Judging Freedom - Pepe Escobar: I’m gonna MAGA you, baby!

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Pepe Escobar: I’m gonna MAGA you, baby!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Wednesday, January 15th, 2025. Pepe Escobar joins us. Now, Pepe, before we start, one of the viewers writes in, I like Pepe Escobar Juventus. Now, Pepe, before we start, one of the viewers writes in, I like Pepe Escobar. He's always happy no matter what we're talking about. Well, that is true. And it's one of the reasons that your humble correspondent loves you and the audience loves you. You have quite a piece out. If I were to summarize the piece, it would be called MAGA, The Greatest Show on Earth. Subtitle, P.T. Barnum becomes President of the United States.

Let me start at the end of that piece, wherein you say, the empire of chaos lost the proxy war in Ukraine. Explain, please. Which it ties with something we discussed, Judge, I think in our previous conversation, what Emmanuel taught, which is arguably the top French intellectual nowadays, in his interview two weeks ago when he said that Trump's job will be to manage the US defeat vis-à-vis Russia.

That's exactly what's happening, that's been happening for a while, and now, considering the typically Russian slow methodical but steady advance in the battlefield, this is what's happening. Everybody knows this, not only Russia, but also across the NATO-STAN sphere. How Trump and the American elites especially are going to manage what is a de facto defeat of the collective West, throwing everything against Russia and still losing a war in the black soil of Novorossiya. A previous formulation, until a few months ago, was that the rules-based international order, which is exiting next week, by the way, with the new administration, was buried in the black soil of Novo Rosia. But now we have a new

paradigm. Trump 2.0 will be a new paradigm. And how this new paradigm is going to deal with what it is, de facto, absolutely catastrophic defeat. Well, what is he going to do? I gather from your piece that he's not going to start wars. He's going to use the economic power of the United States to do what? Complement BRICS, confront BRICS, crush BRICS, work with BRICS. Essentially, Judge, confront BRICS, but let's say that there will be two vectors. I am particularly intrigued by the whole NATO-Stan annexation drama, which was a fascinating way, typically Trump, and subjugation of territories that are essential for U.S. security, as defined by Trump. So everything that he said so far, which was more or less cryptic. I was trying to get deeper into it, especially

because what he didn't say about Greenland and Canada. It's in terms of resource base, assuming there is a sort of deal or semi-annexation, non-military of both Canada and Greenland, the resource base of the US is gonna equal Russia in terms of natural resources, minerals, rare earths, unexplored oil and and gas, etc. So, this makes perfect sense. So everybody who's saying that this is another delirium or showbiz by Trump, no, no, no. It's very well thought of. Of course, the way Trump imprints that in the collective unconscious is like an MMA fight or the World Wrestling Federation. No, it's pure show business.

But it makes total sense. If he will be able to accomplish that, that's another story. We're going to have to ask the Canadians. And as Sergey Lavrov this week already said on the record, you're going to have to ask the people who live in Greenland. Well, Greenland I don't know much about, but if Canada were to become a part of the United States, Donald Trump can kiss his majorities in Congress away because the House of Representatives and the Senate would be overwhelmingly Democrat, given the liberal predilections of the inhabitants of that state.

And the Constitution would require that they be treated the same as those who are in the lower 48. But without speculating on exactly what's going to happen with Canada and Greenland, you make a fascinating argument, and That is that Trump is not crazy, that for all of his P.T. Barnum bluster, he understands the natural resources that would be available to American industry, and he or his successors could exclude foreigners from access to them, were Canada and Greenland to become part of the United States. Would the Kremlin sit by and allow Greenland, which is so close to Russia, to become part of the United States and therefore part of NATO?

