Judging Freedom - Ray McGovern : Fantasy vs. Reality: Ukraine’s Search for Security

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Ray McGovern : Fantasy vs. Reality: Ukraine’s Search for SecuritySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Pragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression, with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? the government? What if Jefferson was right? What if that government is best, which governs least? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish

fighting for freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, February 2, in 2000 and 26, Ray McGovern will be here with us in just a moment on Zelensky's fantasy. Is he really going to get security guarantees in a post-war Ukraine? But first this. History tells us every market eventually falls. Currencies collapse. And look at where we are now.

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Get the free information. There's no pressure. And that's why I buy my gold and silver from Lear. And right now, you can get up to $20,000 in bonus medals with a qualified purchase. Call 800, 511, 4620 or go to Learjudgeonnapp.com today. Ray McGarman, welcome here, my dear friend. and thanks for accommodating my schedule, as you always do.

Before we get to Ukraine and its wish for security guarantees, do you think that President Trump will start a war or at least conduct a quick attack on Iran in order to deflect the American public's attention from his terrible domestic woes and his dismal approval ratings? Yes, I think it is quite possible that that would be the major reason. Let's face it, it's not going to work. The military has told him that even Netanyahu has dissuaded him from doing this precise thing two weeks ago, what's changed in two

weeks. So there's got to be an extraneous reason. Now, I've been called a conspiracy theorist way back 20 years ago when I said there were no weapons of mass destruction. in Iraq and no ties between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Ten years ago, I was called the conspiracy theorist because I couldn't believe that the Russians would have hacked into the Democratic National Committee. So I'm going to give you another conspiracy theory, in quotes, that may turn out to be right, Judge, and it is this. You don't have to be a father of young girls, as I am.

well, not so young anymore, three and six young granddaughters, to realize and feel the heinous, the heinousness, the moral turpitude that comes through the Epstein files, in which Trump has mentioned thousands of times, okay? Photos, videos, it's all there. Now, we know that Mossad was very much involved, with the people, with Epstein and Maxwell and the others, Maxwell particularly, but doesn't have to be Masada anymore. I mean, they had blackmail material on Trump, but now so does Dick Durbin, Senator Durbin,

Jamie Reskin from the House, they've all got the evidence now. Now, if Bill Clinton, not averse to moral turpitude himself, on a relatively different, sort of, I won't say minor, but because his semen was found on Lewinsky's dress. If he could flail out on a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan to get the Al-Qaeda people and divert attention, it's called wagging the dog, okay, divert attention from that. Why wouldn't Trump in extremists? and I believe he's entering extremists here. He's taking it on the chin, not only in Minneapolis, but in many ways.

And, you know, the national security strategy, now everyone knows by now that, yeah, that was significant. That turned the focus on the Western Hemisphere, but most people forget that the homeland is part of the Western Hemisphere and when Politico of all places found out, found the initial draft of this thing, was issued in November, but the initial draft was divulged to Politico. In June, it said, okay, Venezuela and that kind of thing, but also the homeland. So Trump wants to keep troops very close to the homeland. And in that first draft, and I imagine it's in a secret codicil still, they want the troops

already. Why? Well, all this stuff coming out here, though midterms are coming. And by God, two years from now, will Trump want to run again? Of course he will want to. Will he be able to? I would put nothing past this guy. After all, look what he did on January 6th for God's.

I never thought that the American people would tolerate this kind of person again. And so moral turpitude, the kind of heinous stuff that he was involved in, I don't put it past him to start a war with Iran, although there's lots of things now coming in to dissuade him. That would be most of the reason it seems to me because it makes no sense otherwise. What do you think Intel is telling him about his ability to, I can't even fill in the blank, Ray, because I don't know what his goal is. goal to kill the Ayatollah, is his goal to kill President Pasechkin, is his goal to destroy Iran's offensive ballistic missile weaponry? I don't think any of those goals is realistically attainable. Yeah, Judge, I agree with you completely. That's why I've been searching all weekend for some plausible reason why he would not to do this. And I've said just now that I think a plausible reason

is wagging the dog, diverting attention from all these things, just so they can of a war, a limited war, of course, but get stuff, get the attention away from the Epstein files. I think that's a loaded gun. You remember the tapes in Watergate, right? When they were divulge, well, it's the same sort of thing. And I think if he goes ahead, and I hope he doesn't now, I think there's evidence that he won't. But if he goes ahead, I think that's the only logical reason. that I, as a conspiracy theorist, can come up with.

Do the people around him, whether it's Sebastian Gorka or Stephen Miller or Pete Hagseth or Marco Rubio, offer a consistent Iran strategy? Well, you mentioned the gang of four. I did not put Tulsi Gabbard in there, but you're welcome. come through. No, she doesn't belong there, but these guys certainly do. Now, Stephen Miller has got the president's ear, witness what's going on in Minnesota. Pam Bondi, what's she going to do when she goes before Congress just two weeks from now, or 10 days from now, actually, and they ask her to say, how do you apply the anti-abortion kind of legislation?

to demonstrations inside a church by a journalist. How do you do that? She can't do that. So things are coming loose at the edges, and I think Trump is just flailing around, and he's got a lot of support from Stephen Miller, who's saying, I use those. He doesn't say black and tans, but that's what they are.

