Judging Freedom - Pepe Escobar : All Bets Are Off!

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Pepe Escobar : All Bets Are Off!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Pragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression, with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? if Jefferson was right? What if that government is best which governs least? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish

fighting for freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Wednesday, July 22nd, 2006, my dear friend, who I almost got to spend time with when I was in northern Italy and Switzerland, but he was too far away in France. Pepe Ascobar joins us now. How are you, my dear man? How are you, Judge? Yes, you were in Como, and I was in French-Natal stand. Wow, wow, and I was in Lugano, but I had a wonderful time and missed you and missed all of our regulars dearly. I'm happy to be back here. The audience is. happy you're back, and I'm sure you're happy to be back with us. Let's get right to this.

Will the Iranians return to the negotiating table with the Americans? On only one condition, and this is something that Larry and I have been on top of it since Sunday night, in fact, especially on Monday and Tuesday. The only condition is for the Americas to come back to the table and fulfill the commitments, the 14-point commitments of the MOU. There will be no renegotiation, no addendos, no footnotes, nothing. That's it. This was signed by both presidents, possession and Trump. It was broken by the Americas.

Most points of the 14 points were broken. And this was among, I would say, the key plank of, we finally managed to establish what really happened. There is an Iranian delegation in Islamabad. They arrived on Monday, stayed Tuesday, I think they're leaving today or left this morning. And there was a message, which we managed to establish. It was a message not directly from leader Mostawa Kamenei, but let's say from the Supreme National Security. is the Council. Basically, they would accept a proposal that came from the Pakistanis and the Qataris for a 10-day pause, which will be extended later on. But this is what the Iranians

wanted in return, which basically is nothing. They just said, look, if you go back to the table, you will start implementing the memorandum of understanding from day one. That's it. Oh, there's nothing else. And guess what happened? Trump rejected it. Immediately. Why should the Iranians trust Trump? He and his real estate agent advisors have deceived them three times in June, in February, and now with this MOU. And the vice president is wrapped up in this as well.

Are any of them to be believed? No, they don't, but they don't exclude diplomacy, Judge, which is something that we was reiterated by Arakshi in public two or three days ago. He said, look, even there is a tiny, a very, very tiny possibility of diplomacy, we won't abandon it. But of course, they don't trust anything. And they know how the empire of plunder and piracy is non-agreement capable, to quote our dear friend Sergei Lavrov. But they don't say no. And they knew, when they told the Pakistanis, this is what you should tell the Americans,

okay, go back to the table, respect the MOU from the start. They knew that they would be rejected, and it was rejected like clockwork. Are your friends the Pakistanis speaking to the Americans? We know they're speaking to the Iranians, you just told us in your column coming out later today. You describe dramatically, I must say, the arrival of the Iranians to bring messages to the Pakistanis. Are the Pakistanis being truthful, faithful, mediators? Are they speaking to the Americans?

And if so, who do they speak to? Do we know? Well, we don't know. We cannot name names, because they won't name names. But they are speaking directly to the White House. this is why because assin munir is involved and a simunir picks up the phone and he he can talk to anybody he wants in the white house including president who is this uh the field marshal simunir the chief of the army in pakistan ah okay this is the guy who would is this is the guy judge the apple of trump's eye exactly and he's essential but the point is and it's becoming clear and clearer that Trump is instrumentalizing Assin Munir to get some sort of Erzatz deal, which is not exactly the MOU he signed, in the words of one of the Pakistani mediators,

that would avoid humiliation. Essential. So this goes to the heart of the matter. Trump needs something to sell where his ego is not bruised. He cannot sell the MOL you to domestic public opinion in the US because most people are going to say, okay, so the Iranians are dictating the terms and the clockwork, as they are. The thing is, according to the Pakistani mediators, we trust the information that they give us, but we need to check, of course. Larry and I do our checking via the Iranians, always when it tells us something really, really explosive. But one thing that they told us, and we cannot check with anybody else, is that Trump was calling Assimuneer every day, literally, begging him for an off ramp, a way out, but that would spare him some humiliation.

