Judging Freedom - Prof. Glenn Diesen : Are Ukraine Troops Retreating?

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

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Today is Wednesday, October 8th, 2025, Professor Glenn Deeson from the University of Southeastern Norway, one of our regular guests joins this now, Professor Gies, and a pleasure, my dear friend. I want to talk to you about the state of things in Ukraine. But before we get to Russia and Ukraine, this Trump, Netanyahu, Witkoff, Kushner, so-called peace deal, is this just sort of a guise for Palestinian capitulation? Well, it appears so. It doesn't feel much like a peace agreement anyways.

It's more take it or leave it. And in other words, capitulate or we will destroy you. And that's more or less what has been communicated. The problem is that the deal is, as you said, it's capitulation. That is, they have to disarm. They have to give up the tunnels. So effectively everything they need to be able to defend themselves. So Israel is having a very hard time to defeat Hamas and what they're asking for now is just to surrender.

The problem is if there's an ultimatum between capitulation or being destroyed, once they capitulate, it's going to be much easier to destroy them. So it's all based on the, you know, if you would accept such a deal, which doesn't even have anything at the end. There will be no Palestinian state. all they have to look forward to is living under what looks like a colonial rule that is an administrative system which might be led by Tony Blair and Donald Trump. I mean, it's quite absurd. So it's no, it's a terrible, terrible deal. Does Netanyahu have any intention whatsoever of removing his troops from Gaza and stopping

the war? No, well, after Hamas has disarmed, giving up their tunnels, handed over the hostages, actually I do think that they might be willing to give up the hostages. They're a bit of a leverage in this

negotiations, but on that area, I think something can be done. But nonetheless, after this, yeah, there's a plan for Israel to gradually remove itself from Gaza's territory, unless at some point Israel decides not to.

So it's not, no, it doesn't put any pressure on Israel. I mean, we can ask ourselves if Israel tomorrow then would say, well, we decided to stay there for security reasons. We haven't properly reeducated the Palestinian authorities yet anyways. The governance over them can't be completed yet. who's going to pose Israel Is it going to be Mr. Trump

Or whoever succeeds him? No, I think I think Yeah, it doesn't really come with anything For the Palestinians at all. It seems as if it's Some narrative building Worked into this

Why would Hamas Give up the only leverage it has The hostages and the only means it has to repel the occupiers, which is its weapons. No, they wouldn't. And I think this is why it's predictable that this deal won't go through.

But Netanyahu, he kind of gave away part of the game. He was making the point that, well, now the world can see that it's Hamas that opposes peace. It's not us. We are for this peace, you know, after making some changes to it, of course. But again, it's a bit like we see in Ukraine, that is, when they're suggesting unconditional

ceasefires, which means just freezing the frontline and having NATO rearmed Ukraine, they know this isn't going to work. When you're having proposed Zelensky-Putin deal, when none of the work or agreements have come in place, they know this isn't going to happen. But it's a way of managing the narrative. And I think to this extent, it can turn out to be quite successful because they have to shift it now, that it's Hamas that doesn't want any peace and Israel is making every effort. Are the European countries preparing for war with Russia? Well, it's hard to say.

It sounds like madness. There is no way of winning this. First of all, whatever armed forces are sent into Ukraine or directly against Russia, would be destroyed and but even if we would win what exactly would such a victory look like how are we going to defeat the world's largest nuclear power in defeat russia would see its existence being threatened and this is definitely the main trigger of using its nuclear forces so there's no there's no pathway towards this can be successful so i would think no given that it's so crazy on the other hand This is what they're talking about.

You're having the Chancellor of Germany talking about building a big army to fight the Russians. We're talking about seizing Russian ships, which a French, well, thought they did, which is an act of war. We're talking now openly about deep strikes inside Russia, which we're participating in, which is an act of war. You're having the former Ben Wallace in Britain arguing that we have to suffocate Crimea, make it unlivable. and they're not hiding anymore that they're also engaged in their fights against Russia. So I think we're already at war with Russia.

We crossed that line from proxy war to direct war. It's very interesting. Is MI6 in Crimea trying to foment chaos? I'm not sure if they're in Crimea, but they're definitely in

other Ukrainian cities, at least in Kiev and in Odessa. So So again, the Ukrainians, they're having manpower problems. They need assistance with many of the weapon systems. Right. It's hardly a secret anymore that there are NATO troops already there fighting against Russia.

But, of course, I'm not wearing their uniforms. Take a listen to this crazy lady. You'll know her. Cut number 13, Chris. One incident may be a mistake. Two incidents and coincidence. But three, five, ten. This is a deliberate and targeted grey zone campaign against Europe.

And Europe must respond. Russia wants to sow division. It was Italian pilots under NATO's air policing mission that escorted Russian jets from Estonian skies. Ukrainian experts are sharing frontline expertise to help member states counter-drawn incursions. But we must not only react, we must deter. Now, the work has already begun.

We are seeing the biggest surge of defense spending in the history of the Union. Now we need a precise pan-European plan coordinated very closely with NATO on how to move forward. Tackling Russia's hybrid war is not only about traditional defense. It is about software for drones, it is about spare parts for pipelines, it is about rapid cyber response teams, and it is about public information campaigns to spread awareness.

