Judging Freedom - Pepe Escobar - LIVE from Moscow

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

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Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, September 26, 2024. Joining us from Moscow is our dear friend, Pepe Escobar. Pepe, thank you very much. Thanks for accommodating my schedule. We had seven shows today and you were the last and sometimes we save the most significant for the very end, but I appreciate your time very much.

Almost midnight in Moscow. Almost midnight in Moscow. An experience I sometime and someday want to want to have and share with you. Absolutely. Thank you. Last week, we had a strange series of events in the United States. and Prime Minister Stormer got together for what they had led everybody to believe would be an announcement permitting the Ukrainians to use British and American weaponry, which means British and American technicians, to fire long-range missiles deep into Moscow. Secretary

Blinken and Foreign Minister Lame gave every indication at a press conference in Kiev the day before that the question would be answered yes. Apparently, the American Defense Department persuaded President Biden while Keir Starmer and Tony Blinken were flying across the Atlantic that this was not a wise thing to do, and that President Putin's indications that he would react accordingly should be taken seriously. And then the announcement was made, this is not going to happen. Our friend and colleague, and also a Russian expert, Professor Gilbert Doctorow, is of the view that the Russians did not believe the sincerity or accuracy or longevity of Joe Biden's decision that this will not happen,

and as a result, changed their policy for the use of hypersonic and nuclear weapons so as to allow an attack on any country that uses equipment that flies into Russia that comes from a nuclear state. Long-winded question. Is the Kremlin skeptical about whether or not this permission will ever be given? And is the Kremlin to be taken seriously when it says we are locked and loaded? Okay, I'll try to be as concise as possible. The Kremlin and Putin, they are realists. They don't deal with hypotheticals and don't deal with guesswork.

So they were scrutinizing what was coming from the Democrats in the US and from Starmer in the UK. They knew that the possibility of a green light was there. Some in the Security Council and in the intelligence agencies, according to their interpretation, the green light had already been given. What Putin did was something, was once again a very clear message so this was building on that famous interview in the streets of saint petersburg a few days ago so uh this the meeting this week was very very serious because the whole security council was there including the heads of the main agencies, SVR for Intel and Bortnikov for the FSB. And they tweak a little bit the Russian doctrine,

knowing that this tweak is directly pointing to US, NATO and Ukraine. So now it means that if Russia is attacked, for instance, by a swarm of drones plus missiles operated by NATO operatives inside Ukraine or in Eastern Europe, everybody is guilty. So the response can be tactical nukes. And I'm sure this time, at least some in the Pentagon, I wouldn't count on the White House and I wouldn't count on Jake Sullivan, for instance. But the Pentagon, I think now they got the message. It's a completely different ballgame. Here is that meeting that you mentioned. You'll probably recognize because you can see the sides of their heads, when

President Putin made this very, very stern announcement. Cut number 21. The updated version of the document proposes that aggression against Russia by any non-nuclear weapon state, but with the participation or support of a nuclear weapon state, should be regarded as a joint attack on the Russian Federation. The conditions for Russia's transition to the use of nuclear weapons are also clearly defined. We will consider such a possibility as soon as we receive reliable information about a massive launch of aerospace attack means and their crossing of our state border, meaning strategic or tactical aircraft, cruise missiles, drones,

hypersonic missiles, and other aircraft. We reserve the right to use nuclear weapons in the event of aggression against Russia and Belarus as a member of the Union State. All these issues have been agreed upon with the Belarusian side and with the President of Belarus. This includes cases when the enemy, using conventional weapons, poses a critical threat to our sovereignty. I don't know if you could see the date up there in the upper right hand corner. It was September 25, which is yesterday. It was yesterday, yes.

Which is five days after President Biden angrily said, we're not going to do this. So they still don't believe what he said. They must have intel that tells them a reason not to believe him. But, Judge, this is not the most important issue. Once again, this is a very realistic policy. The Kremlin and the Security Council, now they are covering all bases. If you look at the way, the structuring, the phrasing of what Putin was saying, it's very, very clear. It's the same package. Ukraine, NATO, NATO technicians, and US. Now it's all in the same package, which was not before, you know. And Belarus is extremely