So we assume that he was defining the MOU as a humiliation. And Assimonyer did not do anything for a few days. He said, look, I'm still talking to the Iran. There will be a delegation that will be coming here. So the delegation arrived on Monday. They had substantial discussions yesterday on Tuesday. And then when the Pakistanis told Trump, look, this is what they are proposing. They would accept a pause. But you have to fulfill the MOU right on which.

He said no. Yeah. Pepe, I think you're breaking news of international significance here. that the Iranians would accept a pause because they're doing, we'll get to this in a few minutes, they're doing devastating work on American military bases in the areas, that you're telling me that the Iranians would accept a pause if the United States goes back to the memorandum of understanding and you're telling me that the chief of the army is speaking directly to President Trump.

Are Whitcock, Vance, and Kushner out of the picture? Yes, because they don't count. And the only person that counts in terms of the mediation for the Iranians and also for the Pakistanis, because they are putting themselves on the line, is to talk directly to Trump. But then there's an extra complicating factor, Judge. We ran this, Larry, on his. side with people in the US and myself with the Iranians, I ran through the Iranians what might

have happened in Islamabad. And I got three knows. And these sources are really good in Tehran. But it's very important for us to keep in mind that they are different power centers in Tehran. And some of the most sensitive information is not supposed to leak. So among the things that they that they told me. No, Ayatollah Morsaba Kamenei is not in touch with anybody in Pakistan. This is technically true. First of all, because he's extremely well protected in a bunker in Tehran. And the people who talk to him are only in person, the communications are only analog. And when he sends something written, it has to be delivered in person. It could have been this message. And it gets even more complicated because in the beginning the Pakistanis were expecting a letter from Mostabas.

So everybody was very excited. Then the interior minister of Pakistan, Momani, he told the Pakistanis, look, there's no letter, but I have a message for you. So this message comes with the imprimatur of Mostaba. But it could have been written by his very tight inner circle, no problem. But the thing is it's a consensual view. But there are other members of the Supreme Political Council and IRGC hardliners, let's put it this way, to simplify, that don't agree with that. First of all, they don't agree that this information is leaked, and they don't agree with any sort of communication with the Americans anymore. So that's why I got a response that, no, Ayatollah Mostab Khan is not talking to the Pakistanis.

And number two, they told me, look, there has been no message whatsoever, and we refuse to discuss the possibility of a 10-day period, 60-day period, 90-day period. So I'm not sure this reflects the overall consensus in Tehran. It may reflect the consensus among the hardliners. but the source that I was talking to via some of my friends, these sources are among the hardlines. So there is some leeway to interpret. They don't, for instance, say that we're not talking to the Pakistanis at all.

No, they are very specific. Because the Pakistanis would never, it's against their own interest to pass this information around and tell Larry and myself, of knowing that Iranians immediately you're lying. It's pointless. Because they are doing everything they can to be credible mediators. And we learned another thing today, Judge, which also is...

There is a price for this mediation. And we finally learn what it is. It's that... It's the emergency $10 billion mechanism to save the Pakistani economy. And the Pakistanis asked Scott Besant directly. for it. And so far, what is it? Is it Pakistani money in an American

bank or they just want to give the American money to stabilize the Pakistani rupee? Wow. Very important. So far only two countries receive this stabilization mechanism. Uruguay and Argentina. Argentina was last year. Uruguay

was two years ago in Argentina last year. So Pakistan will be the third. So there is a price for all that. Of course. They needed it. Let me go back to Iran. Does Iran have a nuclear device that it's about to test? Well, this is the one zillion. You won't question, Judge.

Nobody knows for sure. Because they practice a strategic ambiguity. They may have, they may need one week to 10 days. Or they may get it from, outside actors. There are many possibilities. But the thing is, and this was confirmed already by us two months ago, by Larry and myself, when we received the information that President Pesachan, in his phone call to Pakistani Prime Minister Shabashir said that if the American Sting like this, we will be forced to detonate a device in Iranian soil to prove our deterrence.

