Judging Freedom - Prof. Jeffrey Sachs: Can there be Peace with Netanyahu?

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

Prof. Jeffrey Sachs: Can there be Peace with Netanyahu?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, January 23rd, 2025. Professor Jeffrey Sachs joins us. Professor Sachs, it's a pleasure. I want to talk to you at some length on the relationship of Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and the relationship of Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu. But first, a surprise, something you and I have discussed at length in the past, has just popped up. I'd like you to tell me what you think of this. Lastly, sir, we have an executive order ordering the declassification of files relating to the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy,

Senator Robert F. Kennedy, and Reverend Dr. Martin K. Jr. That's a big one, huh? A lot of people are waiting for this for a long, for years, for decades. And everything will be revealed. Okay. Give that to RFKG. Yes, sir. I wonder if he's right that everything will be revealed or if these files have been denuded by now, Professor Sachs.

Well, this is an impressive and important step. Let's see what's there. The fact that there are still files that have been kept secret on JFK's assassination 62 years later is a sign that There are insiders until today worried about what the remaining files show. We know that President Trump wanted to release these files several years ago in his first term. And at that point, his CIA director, Mike Pompeo, said, no, they shouldn't be released. Well, we don't know what was destroyed, if anything, between then and now, but we're going to see something new, I believe, for the millions and millions of people that have looked at this, wondered about this, studied this, examined this over many decades. There are so many deep inconsistencies in the official narrative. The whole Warren

Commission has turned out essentially to be an utterly phony and contrived activity for the fewer, but many who have studied RFK's assassination, absolutely shocking evidence was excluded from consideration. Right. So we will probably learn something important. And I think it's notable what we just saw. Now let's see what gets released. I think people forget that on the Warren Commission was a future president of the United States, Gerald Ford. Indeed. And the chief counsel was a future United States senator for many years from Pennsylvania, Arlen Specter. absurd and tragic parts of the whole Warren Commission, because the forensics pointed to a conspiracy, to multiple shooters. The commission had to ignore huge amounts of forensic evidence,

including the number of shots fired and so forth, to reach the conclusion that it did. And our inspector played a role in that particular issue. Right. President Trump, and thank you for commenting on all that, Jeff. I didn't even give you a heads up that we were going to go there. This just happened literally 30 minutes ago. Chris caught the video and informed me of it. I didn't even know it, that he had actually signed this and made comment that all will come out. How I hope he's right, but I fear that the people in whose hands Mike Pompeo reposed these files for safekeeping

have destroyed portions of it. Well, maybe I'm wrong. We'll see what happens. President Trump recently was harshly critical of President Putin, saying he's ruining Russia. He's lost a million men in Ukraine. I don't know where he got that number from. Then he threatened Putin saying, if you don't come and sit down and negotiate meaningfully with President Zelensky, I'm going to impose more sanctions on Russia. The latter was met with laughter in the Kremlin. Does he know what he's talking about when it comes to President Putin?

Well, we never know exactly. How could you know? You can't get in his head. That's part of the art of all of this, isn't it? We have no idea. But what is probably true, bottom line, is that this war is coming to an end. And the reason I say it is that it seems to me inconceivable that Donald Trump and the Republican Congress would vote more military support for Ukraine after everything, after everything that's been said, after every statement that's been made. And without that, this war is ending. Ukraine cannot continue the war. Now, there's also ambiguity in the orders that President Trump made upon his inauguration, and that was to suspend all foreign aid for 90 days, apparently including, but with some ambiguity, the support to Ukraine. And if that's the case, it means that whatever the statements

and the rhetoric and the numbers used, in fact, this war has to close down. And that may be part of the strategy. We never quite know. But my feeling is in thinking about all these disparate statements and making threats and but also saying that the war has to end, attacking the spending, the continued deaths and so forth. If I add it all up, I think that we're seeing the last weeks of this war. more of fighting and as always in our discussions i've emphasized this war will end when the united states says absolutely clearly and unequivocally nato will not enlarge to uk Ukraine. Ukraine will be a neutral country, and not for a ceasefire, not for a 10-year period, not for a 20-year period, but that's just how it's going to be. And that's in America's interest, that's in Ukraine's interest,