important because Russian intel knows that there's always a strong possibility that Ukrainians will try a new front on Belarus, a limited invasion of Belarusian territory. And it's the Union State. Basically, it's practically the same thing, Russia and Belarus. Right, right. How close was President Putin to the use of hypersonic or nuclear weapons last week? Definitely he was not close. And we all remember the testy exchange that he had at the Vladivostok, at the Sochi Forum, I'm sorry, last year with Sergei Karaganov. Karaganov was trying to force Putin to admit that the Russian nuclear doctrine needed a tweak. At the time, and this was,

in fact, this was a year ago. I was there. I remember very well. One year ago, and Putin, he didn't like being cornered in public in the middle of a very important forum by Karaganov, although they get along very well. Karaganov is the guy who came up with the concept of Greater Eurasia Partnership, which is an official Russian government council uniting the whole of Eurasia. And he said, no, we don't need it. Our doctrine is very explicit. Now it's even more explicit. But as you ask correctly, five days ago, six days ago, he probably thought it was not necessary. Not necessary. President, why does the West, particularly the U.S. and the U.K.,

consistently underestimate President Putin and the Russians in general? Wow, this would require... This is a treatise. This is a 400-page treatise. This would require a string of judging freedoms for an adequate response. But, you know, the quick response from the point of view of the British ruling class, an atavic hate of everything Russian. It's Russophobia to the limit.

I think this started at the time of Catherine the Great, in fact, not during the great game at the end of the 19th. It precedes that. And on the case of the Americans, because nobody among the American ruling elite in fact, they never read Claude Lévi-Strauss, which is a basic anthropological lesson of Lévi-Strauss. Try to understand the other. From the point of view of these people, the other is always subordinate, a vessel, or doesn't exist, or should not be respected, and is not equal to us. This is the short answer. Okay, very interesting answer.

But you're right, this is a short answer. NATO is united, NATO is stronger than it is today than it was in February of 2022, and President Putin has failed in his goals in Ukraine. Is any of this even remotely accurate? No, this is stratospheric nonsense, in fact. The problem is that the people who have a brain among NATO generals, and they know that the humiliation is just around the corner. It can be a matter of a few months, it can be a matter of until mid-2025, but the rules-based international order, which is something that came to me after my two visits to Donbass this year. This is where it's being buried, in the black soil of Novorossiya, and for the Americas, and for NATO. This is beyond

anatomy, but there's nothing. They tried everything and it didn't work. So this last gambit of storm shadows hitting targets deep inside the Russian Federation, maybe it's their last gamble short of entering in a full-fledged war against Russia, which if they do it, they'll be devastated in the first few days. When the Kremlin hears President Biden say things like NATO is united, NATO is stronger, Putin is a failure, what do they think? Well, they see it as rhetoric, and they don't even pay attention anymore. And they dismiss this as, okay, this is a bunch of

clowns. Especially because on a diplomatic level, these things should be... During the Cold War, we all remember, they would sit down at a table and discuss that in Reykjavik or in Geneva or whatever. Now, there's no diplomacy

anymore because the Americans buried diplomacy. And the Russians who have probably the most well-prepared diplomatic corps on the planet, Lavrov, Ryabkov, everybody else, they said, look, we tried everything with these people. It's impossible. So we don't listen to them anymore. It's irrelevant. We are following our own objectives. What is coming up soon with respect to BRICS? And how significant is that in international economic relationships? Well, judge it's enormous. But there are serious, serious problems.

We have to be realists, especially all of us who are here following closely the deliberations, the discussions. The column that I published early this week, this Monday, I was just outlining what's on the table, what's being discussed, what should be on the table presented to the leaders at the summit in Kazan in October 22nd, which is, what, four weeks from now, literally tomorrow. Analysis by Russian analysts and an analysis by Professor Michael Hudson, which goes in parallel to the Russian analysts, and with some startling proposals as well. But the problem is, and this is what I heard from one of the people who are part of the BRICS business council.

These are the top deciders, the top sherpas, let's put it this way, who are putting this all together. Then they have to redact everything, send to the leaders. The leaders have to read it, and they need to come to a conclusion four weeks from now. Obviously, this being Russia, where everything is practically decided at the last minute, wow, still mountains, the Himalayas to climb. People are optimistic, but it's extremely complicated.

But is the goal of BRICS or this particular meeting to start the ball rolling toward a new universally accepted currency in place of the dollar? A new Bretton Woods agreement, if you will. I'm taking a line from your column. In fact, we're taking a line from Michael, Judge. Because Michael proposed that we exchange emails and Michael proposed what should happen is a BRICS Bretton Woods. Yes, it will happen, but not now. It's going to take years. How economically powerful is BRICS? Isn't its collective gross domestic product considerably more than the collective gross domestic product of the G7? Of the G7, yes, and it keeps rising.

