Judging Freedom - Pepe Escobar : Giving Europe the Boot.

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

Pepe Escobar : Giving Europe the Boot.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Thank you. Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, December 11th, 2025. We found him. We found Pepe Escobar in an undisclosed location, and he's coming to us live right now. Thank you, dear friend. I want to talk to you about giving Europe the boot and your views of the Trump administration,

It's a national security strategy. You referred in a recent piece that you wrote, a brilliant and gifted piece like they all are, of NATO and the European Union being cast to the beggars banquet. Are they both collapsing? Yes, they are, Judge. And it's a parallel process. The European Union and the European Commission, of course,

including all the scandals that would, reach the top of the European Commission, but because it is ironclad protected, don't get there. And NATO as well. There are dissidents inside NATO, and they are especially dissidents inside the European Union. Well, I have been in Italy for almost two weeks now, and I am learning from my Italian interlocutors excellent detailed reports about the presence of NATO in Italy, which as you all know by now is a new colony and a NATO colony as well

compared to the wonders of Italian civilization. Like, you know, where I am now, I am very near the Slovenian border. I was in Austria yesterday, which is 50 kilometers from here. And we are in a deep NATO stand. We have very, very important NATO bases all over and underground, invisible bases as well in this part of Italy. And Italy is militarized by NATO completely and Trieste. I was in Trieste a few days ago.

Trieste is about three hours from where I am. They are militarizing the port for NATO purposes. Trieste was always free territory. They still call it free territory of Trieste. NATO is militarizing the port to be... What does militarizing the port mean? Fixing it up for big naval ships? Yes, absolutely, Judge.

Because Trieste, the port of Trieste should be the most important part in this region uniting the trimarium or intermarium, which is Mediterranean, Baltic and Black Sea, which in NATO's dreams, let's put it this way, should be three NATO lakes, three interconnected NATO lakes. And Trieste is essential. Trieste is being militarized to the hilt. And the locals, and we had a conference in Trieste last week, the locals are obviously, they are terrified,

but what can we do about it? What languages are spoken in Trieste? It's a fascinating mix of Italian, dialecto friulano, dialect from. Friuli, Slovenian, German. It's really a multinational and multicultural. I don't even know if the people in Trieste consider themselves a part of Italy. I've been there myself. It's almost like San Marino. It's almost like a separate little tiny country surrounded by Italy. You know that they miss Austria, Judge. I heard this from many people, including some people,

from Austria who came to our conference last week, they missed the Austro-Hungarian Empire, they missed Austria because Austria was hands-off. Trieste was, they call it a free territory. Wow. And the people, young people, which is great, I met students from the University of Trieste, who refer to and who write about the free territory of Trieste. And that's something that in NATO terms is unacceptable, of course. But as you read the NSS, the National Security Strategy, and as I read it, I think we both are on the same page, as always, the President of the United States is giving the Europeans the boot, and he's giving NATO the boot? Who's going to pay for these bases that are all over Italy, above ground and below ground?

You hit the nail on the head judge. Who's going to pay for it? It's not going to be the United States. So it has to be Europe, with euros that they don't have, or the money that they're trying to steal from Russia. These past few days, we reached peak surrealism in Europe, where Brussels is threatening to punish Brussels. What? Yes, let me rephrase it. Brussels, NATO and European Union, is threatening to punish Brussels. the government, the Belgian government, with the prime minister, because they don't accept that these Russian funds should be stolen by the European Union.

Because the prime minister has a basic understanding of property rights. No, they don't. They don't understand property rights and don't understand international law, which is even worse. And this is what the Belgian Prime Minister was trying to explain to the European Commission this week. Look, if you do this, We need ironclad guarantees by the European Union and the European Commission that Belgium, my country, will not be the sole responsible for, in fact, the theft of the Russian assets because we know that the Russians are going to sue us. They can't give those guarantees unless they're going to pledge the Brandenburg Gate or St. Paul's Cathedral.

I mean, we have to be real estate. That's of an estimable value. Or the April Tower. Right, right. I forgot about that. There you go. But do you foresee Brexit's

Brexit-like events when the UK left may be starting with Hungary? Do you see if Orban is re-elected? Do you foresee this happening? It's quite possible, Judge, within the next few years. Let's be realistic.

Like, you know, in the case of France, for instance, depending on the next French government, it could be a very plausible possibility. Other nations as well, not Germany, because the Germans nowadays, they are, I would say they are in a pre-World War I and pre-World War II mindset all over again. They are trying to commit political suicide three times in less than 100 years. But in Italy, depending on the next Italian government, Certainly. Can you imagine, I arrived in Florence, our city, the capital of the Renaissance, the most cultures sitting in history, arguably. And I saw in Palazzi of the 15th, 16th century, at Banner saying, we refute war.