that's in Russia's interest, and that's how this war is going to end. I hope that the people around Trump and the president himself understand this. No more games. No more talk about ceasefires. No more talk about, well, we'll have an armistice line and then NATO or maybe not NATO now, but maybe NATO 10 years. If they play that game, my God, after all this time, that would be a huge mistake. Tell me if you think that President Zelensky is delusional, Chris. Cut number 10. But will President Trump listen to Europe or will he negotiate with Russia and China without Europe? Europe needs to learn how how to fully take care of itself so that the world can't afford to ignore it. It's vital to maintain unity in Europe because the world doesn't care about just Budapest or Brussels. It cares about Europe as a whole. Not so sure what he's driving at. Does he think that Europe, either the EU or NATO or individual European countries could replace American largesse if

Trump in fact does turn the spigot off? Well, Europe could not do so in sheer military terms, doesn't have the material, it doesn't have the production capacity. So whatever he may think, if the completely failed approach in Ukraine, which was continued war, nobody in Europe stood up and said, this doesn't work. presidency to bring this to an end because Biden and the Biden administration was such a failure. But the war could have ended had Europe had a foreign policy. So on this, I happen to agree with Zelensky. He's delusional about a lot of things or desperate. Let's put it that way. He would desperately like the United States to be directly fighting this war. Great way to have World War III. No, thank you, President Zelensky. He wants Western troops on Ukrainian soil fighting Russians directly. That's delusional. That's absolutely tantamount to global war. So, yes, he's got a lot of desperation. 22, when he and Putin had negotiated a draft agreement and the United States came in and said, don't do it. And Zelensky at that moment should have said, I am president of Ukraine.

I am president of this country. I will reach this agreement with Putin. Had he done so, he would have saved hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives. The Biden administration, the president, Jake Sullivan, Antony Blinken, pursued this absolutely disastrous course at Ukraine's expense. But Zelensky, after March 2022, and really after also a famous visit by Boris Johnson that amplified that in April 2022, went along with it and said there will be no negotiations. He ruled them out.

He now rules by decree past his due date of a constitutional term. So there's nothing there but desperation in general, because this whole war and its extension past March 2022 could have ended in a month. But because of the United States, it has continued until today. I believe, though, that it's coming to an end now. I want to segue over to Israel, if I may. How stable, in your view, is the Netanyahu government today? Well, I think it's going to fall soon. One party has already left. There are two extremist parties, utterly extremist, extremist to the genocidal intent level of extremism. One of them left upon the signing of the ceasefire saying, I'll come back if the war starts again, the other threatens to leave if the second stage of the ceasefire goes forward and is expecting Netanyahu to return to war. But I think what's going to happen is that President Trump is basically going to say no.

Just like in Ukraine, we are not funding, backing, or going to be complicit in the collapse of this agreement. We want actually this problem to be ended. That's my guess, actually. A little bit more of a stretch because of, of course, the weight of the pro-Israel politics in Washington. But I don't think Trump wants this bloodshed to continue as somehow in the interest of his administration when he wants to do a lot of other things. And so my feeling is that the reason that the reaction of the zealots, Ben-Gabir and Smotrich, Ben-Gabir having left the coalition, Smotrich conditionally remaining, but only on the condition that the ceasefire break down, they understand that this is also an end game for

this war. And I don't think it's going to continue. And I don't know, now I'm really speculating, but I don't think Trump wants this kind of war on his watch. And that's why when he sent Steve Witkoff, his friend and business partner and now negotiator, and said, put your foot down, get this ceasefire, and tell him, no nonsense, there will be a ceasefire before I become president. It worked. And I think the Netanyahu legitimacy is over. There's lots of talk in Israel that this has been a horrific debacle. Several IDF, Israeli Defense Forces, senior officials have recently resigned over the debacle, but implicitly that's pointing at the responsibility of the boss, and that's Netanyahu. So I don't see him having a long shelf life as prime minister. Here's someone incoming into the administration who's very, though I think

she's Catholic, is a very, very strident Zionist. I think you will appreciate the sentiments articulated by Senator Van Hollen as he's interrogating Representative Elise Stefanik. But when she answers yes to, it is cringeworthy. Cut number 16. I asked you in my office also about whether Palestinians have the right of self-determination. My understanding was you said yes. You have a different answer today. That was not the direct question that we discussed. I said the Palestinian people... You believe the Palestinians have the right of self-determination. I believe the Palestinian people deserve so much better than the failures that they've had from terrorist leadership. We agree on that. It's just a pretty simple question.

