Judging Freedom - Ray McGovern : Can Gaza Get Food ?

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

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That's an equivalent to $15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited. plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, September 29, 2025. Ray McGovern will be here with us in just a moment on can Gaza get food? Can Ukraine get tomahawks? But first this. Why do so many financial experts call silver, the most undervales, the most undervales,

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map.com. Don't wait. The government can print dollars, but it can't print silver. Graeme McGovern, welcome here, my dear friend. It was great spending time with you in person. After all these years of working together at Gerald Salentie's rally on Saturday, and I enjoyed all of our time together, and I enjoyed all of our time together on air. Before we get to Gaza and Tomahawks, I had a fascinating conversation with Larry earlier, Larry Johnson, about Trend de Aragua. Does the CIA fund foreign drug dealers for some nefarious purpose? Does it do that? They do do that. I had the good fortune to be able to listen to Larry after I got back off the plane. he's a wealth of information on this,

not only for what he did during his CIA analytical work, he was in State Department and counterterrorism. He knows that these guys are jinned up paid for, and the president just signs a finding, and so you guys go ahead and do it. So the head of Syria now is one of the guys that chopped off a lot of heads. I mean, literally, personally, chopped up all that.

Now General Petraeus is about. scraping him and say, oh, man, you know, I was a four-star when we didn't like you, but we love you now. I don't want to dwell on this, and we can't post it, but Chris has a picture of him, the now-president of Syria, holding two heads that he had recently cut off. It's obviously revolting to watch, and we won't and can't. He was one of our moderate terrorist, Judge. What is the logic behind funding monsters, whether they're cutting off heads or whether they're getting drugs into the West? Well, President Obama said, Bashar al-Assad's days are finished.

We're going to split them apart and split Syria apart. And whom does that benefit? Well, a state called Israel, just like it benefited Israel when we did what we did in Iraq. So Israel is always the principal factor here, and Israel has stolen a march in southern Syria, whether they're up to what the Turks are likely to do to Syria is another question, but the Syrian people like it. One of my taxi drivers was from Syria. I was talking to him just yesterday. My God, what a sad, sad story. Well, do we know if Tulsi Gabbard is giving intel to the president, or if John Ratcliffe, who heads the CIA, is doing it independent of her?

Or is it something we'll never know the answer to? Well, I hope not, because to hear the president spew out what General Kellogg tells him. Right. That's my point. Disparency. Now, the key here, Judge, is that Kellogg talks to Zelensky. And so he knows the latest. And then he tells the president, now Zelensky told me that we're winning and the Russians are losing.

The Russian economy is falling apart. So I get there firsthand from Zelensky. Now, the same thing happened with Bill Burns for Gadsig. When he told the president early July, two years ago, to say that, Putin had already lost, that his army had been shown as incompetent for the whole world to see. I found out where he had been the previous week. He was talking to Zelensky.

And I'm sure Zelensky said, now, Bill, no problems. When you see the president, Helsinki, you tell him to say, Putin has already looked, we got this all quartered out, don't worry about it. So are these people totally naive? Well, I dare say when people like Quitkoff will have a chance to look at all this stuff and see the history behind these Tomahawk missiles, for example, they were banned, you know, under the INF Treaty.

They'll see a little bit more about how the Russians look at these things and how, how agreeable they are. Lavrov at the UN and at his subsequent press conference, bent over backwards. what about questions from sky news what about the Trump calling you guys a paper tiger what about that lover oh people say things in public that they don't really mean it's really kind of strange but you know this it's part of the calculus what they say in private is what we do diplomacy to prevent what i mean in other words they're bending over backwards to to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. Now, does Trump really want peace?

I think he does. The question is, whether with the Kellogg's around, and with these false reassurances that the Soviet economy is falling apart, and for him to spew that thing, when did he do it? Oh, that was right after he talked to Zelensky, wasn't it? Hours after. So, no, the big thing here, Judge, what I'm trying to say is the Soviet Soviets. The Russians are not taking all of it.

very seriously. At least they're pretending not to. Now, there comes to a point where the military will go to President Putin and say, look, you know, we know the kind of game that Lava Ruff is playing. That's called diplomacy. But Tomahawks are not diplomacy. And Joe Biden promised not to put medium-stripped missiles in Ukraine. He did that right before the negotiations started in Geneva, in early January, 2022, okay? He did that solemnly in a phone call with Joe Biden. Now, no, people don't know about this. Maybe it was because of the holidays.