Or, more explicitly, we refute wars of NATO. Wow. So this is already happening on a ground, on a grassroots level in Italy. So it can expand. There have been protests in Genoa. There have been protests in Rome. But Mrs. Maloney is like a puppy dog to President Trump and NATO, isn't she?

Yes, she is. But Maloney does not design Italian foreign policy, Judge. The guy who does it is Inasio La Russa, a very, very dangerous character. He is the guy who's implementing the, let's say, the globalist EU-NATO agenda on Italy. And basically, in terms of foreign policy, totally against China, totally against Russia, totally against Italy being a member of a partner of the Chinese New Silk Road. And essentially, he is against the majority of the Italian public opinion. On a grassroots level. For instance, it was great these past few days because I had the chance to talk to

average Italians everywhere in Piemonte, in Toscana, in Umbria, here in Friuli, in the Veneto in my first day. Fantastic. And it's a consensus among average Italians. Yes, we are being subjugated by those idiots in Brussels. There's nothing we can do about it. So we have to start a grassroots movement. Everybody says the same thing. Wow. In your travels around Europe, around Italy, did you run into another character by the name of Giuseppe Dragone?

Oh my God. This was exactly when I arrived, Judge, because Dragone, on the record, in an interview with the Financial Times, he said, we are starting to consider the possibility of launching a preemptive attack against Russian. Now, what's my Italian interlocutor? Dragoni is Admiral Dragoni. Admir. What happens to also be the head of the NATO military committee? Exactly. They are very, very important posts in NATO, held by Italians. Well, I cannot disclose details, but one of my top interlocutors here in Italy, former Special Forces, still Italian intelligence.

He knows everybody everywhere, including in the U.S., immensely respected in the U.S. Pentagon levels, military levels. And he told me everything about these people. Background of the families, the Dragone family, very influential as well. Although Dragone himself is an asshole, but the family is very, very influential. Draghi has a Villa in Umbria where we were a few days ago. You know, everybody is known. by people in the know here in Italy.

When I come this summer, I want to meet this fellow. Natragoni, the interlocutor whose name you don't want to get. I will introduce him to you personally, Judge. Well, well, let's switch gears to another area with which, of course, you are intimately familiar by knowledge and study and birth. What does the United States want with Latin America? I think it's very explicit in the Trump doctrine. Let's put it this way, Judge.

It's the return of the Monroe doctrine on steroids. Basically, they were saying, we want our backyard back, the whole thing, whatever it takes. So this does not apply only to Venezuela and Colombia. Trump threatened Colombia one or two days ago, directly. It also concerns Mexico, and it concerns Brazil, the most important nation-state in Latin America, the most powerful, you know, larger economy, et cetera, a member of Bricks, you name it. So the NSS is still, or even more, a document that goes directly against bricks, against the global south,

against Latin America, and wants to split bricks from the inside. And that's, I think this is the key angle of the NSS. Without all that flowery language of trying to normalize relations with Russia, China is not an existential threat anymore, but a competitor. No, they want to break up bricks from the inside. And one of the best indicators is this notion that is being floated nowadays of the Core 5, C5. The Trump administration wants to end the G7 and go for the C-5. Who are the G-5?

Right. Who are they? Who are the C-5 members? United States, Japan, Russia, China, and India. What is this? It's breaking up bricks from the inside. We have the U.S. and the vassal colony, Japan, and three bricks. So the U.S. is trying to, I called it managed multipolarity.

Why would China, Russia and India do that? Bricks is so successful. Why would they trust Trump? Of course, Judge. And that's the key of the whole question, a matter of trust. And why would they dump bricks for a very vague Trump idea? based on literally nothing, just promises. Of course.

But this is wishful thinking in terms of the NSS. And what this wishful thinking will face later on, which is the wall of reality. And the wall of reality is closer bricks integration like we saw these past few days. Right. When we had the spectacular visit of Shiva Putin to India. And of course, Wang Yi, Minister of Foreign Relations of China, coming to Moscow just before Putin left to India to meet with Lavrov and discussed strategic relationship, Russia, China. So this interlocked strategic relationships, Russia, China, India, India, Russia, China, especially, they won't be broken by any promises from the other side.

But the NSA is a narrative, Judge. It's a narrative. I want to read to you a release from the Associated Press just 30 minutes ago. And tell me if you think this gives quick-draw Pete any pause. Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed solidarity with the Venezuelan people on Thursday, made growing tensions between Venezuelan's leader Nicolas Maduro and the Trump administration. The Kremlin said in a statement, that Putin spoke with Maduro by phone and reaffirmed his support for the Venezuelan leader's policy of protecting national interests and sovereignty in the face of growing external pressure.

