Judging Freedom - Pepe Escobar : Will the EU Survive Itself?

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

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And with Ollie's in-app on-demand health screenings, tap real experts whenever you need peace of mind. Visit ollie.com slash crossover and use code crossover for 60% off your first box. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, December 23rd, 2025. Pepe Escobar will be here with us in just a moment on will the European Union last?

But first, this. History tells us every market eventually falls. Currencies collapse. And look at where we are now. 38 trillion in national debt. Stocks at record highs defying gravity. So what happens next? Groceries, gas, housing, everything's going up.

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Is it too late to buy? is at just the right time. Call my friends at Lear Capital to find out. Ask questions. Get the free information. There's no pressure. And that's why I buy my gold and silver from Lear. And right now, you can get up to $20,000 in bonus medals with a qualified purchase. Call 800, 511, 4620, or go to Learjudgeonap.com today. Pepe Escobar, welcome here, my dear friend. I have a lot to ask you about China, the Whitkoff negotiations, the latest EU scam. But before we do, a little bit of breaking news, Greta Thunberg, the climate activist, was quietly sitting in front of a London insurance company holding up a sign. And the sign said, I saw, support Palestinian hunger strikers, and for that, she was arrested, and as we speak, she's in jail. How, how there's no freedom of, I know England is not in the EU anymore, but there's no freedom of speech whatsoever if you, if you transgress the government's

orthodoxy. Absolutely. And even if England is not part of the EU, especially England, Germany and France. These are the top three in terms of repression of their own citizens. Of course, following orders from Brussels, but in the case of the Brits, following their own MI6 counter-terror orders.

Well, I'm still in Italy. I spend it in Palermo today, and it's fantastic because Palermo is a real multicultural, multinodal pole. If you held up a sign in Palermo saying, I support the Palestinian action prisoners.

I oppose genocide. Would you be arrested in Palermo? It's an excellent question, Judge. It depends. In fact, it depends if you are a citizen of the European Union, certainly. Certainly, you could be arrested. But there's a very nuanced opposition

when we compare Italy to France and Germany and the UK. I've seen from the north, from Friuli, and even in Tuscany, even inside Fienze, banners supporting Palestine. I think I mentioned last time in our conversation last week, one of the first things that you see when you enter the port of Palermo is a gigantic white banner free Palestine. And today, walking around Palermo for many hours, and I went to, for instance, to the Bengali quarters, where there are a lot of Bangladeshi immigrants. Totally legal. They are part of the service industry here in Sicily.

And you see support for Palestine everywhere. So we have not seen Italians being detained in, literally in the street, like it can happen in Germany, UK or France. But we may be getting there. I went to London and held up a sign saying, I support the Palestine Action Prisoners I oppose genocide. Would I be arrested? Probably, probably, probably.

But because you carry an American passport, they probably would think twice. That's the same. That's the same. And if you are an extra communitari, as the Italians say here, for instance, if it's a Bangladeshi carrying a banner, like that, maybe they will let it go. But if you are Italian, you may be in deep, deep trouble, just like Frenchmen, French women, Germans.

So it is the post-Orwellian European Commission installed a system everywhere of total censorship. And soon this will extrapolate to direct criticism of the EU and the European Commission. Commission itself, which is something that we have already seen with some journalists and analysts who some of them, not even EU citizens in the case of Jacques Bo, but in the case, for instance, of French nationals who have access to Russia or who are working for Russian media, they are already being sanctioned. So there are no limits anymore. And everybody is aware, and progressive Italians everywhere, people have been talking to for the past three weeks non-stops. They know the stakes.

And still they say, no, we have to organize themselves. We have to organize grassroots movement. We have to be politically active. We cannot be intimidated. That's not what you see, for instance, in the UK, in France, or in Germany. So Colonel Beau, spelled B-A-U-D, but pronounced B-A-U-D, but pronounced Beau, is a Swiss citizen. The Swiss government still with its tail between its legs has done nothing for him. How can the EU sanction him when he's not an EU citizen? Because he lives

in Brussels. It's a major mistake for many of us and for many independent analysts, even if you carry a EU passport or not. Nowadays, to be in the EU. and to go against the overall narrative, especially on Palestine, but also on the proxy war in Ukraine, you are in very, very slippery territory, to say the least. And many of my friends tell me that I am in danger because I am in Europe. I try to explain to them, no, my situation is slightly different. But all of us who criticize directly the official position,

of Brussels on everything from the Forever Wars to Palestine, we have to be extremely careful. There's no question. Whatever happened, the freedom of speech. In Europe, it doesn't exist anymore, Judge. Period. It's over. It's over.

And the worst thing is when you see mainstream media simply absorbing this and treating it as normal. You should see the coverage of people who are slapped with sanctions In the Italian mainstream media, Correa de la Cera, La Stampa, a lot of republic. It's absolutely disgusting.