Absolutely. And depending on who's going to be part of the next round of BRICS expansion, some countries in Southeast Asia, for instance, will be even higher. Or, for instance, Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan is on the top tier of the candidates. Turkey. Turkey now suddenly, you know, this is something that I will learn soon in Istanbul. How serious is Erdogan about it? Apparently very serious now. So this will change the whole thing. But what Lavrov said early this year still holds. First, we need to accommodate the new members. Everybody has to be comfortable at the table. Then we're going to start thinking about expansion, which means next year. But the geoeconomic aspects, these are the most important ones because the whole global majority,

88% of the population of the world, they'll be glued to BRICS four weeks from now and say, OK, what about the dollarization? What about new payment settlements? What about something that it's called BRICS Pay? A very simple mechanism. 159 countries already said, we like that. We want to start using. It's a bypass swift kind of direct payment between companies and even between individuals. Global, way beyond Bricks. So if they approve something like this, this is in itself is a game changer. And of course, something that they call Bricks Bridge,

which is very hard to get a 10 second explanation here from anybody because it's copied from the Enbridge system, which an example that is easily available. The Thais buy Emirates oil and they pay via Enbridge. So they don't need to worry about currency fluctuation. BRICS, BRIDGE want to do the same thing. For the BRICS, it didn't expand for the BRICS candidates as well. If they put this on the table, this is another big, big thing.

The new currency is not going to happen. There's not going to be a BRICS currency approved next month. No, that's not the point. What about a BRICS substitute for the SWIFT bank system or this electronic system you just mentioned? Exactly. It's not a substitute. It would be an alternative to SWIFT bank system or this electronic system you just mentioned. Exactly. It's not a substitute to be an alternative to SWIFT. Got it. And the thing is, it's not clear yet,

because this is what the Sherpas are discussing 24-7, you know. Okay, is this going to apply to governments, to companies, to individuals, to all of the above? Not decided. So there's a lot of spadework that still needs to be done. So Pepe, a college freshman studying Economics 101, knows that the Russian economy is in far better shape today than it was two or three years ago. Do the Americans know that their sanctions have had the opposite effect

on Russia, Moscow, the Kremlin, President Putin, the consumers in the country than what they expected? Well, Americans who follow mainstream media in the US, no way they know about it. But there is a considerable audience of Americans who not only are tuned to alternative

social media or websites, etc., but follow media across Asia or parts of Southeast Asia or they follow media from hong kong for instance then they have an idea that you know the important information is circulating across eurasia and this is almost in the public domain from from turkey to siberia literally but not in the west same thing about In Europe, people have no clue of what the BRICS are discussing, for instance, because you don't see it anywhere on mainstream

media all across Europe. With respect to the military operation in Ukraine, does President Putin still embrace the same level of patience that he has been demonstrating in the past two years? Or is something big going to happen that will end this quickly? It's very unlikely that something big is going to happen. First of all, because one of the top considerations for putting the Kremlin and the Security Council is support from the Global South. So the Global South, the global majority, most of it understand Russia's motives, even if they do not support the whole thing. But they understand that this is a proxy war by the US using Europe and using Ukraine against Russia. So, you know, people understand this in Indonesia, in Malaysia, obviously in China, but they also admire exactly Putin and Lavrov's Taoist monk patience in dealing with all that, in dealing with a bunch of lunatics, in fact.

So the Russians, they are carefully looking at the chessboard all the time. We should not do anything rash and antagonize the Global South or a great deal of the Global South. Because this is also an enormous PR operation, especially now that they are presiding the BRICS. So the whole energy of the Russian government at the moment is not direct towards the SMO or the counter-terrorist operation. In fact, it's directed to have a successful BRICS meeting because the whole global majority will be glued to it. Last question. Will Turkey join BRICS? And if it does, will it leave NATO? Wow.

Another treatise. Yes, exactly. Judge, I'll answer this question after I go to Istanbul. I'll go to Istanbul in two weeks. When I come back, I promise you a direct answer. You'll have the answer. Got it, my friend. Thank you very much. Thank you, Pepe. I know it's the middle of the night there. Get a good night's sleep. Much appreciated. Hope you'll come back again soon. All the best. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Tomorrow, Friday, four o'clock in the afternoon the boys the intelligence community roundtable judge napolitano for judging freedom Thank you.