Judging Freedom - Prof. Jeffrey Sachs: Can the US Say NO to Israel?

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

Prof. Jeffrey Sachs: Can the US Say NO to Israel?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, October 14th, 2024. Professor Jeffrey Sachs is with us in just a moment on, can the United States ever say no to Israel? But first this. A divisive presidential election is upon us and the winner is gold. Let me tell you what I mean. Since 2016, our national debt has grown a staggering 70% and gold has increased by 60%. Do you own gold? I do. I bought my gold in February,

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I know it's the wee hours where you are, and we deeply appreciate it. We have a lot of questions. Thank you. I have a lot of questions to ask you about events in the past three or four days in Israel, including the killing of IDF soldiers and the release of the American Jeremy Lafredo from IDF detention, but I want to read you the latest from Israeli Channel 14. This is just about an hour and a half old. I'm reading directly from what the presenter said. Israel's retaliation against Iran will not be moderate. Instead, it will be significant and will likely

cause Iran to respond. Israel will need to prepare for a significant exchange of blows that might drag the Americans in, which Iran certainly would not want. Israel will attack Iran before the U.S. elections. Netanyahu approved the attack plans on Iran, and the attack is expected soon. What do you think? Well, we don't know whether such news stories are somebody's provocations or leaks, so I don't think we can take this as definitive. but what's clear is that Netanyahu is trying to draw the U.S. into a war with Iran. If such a war occurs, it would be devastating, first to Israel, by the way, but but possibly escalating to world war. Iran has Russia as an ally. It would open a second front of the U.S. war with Russia, in addition to Ukraine. Netanyahu has been trying for this for 30 years. He has been clear about it, that the United States should go to war with Iran for Israel's sake.

The United States has done just about everything that Netanyahu has asked over the last 30 years. I think history will record that Netanyahu has been one of the most destructive people in modern history, one of the most reckless, one of the most shameless and cynical, one of the most murderous. And I think history will record that the United States has done his bidding. It is becoming more and more clear as more and more analysts look back on the events of the last 24 years that the war in Iraq was at Netanyahu's bidding. The war in Syria, which unfortunately most Americans don't understand, but was a CIA operation to overthrow the Syrian government, was at Netanyahu's bidding. The U.S. has basically followed Netanyahu's lead for these 30 years. Netanyahu's idea from his perspective is that to make Israel safe, since Israel faces threats from Hamas or Hezbollah or others, that the only way

to make Israel safe is not defeating those particular belligerent forces, but defeating the countries that back those forces. So Netanyahu's idea is that he, by manipulating the United States, will make the Middle East safe for Israel. This is such a wild and crazy and reckless idea that you couldn't believe that anyone would take it seriously, except the United States has. We have gone to war repeatedly for no reason of American security, but for reason of Netanyahu's interpretation of Israel's security. This is unbelievable. And I think history will find this also a shocking loss of American foreign policy autonomy. Why did we go to war with Iraq? Why did we go to war with Syria? Why did Obama decide to overthrow Assad and so forth? These were decisions that not only did not bolster American security, they gravely weakened American security. They

isolated America. They ran up trillions of dollars of debt. And Netanyahu, I think we will find more and more, has been at the center of all of this. His grand prize has been Iran. Now he has a president who is at least politically senescent, if not physically, so we don't know. But he thinks that this is his moment of maximum leverage. And he personally seems determined to start a full-fledged war with Iran. It's pretty clear that the United States counterparts are trying to avoid that, but in the typically weak and even pathetic way, please don't do that. We don't want you to do that and so forth. And Netanyahu knows before the election, even after the election, Biden is unlikely to take any serious opposition. So this is a dramatic moment. I'm just coming back from a short visit in the Middle East, and I heard from very, very, very senior people.

So senior, I will not name them, but very senior people who thought that the next days could be decisive for the world, that Netanyahu is out of control and they wondered whether the United States would attempt to control him. Do you foresee Netanyahu using nuclear weapons against Iran? And do you foresee Iran using nuclear weapons such as they have them against Israel? Look, I don't foresee that as anybody's intention right now, but I think there's an assumption that Netanyahu has that may well be wrong. And the assumption is that if the United States joins this war that he wants, that Iran will be defeated. rather wild assumption and based on no reliable evidence that I know of. What I think we have learned in recent weeks, and again, I'm not your top military analyst,

you've got many of them, but what I am told and what I believe we have learned is that Iran has very, very considerable ballistic missile capabilities, including hypersonic missiles that cannot be taken down by anti-missile defenses. Iran has the potential to strike at core population centers, to strike at strategic infrastructure. This is my bet based on what I'm reading and hearing, what I'm hearing in discussions. If so, if that's true, and I think there's a reasonable chance of it because many knowledgeable people make this assertion, Israel is getting itself into something that is horrifying, actually. This will result in the deaths of so many innocents. Is there no force in Israel, the IDF, the Mossad, that can stop Netanyahu from this wanton killing of innocent human beings? I think that Netanyahu probably can get his cabinet to do what he wants.

