Judging Freedom - Pepe Escobar : Can China Handle Trump’s Tariffs?

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Pepe Escobar : Can China Handle Trump’s Tariffs?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Today is Thursday, October 30, 2025. Pepe Escobar is here with us. apologies for the late start, the internet gremlins are out. Pepe, a pleasure, my dear man. Thank you very much for joining. My pleasure. And sorry for the technical problems. It's not your fault. These things happen.

Everybody knows that, but we apologize, nevertheless. Before we get to President Trump and President Xi in China, which I know you've been monitoring closely, can you tell us if the Kremlin is, supplying military gear to Venezuela in anticipation of an utterly unprovoked Donald Trump originated invasion? There's no official confirmation by the Kremlin or the Minister of Defense. This is very, very important. Yes, there is, there are several channels. We don't know what is being supplied.

For instance, this rumor that went out about Wagner going to Venezuela, that's different. Wagner doesn't exist as an entity anymore. But former Wagner instructors with actual war experience in Dombas and in the Sahel, oh yes, they are already in Venezuela. We still don't have numbers. the same thing. And we should not forget that Russia and Venezuela, they have a strategic partnership, and that includes military help. And that also includes something that President Putin said a few days ago. Adventurism in Venezuela is not exactly a good thing. It can

destabilize South America as a whole. So everybody paying attention in Washington, if there isn't anybody paying attention in Washington, they have. to consider all that how about china does it have a stake in venezuela does it have a stake in seeing to it that the united states either doesn't invade or is if it does is repelled well the famous venezuela briggs drama among the nations that were pushing for venezuela to become a member of bricks was not only Russia, it was China as well, because of their economic interests, and because for them, Venezuela, in terms of energy, mid- and long-term, it will become absolutely essential. And, of course, in terms of Latin American integration seen from Beijing.

And we all know that in the end, Venezuela did not become a full member of BRICS because of Brazilian opposition. And this Brazilian opposition was something also extremely complicated because it was basic from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Brazil, not necessarily from President Lula. Lula, in this past few days, he defended Venezuela in public in terms of the Empire of Chaos better think twice if they're trying to destabilize Venezuela. But this is part of a much, much larger process, Judge. I wish we have at least two or three minutes to get into it. Go ahead.

But before we do, since you mentioned President Lula, we're going to play a clip of him now. And we're hearing more and more of this, that the linchpin of all this activity in Latin America, of the threatened invasion of Venezuela, the threatened invasion of Colombia, and now we heard this at the UN, and I'm going to play that clip for you, the threatened invasion of Cuba, of Cuba, the linchpin of all of this is one person, Marco Rubio. Here is your president. Here is the president of Brazil. Not very happy with Secretary Rubio. Chris, cut number three. Everyone who read that letter knew that the information about Brazil in it was incorrect.

That's why I told President Trump during our phone call that it was necessary to put people who actually liked Brazil in charge of the negotiations. I am a very experienced president. It may not seem like it, but I have a lot of experience. And do you only send people to negotiate? Who do you want to be against it if you yourself are against it? Or do you want someone to actually negotiate if you want an agreement? If you are in favor of an agreement, but put someone at the negotiating table who is unwilling, there won't be any agreement.

Very diplomatically does not mention the name of the Secretary of State, but it's obvious. about whom he's speaking. Your thoughts on this? Well, Judge, I can tell you, including by personal experience, there are very few negotiators as able as Lula anywhere. He is the master negotiation. And when he said that he's very experienced, that's absolutely correct. And that's why he's respected by everybody. He was a superstar at the ASEAN summit earlier this week in Kuala Lumpur as well,

personally invited by Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim. Of course, he will never mention Marco Rubio, first of all, because from his point of view, he sees Marco Rubio for what he is, a lowly neocoon employee who has only one obsession in life, Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela. This is what Marco Rubio understands in terms of foreign policy. and nothing else and luda can see that right through wow here's um the u.s. ambassador to the united nations the former national security visor you we all know why he was fired as national security visor and apparently the cubans know as well as you'll hear in a minute mike waltz

