Judging Freedom - Post Russian Rebellion, Now What_ w_SCOTT RITTER

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you for watching! Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, June 29th, 2023. It's about 135 in the afternoon here on the East Coast of the United States. Scott Ritter joins us now. Scott, always a pleasure. Thank you very much. You were kind and gracious enough to come on a special Saturday edition of Judging Freedom almost a week ago now, last Saturday, when we did not know at the time what the outcome of the movement of Jenny Prokosian's Wagner forces toward Mexico would be. But you predicted that however it ended, President Putin would be intact and in charge and unharmed. That outcome, that prediction, of course, turned out to be 100% correct. What is your take on what happened? Was it a coup? Was the CIA involved? Why did Prokofiev

turn around? Was it just an effort to isolate the Russian defense minister? What do you think was behind all this, Scott? Let's just start with definitions. The first thing we have to acknowledge is it was an armed insurrection. By definition, Wagner, under arms, revolted against government rule. Now, Prokofiev will say, I did it because I'm anti-Shoigu, anti-Gerasimov. I mean, just imagine if an American mercenary group, let's say Blackwater, decided, what the heck? We're going to get inside our U.S. government-funded helicopters and vehicles, and we're going to drive to Washington, D.C. to kick out Lloyd Austin and General Miley. We're not going to touch Joe Biden, just Austin and Miley. Would people call that a coup? Of course it's a coup.

Because by saying that you want to get rid of Lloyd Austin and General Miley, you're saying that Joe Biden has no authority, that you are a higher authority than the elected president. Let's just stop the nonsense of pretending this wasn't a coup. It was a coup. It was designed to topple the nonsense of pretending this wasn't a coup. It was a coup. It was designed to topple the government of Vladimir Putin. Now, the question is why? Well, we have some insight now.

We know that Prokofiev, again, he's a businessman. He's not a military leader. People need to understand that. Wagner is a private military company. It's not an army. It has no sovereign status. It exists because the Russian government funded it to the tune of $940 million in an annual contract that was signed on 1 May 2022 due to expire 1 May 2023. And because Prokhorin had difficulties with Shoigu and because of the legal aspects

of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republic becoming Russia, meaning that private military contract can't exist, the contract wasn't going to be extended. Wagner, if it was going to continue to exist, had to sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense and become a volunteer unit under the auspices of the Ministry of Defense.

This means that Shoigu would lose all that money. He didn't want to lose that money. He didn't want that contract. This was always about money. This was about greed. Rogozhin's greed put the security back down, to say, no, that Wagner could exist under some sort of special extra legal status. Wasn't going to happen. Putin wasn't going to bend. And had Prokhorin kept going, he was going to die. Putin had put 2,500 special forces in

Serpukhov. The lead elements of Wagner had had run into them reported back that these guys are serious they're going to kill us all uh rostov had been surrounded by 10 000 chechen ahmad special forces who were under orders to go in and kill pregogion and uh kill or capture all of the wagner people had pregogion not given up so pregogion gave up because he was going to die straight up in order to prevent bloodshed putin and Lukashenko, the president of Belarus, agreed that Prokosian and those who committed treason, and Putin is quite clear about what happened, they get to go to Belarus. The other people, the 17,000 that stayed in their camps, they get to sign contracts with the Ministry of Defense or go home.

Was there Western intelligence support? We know that Prokosian was in contact with Ukrainian intelligence, which means that he was indirectly at least in contact with Western intelligence support. We know that Prokosian was in contact with Ukrainian intelligence, which means that he was indirectly at least in contact with Western intelligence because Ukrainian intelligence doesn't operate without Western intelligence. Was he operating on behalf of the U.S. intelligence and British intelligence services? That we don't know yet. But what we do know is that the U.S. and British intelligence services knew that Prokosian was going to make a move on Moscow. It was briefed to the Gang of Eight, the top eight congressional leaders by the CIA days before Progozhin made a move. The British prime minister was briefed as well. And we now know that the U.S. government expected this to be bloody, meaning that they were hoping that this would become a civil war that could topple or at least damage Putin.

