Judging Freedom - Prof. Jeffrey Sachs : Who Would Trust Netanyahu?

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

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Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Monday, October 13, 2025. Professor Jeffrey Sachs, joins us now. Professor Sachs, I know it's a late in the day where you are. Thank you very much for accommodating my schedule today. I would like your thoughts on what took place in Israel today and how a ceasefire came about without any negotiations involving one of the combating sides. Well, fortunately, for the moment, at least, the mass murder has stopped. I think what happened is that Israel reached its blood quota. Israeli officials had said that 50 Palestinians will die for every Israeli that died on October 7, 2023.

And that totals about 64,000. And by the official count of the Gaza health authorities, the death toll is around 67,000. I think Israel had just murdered enough people. And Donald Trump said in his speech in the Knesset that it was bad, it was bad killing, killing. So stop. I think this is a deal, so-called, that could have been reached any time in the last couple of years. Basically, it stops the killing and the hostages were released. Nothing else is settled, but fortunately, the killing is stopped, and that's good news.

The rest is about real politics, and there aren't real politics right now yet. And so this is a day to hope that somehow reality will pierce through the showmanship of the Trump White House, which has been complicit in this mass murder since it came into office. And, of course, the Biden administration was complicit in the mass murder. We can hope that something more real happens going forward. This is not a peace agreement. This is the end of fighting and the release of hostages held by Israel, a couple of thousand, the 20 living hostages that were held by Hamas.

And this is good. But it's not, unfortunately, a peace deal, because the peace deal requires serious politics. And we don't know whether this White House is interested or capable of that. And we don't know what the stamina of the rest of the world will be to try to do a serious peace agreement that could really resolve this crisis. If we don't have such an agreement, there will be more war and renewal of killing, maybe war with Iran and the United States. States, many terrible things can happen unless there's a movement to peace. As I've discussed with you on probably dozens of occasions by now, the only peace that is possible is a state of Palestine, that it lives alongside the state of Israel. That was not mentioned by Mr. Trump today,

either in his speech in Jerusalem or his speech in Cairo, not in Cairo, sorry, in Egypt, in Charmel Sheikh, in the meeting that followed the speech in Jerusalem. So, you know, so far it's just an important step today, there should be no congratulation of Trump or Netanyahu. This killing has gone on far too long, and it could have been ended on these terms at any time. Didn't Hamas actually

didn't Hamas actually accept a deal like this Professor Sachs several times before and the Israelis rejected or maybe the Americans under Biden? Of course. This deal could have been had at any time. The Israelis wanted to kill a lot of people. They wanted to kill a lot of people. They wanted to reassert their dominance. And the way that they explain that is that they need to kill 50 Palestinians for every Israeli that died. This was a show of might and terror. And that's what this was about. This was not about. about even Hamas, because Hamas as a fighting force was degraded soon after the Israeli operation started. Netanyahu, who himself said that. And today didn't change anything dramatic. There was no disarmament or anything more fundamental.

What happened today could have happened. tens of thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths earlier. And I'd like to say something to the viewers because last time that I mentioned when we were together the 67,000 deaths, there were a lot of correct comments that why do you say 67,000? It's probably hundreds of thousands. And of course, that's right.

I said 67,000 because that's what the Gaza health authorities officially declares the bodies that have been collected. But the specialists, the epidemiologists and common sense, indicates that the actual deaths are many times that. There are no doubt thousands and thousands of bodies buried in the rubble. There are no doubt tens of thousands of people who have died from, hunger, who have died from deprivation of safe water, who have died from lack of access to health care. It will only be now, and let us hope that specialists are allowed to go in and do their job to ascertain what the actual death toll has been.

In my view, this is a crime scene, Gaza. It's a crime of genocide. It needs to be documented. what has actually happened. It's likely that the actual death toll is many times the 67,000 that have been counted. But when I refer to that number, it's not that I'm oblivious of the reality. Quite the contrary, it is that that is the official death toll of the Gaza health authorities at this moment. I'm curious about why you think Netanyahu claim to be happy. today. He failed to crush Hamas. He failed to eradicate the Palestinian people from Gaza. He severely wrecked Israel economically, politically, culturally, diplomatically. And the whole

world now questions the moral basis for the Zionist apartheid state. I agree. Netanyahu has brought Israel closer to self-destruction than was imaginable. But Netanyahu, first of all, is a politician, and he's playing for the masses, and he wants to take credit for bringing 20 hostages home. And there was thrills and excitement in Israel of the hostages coming. coming home. It's an odd thing. I have to say it makes me very, makes me very sad and very wary of all of this. Of course, the 20 hostages coming home is a good thing. But there have been perhaps hundreds of thousands of deaths, not mentioned today by Trump or Netanyahu. Of course,

they are the agents of that mass murder and so it's all very strange and very peculiar and a lot of showmanship but like a politician he wants to show that he's in control and hosting Donald Trump and they each praised each other as wonderful people and everything's fantastic and of course till Now, it is still the case that Trump and his cronies don't say anything about the state of Palestine and don't say anything about the realities of genocide. And so Netanyahu may think, well, I still got this guy in our control and we're still going to have permanent control and we're maybe going to go to war together against Iran. Everything is unsettled right now.

