Judging Freedom - Pepe Escobar : What to Expect From China

Episode Date: April 22, 2026

Pepe Escobar : What to Expect From ChinaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Fragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? Jefferson was right? What if that government is best, which governs least? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish

fighting for freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Wednesday, April 22nd, 226. The great Pepe Escobar joins us now. Pepe, always a pleasure. Cheers, sir.

Where did we find you? Where are you, Pepe? Cheers from Buddhist peaceful Southeast Asia, Bangkok. Buddhist peaceful Southeast Asia. That's a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you for accommodating my schedule. You have written extensively about the geographic significance and vitality

of Iran as a connector to major powers. Will those three powers, Russia, China, India, allow Iran to fall to the Americans and the Israelis? They can't judge because Iran, just like in old Persian times, when Persian dynasty and for instance, the Tang Dynasty, they were doing business across Eurasia. There were middlemen in Sogdiana, meaning Samarkand and Bukhara. But they were trading among themselves for centuries. And today, still, Iran is the definitive crossroads of inter-Eurasia trade. So that's why these three extra bricks apart from Iran, full member of bricks.

Russia, China and India, they are absolutely involved in having a functional Iranian state and economy, because it's a key trading partner for all of them. And this is what I tried to explain in my latest relatively long article. The key is, I coined this expression four years ago, the war of connectivity corridors. Connectivity corridors because this is the great geoeconomic project for Eurasian. To simplify, it's a very complex story. Chris is putting up a map. Wonderful.

East to West. The Chinese New Silk Road's Belt and Root Initiative, they have six or seven different corridors going through from East, from Xinjiang in eastern China to west. they all go, almost all of them go through Iran. And only a little while ago, they finished the China-Iran railway, which is part of their east-west corridor. There's another one called Middle Corridor,

there's corridors through the Trans-Siberian. But this one is very, very important because it links Xinjiang in Western China through Central Asia, going to Turkmenistan and then the Turkmenistan-Iranian border, crossing the border, across Iran. And the key point is a dry port, 20 kilometers only outside of Tehran. Yes, you can see it in the map. That's a great map, Chris. It is.

Now you can see how close India is. You can see this route to China. and if the map were just a little higher, you could draw a red line up to Moscow. Am I right? Of course, Judge, because Iran is at the center of the International North-South Transportation Corridor, INSTC, which is Russia, Iran, and India.

There was the documentary that we shot last year in Iran, which all of you are others. You can see it on the Press TV website. It was an immense honor for a foreigner. They gave me full access from the Caspian Sea to Bandar Abbas, to the Persian Gulf, to Chabahar in Istanbul, all the way to the Iran-Pakistani border. So this is the first documentary in English explaining to a global audience, what is this connectivity corridor? This red line is the railroad you're talking about, is it not?

This red line is basically, let's say, the classic Silk Road itinerary by rail from Sian in the east across Sing Jan. You can see Urumchi here, the capital of Xinjiang. And then he goes through Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and he gets all the way to Turkmenistan, Ashkabad capital of Turkmenistan, crosses the border and gets to this dry port that I was talking about, which is 20 kilometers outside of Tehran. What is transported on that train line from Western Iran to eastern China? What is on there? Mostly what China exports to Central Asia and Iran, all sorts of manufactured products. Another thing that could start happening soon, and it's another parallel corridor for Iran,

they can export oil through this railway as well. Of course, much less quantities, but it's also an oil corridor. They can use it as one of their backup oil corridors to China over land, and of course, immune to sanctions and immune to American blockade. Are the Americans and Israelis aware of this? Or not they care? Or do they want to disrupt it? If you ask anybody in Washington, Judge, about the INSTC, forget it.

They have no clue what this is all about. Just like Trump didn't know what Bricks is all about. The ignorance in deciding circles in the U.S. about everything that is being happening in Eurasia geo-economically is staggering. They only know that the Russians have the Arctic Silk Road, as the Chinese call it. The Russians call it the Norsean route, because, of course, Arctic, Siberia, and the Americas would like to be part of it. But that's about it. And this is the Russian new connectivity corridor. This column that I wrote,

is basically about columns involving Persian Gulf and Iran. And the two most important are east to west horizontally from China to Iran and north to south from Moscow to Mumbai, the north-south corridor, which crosses Iran. When we were shooting last year, Judge, we crossed Iran on the road. We went to the Caspian, and then we came back. via Tehran to KOM and Isfahan. We went all the way to Bandar Abbas, the port. You can see on the map.

And then we flew to Chabahar, which is a 40-minute flight. And then we were on the road again all the way to the Iran-Pakistani border. And very important for our audience. The Americans bombed the port of Bandar-Anzali in the Caspian. They bombed Tehran. They bombed outside of Isfahan. and they bombed a military base in Chavaharport as well. Not to mention that they bombed a stretch of the Chinese built and paid railway inside Iran.