We either can shy away and watch Russian threats escalate or we meet them with unity, deterrence, and resolve. She wants to be the commander-in-chief of a European military, which, as we know, doesn't exist. Yeah, well, never let a good crisis go to waste. This is a good way of centralizing power in the European Union. This is also one of the reasons why von der Leyen is also clashing a bit with Chancellor Merce of Germany at the moment as well, because the Germans want to take a more leading role in Europe, which then undermines the EU's role in wanting to do. do this so so it has many levels to it but but a lot of this i mean is already proven to be fake news

that is all of this hybrid wars this you know we have a hundred incidents now all popping up the problem is if they're all fake it amounts to nothing and we already learned that the russian scrambling of the underlains flight that this was no scrambling at all it was fake news it's been confirmed as such the attacks on poland with drones as we say The Polish Prime Minister confirmed there was no warheads on any drones that entered, and the Russians claimed that they didn't even send them into Poland, that this was likely a false flag by the Ukrainians. I mean, they could be true, could not be, but at least it's been confirmed.

There was no attack, so why try to hype it as an attack? And the Estonian jets, I think was 12 minutes inside Estonian airspace, this is also very doubtful. You could fly across the country in this time. And most likely it's them reinvented. the borderlines. Again, I would like to see evidence of this. Maybe it's true, but given all the falsehoods, I'm doubtful. And last as well, all these drones, the EU keeps making this comments that, oh, we have now drones from Denmark to Norway and Germany and disrupting, you know,

and then suddenly they make a shift. We have to stand up to Russia. But why Russia? They made many arrests. They arrested Germans or Norwegians, Chinese tourists, not a single Russian. So where does this come from. It's just this non-ending warmongering. Everything has to be built into this idea that we have to go fight the Russians. Here's President Putin talking in a rather almost humorous way about these drones. You were there. You asked him some questions. I'm going to play in a minute the question you asked. But here he is at a conference that you attended talking about drones. It's number three, Chris. Mr. Putin, why are you sending so many drones to Denmark?

Down to that. I promise I won't do it anymore, not to Denmark, not to France, not to Copenhagen. Where else are they flying? People are entertaining themselves, and they used to entertain themselves about the U.E, about the unidentified flying vehicles, about the UVFs. And they have a lot of weirdos. We can launch them every day. they can try and catch them but if we speak seriously we don't have UAVs that

could reach Lisbon we have long-range ones but there are no targets there that's what matters but that is another way of stirring out the situation in order to respond to the orders Washington and to raise their expenditures on defense. I know you speak Russian, so maybe you weren't listening to the English translation, but did he actually use the Russian word for weirdos? I didn't catch that, actually. I don't know the Russian word for weirdo.

So we actually talked about that afterwards, because I have to go through the transcript to see what actual word he used. but oh well it was a yeah it's a very it's interesting though that we would use this terms because usually even now that we're almost in direct war it tends to use terminology which is kind of benign suggesting our partners in europe but this is weirdos i haven't heard this language before either also this very mockery is also yeah and you can't blame him for the mockery because the concept of russian drones over poland has been debunked by everybody, including the president of Poland?

And how can Mrs. von der Leyen take that stuff seriously and use it as a pretext for war? Well, I think when there's no evidence presented, on the contrary, there's a lot of evidence suggesting that this is not true. One should be skeptical. And when also you add into the mix that this is used so actively to try to build a EU army, centralize power further, and also using it to try to pull the United States,

states deeper into this war, you can't help but to feel that this has perhaps a different agenda. And I think that agenda is that Ukraine is now, Ukraine and NATO is losing an increasing rate on the front lines. I mean, across the front lines now, they are breaking. The Ukrainians can't plug the holes anymore. It's a huge manpower problem. And the Russians take advantage. And when the Russians can take advantage of holes in the defense, they can begin to surround. large portion of the troops you see communication breaks down troops have to flee in which they become targeted as they flee you have more soldiers surrendering so as things begin to fall apart it goes slow until it suddenly goes very fast

there's a bit of panic now and that's why you have this I think this is why you have the stories again I could be wrong if they presented some evidence and this was credible I would change my mind but so far there's so many of these stories have been proven to be fake. And of course, I come with some skepticism as well. After years of Russia gate, the Biden laptop, the bounties on American soldiers in Afghanistan, all the stories which were fake, proven to be fake, but they never did anything to dent the narrative of this hybrid war from Russia.

Before I ask you some questions about Ukraine and Russia, I want to show the audience that you were chosen to question the president of Russia. I mean, this is something that people in our line of work drool over the opportunity for it. It's a great question. He smiled at you, and he gave a very profound answer. So Chris cut number one. Finland and Sweden, having joined NATO, it changes the geopolitical landscape of Europe. And I was wondering how Russia interprets this. No issues with Sweden or Finland. No issues whatsoever. But you see, apparently Russia is conducting aggressive politics, attacked Ukraine. How about the fact that a coup d'etat took place in Ukraine?