The call comes a day after American forces seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela, the latest tactic from U.S. President Donald Trump's administration, the ramp of pressure on Maduro, who has been charged with narco-terrorism, by the United States. What will Putin do to resist American aggression in Venezuela? Well, this is already a message, Judge. Basically, Putin is telling the Trump administration, we got Venezuela's back.

So think careful about what we're going to do next. When you compare with what the Ministry of Foreign Relations in Beijing said two or three days ago, which more or less totally aligned with what Putin said, totally condemned any foreign interference in Venezuelan sovereignty. So this is reality. We have real politic actors, Russia and China, trying to counteract narratives coming from the US.

Let me see if I find a quote here, Judge, from the NSS, which I selected, which I think is very important in terms of defining their wish thinking. Yes, it's here. Okay. I'm quoting now. We want that hemisphere, meaning Latin America, that remains free of hostile foreign incursion or ownership of key assets, meaning essentially Chinese and Russian investment. And they mean all over Latin America, not only Venezuela, Colombia, etc. And that supports. critical supply chains. This means the supply chains that favor the United States.

And we want to ensure our continued access to key strategic locations, meaning we want the whole backyard for us in diplo language, right? Just to finish the quote, in other words, their words, in other words, their words, we will assert and enforce a Trump corollary to the Monroe Doctrine. And that's the Trump administration of saying, this is the Monroe Doctrine 2.0 on steroids. We want the whole backyard, and nobody is allowed to come here, and we rule the center.

Wow. Yeah. What happens if the United States attacks? Has Russia sold or installed air defenses? Oh, my God. This is, well, this is a big, because, yes. they have Russian missile air defense. And if Russian advisors are hit, then we enter unknown territory, of course.

So Putin is being very patient, very careful, sending messages that should be understood by anybody that understand how diplomacy works. We wonder if the people around Trump will pay attention. we don't, this war, this possible war invasion, shock and all, remixed, whatever against Venezuela, may not be totally Trump's

project. We all know who is the main interested party in this project, right? Rubio. Yes, of course, of course, of course. And

Rubio is about power. Rubio is about power and consolidated the power that he has with a very powerful Cuban exile of Venezuelan exiled donors. The United States seized the largest oil tanker, according to Trump, the largest oil tanker in the world. Colonel Wilkerson says it holds a billion gallons of oil. I have, I have, wow!

I saw a picture of it. It doesn't look like a normal oil tanker. It looks like two or three oil tankers connected. I have characterized this seizure as an act of piracy. It is an act of piracy legally. You know better than anybody. Yes. Right. Yes.

But how Venezuela can react to that? I really don't know. I mean, suppose this was a Chinese. or a Russian tanker, I don't think the U.S. would have seized it. No, no, definitely not. And it had been destined for a Chinese port. It was destined for Iran

according to the American propagandists. If it had been destined for a Chinese port, I don't think the U.S. would have seized it. Definitely not. Definitely not. And it's still very, very murky. Who owns the

whole thing? What are they going to do with it? What are they going to do with a billion gallons of oil. Sailing it to America? I mean, it's piracy, it's classic piracy. The Attorney General says she got a warrant from a federal judge. The federal judge doesn't have

jurisdiction over a foreign ship in the middle of the ocean, nor could a federal judge authorize such such a seizure. But this falls straight into the new characterization of the NSS. Yes. It's our

backyard and we do what we want. We are showing these are Coast Guard. Coast guards, right. Repelling from a helicopter with their automatic weapons now running to where they

believe the captain of the ship would be, pointing automatic weapons. happens at them, their commencing combat, there was nobody firing at them. So they attacked a civilian boat with military gear, military equipment, and guns, not blazing, but guns pointing. I don't think anybody was actually shot. Well, that sets a new, very dangerous narrative, Judge. It does.

We can do it, and we can get away with it. I would like to know what your unnamed interlocutor thinks about that. I'm going to talk to him between today and tomorrow. Tomorrow we are heading to Rome. I want to talk to him about this today. He's going to the U.S. soon, Judge, in fact. But he was, do you know that he got an invitation, a formal invitation from the Pentagon? In fact, you have to be here in the next few days because you need to teach some people, blah, blah, blah, blah.

He's also an instructor as a former special horse. He's one of the top instructors in Europe. Wow. One of these days will meet. Pepe, thank you very much, my dear friend. I know it's late at night. I don't know if you've had your dinner yet. I know your Thai and Zieg very late.

But thank you very much, my dear friend. All the best. Well, it strikes in Italy. So I spend a day trying to find a train to get to Rome. Wow. I hope you get there. And I hope we can see you one or two. more times before Buonan Natale.

I'll be in southern Italy next week, Judge. Definitely. Great. Chris, we'll find you. Thank you, Pepe. All the best. Thank you so much. Thank you, Judge. Thank you so much. Coming up at 4 o'clock on all of this, mainly on the piracy and the murders on the high seas, Scott Ritter. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.