry about any editor or anything like that trying to tell me what to do. That's why I'm able to bring the people what I see. You are doing absolutely amazing work and courageous work. I want our viewers to know that the full, unblurred images that you sent us have been posted on my website, JudgeKnapp.com, which, of course, I own and no one will interfere with. So if you want to see the full extent of Patrick's reporting, you can see it there, judgenap.com. Patrick, the reason I ask you how long you've been doing this is a predicate to the following question.

Does this stuff affect you? Well, here it is a Sunday morning in a civilian area and you're counting dead bodies. Or has've seen so much death. It to try to remember all of the civilians. But it's not possible. And yeah, I mean, there's times when it affects me heavily. And but sometimes I just feel like I'm numb to it, unfortunately, or maybe that's a good thing. I don't really know. But I just concentrate on going to my goal to in what I need to do to show the world what they're not going to see in other places and try to do my best at what I'm doing and just concentrate on that. And of course, you know, I feel very bad for the families. And, you know, I pray for these people every time I see this, and for their families, of course. Have attacks like this, Ukrainian government, military-directed attacks on civilians,

that Ukraine says are Ukrainian civilians, have attacks like this negatively affected the morale of the Russian-speaking, Russian-cultural people there, of course, you know, when you see your neighbors, your children, your family members killed, of course, it does something to you. And, you know, when you don't know if you're going to be able to go outside and make it back by the end of the day, yeah, it affects your morale and your psyche. But also, it's, I mean, these people are very patriotic and for Russia and wanting to be part of, stay part of Russia. I mean, there's no way that these regions could go back to control of Ukraine. I mean, there's no way these people could love a country that has destroyed their lives and so many lives of their neighbors and families. I mean, how could that be? So, I mean, there's no question there. Chris, can you put up that table? It was about three photographs ago, prior to that.

Yeah, what are we looking at now, Patrick? Is that like pastries and honey for sale still on the table where a man was sitting uh selling uh honey and cottage cheese and apparently some nuts or something like that but like in the background where the blurred spot is that's actually what I could imagine. Maybe just a customer walking by at the wrong time that was killed. But actually the man that was selling the honey, it's not really so clear in the photo. But that white little sheet thing is over his body. So that's his body in the middle there with his boots sticking out of the top there. So he was the man sitting at that table selling honey, and then he was dead.

Wow. What do you think the Russian government will do in response to this? I mean, President Putin has almost personally taken up the responsibility of protecting the Russians in the eastern part of what Russia considers to be Russian. One thing we know they won't do, they're not going to attack Ukrainian civilians. They don't do that. But I would imagine they will do something to attack the military that attacked the civilians, if you follow me. Yeah, well, I mean, if we look at just the last month, there was the attack in Belgorod, where Ukraine fired many rockets on the center, very close to the Christmas tree, killing several and injuring several. I mean, and that's not a disputed zone.

That's part of the Belgorod region of Russia. Never been disputed. This is not one of the four regions that's disputed. Or we can look at the New Year's Eve attack where Ukraine attacked the center. Just because it was New Year's Eve, attacked the center of Donetsk, as well as the Russian Christmas on January 7th where they attacked the center of Donetsk. So, yes, there was a response by Russia, I guess you could call it that, where it was said that the attacks on the military infrastructure increased.

But, you know, of course, everyone thought this was going to be over a lot sooner than it has been. So, I mean, only time will tell. It's a war of attrition at this point. And Ukraine is losing the support of the West, losing the funding. So how much longer will it go? I'm done trying to give an estimate because it's just hard to say. Got it. So hard. Got it. Well, it's nighttime where you are.

I hope you can sleep, Patrick, after, uh, what you saw today, your, your professionalism, dedication, and courage are truly remarkable and utterly appreciated by all of our viewers, by my production team, and by me. Thank you very much for reaching out to us. Thank you for your courage and diligence. And as you know, whenever you need to air something like this, Judging Freedom is ready for you. All the best, Patrick. All right. Thank you very much, Judge. I appreciate it. Of course. Wow. Not the way I expected to spend my Sunday morning, but very illuminating as to what's happening in the world. Tomorrow, Monday, as a usual Monday for us, Alistair Crook, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, Kyle Anzalone, our young, new antiwar.com analyst. And at the end of the day, I think at four in the afternoon Eastern time, the great Professor John Mearsheimer. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thanks for watching!