The public is absolutely terrified right now, but terrified of Iran, terrified of everything. And in such a psychological state, a leader can lead a country to disaster. It's one of the most common things in history, in fact. So my guess is that Netanyahu can get his way inside Israel. The one that can stop it and the one that should stop it, of course, is the United States. Netanyahu is not talking about Israel going to war with Iran. He's talking about the United States going to war with Iran. That's a different thing. This is completely against American interests, against American security interests. It's again a question of whether the United States military is basically at the behest

of what I think is a mad Israeli leader, utterly reckless. And by the way, when you look at Netanyahu's campaign for 30 years, this man's been wrong about everything. This man had said how going into Iraq, he told the American people in 2002, he wrote about it repeatedly, going into Iraq will create security for the United States and for the region. It will transform the region. These regime changes that he's wanted, the war with Syria, everything Netanyahu has said has been wrong. So this is not a reliable counterpart. This is not someone we should trust. This is someone who has no business being where he is, period. And for the United States to follow him would be almost inexplicable, except for the extraordinary weakness of this administration. But I would say,

past administrations have made complete disasters. They followed him into Iraq. They followed his plan of regime change operations throughout the Middle East. He got us into this to a very large extent. You could say, and I did say 20 years ago when the Iraq war was being debated, that it was absolutely wrong, reckless, based on lies, that it would fail. When the Syrian operation by Obama and Hillary Clinton was hatched in 2011. I said that it would be a disaster. But you could say somebody might have learned something along the way. Why are we dealing with this guy at all? Why are we letting him destroy Gaza, kill tens of thousands, commit acts of genocide, invade Lebanon, and now threaten to provoke a full war that he desires with Iran. Why are we letting him do this at all?

Where is American foreign policy? This is really the question. So under the law and under treaties to which the United States is a party, we can't attack another country unless obliged to do so under a treaty, which we don't have with Israel, or unless the other country poses an imminent threat to the United States. Iran poses no threat whatsoever to the United States. Iran poses no threat whatsoever to the United States. Quite the contrary, by the way. Iran has said repeatedly, I was in the room with the new Iranian president, where he said repeatedly, not only do they not threaten the United States. They are absolutely, completely desirous of reopening political relations, diplomatic relations, returning to the treaty of the JCPOA, the treaty with Iran that Obama had negotiated and then Trump broke and then Biden never restored. So the Iranians do not want war.

They've been on a diplomatic tour of recent days saying that to everybody around the world. So it's exactly the opposite. Netanyahu wants war. Iran does not want war. And where is the United States in this? by Israelis in the interests of, it's not even in the interests of Israel, but in the interests of Israel's absolutely failed prime minister. Well, you know what will happen. Congress is not going to come back from campaigning to debate this. The president will make a decision on the basis of what he believes Netanyahu wants and secondarily what he thinks will help Vice President Harris.

And innocent people, presumably not Americans, but who knows, will probably die because of this. Let me ask you about some specific events that have happened in Israel lately. Four members of the IDF were killed over the weekend. There they are. They're 19 years old each. 78 of their colleagues, including, we are told, a general, were severely injured when a Hezbollah missile attacked them deep into Israel, not at the Israel-Lebanese border. How does the Israeli public react to something like this? Is their reaction, well, why are we in this war? Or is their reaction, we have to ramp it up and get these people back?

Generally, and it's not unique to Israel, but when a country is under attack, generally, the public response is to escalate. Well, now we understand we have to invade deeper. It's worth mentioning, of course, as you know, and I think as people listening know, that Israel has been mass murdering people in the last couple of days in Gaza, in bombing throughout Lebanon, including villages in north Lebanon, including Beirut, including places closer to the border with Israel in southern Lebanon. The death toll is absolutely staggering. Israel is killing people in hospitals, people waiting for help. It's indiscriminate murder right now. And this is part of the reestablishing deterrence to show you'll kill anyone. This is how they think. But this is mass murder taking place. Hezbollah obviously has the capacity to strike at Israel and kill a lot of people. It's got tens of thousands of rockets and missiles yet to be fired. Netanyahu's basic calculation is not only cruel, it's just completely wrong from Israel's own security point of view. He's pulling Israel closer and closer to the