Whether they were behind it or just tacitly supporting it. Again, we don't know, but they did nothing to stop it, which is problematic because Russia is a nation with tactical nuclear weapons, with strategic nuclear weapons. And is it really sound policy to have a rogue mercenary element going in to threaten the Russian government when they're at a war for their existential survival? This was a very dangerous move on the west what should have happened is a phone call should have been made to putin warning him of this so that this could have been nipped in the bud but we didn't do that because we wanted this to happen we hoped it became violent and as we now know tony blinken has admitted it we hope this because we thought it would give opportunities for the ukrainian forces uh in the field but it's

all failed it's all collapsed. It's all collapsed. This was about greed, nothing more. And Vladimir Putin has emerged stronger. I won't say that this is ideal. You know, it's sort of a banana republic move to have a mercenary force make a move on Moscow, just like January 6th was embarrassing for the United States. This was an embarrassment for Vladimir Putin. He's not weaker because of it, but this was not a good look for Russia. Beyond poor judgment by the Americans, reckless by the American intelligence community, not to warn. I mean, is it fair to conclude that the American intel community knew about this, that the Russian intelligence community knew about it? Look, we have hints of this. Putin and other commanders have indicated that they were in contact with Wagner commanders prior to Prokofiev making his move, urging them to remain calm.

They knew that Prokofiev was upset. They knew that he was off kilter. What they were trying to do is come to 1 July and just get Wagner done. Get it transferred over to the military. Right. But you had a very testy situation where you had this private army that had rallied around this individual, Prokofiev, who created a cult of personality. And had you made a precipitous move against him to remove him, there could have been violence. And the last thing Vladimir Putin wanted was a Russian civil war, Russians killing Russians. He didn't want that to happen. Here's Yevgeny Prigozhin's first and only statement from Belarus.

So this is, I think, Sunday night. It's audio only, so I'm going to read the subtitles. We started our march because of injustice. On the way, we did not kill a single soldier on the ground. In a day, we were only 200 kilometers away from Moscow. We entered and completely took control of the city of Rostov. The civilians were glad to see us. We showed a master class on how 24 February 22 should have looked. We did not have the goal of overthrowing the existing regime

and the legally elected government, which was said many times. We turned around in order not to shed the blood of Russian soldiers. Hogwash? Every word is a lie. Every word is a lie. We know that this was about greed. We know this is about greed. It's not speculation.

It's just straight up. This man was afraid of losing not only his billion dollar contract for Wagner, but he also had a billion dollar contract to provide food for the Russian military that was concurrent with this. It was also canceled. Two billion dollars in contracts. This man was angry. It was a coup. I'm sorry, Yevgeny Prigozhin. If you went to court, you'd be found guilty in any court in the world. It was a coup. You're a traitor. End of story. Is he long for the world, Scott?

Well, let me put it this way. Putin has promised that he will not be prosecuted for the insurrection. However, the Russian government has made it clear that they are investigating Prigozhin's finances. Remember Al Capone, the gangster, the murdered people and all that that stuff he went to jail because of tax evasion right and emotion's going to go down because of corruption so he's he's going down no matter what and then the other thing is um if if they find out that he was colluding with the ukrainians he didn't get a pardon with that either and that's absolute treason he's a traitor and he may not get a chance to go to court for that one because Putin has a way of making traitors fall off of balconies or get sick.

I'm not condoning that at all. I'm just saying that when you betray Russia at the highest levels, history tends to show that you pay the highest price. And Prokofiev has betrayed Russia at the highest level. This master class thing i have to address it what a joke is his troops were were strung out on a road sprung out on a road had the russians decided at any time they would have slaughtered them they weren't in a combat formation uh they weren't in a in a v with tanks they were on a highway in trucks they would have

been slaughtered in an instant if Russians decided to do that. He didn't stop because he wanted to spare Russian blood. The Russians were saying, bring it on, dude. We're going to kill you now. He left because he knew he had lost. And he lies when he said not a single blood. He killed 12 Russian airmen, shot unarmed helicopters out of the sky. And when the Russians dropped the bomb,

sending the signal, we're going to do this to your entire column. Two Wagner guys died. Three were wounded. So the concept that this was bloodless is absurd. And he's lucky that they're not prosecuting because he has 14 lives on his hands. That's 14 murders that he committed because this can't be self-defense.

He had no legal authority to do what he did. None whatsoever. This is murder. He would have been charged with murder. Here is our friend, Jack Devine, arguing that President Putin has ensured his own demise. I'll be anxious to hear what you have to say about this, Scott. This is yesterday. Back in March of 22, the title of the op-ed was Putin ensured his own demise, right? And I stand by that. The albatross around his neck is Ukraine. He's not going to be able to dig himself out of the hole given the situation in the Ukraine.