being humiliated at the general assembly at the u.n here in new york uh two days ago Chris cut number seven. The facts are this is an illegitimate and brutal regime that seeks to cast itself as the victim of aggression while plainly describing itself as, quote, the enemy of the United States. It's located just 90 miles off our shore. It conspires and it collaborates with enemies and adversaries of the United States against our interests. The facts are that this regime supports terrorist organizations,

around the globe. It is allowing mercenaries to fight in the war in Ukraine. It's propping up the Venezuelan regime and it aids cartels. The facts are that these cartels that it pops up are trafficking people, drugs, and weapons, and is aiding and abetting instability in our hemisphere. They undermine democracies in our hemisphere. I'm very sorry to interrupt, but there's a point of order from Cuba. Yes, we have to give the floor to the point of order and the representative of Cuba. The permanent representative of the United States

not only lies by substantively deviating from the topic but also expresses himself in a rude and arrogant manner towards your presidency, the dignity of this assembly, States. He does so with a lack of culture, rudeness, and discourtesy that is unacceptable in this great and democratic chamber. Mr. Walsh, this is the United Nations General Assembly speaking to you today. We welcome your attention and presence. This is not a signal group, nor is it the House of Representatives. This is not your signal chat with your secret members joining. destroyed him in that beautiful Spanish with a Cuban accent, which is so sexy to hear.

But there's a deeper meaning here. Is the United States sending signals that it plans to invade Cuba? I would say that for a bunch of mercenaries and covert operators, which may be prowling around the carriage. Yes. Well, what is this, the Bay of Pigs all over again? Yes, there could be a bay of a lot of pigs to 2.0, right? Wow. All right.

Let's get to President Xi and Trump. What did they accomplish today? I believe that it's already late in the day on Thursday, and President Trump is on his way home. Yes, absolutely. Judge, before the meeting... Actually, before we get to the... Chris has just reminded me.

One of the people that whispers into President Trump's ear and obviously listens to what the president says is our favorite senator from South Carolina. Here he is yesterday predicting land invasions, Pepe. This is terrible and demonic, but not surprising. Chris, cut number 11. President Trump has decided to treat drug cartels as national security threats.

Remember the caliphate, the ISIS caliphate, that President Trump destroyed? We have a drug caliphate in our backyard. Venezuela is run by an indicted drug dealer, Maduro, who's not a legitimate president of Venezuela. It's a safe haven for drug cartels. So President Trump has a policy that if you're in the drug business, you're a drug cartel and you're having boats come to America, we're going to blow up the boats. I think his policy is going to go on the land. If you're a country housing drug cartels, we're going to treat you as a national security threat to our country.

There is a caliphate in our backyard. Colombia, Venezuela, and Cuba are all countries that have allowed drug cartels to operate with impunity, make money off poisoning America. And these countries should be on notice. With Donald Trump, the game is changing. Are there any truth to that that the governments of Colombia, Venezuela, and Cuba, the governments are making money off of drugs sold in the United States? Look, I don't even know where to start. First of all, this imbecile says that there's a, the ISIS caliphate was invented by the United States, and it was normalized recently at the UN and approved. by President Trump himself. Al-Qaeda in Syria was normalized by the United States government. And he talks about the nicest caliphate.

But in terms of drugs, the drug dealers across South America and we can say Latin America, they come from all over. They come from Peru. They come from Brazil. There are Bolivians involved as well. And there are private Colombians, Venezuelans, et cetera. And, of course, most of all, the Americans who received these drugs and distributed all over the United States. So this is basically an American problem.

And a lot of people in the U.S. are making a lot of money off drugs since the times of the Escobar cartel. Well, but how devastating would it be if the United States actually wage a land invasion? You want to get to China. We will in a minute. A land invasion of Cuba or Venezuela or Colombia. And from my perspective, as a constitutional scholar, without a declaration of war from. Without a declaration of Congress, which you'll never get.