And we also have an indirect confirmation via the Majlis, the Iranian parliament, that everything about the Iranian nuclear program should be accelerated. All options are on the table. And that includes, of course, a nuclear device. So nobody has the answer to your question, Judge. Because, of course, it's strategic ambiguity and the persons are the best at playing strategic ambiguity. All right. So I'm going to ask you a question, but before you answer it, I want you to watch a Q&A. Has the United States, well, which country has the better chance of enduring the current War 3.0, the United States or Iran?

Right. Agreed. But watch Pistol Pete's inability to answer that question, Chris. This is about a minute and a half long, but it's very aggravating, but very telling. Chris, cut number nine. On day 14 of this conflict, Mr. Secretary, day 14, nearly five months ago, you stated that Iran's military had been, quote, destroyed and quote, made combat ineffective. That was on day 14 of the war.

Was that an accurate statement? They didn't have a Navy any longer. It was completely sunk. Their missiles were buried underneath a lot of their underground facilities and their defense industrial base has been almost completely destroyed. On day 14 of this conflict in the second week of the conflict, you stated that Iran's military had been, quote, destroyed and, quote, made combat ineffective. Was that an accurate statement?

Yes or no? Iran's ability to challenge the United States of America at the level of which we're capable That's not what I asked you, Mr. Secretary. You said on day 14 Iran's military had been, quote, destroyed and, quote, made combat ineffective. Yes or no, was that an accurate statement? What the American military has done to the Iranian military is a historic military defeat, and they're ineffective in that context. Three weeks after you'd already said Iran's military was destroyed and combat ineffective, you said, quote, Operation Epic Fury was a historic and overwhelming victory. You said Iran's military had been rendered, quote, combat ineffective for years to come.

And you stated, we had, quote, achieved every single objective. Were those accurate statements? It certainly was on behalf of the men and women in uniform a historic military victory over Iran. Mr. Secretary, you stated four months ago that Iran's military had been rendered, quote, combat ineffective for years to come. Has Iran's military been for, for the last four months combat ineffective. It's been set back not just years, but likely decades. Mr. Secretary, you stated we had, quote, achieved every single objective. Was that an accurate statement four months ago?

The main objective of this was to ensure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon. Early in the conflict on day three, Mr. Secretary, early in the conflict, day three, you said one of those core objectives was to, quote, destroy the missile threat. And as you restated on day five, to, quote, obliterate Iran's mission. missiles and drones. Those were clearly and repeatedly stated core objectives of the campaign, which four months ago you declared had been completed victoriously with every single objective achieved. Were those objectives achieved four months ago? No one ever stated that every single missile was gone. You stated on March 8th, day nine of the

war on 60 minutes, you assured the American people of Iranians surrender. Does that remain your prediction. Ultimately, Iran will never have a nuclear weapon to threaten the United States of America. That has been the objective, and it remains so. So just to review, you will not answer whether your statement made on the 14th day of the war that Iran's military had been, quote, destroyed and made combat ineffective was a truthful statement to the American people as you sit here and ask for 10 civilians more. The senator's time has... That a historic and effective military campaign against the largest state sponsor of terrorism.

Won't answer the question. He can't answer the question. No, he can't. And this is brutal. Absolutely. It was brutal. Politically, it has significantly uplifted Senator Assov who was asking the questions and significantly degraded the public view of Secretary Hegseth.

But to get to the substance of this, do these people even have an understanding of Iran? military strength. Obviously not, Judge. And it's crazy. They could have just read, go to Iranian accounts on X, if you want to get in detail. If you don't want to ask people in the GCC,

for instance, who know about it. It's absolutely mind-boggling. But it's the typical imperial mix of arrogance and ignorance. And this super, This minute and a half performance is stellar in it. And especially as we now know, and it's going to get much, much worse from now on, that Iran is turning the U.S. all across the Persian Gulf, death, dumb, and blind. I'm sure everybody from my generation, you remember the who, pingball wizard?