But the Russians called up the White House. said, look, President Putin wants to talk to President Biden right away. And they said, well, wait a second. They just talked two weeks ago, and the negotiators are getting together in Geneva, and wait, please, please. Well, Biden was home alone for Christmas, if you get the illusion. No one was with him. And here's the readout from Ushakoff, who is very much still in the picture.

This is the day after, namely December 31, 2021. Ushkhov is sort of update. He says, look, Moscow is pleased with the outcome of that telephone conversation between Mr. Biden and Mr. Putin. Because the president of the United States, There it is. Quote, in this context, President Biden emphasized that Russia and the U.S. shared a special responsibility for ensuring stability in Europe and that Washington, get this folks, that Washington had no intention of deploying offensive strike missiles in Ukraine, period, end quote.

A solemn commitment. It's on the record. What happened just two weeks later? Lavrov, corners Tony Blinken, and he says, Tony, the negotiators in Geneva pretend not to have any instructions about what the president pledged on the 30th of December. What's going on? And Tony Blinkett says, give me a break. We weren't with him.

Solomon wasn't with him. He was home alone. Forget about it. Okay, forget about it. We have the right to put medium-strike missiles in Ukraine. And we will, if they ask us to. No, no, Mr. Lavrov, we might be able to talk about limiting the number of them, but forget about what the president said.

We know that because Lavrov said that in an interview. I read all these interviews. So what happened? Two weeks later, on the 12th of February, just two weeks before the invasion of Ukraine, we had the last telephone call between the two. And what does that say? And says, well, look, here's Usharkovina. Well, he says this was not, well, the President of the United States refused not only to talk about no Ukraine in NATO, but also about his pledge made on the 30th of January, 2022, not to put offensive strike missiles in Ukraine in Ukraine.

Now, what are offensive strike missiles? Well, Dave. I'm not stopping for just a minute, Ray. We're going to play a clip of General Kellogg and Tomo missiles. But before we do that, forgive the interruption. We have Netanyahu and Trump live. We're going to listen to them for just a moment. We'll get right back to you.

No problem. And I know them will have many friends from Iran and many friends that are Americans from Iran, and they're very proud of Iran. But I hated to do it just so you understand. And I hope we're going to be able to do something so that it doesn't end up in a very catastrophic situation. I don't want to see that happen. I really want to see peace. And I hope that we're able to do that.

They cannot have a nuclear weapon. It's very simple. I'm not putting restrictions. They cannot have one thing. They cannot have a nuclear weapon. And if I think that they will have a nuclear weapon despite what I just said,

I think that's going to be very unfortunate for them. If on the other hand they can convince us that they won't, and I hope they can, it's very easy to do. It's actually very easy to do. I think they're going to have an unbelievable future. Yeah, please. Go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. President. You just laid out your plan for Gaza. Yes. Can you laid out your plan for Ukraine and also... For Ukraine? For Ukraine, yes. You consider yourself a strong leader. You blame your predecessor for letting Russia to take over Ukraine.

Will you demand from Putin to get out of Ukraine, from the sovereign territory of Ukraine? So we're dealing right now on the subject. I don't want to spend a lot of time because we're here for another reason. but we are having very good talks very constructive talks on ukraine and we are uh talking to the russians we're talking to the ukrainian leadership uh it would have never happened that would have never happened it should have never happened uh i get reports every week the number of soldiers mostly soldiers now the cities have been largely demolished you talk about a uh all right ray we're back to you. If they make anything dramatic, we'll bring it to you as soon as we can,

but you did notice that whatever, when Trump was speaking, Netanyahu did not look very happy. So we don't know what they talked about. Well, let me make a guess. Let me make a guess, Judge. Please. The key issue, of course, is whether Iran is working on a nuclear weapon, not nuclear enrichment, okay? the two are conflated and that's misleading. Iran was formally judged not to be working on a nuclear weapon since the end of 2003, a judgment reiterated as recently as marched this year by Tulsi Gabbard.

Now, what's changed? Well, it all has to do with the IAEA. Now, there's a simple way to load it back in there, okay, and have them verify with all their cameras and all the other stuff and the overhead photography from our satellites that there's no evidence, let me put it that way, that they're working on a specific nuclear weapon. Now, I know people say where they could do this in a apartment house.

I'm not sure they can do that, but there's a fatwa against it. A fatwa is important to Muslims. It's not like an encyclical. You can take it or leave it, okay? Sorry about that, but that's the way it seems. Agreed. When you have a religious edict like this, not only does it have to be reversed, but my best sources tell me it has to be reversed in public.

It's a big major issue. It's got to be before the parliament. They've got to do this whole thing. Let me stop you because when Ritter and Blumenthal and Professor Saxon, and I had lunch with the president of Iran last week here in New York. He said the exact same thing that you have just said. Whoa. Well, yeah, that's false confirmation.