They're black and tans, just as they were in Ireland, when my grandmother told me about them. She encountered them, okay? So these people are being used, And, you know, because the bets are off as to whether Trump will try to use these American forces that have been saved from Asia and Europe on domestic matters in the United States. Before the midterms, after all, they just lost a seat in Texas that has been Republican for three centuries, for God's sake, you know. I mean, the omens are not good. Well, what will he do?

Well, for his own personal safety. As long as he remains president, he's, well, Supreme Court says he's immune from any person. He can shoot that guy on Fifth Avenue and get away with him. So would that be an incentive to stay president? Agreed, agreed. I mean, that opinion is one of the worst in the modern era, in my view.

We've had a lot of horrible Supreme Court opinions, but that's right up there. How is the average American? Let's say Ray McGovern gets to ask, Trump a question in the Oval Office. Mr. President, how is the average American harmed by anything the Iranian government is doing? How can he answer that? Well, you would say they're a threat to our ally, Israel. Any threat to our ally, Israel is a threat to us. I mean, it's ridiculous. George Washington, for God's sake, warned against these kinds of alliances that do not involve two

people with shared objectives. The Israelis have been getting away with murder, witnessed the fact that they kill 32 U.S. Navy sailors on the 8th of June, 2007, witnessed the fact that the U.N., people forget this. In 1967, the U.N. Security Council, Resolution 242, required that Israel withdraw from occupied territories, give them back. It was unanimous. It was the United States also voting for this. That was 1967. What is today? To 2006, Israelis have no respect for the law or the UN, and the U.S. presidents have been kind of dissuaded from carping or even criticizing people like Netanyahu. That's a main problem that we have in this country.

It's always been that way, always, since John Kennedy made a futile attempt to restrain their efforts to get a nuclear weapon. Alistair Crook is of the view that Netanyahu is fearful for Israeli security if the U.S. attacks Iran. Do you agree? Well, he then will should be. I mean, it happened as recently as June, right? Right. Because when Iran got its act together,

and let's remember, it was a treacherous surprise. Whitkoff was supposed to meet with the Iranians two days later, and all of a sudden you have this attack by Israel and then the United States, you know, you don't have to kind of, well, you should remember that after they expended all cheap drones, they sent the hypersonic missiles that did real damage in Israel that we don't know

about because our press or media suppressed it. The Israelis know what happened? They suppressed it too. Do they want that again? You know, it's really a choice between facing a inevitable retaliatory attack by Iran, and they've said it openly now. and I think they would probably do it. They could destroy Israel.

The high irony here, Judge, is that if you want a Palestine from river to the sea, that would do it. Israel would be left burning in ashes and the way would be open for just solution for the Palestinians, finally after 1948. Let's transition over to Ukraine. What role, if any, is the EU playing in the negotiations in Abu Dhabi? None. I mean, they have been shunted aside for months now, Judge. That's one of the big factors here. They have shown themselves inept, and they have promises to Zelensky that they can't fulfill.

Zelensky is pretty much all by himself now. He can't depend on the Europeans. You know, the deal is here that the... The Russians have separated the U.S. from NATO. My God, that's earth-shattering. In other words, NATO can't depend on the U.S. guarantee, Article 5. Let's say Estonia starts as dust up in northern Russia. The United States now have come to their aid.

So NATO has become so fragmented and ineffectual, and it wasn't Putin's doing, for God's sake, was the Europeans themselves. Now, it looks like there is a track for some kind of sensible solution, which will mean trading territory. And who you got doing that? Rubio or Hickson? No, you got people who trade territory. You got real estate people. You got Whitkoff. You got the Koshner. And you also have Demitriov on the Russian side. And as you know, he was there in Miami just over the weekend. What we're doing what? Well, talking to not only Whitkoff and Kushner, but to the, to, what's his name? The Secretary of the Treasury. That's not. Yes, yeah. So, what's going on there? Well, they're thinking of some sort of commercial deal where Zelensky would end up not with zero,

but the Russians would end up with what they want and what they're fought for. And, you know, what, they're not going to give up. No one is suggesting that the Russians are going to make any territorial concessions. Well, I take that back. They have parts of Sumi, they have parts of other ports of Ukraine. They could be traded for parts of other regions that the Russians claim. So there's the makings of a deal there. Now, Rubio, Hex, you know, the gang of four and witnessed the fact that Stephen Miller was in on these most recent talks. There he is, sitting right to the right of Trump. Talking about Ukraine?