That's blood. That's dumb. It should have played a mean pinball. But now, who's playing pinball? The Americans are playing pinball with the bully. And they're turning the bull and blind. Let me ask you a few questions about Israel. Why is it that Israel does not appear to be involved in the Iran War 3.0?

This is very juicy. Very, very juicy. I was discussing this with some Yemeni friends, in fact, because they want the Americas to bear the full responsibility for the debacle coming ahead, including the possibility, the normalization of using tactical nukes if they go along with these rumors of bombing the Big X mountain. So the responsibility. Who has the tactical nukes? Iran? No, the Americans.

The Americans using tactical nukes to bomb rocks. They are absolutely impenetrable. If that happens, the responsibility will be exclusively American and not shared with Israelis. So yes, they want the Americans to be deeply, deeply, deeply implicated in a war that they cannot simply walk away from against Iran. This is the Israeli agenda at the moment. And of course, eventually the partnership will be back for another massive attack against Iran, further on down the road. This is the short midterm plan. Here's another senator at the same hearing, and Secretary Hegg-Seth again unable to respond.

Chris number seven. The Strait of Hormuz is still closed, reminding everybody. It was open before the war. Prices were lower for everybody until the war, and it still remains closed. And, of course, tragically, people, service members, are warfighters, who we care deeply about, are still dying. So what's different, Mr. Higgs? So Secretary Higgs. I think your characterization of this incredible effort as a failure is reckless.

And I think it's irresponsible. And I think it smears the sacrifice of the troops that are out there making on behalf of the American people to ensure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon. Shame on you and others who call this a quagmire and a failure. And then you want to turn around and say you support the warfighter. Very Heggsuff, did you, if you listened to my comments, you told you would have heard me say how amazing our war fighters are. I heard failure. I heard exactly what you said. I will tell you how I use the word failure.

Because I use the word failure to their leaders. You, sir, are the failure. Not the men and women who are on that front line, not the men and women who hold up their honor with distinction. But if there's a lack of a winning strategy, they're in harm's way. Their leaders have failed them. And that's what's happening. We have political leadership. You don't have a strategy.

You don't have a long-term plan to actually win this war. Win the war. The men and women are going to be able to do it, but they need to have leadership. Of course we have leadership. When will you show leadership? Of course we have leadership. Why don't you show some leadership and stand up for your fellow Democrats? who won't fund the troops, who stand and play partisan politics why you don't give us the money.

You want to stand up here and talk about the troops? You won't show any political courage to actually fund our department because you have Trump-Drumpt derangement syndrome and can't actually commit to anything meaningful. So I put this on you, Senator. Secretary Hags, you have trillions, you have over a trillion dollars. You're asking for one and a half trillion dollars. It's not a question of money. It's a question of leadership and understanding what it takes to actually win.

This is what we're dealing with. Wow. We're dealing with Trump's Hollywood-looking former Fox anchor, totally out of his field. Absolutely. And he doesn't even know what this war is about to start with. And of course, he can never recognize, especially in public, that this war was never about the Iranian nuclear.

OCA. This is an oil choke point war. This is an energy war. This is a war to control energy in petrodollars. This is a war to save the petrol dollar in West Asia. This is a war to strangulate, isolate and eventually conquer Iran. This is a war against the Iran-Russia-China Strategic Partnership, the Interlock Strategic Partnerships. It's a war against Bricks. It's a war against the global south. It's a war against three civilization states. We are redoing Eurasia in the image of civilization states and, of course, trade and good relations and indivisibility of security for everyone. This is too much. Is it fair to say that the Kremlin and Beijing would never permit the U.S. and Israel to topple Iran and the Americans.

Never. Apparently don't understand that. No. No, they don't. They don't because they don't understand this very complex process of integration of Eurasian. They don't understand the direct connection between the proxy war in Ukraine and the war against Iran. They don't understand how Beijing, Moscow and Tehran are always talking about how they need to keep the US away from Eurasia for good, maybe a few pockets here and there. They don't understand the discussions inside Bricks, when Bricks until this year was relatively functional about, okay, how we are going to organize the geo-economic and financial aspects of keeping the U.S. away from Eurasia. None of that. It's too complex for somebody as pedestrian as the Secretary of Forever Wars and everybody around him. Wow. You know, if the Iranian military capability has been totally obliterated as the President and Secretary, Seth, have maintained, how did they destroy all these military bases and how did American service people die in?