Exactly. And very close to the Northern Sea Route, which the Chinese call the Arctic Silk Road. This is absolutely essential. This is what Trump did not say in so many words, because this is about a countercoup against the North Sea Route. This is very, very important, Judge, because the North sea route is uh it's uh two two vectors of uh uh russia in the 21st in terms of investment and conquering the far east uh most of siberia and the arctic this these are

federal policies it's discussed in detail every time we go to those very, very important forums, the St. Petersburg Forum in June and the Vladivostok Forum in September. This year, for instance, in both forums, I went to two roundtables on the North and Sea Route that were absolutely extraordinary. Every minute that I was there, I was learning something. And, you know, this provincial governors, heads of very important companies, talking about building nuclear icebreakers, talking about having the North Sea Route open for commerce all year long.

Soon. Soon means in the next two to three years. So opening the Arctic for commerce means icebreakers so that ships could go from Greenland to Russia or from whatever to wherever. But that's basically what it means. It doesn't mean people living on ice, or does it? No, it does not, George. It means commerce.

And there will be very special hubs coordinating all that. The most important hub in Russia is the port of Murmansk. I plan to go to Murmansk in the next few months to see by myself what they're doing over there. And apparently something absolutely extraordinary. And this is where they're building some of the new nuclear icebreakers. Russia has the number one fleet of nuclear icebreakers in the world, and they keep building it. The U.S. doesn't have anything.

So in terms of configuring the North Sea Route or Arctic Silk Road, as the Chinese call it, because the Chinese are going to be the number one users of that. For instance, you can have a ship leaving from Vladivostok or from the East China Sea, getting to Murmansk, and from Murmansk it can go to the Baltic very, very easily and reach Europe. And it's cheaper and faster than the Suez Canal. So it's about connectivity corridors. This is our running theme for all of us who are following Eurasia. The number one geoeconomic theme is building connectivity corridors.

And this is one of the most important for the near future, the North and Sea route. And the other one is the North-South transportation corridor, which is North to South. Then it's Russia, Iran, and India. So I wonder, of course, this will be something for American investigative reporters, assuming there are still a few left in the U.S. Yeah. Who knows about this in the Beltway in detail? I'm not sure. I don't know the answer to that.

I don't know if Pete Hegseth or Marco Rubio or Sebastian Gorka or Mike Nolte or Tulsi Gabbard or any of the people with whom Trump plants this around himself will know this. But let me get back to BRICS. Yes. Does he view BRICS as a threat to the dollar or does he view BRICS as a trading partner? From what Trump said so far, which was not too much, he sees BRICS as a threat to the dollar. That's why he said that he's going to impose 100% tariffs on anybody who will try to bypass the US dollar. Sorry, it's not going to work. First of all, Trump and his team have to understand what BRICS are aiming at. And the number one drive for BRICS is not to have a BRICS currency from one day to another. No. It's against the way the IMF and the World Bank are configured in extracting structural adjustment from an array of nations all across the global south. This is

what the top BRICS and the new BRICS and the BRICS partners, and the new full BRICS like Indonesia, which two weeks ago became a full BRICS member. This is what they want to do. More trade in our own currencies and we have to solve the problem

of our collective foreign debt. And most of our foreign debt is to the problem of our collective foreign debt. And most of our foreign debt is to the IMF and the World Bank. Right. You spoke about tariffs. Yes. I mean, what will happen if Trump imposes these tariffs, aside from the fact that you won't be able to buy anything at Walmart in America, all the $15 and $20 an hour people that work at Walmart will be out of work. I would think that there'd be a domino effect, which would be catastrophic for the American economy, if he, in some fit of anger or even after some serious deliberation, found some wacky economists that agreed with him

that 100% tariffs would somehow bring about prosperity or peace? Well, it would be very easy for Donald Trump to pick up the phone and call Michael Hudson. Michael would explain this to him in five minutes over the phone, why it would be a debacle for the American economy. And assuming this would happen, the whole of Eurasia and most of the BRICs who are across Eurasia and different parts of Asia, they are trading more and more among themselves. So that's it.