What happened was, and I've been saying all along that I think he's on a path to his own exit. This was a bit unanticipated that it would happen, that the military cracks would show this early should be extremely upsetting to him. It shows tremendous weakness and not control. And his whole pathway in life was he was the man in charge. He was the boss. And now he doesn't look that way at all. And I personally believe that within the infrastructure there, the military, the intelligence services, the elites, and the political and economic area look at him quite differently.

And there are more people to be willing to challenge. Here's my bottom line. I felt the fuse has been burning since the day he went across the border at a slow rate. I believe that rate picked up quite a bit. But I'm not saying he's going to be out of the term. But when the situation is clear in Ukraine, not that he's failing, that he failed. The moment it's now he's clear he failed, that's when his real troubles begin. And it'll be just a matter of months from then before he's replaced. Tony Blinken or Victoria Nuland? I'm not sure which. I mean, we can all do a stick to Jack. Did he watch TV last night? Vladimir Putin flew to Derbent, I believe it's in Dagestan, a Muslim

republic within the Russian Federation. He could have been the resurrection of Elvis Presley. He was that popular. Crowds screaming, women swooning, girls shouting out. When he left the security and he walked into the crowd to shake hands and say hello, it was the most adoring crowd in the world. There's videos all over the Internet today of people who are crying because they didn't get a chance to see Putin, that they wanted to see Putin. He's the most popular president Russia's ever had. And he's more popular now because he stood up. He was strong. He was firm.

There was no back down in him. With all due respect to Jack, this wasn't a crack in the military. In fact, because of the treason of of Prigozhin, we now know that everybody in Russia stands by Putin. Not a single defection. No one said, hey, I'm with Prigozhin. Hey, I'm you know, Putin's bad. Everybody went. We're with you, boss. What do you need? Russia solidified again. it's an embarrassing moment. I'm not, it's banana republic-like to have a private army driving on Moscow like this. But the notion that Putin is somehow weakened by this is absurd.

Jack needs to do a better job of thinking. Two, Jack, look at the battlefield right now. You know, Progozhin, your man, the guy everybody's saying, hey, when in the battle of Bakhmut, you know, he says I was a masterclass. I'm the guy that Russia should be turning to to win this war. Bakhmut killed 75,000 Ukrainians. Good job, Wagner. You lost 30,000 Russians doing it. That's a little bit more than a 2.2 to 1 kill ratio. Right now, on the counteroffensive that Shoigu and gurasimov have designed the russian defenses russia's killing ukrainians at ten to one thirteen thousand dead ukrainians one thousand three hundred dead russians that's a lot of dead russians i'm not minimizing it but which which ratio do you want the 2.2 to 1 ratio that uh progosian gives you or the 10 to 1 ratio that show you and grass

mob give you right now russia has a winning formula. They're destroying the Ukrainian military. This war is going to be over. I don't know what Jack Devine's smoking, but let me know because I may start taking it if it makes you feel that good. Wow. At the risk of raising your blood pressure even more, Scott, here's Jack again yesterday yesterday saying Putin is weaker at home and in the battlefield after and because of this episode with Prokofiev. Take a listen. Putin is much weaker at home, not a little bit, much weaker, and he's much weaker on the battlefield. His lead group has just crumbled. How is he going to expand

it? I find it mind bogboggling. There's a group in the United States that somehow wants to hang on that Putin somehow is this powerful guy and he's going to overrun Europe and it's all total nonsense. He doesn't have the wherewithal. If Putin is so weak at home and so destabilized politically and militarily, why the hell are we bothering to fight him? The worst thing around his neck is Ukraine. You want to take it away? Life might get better for him. I'm saying stay the course.

You've got him on the ropes. Do not back off. Keep putting everything you can. Keep the pressure. This is a bad guy. He's got to go. He's unstable for the world. Now we have some insight into why American policy has been so bad over the years, because that's the best analysis the CIA can offer up.