So Netanyahu knows to put the smile on and take the applause and take the happiness of the Israeli people that hostages have come home and take credit for it. It's from any objective standpoint, almost a sickness in this tragic situation in the immediate aftermath that we hope of a genocide for this kind of spectacle to be staged. But this is how it is. We're in the land of make believe and spectacle. president is a showman. He's not a serious person. He's a showman. And this is the show that we have put on. Apparently, in addition to being a showman, he's still a businessman. I don't even know if this is licit, and I should. But while on a government plane and a government mission, he's negotiating for a

deal with the President of Indonesia. This apparently was a hot microphone that neither of them knew was hot. Watch this. Is there in a region? I'm not safe security. Can I meet Eric? Yeah, I'll have Eric. You're such a good boy.

Yeah, yeah. I'll have a guy. Yeah. That is not authorized it. So good. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. That's all this.

I took Harry also. I don't carry about it. We'll look for better place. Look for them. Yeah, all of things. All of that. Do you let me know what you have something? Okay.

Yeah, yeah. I'm very cold. No, right? Oh, a little John, beautiful. Yeah. We are fantastic. You are fantastic. Thank you.

I'll have one of them like you my second I like Ben you told me that we don't need that we don't need that I'll translate some of it yes and it's in the region

and I'm not perfectly at least safe and secure here can I meet Eric yeah how do I talk to Eric yeah you're such a good boy I'll have that yeah I need it yeah I'm not afraid of Eric

the Eric is probably Trump's son They're obviously talking about some kind of a deal that the president of Indonesia wanted to talk to Trump's son, Eric, about, I don't know if Eric was there on the trip where the president of Indonesia was trying to arrange it. This type of thing is derogur for the Trump presidency today, is it not? everyone in the entourage has a side deal going it is pervasive of course the president himself and his family all of these so-called negotiators they have side deals everybody's everybody's making money they're they're having a good time it's um this is what has happened to to to the united states it is a pay-for-play politics everywhere in the congress in the white house and uh on all of these

foreign trips we know but we see this every day there's nothing new or surprising what is The shocking thing is that it doesn't matter. There's no control. There's no interest in control. There's no second guessing of this. There's no inspectors general. There's no one in Congress. This is America now.

We have a profoundly corrupt political system. Americans know it. They don't know what to do with it. they don't have any power to do anything because, frankly, it's the billionaires that run the show. Everybody understands this. And the billionaires are in every deal. Here's Trump praising the Mossad's wealthiest asset. Cut number 11. She's got 60 billion in the bank, 60 billion. And she loved... and she loves Israel, I think she's saying no more, and she loves Israel, but she loves it, and they would come in, and her husband was a very aggressive man, but I loved them.

It was a very aggressive, very supportive of me, and he'd call up, can I come over and see you? I say, Sheldon, I'm the president of the United States. It doesn't work that way. He'd come in, but they were very responsible for so much, including getting me thinking about Golo, which is probably one of the greatest things to ever happen. Miriam, stand up, please. She really is. I mean, she loves this country. She loves this country. Her and her husband are so incredible.

We miss him so dearly. But I actually asked, I've got to get her in trouble with this, but I actually asked her once they said, So Miriam, I know you love Israel. What do you love more? The United States or Israel? She refused to answer. That means, that might mean Israel, I must say.

Is that really something to joke about? Is it really appropriate for the president of the United States to reveal to the whole world someone's personal wealth? Well, it's the personal wealth that helped buy him his presidency, to which he owes his allegiance and to which his interest is always dedicated. So for Trump, this is absolutely normal. The fact that this is what has become of the United States is our tragedy. And it's the tragedy of the Palestinian people. It's the tragedy of people that die in wars concocted by these billionaires. For them, it's a game.