brink of destruction. And the fact is, Israel does not have military dominance in the region as he thinks it does. 30 years ago, it was different. Iran has tremendous military capacity. It hasn't unleashed it. It doesn't want to unleash it, but it's there. And it will be unleashed if Iran continues to get hit. And Iran has allies as well. And Russia is an important ally. and Iran is going to be able to call on its allies. So Netanyahu is not only a murderer, which he is, he's not only an obsessive, which he is, because he's been obsessed with regime change. He's not only profoundly cynical and all the rest one could say, he's just wrong. He's been wrong for 30 years. Israel is less safe today than it has ever been since its founding. That's the real point. It's a tragedy and he's making it less safe by the hour. I'm going to guess that you were not surprised and not happy

when the IDF attacked United Nations peacekeepers. There's something so vulgar. It is as if Israel wants to say, we will do anything we want, violate any law, kill anyone we want. They've declared the Secretary General of the United Nations persona Adda. Israel's out to show it is a rogue state that no one can touch, but it's a profoundly reckless, not just immoral and against the law and illegal. Israel is going, I can't even use the words I would normally use, it is going to face a military onslaught is what I'm talking about. It thinks it's the big bully that can just kick everyone around. A lot of Israelis are going to be killed. A lot of Israelis are going to be killed if Netanyahu continues in this way, if the Israeli

government continues in this way. You know, the idea that, well, we got the U.S. military in our hip pocket. Tell that to the Ukrainians also or tell the Israelis a little bit about the Ukrainians who had the U.S. military in their hip pocket and 600,000 Ukrainians are dead. So what are they thinking? They don't. Again, I'm not a military analyst, but I can watch with my own eyes. I can listen to what the analysts are saying. Israel does not have military dominance, nor will the United States in this context. Yes, a lot of people can be killed on both sides.

This can escalate to World War III, but the idea that you attack Iran and it's going to back down, I don't think so. If you attack Iran, Iran is absolutely going to escalate, and Israel is going to be very disappointed with what happens. The last subject, the president or the White House announced the delivery of these THAAD, T-H-A-A-D. It's not these, it's one THAAD unit. The government only owns seven. And 100 U.S. troops accompanying it because it can only be operated by American troops. What happens when some of them come home in body bags? Well, they will, and one should understand that this system is not some magical system that is going to protect Israel from the Iranian missiles. It can protect Israel from a few. It's one system with a few anti-missile, with capacity to take down a few missiles. It can only fire 48.

Right. So we know that Iran has tens of thousands and we know that it has hypersonic missiles, which cannot be taken down by this system. So this is what is this? This is an act of PR. I doubt that it is an act of military significance. But yes, there will be American soldiers on the ground who can be killed as well. But the whole idea of this is so completely reckless and deliberate, which is what is astounding to this. This is a long-standing campaign. You know, we've talked about it briefly earlier, but I think the evidence is very strong that the plan already back in 2003, when the United States invaded Iraq, was that Iran was going to follow soon after, but the Iraq war turned out to be such an incredible debacle when the insurgency started that the U.S. never quite got on to Netanyahu's next target. So this is an effort that goes back a long time. During this period, by the way, Iran has gotten stronger and stronger militarily, technologically,

in its capacity to absolutely respond to Israel. Professor Sachs, thank you very much. It's such a dreadful topic, and it seems as though bad times are coming, but your analysis in helping us to understand these things is very enlightening. And I'm personally very grateful. Well, thank you. If I may say, you know, the assumption in Ukraine and the assumption here and the assumption as the United States talks about heading for war in China is a kind of invincibility, which is a profound mistake. We are facing formidable armies. We are facing formidable military potential. We should be sitting at the negotiating table to stop the mass slaughter of people on both sides. That's what's coming if we continue the direction we're going.

And the idea that, well, all we have to do is the cavalry has to ride in, we're way past those days. I don't even mean, I mean, even our modern super, you know, super technical solutions. We are matched right now. We have to understand World War III is not going to treat anyone on this planet kindly. Thank you, Professor Sachs. All the best. I hope we can see you again next week. Absolutely. Thanks a lot. Thank you. These are dark days, my friends, and I know this is gloomy, but we need to understand what's going on. Continuing this argument tomorrow at two o'clock in the afternoon, Max Blumenthal. At three in the afternoon, Karen Kwiatkowski. At four in the afternoon, Ambassador Charles Freeman.

Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.