It's just as bad as it gets. I mean, is it likely that what Jack just said is what the CIA, I think it is because he, even though he doesn't work there anymore, he's, you know, still in their, their mental orbit. Is it likely that that's what the CIA thinks? That's what they want us to think. I think the senior manager of the CIA is convinced that if they continue to pressure Putin, Putin will crack. The junior analysts, here's the problem. Where are they recruiting their analysts? Because every institution in America today, Georgetown,

Stanford, Harvard, Yale, it cranks out, traditionally cranks out the young elite that gravitate to the CIA. You don't have genuine Russian area studies anymore. You have, we hate Russia studies. When you graduate from these programs, you have a degree in hating Russia, despising Russia. So they don't know Russia. I learned more in 26 days in Russia last month than anybody in the CIA knows about Russia today. And that's an absolute statement of fact. I will take anybody in the CA on in a head-on debate about Russia. And I know more about Russia, about the Russian people, about the Russian government. Can you address Jack's claims? And they're just claims. It's baseless, but he claims that Putin is weaker at home and in the battlefield from and after the Progozhin episode. Well, I'll tell you what, let's have Joe Biden leave his security detail and walk

through Flint, Michigan. Let's have Emmanuel Macron right now walk through Nantes in France, where there's riots taking place. And let's have Vladimir Putin walk through Derbent. And which one's going to be greeted with a crowd of admiring people and which ones are going to be chased out of town? Putin ain't going to be chased out of town. He's loved by the Russians. They rally around him. When Putin goes, it's going to be because Putin got too old or he decides it's time to retire. But Putin will never be chased out of office. Joe Biden, his popularity is very low. Macron, not very loved. Jack Devine needs to actually stop talking about Russia because he literally knows nothing about Russia. You know, the Russian military is winning.

What part of NATO is collapsing? NATO can't afford to continue. Wait until 11 July when NATO gets together. Look at the panic in their eyes because none of their plans have come to fruition. Nothing. They don't know what to do. Whereas Putin and his generals are like, keep going, boys. Straight ahead.

All right. Finally, a tape that I think you will like. This is President Putin addressing the Russian people on Monday night, so three days ago. The mutineers betrayed their country, their people, and they betrayed those who they dragged into this affair, who they pushed to shoot at their comrades. It is this fratricide that the new Nazis in Kiev and their Western masters wanted to see, and the various traitors as well. They wanted to see Russian soldiers kill each other. They wanted to see Russian servicemen and civilians die,

and ultimately to see Russia defeated. And the Russian society split apart. So, since the very beginning, I gave orders to prevent bloodshed to see Russia defeated and the Russian society split apart. So, since the very beginning, I gave orders to prevent bloodshed, and we needed time for that. Including to give an opportunity to those who realize they've made a mistake, to rethink their decision, to realize that they're putting society at risk and that this is leading to destructive consequences as a result of this reckless affair. I thank the soldiers and commanders of the Wagner Group

who made the only correct decision and refused to engage in fratricide and who stopped at the last line. Who refused to engage in fratricide and who stopped at the last line. Who refused to engage in fratricide and who stopped at the last line. You know, Americans, some Americans watching that will say that just shows that Putin's weak.

When challenged by Wagner, he didn't destroy them. He gave them a chance. Every Russian listening out saying, thank you, Mr. President. You avoided a civil war. Thank you for not allowing fratricide to take place in my backyard. Remember, the soil that they were going to fight on is Russian soil

populated by Russian people. The president of Russia said, I care more about the people than looking good, that I will resolve this thing peacefully. I'll give peace a chance. That's why he's loved in Russia. The other thing is I've been watching this guy speak for years. I can't say that I'm an expert on Putin, but I have been watching him speak for years and I sort of know his facial expressions. That was an angry man. That was a furious man. And I will tell you what, you don't want to be in a room with Vladimir Putin, I believe, when he gives you the look he was giving the camera. That's not the kind of look you want to receive from him.

So he is determined. And again, I would say this for people like Jack Devine and others who think that somehow this is a president who's weak, who can be pushed. You can push Putin, but there's no backup in him anymore. And that's just the thing. I wish more people would take the time to study Vladimir Putin, not to love Vladimir Putin. That's wrong. That means you're emotional about it. Study Vladimir Putin as a professional. That's what the CIA used to do. Study people, know them, and then give accurate assessments about what you think they're thinking, what you think they're going to do. I will tell you that I think what he's thinking is Russia can never allow this to happen again. You know, we will be strong in the face of adversity. And what is he going to do?

He's going to stay the course, and Russia's going to win in Ukraine. Jack, sorry to give you the bad news, but Russia's winning, and they're going to win. Scott Ritter, always a pleasure, my dear man. And by the way, thank you so much for being with us. And by the way, a lot of positive comments about your powder blue blazer. I'm in Miami right now. So I decided that if I was going to walk the streets, I had to have that Miami Vice look going. Thank you, my man.

See you soon. All the best. Thank you. More as we get it. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Редактор субтитров А.Семкин Корректор А.Егорова