Exactly. Absolutely. Well, Venezuela is ready. Venezuela, they have malicious. They have, they are positioned even if there would be a land. invasion, which the Pentagon, the ones with an IQ over room temperature in the Pentagon, they will say, no, no, no, no, this is going to be Bay of Pigs multiplied by a zillion pigs. Anything is possible. The problem is, when you have a Secretary of State who's actually a war instigator against

three Latin American countries. This is absolutely nuts. and he has Trump's ear, and he is a lowly neocon. So you have all the ingredients for a perfect storm, of course. And of course, they need to divert the attention to what's really happening in West Asia. Very, very important. So they create a new focus in Latin America. And this is part of the bigger problem that was alluded a few minutes ago,

which comes back to the image that makes. Many of us used in the past of you cannot play chess with the pigeon because sooner or later the pigeon is going to kick over the chessboard. So now we have this giant pigeon, which we also can call the beast, which by the way is the name of Trump's limo. So we have the beastly pigeon kicking the chess board everywhere and looking around for praise available for. And one of the top praise, of course, is relatively weak in many aspects, Latin American nations and branded as heavens of drug trafficking in the enemy of the United States, etc. Socialists, the commies, or whatever, you know. Because the main, just to finish, judging, in 30 seconds. the strategic defeat of the United States against Russia and the coming strategic defeat of the United States vis-à-vis China

in the tech war, tariff war and trade war is practically inevitable. So what does the beast do? Start attacking the smaller prey. Right. All right, I want to jump to China, but before we do, I got to show you a screenshot that Chris captured of your reaction when the first words came out of Senator Graham's mouth. I know you're thinking, why is he making me listen to this again?

All right. We jumped to China. What did Trump and Xi accomplish in China? And did Trump again show that he is taco? Trump always shake. chickens out. Well, I think it went beyond taco this time. No, no, but let me try to explain, Judge.

This is not derogatory, in fact. It's in terms of maybe in one hour and 40 minutes, Trump had the chance to have a history lesson. by she, especially, face to face. This is very, very important. For instance, right after the summit, they exchanged, they shook hands, there was a smile, etc., but there was not a single word from Trump.

He had to process all that, and then only when he was at Air Force One, he started blabbering about it. The most interesting thing, as I saw it, was the communique that was released by the Chinese a few hours after that. And incredibly as it might seem, in reflecting the self-confidence of China now,

I'll quote a few paragraphs. This is the Chinese speaking. The concept of mutual achievement and common prosperity, this is their own terminology. It's not new, but the explicit statement that, once again, between commas, China's development and revitalization

and President Trump's goal of making America great again are not mutually exclusive. So this is the Chinese telling the American president, look, there is conviviality and we can live together side by side as great powers. As long as you behave like an adult, that's it. This was a very conciliatory conceptualization by the Chinese

of what happened during. They didn't get into details of what was discussed because obviously they couldn't get into details. We're having some echoes from China that it's possible that the Chinese may alleviate some of the rare earth mineral restrictions for some specific products as long as they don't end up

industrial military complex in the U.S. and they will probably buy more soybeans from the U.S. They didn't have to do it because they are buying from Brazil. Brazil is the number one partner of Brazil is China. They have excellent, the agribusiness in Brazil sells to China a lot, but the Chinese can make a little favor to Trump. Okay, we'll buy a little more of your soybeans because we know that you're not allowed to lose your voter base in the Midwest. But the most important issue, which was.