They would ignore the American market, in fact, considering the fact that they don't have much... If Trump were to say to a Dell computer, I'm just picking Dell, you can't buy computer chips made in Taiwan, what is the economic effect of that? Absolutely. o que é o efeito econômico disso? Absolutamente, e não se esqueça das empresas americanas localizadas que estão trabalhando na Ásia e têm suas fábricas na Ásia, especialmente na China. Obviamente não vai funcionar, então isso

podemos atribuir a um desses típicos We can attribute it to one of those typical Trumpian effect stuff. But any serious economist will say, no, okay, maybe you can 10% tariffs, 20% tariffs, which he's going to impose anyway against Chinese products and against manufactured European products as well. These are going to happen. It will be a sort of, let's say, low-level trade war against parts of Asia and the European Union. But, yes, please, go ahead. In Trump's world, what becomes of the EU, or doesn't he give a damn? He doesn't give a damn, George. And you, NATO, which is absolutely fascinating because this twin

process of, like Edgar Allan Poe, the pit and the pendulum, who's going to the pit at the same time? Both of them, the EU and NATO, in parallel, in fact. And what Mark rooted, the UN and NATO, in parallel, in fact. And what Mark Rutte, the new head of NATO, the Dutch guy, former prime minister, who was very bright, he said a few days ago that you have to start thinking of actually devoting 5% of your GDP to defense. Otherwise, you're going to have to start speaking Russian. He said something along these lines.

So this is pretty much what Trump demanded during the campaign, 5%, isn't it? Exactly, Judge. So this is a 150% hike. Well, these EU chihuahuas, they don't have that kind of money. First of all, because all of them are deeply indebted. Gord, I've got to stop you for a second.

Who are you calling chihuahuas? And why? I know the answer to these questions because of the communications we have off-air. And why are you calling them chihuahuas? All of them in Europe are chihuahuas, George. We have glamorous chihuahuas like Italy, and we have absolutely horrid rabbit chihuahuas like the Baltic chihuahuas. But all of them are

essentially chihuahuas. And from the point of view of Trump 2.0, everything here in this continent is a bunch of Chihuahuas. So plundering the Chihuahuas, perfect, because this is part of the looting the allies plan, which will go side by side with confronting the BRICS. Confronting the BRICS is much more complicated. So it's no wonder that Trump, very, very faithful to his alpha male image, he came up with a diversion and said, okay, so now basically we're going to order the chihuahuas

to do what we want to do. And that includes, of course, Denmark, Denmark, Greenland. And in terms of tariffs, he's going to impose tariffs all across the European Union. Elon Musk has also an interest on that because Elon Musk is a target for the European Commission in Brussels. They're trying to go after X big, big time for quite a while. And now with Musk in a very, very important position in the American government, the chihuahuas are already, oh, maybe that's a bad idea. Maybe we need to talk to Musk.

All right. Let me divert your attention to Ukraine. While we were on air earlier today with Professor Gilbert Doctorow, President Zelensky said to the Polish press agency in the presence of Polish Prime Minister Tusk, quote, the sooner Ukraine becomes a member of the EU and NATO, the sooner we will all achieve geopolitical stability. is he out of his mind completely completely first of all because several of these chihuahuas judge have already said that no way and i will include to start with hungary slovakia and Austria. And there are others. And some of the chihuahuas haven't said anything so far.

They look at Ukraine and they see a black hole. No way. Absolutely out of the question in terms of EU. In terms of NATO, it's different. In terms of NATO, until now, we are in the last days, the funeral rites of this administration. The idea of a new NATO was London, Warsaw, the Baltic Chihuahuas and Kiev. So we can't forget about Kiev as part of the equation.

So we're left with London, Warsaw and the Baltic Chihuahuas. It's not enough to configure a new powerful NATO. But this was the emphasis with the Democrats in power in the US so far. We still don't know if there's going to be an emphasis under Trump or if he's going to say basically, okay, it's 5%. You don't want to pay? Okay, I don't care. Well, President Zelensky was not the only crazy person at this gathering in Poland.