Did you not take that into account? What about since 2014 they've been killing children in Donbass? Is that okay? The tanks and airplanes were used against the civilians in those cities. Is that acceptable? They just didn't want to analyze that. All they wanted to do was joined the clique that wants to profit of Russia's sake. Now the border between Russia and NATO is growing bigger. We had no armed forces in that part of Russia. But now there will be. Now we have to create separate military. areas. Finland said we will not allow

the emergence of of arms that is dangerous to Russia, especially nuclear arms. Who the hell knows? Who exactly will ask the Finns for their opinion when making those decisions? I don't want to offend anyone, but I know how those decisions

is made. Well, I mean, I was deeply moved by the fact that they chose you to ask this question. It was a great question and a fascinating answer. And this is obviously a concern to him. The Russia-NATO border was just increased by 800 miles. That's enormous. Now he has to put troops along those 800 miles, the matter what Finland thinks. Yeah. Well, for me, it was also a specific interest to my part of the world because throughout the Cold War, Scandinavia was known as a region of peace

because Finland and Sweden were not part of NATO and in Norway we were kind of NATO light. We didn't accept foreign troops on our soil and we limited our activity in the high north. Now the problem is now that the Swedes and the Finns have joined and also a US military base are opening up across the region that we're becoming a massive front. front line against Russia, so becoming a Ukraine of the North as it is. And as you said, it's very problematic for Finland. I mean, they were the greatest success story for neutrality. They had all these problems and conflicts with Russia because, again, the winter war, for example,

the Russians were worried that the Germans would use them as a flank against Russia, much like the war that Finland would be used by NATO. But once the Finns, after World War II, accepted neutrality, that was it. no more conflict ever again. And now they joined NATO and as Putin said, it didn't happen in a vacuum this war in Ukraine. But now, of course, the Russians are opening this Leningrad military district to deal with the new security threat against Finland. And same with Sweden. I mean, the Russians defeated Sweden when it was a great power in 1721 in the Great Northern War. And since then, they haven't really had any conflicts. It's been 300 years.

And now they were also joined NATO. And you can't help but to think that this is going to change the geopolitical reality. It's not just in the high north, but also in the Baltic Sea. As we're now starting in Europe to talk about the Baltic Sea as a NATO lake. And we're talking about seizing Russian ships. We're talking on possible blockades on St. Petersburg. We have General Donahue, the U.S. General, talking about invading Kaliningrad, on the, which is an enclave, Russian enclave, on the Baltic coast.

So it's really getting very much out of control. So it's not just limited to Scandinavia. This is something that could have very wide consequences. So yes, I was very interested to hear how he reads the situation. Well, you asked a very, very timely question, and I'm sure he appreciated it. In the same week, this is the week after your situation. session at which President Putin spoke. President Putin said we have reports of Ukrainian troops fleeing the front line and literally running back in the direction of Kiev.

And we have Andre Kartopalov, who's the chair of the Duma's Defense Committee, and is himself a former Deputy Minister, Russian Deputy Minister of Defense, saying today, Russia will know if Tomahawks arrive and we will destroy them before they're even set up. Where do things stand with Ukraine right now? Well, things are going from bad to worse very, very quickly. And if you look in key strategic hubs, be it Kopjansk or Pokrovsk, these cities are now, especially Kopjansk, encircled there, which means that, They created a cauldron where the Ukrainians tried to hold on to it,

but that requires them to send more troops in, which, again, the supply lines aren't secured, which means that they're taking heavy casualties. And yeah, this cities will fall now into Russia's hands. And with this, they will be able to concentrate a lot more troops near the front, and they will have greater advantage. And you see that the key defensive lines, which are set up, all the way since 2014. They're now falling apart. And so it's happening faster and faster now.

And the fact that they're also fleeing the front lines faster. I mean, this is also not that surprising. And again, this is why me and many others have warned, why it's necessary to start a negotiation, serious negotiations with the Russians now. Because the end of a war, this is usually when the casualties really begin to spike. This is when the front lines collapse. This is when communication breaks down.

This is when troops are encircled. When they have to flee, they're captured. It's going to be very gruesome weeks ahead. So it's quite frustrating that there's no real negotiations. But I do think that the problem with negotiations is this is a problem which has been building for the past 30 years, which is the absence of a proper European security architecture. That is, we just revived the block politics of the Cold War. Indeed, last year at Valdei Discussion Club, I also had a question for Putin then.

I asked him then as well whether or not he would see any of the experiences they had in Eurasia. That is the multipolar system of organizing or harmonizing relations between China, India, Russia, if there would be possible to pursue a similar format for Europe. because this Ukraine war has surprisingly little to do with Ukraine. It's more about the failure to establish a mutually acceptable European security architecture after the Cold War. As our friend and your colleague, Professor Mearsheimer, would say a rejection of realism, a rejection of the bona fide, legitimate security needs of countries.

Professor Deeson, thank you very much. I was so impressed with the question that you asked, President Putin, I didn't even know that you had that opportunity until today. We'll look for more clips of you questioning the Russian president to run the next time you're on with us. But thank you so much. We'll look forward to seeing you again soon. Thank you. Sure.

And coming up at 3 o'clock this afternoon, the great Phil Geraldty, Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.