And I believe we need peace in the region. Of course they deserve human rights. So... I want to ensure that, number one, we bring the hostages home. So do all of us. Representative Stefanik, let me just ask you. I have 30 seconds left. I'm rarely surprised by answers in my office, but I did ask you whether you subscribe to the views of Finance Minister Smotrich. Of who? I'm sorry. Smotrich. This is the Israeli finance minister Smotrich and the former national security minister Ben-Gadir, who believe that Israel has a biblical right to the entire West Bank. And in that conversation, you told me that, yes, you shared that view. Is that your view today? Yes.

Okay. I think when it comes to this very difficult issue, if the president is going to succeed at bringing peace and stability to the Middle East, we're going to have to look at the UN Security Council resolutions, not just the ones on Lebanon, which we should enforce, but other UN Security Council resolutions. And it's going to be very difficult to achieve that if you continue to hold the view that you just expressed, which is a view that was not held by the founders of the State of Israel, who were secular Zionists, not religious Zionists. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think Senator Van Hollen has got a good handle on things, but how she can enter office with that biblical religious view animating her is beyond me. Well, I'll say one thing.

The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations does not make policy. The U.S. ambassador to the U.N. represents U.S. policy. So as surprising as that answer is, I don't think it is determinative of what is ahead. It's a pretty shocking answer, by the way, rather shocking. But the fact of the matter is President Trump will, let me put it a different way. The entire world, other than the United States and Israel, believes in the two-state solution. This, I think, is really the bottom line that everybody should understand. The Arab League countries, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, which is 57 Muslim-majority countries, the G20, the BRICS countries, the UN General Assembly by more than 170 countries, the International Court of Justice. Everybody believes in the two-state solution, except this radical government in Israel.

And even though the United States government under Biden would murmur in the way that Blinken used to do, we believe in the two-state solution. The U.S. also supposedly does as well. In other words, there is global near unanimity other than extremists in Israel. So the question is, will there be peace or will there be continued war on behalf of extremism, real zealotry, biblical literalism of a book from the 7th century BC, the book of Joshua. Is that what defines our current war or peace? Well, maybe for individuals, yes. But I'm telling you, for the entire world community, for all the countries around the world, but Israel's government, the answer is no. We can't operate in a world safely that way. of war, making such an assertion that we don't care if there are millions of people who suffer,

if they die, if they get pushed out, if they're ethnically cleansed, if they live under Israeli rule, we don't care. That's the zealot position. That's, I don't know whether Stefanik understands that or not, whether she cares. Frankly, it's not going to be at her level where such decisions are made. President Trump is going to have to ask, do we want peace? What about the relations with Saudi Arabia? What about the relations with the Arab world? The Saudis, for example, very important foreign policy partner of the United States, extremely important, says, yes, there can even be normalization with Israel, but based on two states. That is based on there being a state of Palestine, as well as a state of Israel. And that includes the West Bank. I hope Congresswoman Stefanik

understands. So this is a question. Will the U.S. sever its diplomatic relations with the rest of the world on behalf of the assertion of the two religious extremists in Israel? I don't know. I doubt it. I think Trump is going to say, are you kidding? We're going to have peace. We're going to have peace the way the whole world wants. That's at least what I would recommend. Otherwise, he'll just, his whole term will get eaten up by all of these wars. It's the job of the American president to stop all of this. We're funding the wars. We're arming the wars. We've got to stop it. Jeff, keep recommending it because you never know when a speech that you give is going to be captured by the President of the United States and used to change American foreign policy and maybe change the history of the world. And I cannot think of a more deserving and intellectually honest and personally courageous person than my friend Jeff Sachs to have been that individual. You don't have to reply to that. And I have to run. I love you, Jeff. Thank you very much. Thanks so much.

Middle of night where you are now, but thank you so much. All the best. We'll see you again. We'll see you next week. You got it. Bye. A great human being. Coming up at 4.30 this afternoon, Colonel Douglas McGregor, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.