These people pose as journalists. It's beyond disgusting. They destroyed our profession completely. Let me ask you a few questions about China. In the past two weeks, the following has happened. The United States national security strategy pronounced that China is no longer an enemy. it's an economic competitor. Pretty good.

But the National Defense Authorization Act signed by President Trump last week gives $11 billion in offensive missiles to Taiwan. And last week, and last weekend, the United States Navy seized a Venezuelan vessel filled with oil, paid for by the Chinese destined to make its way to China. What kind of signals are being sent to China?

And more importantly, what do you think the Chinese will do about this? This is what all of us are asking everybody else. What is going to be the Chinese response? Because this time, this oil is bought and paid for, and a destination was China. So there's a gap to be a response. So far, they have been very diplomatic in those briefings by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. but they're going to have to step up their game. There's no question about that.

And overall, when you read carefully the NSS, it is a containment of China security strategy, but now much more ambiguous than before. The fact that China is not a peer competitor, Well, that was more than obvious, but China is a competitor all across the global south to the U.S. And this is anathema, including the Western Hemisphere. There is a certain passage in the NSA which blatantly states that the West will not tolerate foreign interference in the Western Hemisphere. This means essentially Russia, China, and Iran.

So this means that Donald Trump is going to prevent Chinese businesses from doing, business with Latin American businesses, free negotiated for bilateral commercial transactions and the U.S. is going to say no, because we don't like the government of the country in which one of these commercial actors is located. How is he going to do that, for instance, with Brazil? The number one trade partner of Brazil is China. The Chinese are investing fortunes in infrastructure in Brazil especially, and all sorts of business. What is Trump going to do about that? So it's ridiculous.

Just once again, empty threats. But it's very important conceptually to keep in mind that this NSS was ambiguously coordinated and conceptualized by a synophob. Elbridge Colby is a certified synophore and is one of the few people around Trump who actually manages to think strategically, if not the only one. So that's dangerous long-term.

Yes, yes, yes, please. It's an unusual word, but of course it means a person that hates all things Chinese. You asked, what can Trump do? Here's what Trump says he's going to do with the oil and the ship that the oil was in. Chris, cut number nine. Speaking of Venezuela, oil, what are we going to do with the oil that we have? Going to do with what? The oil that has been seized.

The United States seized 1.9 million barrels of oil on December 10th. We're going to keep it. Are we going to sell it or put in the strategic oil? Maybe we'll sell it. Maybe we'll keep it. Maybe we'll use it in the strategic reserves. We're keeping the ships also. When the Nazis did this before World War II, one of,

President Trump's better known predecessors, known by his initials, FDR, condemned it as theft. And now the United States of America is doing the same thing, the same theft. Actually, on a far grander scale, the ships weren't as big in those days. Absolutely. Well, it's a graphic illustration of something that was already going on even before the publication of the National Security Strategy, which is the Trump 2.0 administration war, hybrid war, and in some cases even maybe getting into hot war,

I guess what they consider the weaker nodes of the global south. And they identify Venezuela as one of the weaker nodes, not to mention a weak node full of natural resources. So if you cannot go frontally, engage in a war, on two different fronts against the Russia-China strategic partnership, real peer competitors, your plan

B is to attack the weaker notes. And now we're seeing the actual illustration of the NSS in front of us. And basically, just to finish that, this is our backyard and we do

whatever we want in our back. Like stealing oil. just like that and nobody can do anything about it well what will china do will they will they dump their treasury bonds thereby forcing the government to raise interest rates on them and borrow money to pay interest on borrowed money will they send ships to the uh other side of the western side of the panama now what will the chinese do they're not going to take this laying down no And they won't judge.

But don't forget that the Chinese are extremely cool and calculating when they are, in this case, they are attacked practically directed. It's not indirectly because this is China's oil, for that matter. Already bought and paid for. In terms of calibrating their foreign policy, it's going to be up a notch. It's not going to be only condemnations. by the Minister of Foreign Affairs and at the UN Security Council.

There's going to have to be some action. In terms of the bonds, they are getting rid of their bonds, but in a very steady, calculated way. They won't rush, but we will continue to do, which is something that almost everybody across East Asia is doing. There are no news about that. But the thing is, how can they de facto and practically support the Venezuelan government? The Russians already supported it by selling them and transferring a lot of hardcore, really hardcore military equipment.

The Chinese are going to start mulling, okay, what else can we do, apart from that? The Iranians already said that they are going to send Iranian vessels to Venezuela. So this has the potential of escalating very, very fast because the oil robbery or pirates of the Caribbean new stage of the Trump non-war on Venezuela is already on. And it's crazy because it started as a war on drugs. He moved to regime change and now it's pirates of the Caribbean. What next? Let's go over. There's a great observation.