Yeah, talking about Ukraine. So, you know, Trump is being very ill-advised, and I just hope that somebody says to him, look, there's one chance you have here to make things better, even with the American people. We're just at a poll, Mr. President. and 87% of the American people think that you should say yes to continuing the limits of the New Star Treaty for another year. Putin's overture his offer to you in September of last year. We think you should say yes.

Trump's silence on this is mystifying and almost unforgivable. Yeah, and there's three days left. Right, right. Now, if he goes ahead anyway and doesn't respond to his says no, then here I am Pucci and his advisor saying, well, my God, you know, I mean, 90%, 87% the American people want him to do this. And we think he may have wanted to do this, but he can't do this. What does that mean for, is he his own man? Can he do anything without the military industrial complex and the deep state saying, no, you can't do that, Mr. Trump?

If this is the case, and we get three more days, I still have harborsome. pure. But if it's three to more days and there's a no or there's no answer from Trump, Putin will draw the necessary conclusions and they will spill over into decisions on Ukraine and everything else that is of any moment. How unrealistic is Zelensky's fantasy about having security guarantees, which means troops on the ground in a post-war Ukraine? Well, it's 100% fantasy. The only good it does is allow people to comment on it and say, oh, my God, look, the U.S. is doing this. Yes, the Russia's, what?

What's this? We don't know anything about that. Did you give us a paper on that? It's crazy. There's not going to be any 100% guarantee. No matter what Solensky says. When he goes up to wherever the Baltic states and he says, yeah, we're 100%. the U.S. is going to guarantee, you just can't believe that stuff because it isn't, if it ever

became true, that would be a part of a final deal and we're months, if not years, away from a final deal. Are CIA and MI6 still on the ground, so to speak, in Ukraine and still advising Ukrainian, well, still locating Russian military targets for Ukrainians, the Ukrainian military to attack? I don't know the answers to that. That's the $64 question. There is no evidence that the U.S. is withholding this guidance material. However, we haven't really seen much since the strike on the state house near Valdai. So it could be that, well, it would be certainly the case that Putin would be saying, look, for God's sake, you know, these people are using the kind of guidance systems that NATO has and that you manufactured. Tell them to knock it off or we'll have Arishniks up to kazzyu descending on Kiev itself.

Here's an interesting clip from President Putin that we just got. but it's from Friday, January 30th, arguing that despite Russian sanctions, Russia is doing quite well in arms sales. What's this? Chris? I'd like to note that over the past period, military technical cooperation was developing under challenging conditions. Western pressure on our partners to freeze or break up their business relations with Russia persisted and even increasingly. However, despite all these attempts, our export contracts have been steadily fulfilled. Over the past year, Russian military products have been supplied to more than 30 countries worldwide, and the foreign exchange revenue exceeded $15 billion.

Such results provide an additional opportunity to direct funds towards modernizing defense industry enterprises, their expanding production capacities, and promising scientific research. Is that significant? Of course it is. I mean, they have a laboratory. It's called Ukraine. We have the best and the brightest weapons and mines in the western side, and they're losing. They have no counter for what the Russians are doing. They're running out of ammunition. Not the Russians, by the way. As the National Intelligence Director told the President back on the Biden, the Russians are not running out of ammunition. It's NATO that's run out of ammunition. And the U.S. are saying, no, we don't have

any more in our own stocks, but we'll produce them in a couple of years and we'll sell them for money. And the Europeans, they don't have any money, but it's a whole, it's so feckless when you look at it in its various aspects. So, no, the Russians have shown that they have weaponry here, that the advertised as far back as 2016, they've developed, them. They cannot be defended against. One of them has a nuclear reactor powering this missile. First time ever, okay? Another one goes around the South Pole. And, you know, for the U.S. to think that they can do a, well, not an iron dome, that didn't work in Israel. How about a golden, yeah, we're going to be a Dolan dome. This is crazy. It'll never work. We told Reagan that back in

1971, Reagan back in 19 later, but we told Nixon and Kissinger, ABMs would never work, and the Russians stopped working on an ABM system. So, you know, there will be an arms race. There are lots of money there, but Putin can only conclude that it is the arms profiteers that are driving policy here. They don't want to limit the limits. They only stay with the limits on new start. They already have billions ready to spend, maybe a trillion, for effectless, I'm sorry, not a Iron Dome. It's going to be a golden dome this time. Give me a break.

It'll never work, but will enrich the people in the top 1%. You're in the top 1% in my book, Mr. McGovern. Thank you very much. Great conversation, as always, Ray. We've covered all the topics that you and I. talked about or emailed about that we wanted to hit. Have a great week. We'll look forward to seeing you with Larry on Friday afternoon. Thanks, Judge. Thank you. All the best. The aforementioned Larry, Larry Johnson at 1130 this

morning and at 2 o'clock this afternoon, former FBI agent Colleen Rowley on the ICE lawlessness in Minneapolis. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.