So I go back to what I asked you earlier. Yes. Will Russia, China and India allow Israel and the U.S. to eviscerate Iran, Iran. Doesn't appear that they have the ability to do it, but this is what they set out to do. Is that absolutely not, Judge? Absolutely not because this process of Eurasia integration is something that started in the 2000s, picked up speed in the 2010s, and picked up even faster, like driving a Maserati turbo in the 2020. So everybody is involved. These three bricks, China, Russia, and India, Their relationship with Iran, which is excellent, all three of them.

Some are strategic partnerships, which is the case of Russia, Iran, and China, Iran. And, of course, they know what the American design is. The American design is divide and rule in Eurasia so we can get a cut of something. They don't know exactly what it is. Let me ask you about the red line with the dots in it going up through Eastern Europe, sort of almost along the Adriatic. Does that exist or is that plan? It does, judge, because this is the connection between Tehran and Istanbul, the railway.

This already exists. You can branch out to Baku as well. It's quite possible. You can branch out to Basra in southern Iraq, also possible. And, of course, if you cross Anatolia, if you cross from Turkey, across Anatolia all the way to Istanbul, then you connect with the European railway grid. And further down from Vienna, West, all the way to,

like the Chinese already do, the trains that, for instance, I was in Chongqing in China earlier this year. I was at the ground zero of the Silk Road. The trains that leave Chongqing, they go all the way to Madrid in Spain. Some go to Rotterdam, some go to Hamburg. Most of them go to Madrid. How long is that train ride?

From China to Madrid. 15 days? I think it's 15 days, if I'm not mistaken. And because it's very easy now to leave China and enter Central Asia because the customs procedures are almost automatic. I went to this border a few years ago, the border of Xinjiang and Kazakhstan, and all the trains go through this border, and then they enter Central Asia, and they keep going west. And now they're streamlining all the procedures.

So you can have a cargo manifesto going through customs everywhere, and it's homogenized. extraordinary another Chinese invention I wanted to set the table so the viewing audience would have an understanding of what's truly at stake here

so now let's go back to the war who presently controls the Strait of War moves 110% the IRGC Navy there's no question about that According to President Trump, the Navy has been obliterated.

Okay, I prefer not even to comment on that because it's completely absurd. Is the IRGC Navy? The problem is the Americans, when they started their illegal, once again, a blockade, if you own a tanker, you have to think twice before crossing the Strait of Hormuz. Number one, you need to clear your passage. This means you need to present all the documents. You pay the toll, which can be in UN or in crypto or in cash, if you have, they accept cash as well. Then you get a VHF radio signal so you can leave the Strait of Hormuz.

The problem is you're going to meet the Invincible American Armada when you reach. reach the extremity of the Sea of Oman are already in the Arabian Sea, assuming they are there. In fact, most of them are not. Most of them are in the Southern Indian Ocean, which is 7, 800 kilometers down south in the Indian Ocean. So they have to calculate, okay, we're going to pay for that, but what if we are confiscated by the Americans when we try to leave towards the Arabian Sea? So that's a very complicated calculation. And no wonder the costs for ensuring tankers, they shot up 400% in the past few days. Would anybody dare send a tanker full of oil in that area without insurance?

No, you can't. No, you can't. But the costs, of course, they add to what you're caring. An extra problem. If you are a new A.E. The UAE is saying, we refuse to pay the tall blue. to the Iranians. So nothing is leaving the UAE already. So once again, who pays the price? The global economy. Saudi Arabia, they are trying to divert everything to the Red Sea.

So far the Red Sea is open. If we enter the escalation trap, the Houthis, Ansarala, the Yemeni armed forces, they will close the Bab al-Mandab. And then that's it. No more Saudi oil exports. So for the moment, we're having Iranian oil exports. Most of them are going through. In fact, these past few days, over 20 ships went through. It means they went across the American blockade. So we don't know exactly where the Americans are brocading and what are they blockading. So they have this Netflix, Hollywood, flashy operations.

Ah, we intercepted a ship. Okay, but they intercepted coming from not leaving the straight-over, not leaving the straight-over moves, not leaving Iran, but coming from the port of Goulin, which is in Zuhai, in southern China, not very far from Hong Kong, because in the American scheme of things, ah, this is going to be full of sodium perchlorate for solid. fuel for Iran ballistic missiles. We don't know if this is true or not. Trump said that we found

some nasty, interesting stuff or whatever. We assume that he's referring to sodium percolate. And this was the reason why the Americans boarded this ship. But the ships who are living from Iranian ports, they are going through the Strait of Ormuse and the Gulf of Oman, and they keep going.

So we don't know how effective is the American location. Nobody really really knows. What military gear, using the word gear so as to cover everything, armaments, ammunition systems that send the armaments out, what military gear is China selling to Iran? Well, essentially that we really know is sodium percolate for solid fuel for Iran ballistic missiles. Apart from that, everything is speculation. There's no hard evidence from anywhere, much less from the Chinese. For the Chinese, it's a matter of national security.