Jordan this week. Exactly. And that has not even started. This is part of, you remember a few, well, a few weeks ago when Iran was saying, basically our response from now on is going to be two to one. You hit us once and we hit you twice and much, much harder. And now it's two to one and three to one. And they are pounding the same basis over and over again. There are more less 20 bases in the Persian Gulf and also including Jordan, etc. Only four are in a relatively good shape. The other 16 are decimated or on the way to being completely decimated. And this will continue. And this is part of the Iranian message which was relayed to the Pakistanis. and after Trump vetoed any possibility of going back to the MOU,

okay, it's your decision. If you are willing to pay the price of ourselves destroying all your infrastructure, your security umbrella all across the Persian Gulf to a point of no return, you want to pay that kind of price, that's it. The other possibility is very, very simple. You signed a document. Fulfue your commitments. Right.

Right. Yeah. Right. Before we leave, Pepe, I want to post the Ayatollah's tweet. You may have seen this. This is two or three days ago. And I'll read it for the benefit of those taking the show audio only. Now that the American enemy is seeking to escalate the conflict,

thereby incurring even heavier costs and further humiliation, it should know that the noble nation of Iran and the resistance front have unforgettable lessons in store for it. I emphasize, Pepe, now this is me, his phrase, and the resistance front. Exactly, because this is the axis of resistance in action. Another example, why the Yemenis of Ansarala, the Yemeni armed forces, install a blockade of the Red Sea and the Bab al-Mandeb for the Saudis and not for everybody else. So this is a naval blockade against the Saudis. The Baba Mandab is another nuclear weapon, just like Hormuz.

But it will be located for everyone only if the Amman. Americans attack the power infrastructure and the electrical infrastructure in Iran. This is, according to the Yemenis, a siege for a siege. They have been under siege by the Saudis for over 11 years. So now they decided to respond. And it's strictly against Saudi Arabia. If the Americans think that they can expand the war and involve the access of resistance including Yemen, then they blocked the Bab al-Mandem.

And one of my Yemeni friends told me, I asked him directly, and he told me, do you know why we did this today? We could have done it much later. Because our intelligence, in conjunction with Iranian intelligence, we know that there is the possibility of a massive American attack against the whole axis of resistance, not only against Iran, but against us in Yemen, against Hezbollah, against Hash al-Shabhi in Iraq. So that's why we went baited this. This is immensely important because it shows to all of you, our audience,

how the Yemenis see the whole chess port in detail. And when you go there, Judge, and you talk to them, it's immensely, immensely important and impressive. I talk to members of their political council. These are the guys who are capable of discussing a measure like this. You have the leader Al-Hulti at the top. You have the political council and you have their parliament. They discuss in three levels important decisions like this one, as they will if they decide to close the Bab al-Mandeb.

From the moment the Bob Al-Mandab is only closed for Saudis. Ah, and this is the approval, disapproval in the U.S., right? Yes, yes. And this is only a week old. The numbers are probably worse by now. July 813. Yes, okay. This is the Washington Post-Ipsos poll. Do you approve or disapprove of the way Trump is handling the Iran war? Approve 29 percent. Disapprove 69 percent. Well, so the absolute majority of the American population knows that this is a disaster. Yes, Pepe, I have to go.

I must tell you, this is the largest audience you have ever had with us, deeply and profoundly appreciated by the viewers at the end by me. Hope we can get into more detail next time, Judge. Yes, thank you, my dear friend. All the best to you. We'll see you again next week. All the best of you, too. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Wow, that was fabulous. Coming up later today at 2 o'clock this afternoon, the Golden Boy will be back. Max Blumenthal at three o'clock on all of this, and he has much to say. My dear friend, Phil Giraldi. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.