For us, it's a reality. It is repulsive to watch that, frankly, completely repulsive. Because there's so much giddiness of power. There's so much drunkenness of power on display today that there's no attempt even to hide anything to hide the money influence, to hide the mass killings, nothing. They are giddy with power, and it is a class of billionaires like Mrs. Adelson, who own our media, who own our Congress, who own our president. And if the results were, I'm dreaming, of course, kind of normal and good, that would be one thing. But they are awful, absolutely nothing to do with American public opinion or American interests or the world's interests or peace and stability. Think of all the tech companies how much money they've made on this war, how they have big contracts with the Israeli defense forces as this mass killing was going on.

Did we hear from Microsoft or Amazon or meta or alphabet Google or anybody a word about the mass murder? not. This is their business model and no reason to even take note of it. So it's so interesting, yes, that for Trump, this is, it's not even a question for him to celebrate her $60 billion or whatever it is and the role that she's played in this, in American politics, in this destruction that's just happened. And of course, for them, there's no destruction. For them, this was all a game. And for Israel, it was a show of force. We kill 50 for every one that died on October 7, 2023. That's just how it is. For the rest of us and for the Palestinian people, It's an unfathomable tragedy that continues today because there's no serious talk or reflection about tomorrow.

There's just deals to be made and viceroy's to take control of someone else's land and they're giddy with it. Even if the viceroy, like Tony Blair, is himself a work criminal. I just want to switch to another topic before we conclude. The question is, why is Trump taunting the Russians over Tomahawks? But in fairness to Trump, I have to play the clip, which is in his usual frivolity, but that's what he says. Chris number nine. We talked about weapons, and the weapons are saying. to NATO and NATO then sends us a check. They pays more info and they would need more weapons

and we're looking into doing that. We hope we're going to be able to provide them. They'd like to have Tomahawks. Let's step up. They'd like to have Tomahawks. We talked about that and so so we'll see. Well, I don't know. I might have to speak to Russia to be honest with you about tomahawks. Do they want to have Tomahawks going in their direction? I don't know. So I think I might speak to Russia about that, in all fairness. I told that to President Zelensky because Tomahawks are a new step of aggression. Are you saying that you will speak to Putin first about Tomahawks? I might talk to him.

I might say, look, if this war's not going to get settled, I'm going to send them Tomahawks. I may say that if the war is not settled, that we may very well do. We may not, but we may do it. I think it's appropriate to bring up. Professor Sachs, was anything positive accomplished by the conference that Presidents Putin and Trump had in Anchorage, Alaska? The Russians have concluded that there's nothing in this administration that can be trusted and that, no, there's nothing that really came out of this. What's been reported in the last 48 hours is the extent to which the United States has been working with Ukraine already for attacks deep inside Russia on Russian energy infrastructure.

Americans should understand that these are attacks by the United States personnel on Russia, that the U.S. is at war with Russia. and how extraordinarily dangerous that is. Tomahawks is not even the point right now. The point is that this is already happening. Americans are providing missile systems, guidance, intelligence, tracking, location, everything that is part of an attack on Russia.

And I think the Russians know, full well that this is not a serious administration that one talks to. They don't taunt Trump. They don't want escalation. But this is such an unpredictable and deeply worrisome approach of the U.S. that is some mix of the frivolousness of the White House and the insidiousness of the normal deep state in the United States, meaning decisions taken by the CIA, the Pentagon, and others to continue to escalate the war. So from the Russian point of view, they're proceeding with the war. Ukraine is the one that's suffers all of this. The Ukrainian people overwhelmingly want this war to end at the negotiating table.

But there's a dictator in Ukraine named Zelensky. He rules by martial law. He does not have public opinion on his side, but he doesn't have public opinion because he's ruling by decree. In the United States, Trump and the military and the CIA does what it does this security state, also without American public opinion or without any honest discussion. And the situation every day is fraught with extraordinary danger that this can escalate to complete disaster. We've talked about this for years now. Trump has changed nothing about this. Trump changed nothing really in the Middle East. We had this bloodletting.

We had this mass slaughter. Maybe it stopped temporarily. Maybe there'll be a renewed war of the United States and Israel with Iran. Maybe there'll be escalation with Russia. But this is not unfortunately stable or serious governance. It certainly has no characteristics of deliberative democracy. Let me put it that way. The American people and Congress play zero role in this.

And that is by itself quite alarming. Professor Sachs, thank you very much. Long day for you, long day here, but worth waiting for, I hope, certainly from my perspective and the perspective of our viewers, all the best to you. We'll see you again, we'll see again very soon. Thank you. Excellent.

Thanks a lot. I will be traveling, as many of you know, but back before the end of the week. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.