was Trump pressuring the Chinese to buy less oil from Russia and more expensive oil from America. They didn't even talk about it because it's a no-go from the beginning. So what is the status of, you know, in a fit of peak a few weeks ago, Trump said, I'm going to impose 100% tariff on everything coming from China. Is that now gone? Is that gone for a year? We don't know if it's, we don't know if it's gone. it's too early to tell. Let's wait for a few days, but probably gone. After this history lesson from C, which in a very Chinese, very sophisticated diplomatic way, he's saying, look, we don't

want to antagonize you. We want us to be partners. But if you treat us like this unilaterally, we will respond in kind. So it's great for Trump to hear this from Xi personally in front of him on the other side of the table. So now he's going to have to think twice. But the problem is his own instincts and the ruling classes in the West, their instincts is, no, we need to do anything possible to contain China. This is not going to be erased just because of one hour and 40 minutes of a conversation. Tell us briefly the significance of the ASEAN group, the 11 Southeast Asian countries, their significance as an economic unit. It's enormous, Judge. It's one of the largest trade blocks in the world, and they are part of an enormous trade bloc, which is the regional economic partnership, which also includes, for

instance, Australia and New Zealand, they interconnected. They are very much interconnected, not only among themselves, but with the other three important Asian powers, China, South Korea, and Japan. For instance, in Kuala Lumpur, beginning of the week, there were like three or four summits together. One of them was immensely important. It's called ASEAN plus three. The three are China, Japan, and South.

Korea. So they sat down the table. What did they do? They upgraded their free trade agreement. What does that mean that Trump can unleash all sorts of tariffs against all of us, but we're going to be trading more and more amongst ourselves. Very, very important. Don't his people understand that the more he rants and raves and imposes tariffs in a peak, he imposed a tariff on China because he didn't like a television commercial that they ran during the World Series featuring Ronald Reagan, giving a free market analysis of tariffs. Don't the Trump people understand the more he does that, the stronger the targets he's tariffing become economically? Well, Judge, I will, I can't transition directly to a Brazilian joke, in fact. Trump is perfect.

He's doing our job for us. How significant is the People's Bank of China? There's something here. And in fact, it's in my notes for my next article. They officially announced that Petro Yuan deals with Arab states. is now a goal and from now on even more. And when I say Arab states, that includes all the petro monarchies. So this is the Petro-Ewan in action.

And now China is officially announcing that, yes, we are open for Petro-U-1 business more and more from now on. And at the same time, they officially invited all Bricks nations. which include, by the way, for instance, the Emirates, Petro Monarchy, to use the CIPS payments, Chinese payment system, the cross-border interbank payment system. So soon, and we can say soon from 2025 to 2006, we're going to have scores of nations all across the global south using basically the digital E1.

Many of us are talking about the Ewanization of planet Earth. Okay, we are in the beginning because the UN, for instance, is not fully convertible yet. It's very hard to find it, for instance. You find Ewan essentially in Hong Kong, but it's very hard to find you one outside of China. But the digital E1 is another story. You can, for instance, you are in the Persian Gulf, you want to buy something from China, and we use CIPS, the transaction lasts seven seconds or eight seconds. It's not SWIFT that can last one day, two days, sometimes five days, you know. So in terms of bypassing SWIFT without saying that you're doing it, CIPS is absolutely crucial.

And obviously the BRICS as a whole, they look at it and say, look, instead of, of course, they keep experimenting in what I call the BRICS lab, all sorts of alternative payment systems. They can't start by augmenting the use of CIPS among them. And there's nothing you can do against the digital you want. It's not sanctionable. Wow. It's all fascinating stuff, Pepe. You bring such an interesting and informative perspective. I'm so much indebted to you as are our viewers. Thank you very much, my dear friend. I don't know what time of day it is where you are, but thank you. It's early. All right. Still dinner time. Enjoy your dinner. We'll look forward to seeing you next week, my dear man. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you, Judge. All the best. Thank you so much. Wonderful, wonderful, warm, engaging, brilliant human being he is. Okay, a lot of you asked for this.

A lot of you asked us not to do it, but we're doing it. At 9 o'clock this morning, Jack is back. Jack Devine, the man you guys love to hate, he's here and we'll be talking to him about the CIA in Venezuela, Colombia, and Cuba. At 2 o'clock this afternoon, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, at 3 o'clock this afternoon, Professor John Mearsheimer at 4 o'clock this afternoon, Max Blumenthal. Judge Napolitano for judging free. Thank you.