What we know for sure is satellite info 24-7. But this is everybody knows since the beginning of the war, in fact. The American blockade, or what they call a blockade, is truly out on the high seas. you said yourself seven to eight hundred kilometers that's about 500 miles yes for those of us in the west that don't understand kilometers yeah south of the iran pakistan uh... court right isn't isn't the u.s blockade by law and by treaty both an act of aggression and a war crime completely completely and let me quote

here, Judge, what I, let me see where I put it in my article. Yes. The article 3C of the UN General Assembly Resolution 3-314, which it's the definition of aggression, essentially.

I'm quoting. The blockade of ports of course of a state by the armed forces of another state qualifies as an act of aggression. So that's what it is. And this is what Arakshi in his posts on X, he's been saying again and again.

And the key reason why there was no Islamabad too, the Iranis would have gone to Islamabad too if there was no American blockade. This was debated at the Security Council at the highest level in Tehran. But with the blockade on, there's no point in going there. And on top of that, as Arachshi also posted, they are attacking our ships.

So, there's something extra, Judge, which is very, very important. Back to the Geneva Convention in 1958 on territorial sea and contiguous zones, which was amplified by Iranian legislation in 1993. You stress the right of, between commas, innocent passage. So Iran cannot, Iran can invoke the right of non-induced. innocent passage because there are vessels, American vessels, there are treating Iranian security. So they have the right to regulate the passage across the Strait of Ormuse,

basically qualifying this non-innocent passage of possible American warships coming to the Strait of Hormuz. Of course, they won't because if they do, so you're going to be incinerated by anti-ship missiles all across the the Persian Gulf coastline and the Sea of Oman coastline as well. That's why they are so far away. Yeah. At the risk of getting too philosophical, does anybody care about war crimes anymore?

No. It's a very good question just because no. This is the empire of piracy by definition. It's not only chaos, lies, plunder, it's piracy. And now the empire of blockades. And the blockade, they are already. already saying it out loud, it's going to be a global blockade. And it's not only Iran. That includes Russia.

The Russians know how to read the fine print. This is blocking trying to blockade Russia in the Black Sea, in the Baltics, in the Eastern Mediterranean, and blockaded the Iranians, not only Persian Gulf and Sea of Oman and Arabian Sea, but as far as getting close. to the Strait of Malacca, which means long-term blockaging China out of the Strait of Malacca, which is what the Chinese have been thinking about 24-7 for 25 years. Well, the Chinese are prepared to assure that the Strait of Malacca is open. Of course they are, but a desperate empire in, I would say, mid-term, they could try to

pull off something in the Strait of Malac. Don't forget, Judge, this is very, very worrying. And the Indonesians have not explained it at all. This is the military defense deal that their Ministry of Defense sign with the headset in Washington is so fishy that the Ministry of Foreign Relations in Jakarta told their own Ministry of Defense, what are you? you doing? We are a BRICS member. Are you thinking of giving overflight rights to the Americans here in the Strait of Malacca, which, by the way, everybody knows, is being... Looks like we're frozen for a minute. While you were explaining the significance of the Strait of Malacca and how there's a dichotomy in the Indonesian government as to whether

the United States has air rights over it. Chris, I think we're probably... Oh, Harry, is you're back. Okay. I got you back. Yes. Yes. You have your hand in the air and you're cleaning the same difference from Malacca.

I'm very near the American embassy. They are across the street here. They're building a monster. And obviously, the interview with our podcast. There's no question about it. Well, we are the resistance. Exactly. What was it you were explaining?

Yes. So this is Malacca. And obviously the Chinese, for the past 25 years, there are a whole diversification strategy in terms of sources of energy. They used to, the code name was, escape from Malacca. But still, everything that comes from,

from the Persian Gulf to China still goes through the Strait of Malacca and then to the South China Sea. So China is still partially hostage to the Strait of Malacca. And if the Americans are, if the Americans, no, they are already thinking of a global blockade. And the global blockade will be against China. So obviously the number one candidate will be sooner or later the Strait of Malacca.

Wow. I guess this means World War III. Yes. That's okay. This is, look, finally, Judge, I decided I'm going to China next month. I was postponing this trip all the time because of the war. And my number one question, which I wonder if I'm going to get an answer, is, guys, when are you going to jump out of the fence that you're in? Because now you're being directly attacked, as part of this American global blockade.

It's against you, much more than against Iran. Are you going to send a task force to the Arabian Sea in the Gulf of Oman by any chance? What if they board one of your own tankers and not an Iranian tanker going to China? What if they board a Chinese tanker? What's going to be a Beijing's response? So it's getting more dangerous by the minute.

Wow. Pepe, thank you very much. Great, terrific analysis, as always, my dear friend. Thank you. This really completes the circle of analysis that your colleagues on this show have presented because of your unique knowledge of this part of the world and the commercial, as well as the geopolitical and military implications. Thank you, my dear friend. They're my neighbors here.

Right, right, right. Well, I hope your neighbors are peaceful while you're there, my dear friend. They are all peaceful, Judge. And the food is fantastic. All right. One of these days, we'll share it together. God love you. All the best. Thank you. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you so much. Thank you. Coming up still, at 2 o'clock, Professor Glendiz, and at 3 o'clock, the great Phil Giraldi. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.