A great, great observation. Chris will capture that clip and we'll post it so people can watch it on the shorts, the ones that they watch on their mobile devices. So let's go over to Europe. Last week, the Powers that Bay suffered a crushing defeat, Chancellor MERS, Prime Minister Starmor, President Macron, when they sought to persuade the EU leadership to consent to the theft, of 300 billion, more or less, in Russian assets and Belgian banks,

thanks to the steadfastness of the Belgian Prime Minister. Before you comment, you'll love this. Here's Victor Orban talking about this. Oh, this is a lot, Judge. Right. Credit Scott No. 6. Guarantees for what? The whole idea is a stupid one.

to take away the money of somebody. There are two countries which are in war, yeah? It's not European Union, Russia and Ukraine. And somebody, European Union, would like to take away the money of one of the warist party. And then to give it to another one. It's a marching into the war. So the Belgian prime minister is right. We should not do that.

Killer, absolute killer. So in as a backup position, the EU has voted to give 90 billion with some absurd, absurd repayment, no interest, to Zelensky. Where is the EU going to get the 90 billion? Exactly. This is the theme of my latest column, George. Exactly. And it's a pity because they changed my title. My title was how the European elites are paying for the privilege of losing a war.

They change to conflict. a war, it's not a conflict. Well, very, very important. This is not a loan. It's a grant, essentially. Everybody with a brain in Brussels knows that the black void in Kiev will never be able to repay, not even a fraction of these 90 billion. And it gets worse. They're going to have to go to the banks to get this 90 billion. Nobody in Europe has these 90 billion, not to mention EU funds. The interest rates is going to be astronomical. The first calculation, this is going to change, I would say on a weekly basis, is that only in interest the EU is going to pay three billion euros a year. This is probably going to get to four or five billion euros only on

interest. And who's going to pay for all that? EU-wide taxpayers. People already doing the math, at least here in Italy, people immediately start doing the mess. Okay, our crumbling infrastructure is going to be even worse. Investments in health and education are going to disappear. We are going to pay for these $90 billion that don't even exist so far. So this was their plan B at the last minute. Why? Because some advisors to some of the leaders,

they told their leaders exactly what Orban can. say in public. And he is supported by maybe 90% of the EU-wide population, a little bit everywhere. It's a scam. It's a desperate scam. And it's only for two years, Judge. It's for 2026, 2007. If the war continues, there is a strong possibility that the war might continue. In 2008, you have to do it all over again. And when you look at Umarov, the Ukrainian negotiator said, One of the things that he said is if the aggression continues, so they are already positioning themselves to ask for more money in two years. It's completely, the whole thing is completely absurd.

And obviously, only the European Commission can come up with something like that, because La Signora Ursula, she is completely protected from anything. This is, unfortunately, one of my Germans, sent me a detailed dossier on both families, on Ursula von der Leyen's family, and on her husband's family. Actually, the von der Leyen family is husband's family. And it's, wow, it's dodgy to say the least, and with lots of Nazi tones behind it. But these people are protected. This is Europe's old money, and it's totally protected in Brussels. So, nothing, nothing can get to them.

And they force European leaders to act like that. At the last minute though, it was Macron who pulled out of it. Obviously, the two Germans were totally for it. von der Leyen and Merce were totally for it. Macrone at the last minute

said, no, I cannot do this. Because obviously somebody at his own ministry of finance in Versi said, no, if you do this, we're cooked. What will become of the EU? It's going to fracture irretrievably, but this is going to be a long, painful process.

It will be played in front of all of us and in front of everybody in living in the European Union nation states. Some nation states are already deep into leaving the EU. This is something that could happen within the next. let's say, realistically, three to four to five years. And then there will be, you know, it's going to be a series of exits everywhere. And it will be parallel to the disintegration of NATO as well. So this combo, UNATO is faded to oblivion and to go to the dustbin of history,

I would say until the start of the next decade, practically for sure. Beppe Escobar, thank you very much, my dear friend. And the Merry Christmas to you, safe travel. What a joy it has been to work with you in 2025. You have certainly helped to drag us across the finish line of 100 million views, which we achieved last weekend. This is the second year in a row. And thank you very much for your professional collaboration and your personal friendship. year we'll meet together in Moscow. I don't know when. We will. Or in Napoli, Judge. Even

there you go. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. All the best. All the best of you in our audience. Thank you. Thank you. A great man. Another great man coming up at 11 o'clock, Professor Jeffrey Sachs at 1 o'clock, Aaron Matte, at 2 o'clock, Matt Ho. At 3 o'clock, Colonel Karen Kouakowsky, at 4 this afternoon, Max Blumenthal. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.