Polish Prime Minister Tusk said, quote, the Polish presidency of the EU Council will break the deadlock. We will work together with Ukraine and our European partners to accelerate the accession process. He's talking about Ukraine becoming part of NATO. I will appeal to everyone in Europe and Poland. Investment in the defense of Ukraine is help for Europe. It is help for Poland.

He's also in another world. Completely. I mean, if Donald Trump turns off the spigot of aid to Ukraine, isn't it over in a couple of weeks? Yes. If that would happen, Judge, it will be over in a couple of weeks. No question. Obviously, the deep state will never allow it to happen.

Even if Trump did that, he's not going to do that. There's going to be a more, let's say, manageable approach to weapons will continue to flow to Ukraine from the US via Europe, via third parties, etc. But not until this week, literally, with the Democrats in power. Well, we have been on air, Pepe. President Biden has addressed the nation very briefly, taking credit for the ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas. President-elect Trump had already taken credit for it, basically saying, you see what I did before I'm in office? Just wait until I'm back in office, and you'll be pleased with what I can accomplish. But we knew they both were going to seek credit.

I don't know your view. My view is that Stephen Witkoff, Trump's emissary, put the squeeze on Prime Minister Netanyahu to accept a plan that he had rejected between four and seven times. It's not clear how many times he rejected it. However, apparently, there are side deals quite pleasing to Prime Minister Netanyahu, which include the reintroduction into the U.S. of this deadly Israeli software called Zero Click and a promise that if the IDF moves back into Gaza, the U.S. will support them even if it disagrees with the reason for which they moved back in. So it's hard to say who took credit for it. I don't think this would have happened without Trump getting elected, but this may not be the blessing that everybody expects.

Exactly. First of all, it's not a blessing because the genocide could have been prevented. Yes. And it was not. So this will be, history will judge it, this will be forever on the Democrats. Number two, as you correctly explained, Trump forced BB to take this deal. This is the headline. There's no question about that.

We still don't know the fine print. Absolutely. And there was a very, very, well, they are dodgy. They are complicated. The royals in Qatar, they were instrumental in getting this deal done. We don't know, maybe in the next few days and weeks we will know what the Qataris promised the Israelis. We still don't know. They promised something. But they were instrumental because they were the number one interlocutors with Hamas. Not Turkey, by the way.

Qatar. So I think in the next few days we're going to start having details about the fine print. But from the point of view of those Old Testament psychopathologicals in Tel Aviv, this is horrible. It's a defeat. This is fire. What did they accomplish apart from killing a lot of people and provoking devotion all across the planet? One of our viewers writes in, okay, Judge, I understand that Trump is taking credit and Biden will take credit. Who will take the blame when Bibi resumes the genocide? Right to your point, Pepe.

Exactly. Absolutely correct. And I cannot even imagine the judgment of history years and decades from now. And the complicity of the collective, not only the U.S., the collective West to what happened. Even, no, I would say even worse, the Arab world. The complicity of literally 90% of the Arab world, including Qatar, which at the last minute, of course, now they are posing as peacemakers. They were never peacemakers. They could have done this a year and a half, well, 15, 16 months ago. They didn't. And I was in Qatar a few months ago. I asked this question over there and nobody could give me an answer wow, not surprised

Pepe, what a pleasure my dear friend, everybody should read this piece of yours about MAGA and the chaos that's coming or the macho that's coming

however you want to look at it I try to make it light say again that's coming or the macho that's coming, however you want to look at it. Thank you, my dear friend. I tried to make it light. Say again. Instead of this huge, meaty essay, I tried something that, you know, pop. It's very light and calling the new administration the greatest show on earth is enough to make anybody

that can read to want to start reading this. We'll see you next week, Pepe. Thank you so much. Thank you, Judge. All the best. Thank you. All the best. Coming up at three o'clock this afternoon on all of this, Phil Giraldi, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.