It was not a public meeting. It was private. How they chose who was going to be there. I don't know. But he said just what you just said, Ray. You're, as usual, 100% on the mark. Chris, let's dip in and hear what Netanyahu is saying. Chris.

I just think. Go ahead, please. Do you have any plans to visit Israel? To visit where? Israel. Well, I love Israel. I will visit there and I'll visit Gaza and I'll visit Saudi Arabia and I'll visit other places all over the Middle East.

Middle East is an incredible place, so vibrant. So it's just one of the really beautiful places and with great people. All right. I thought something more profound was coming. I apologize for interrupting you. Right. You're providing us with such extraordinary information and even history today. Let me ask you a few questions about Gaza.

Why have no countries provided humanitarian assistance to the suffering Palestinians? Why aren't there Spanish warships delivering supplies or British helicopters dropping them over Gaza? Because they're afraid they'll be shot up. The Israelis have this fixation on using violence to protect themselves, so to speak. It almost happened to us on the U.S. boat to Gaza in 2011. They'll do this. And if the U.S. is in full support of Israel, as by all evidence, it seems to be still, even with genocide and forced starvation, well, the Spaniards, the Italians, who have sent warships now to pick up the pieces in case people have to dive overboard after the Russians, after the Israelis drop whatever on the top of their deck. So all I'm saying is that Israel is very intimidating.

And unless the U.S. takes the lead and saying, all right, this is enough, okay? There are 42 boats, not ships, but boats are on their way to Gaza now. There's also another boat just starting and right. My friend is on that. They're journalists. So journalists and another protection, I think it's doctors. Now, they're going to. So will the Israelis blow these up?

Well, you know, I have mixed emotions about that. I hope not. But if they do, my God, the Uniting for Peace Resolution will be, in my view, unable to escape. And finally, the UN can act if someone has some teeth, get around the U.S. veto, and send peacekeeping forces like the Indonesians have already volunteered 10,000 troops. The Chinese may participate. That would be the end of our friend Netanyahu, but it's necessary. People are dying every day.

I mean, I never thought our country would be supporting, enabling, financing, and apologizing for genocide. Should American ships in the Mediterranean fear a false flag instigated by the Israelis? Well, it happened before, didn't it? U.S.S. Liberty in June, on June 8th of 1967, that was a little bit different from a false flag, but the Israelis are capable of anything. They see this as an existential thing. And that's why what really worries me is that people who know a lot more about Iran and Israel than I do seem convinced that it's just a matter of time before Israel hits out at Iran once again, and that the U.S.

may be dragged into it again. If that happens, the Iranians have the capability to destroy Israel. Now, is Israel going to sit back and say, well, I'm going to, nothing ventured, nothing? No, they have nuclear weapons, for God's sake. That's what really scares me. Would an extremist, would Netanyahu resort to small nuclear weapons? Well, here's a guy who does genocide, forced starvation, all kinds of other stuff. You'd think you would shrink away from using one of those nukes?

extremists? No, I don't. That's what the problem is. That's why we have to get Trump and his associates to realize, look, for God's sake, tell them to stop, tell them to stop now, and don't have another round of attacks on uranium nuclear facilities. We just watched President Trump in the presence of Prime Minister Netanyahu saying he hopes that the Iranians are not developing a nuclear weapon because they're good people, they're peaceful people and he looks forward to a relationship with him. Netanyahu doesn't want that. Netanyahu wants to destroy Iran and turn it into another Syria, doesn't he? He does and you know the proof is in the pudding here. Can Trump, however much he really loves

the Iranian people, can he defy Netanyahu when Netanyahu has been jerking him around for the last three years on the end of a rope? I haven't given a Pope. I think a lot of the domestic unrest that we have in our country, the people who are saying, no, no. We don't give 80% support for Israel anymore in a knee-jerk kind of way. It's less than 50%, Mr. President. Can you recognize that?

I think that may have an impact, but I wish it would happen soon before another 10th of the Palestinian population is either killed or starved to death. Ray McGovern, thank you very much, my dear friend. A pleasure, no matter what we're talking about. Thank you for all the factual analysis that you bring to us. We'll look forward to seeing you with Larry Johnson on Friday. Thanks, Judge.

See you then. Thank you. All the best. And coming up at 2 o'clock this afternoon, Scott Ritter, at 3 o'clock, Max Blumenthal, at 4 o'clock, Professor Jeffrey Sachs. and Paul Tanna for judging freedom. Thank you.