Judging Freedom - Ray McGovern (fmr CIA Intel): Can Hamas resist the IDF?

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

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Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, November 6th, 2023. Ray McGovern will be with us in just a minute. And I will ask him, what is Joe Biden's endgame in Gaza? And what are the strategic realities between the United States and Russia? But first this. Judge Napolitano here. The world is falling apart and the government wants to spend money to try and save it. The Israelis are defending themselves from the greatest onslaught in their history. Ukraine is collapsing. We are trying to fund both on borrowed money and borrowed time. The Federal Reserve keeps raising interest rates so everything

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Call today, 800-511-4620, learjudgenap.com. When you talk to them, tell them the judge sent you. Hi, Ray. Welcome here, my dear friend. No matter what we talk about, it's always a pleasure. I want to start with Russia today before we get to Israel and Hamas because of some things that popped up in Russia today and on NBC News and elsewhere over the weekend. Is Russia warning the United States, not Ukraine, but the United States, to stop playing with strategic fire? It is, in my opinion, Judge. What we have over the weekend are a couple of statements by

Patrushev, who is the equivalent, well, comparisons are invidious. He's a national security advisor. His counterpart, let's say, is Jacob Sullivan in our country. Now, he spoke out in two ways. In one way, he says, you know, for the first time in history, we have an advantage in terms of the weaponry we can use in the strategic equation. Is he right about that? Yes, he is. Do the Russians have things we don't have? Yes, they have hypersonic missiles, much less supersonic missiles. So what is he saying? He's saying, look, you know, we have an advantage, at least insofar as Ukraine is concerned, and even the Middle East, we can have these weapons and we use them in Ukraine, you can see

how accurate, how devastating they are. They have nuclear warheads on them. So don't even think of a mini nuke sort of use to salvage a complete loss in Ukraine. Now, why is he saying all this? Well, because the loss in Ukraine is going to be so obvious that Biden's not going to be able to do anything about it unless or until he listens to these innocent people about strategic equation. Well, let's use a little mini nuke, okay? And what Patrushev and what the National Security Council in Moscow is trying to say, don't even think about that. Do these make a difference? That's the big question. In the strategic equation, these minor advantages that the Russians have do not matter. The triad, the submarines, the bombers, and the

ICBMs still are an effective deterrent. So what does this mean? This simply means that even though the strategic balance remains the same, the Russians have a theater, they have a regional advantage in terms of these Kinzhal missiles that are so accurate, and that, well, that have already been tried and tested in Ukraine. So I'm going to guess, Chris, you can put that full screen up. I'm going to guess that this from Russia Today and in Newsweek is what prompted the comments by Jake Sullivan's opposite number. New U.S. bomb could kill 300,000 in Moscow. I don't know why the American government releases that, but it did.

Maybe it leaked out. Maybe they use it for strategic or diplomatic or negotiating purposes, whatever. But I'm going to guess that it is this horrific revelation that prompted the Russians to say, you don't know what you're talking about. We have more than you do. Do I have that right? You do, Judge. And I've talked to the specialists whom I trust and with whom I'm still in contact. They tell me that 300,000 killed in Moscow is a low estimate. They're only talking about blasts and other radioactive effects. The fire that would ensue would consume

far more than 300,000. So what's the point here? The point here is that the U.S. is working on strategic weaponry of even more power and even more strength and accuracy. What for? And that's what the Russian generals are asking. What are these guys up to? Why do they want to try to create a first strike capability when they know that with our bombers and submarines, they'll never escape immediate retaliation? Well, they can't guess about that. It's sort of here's an analogy. The Russians and the U.S. are playing in a bathtub full of gasoline, okay? And the Russians, the U.S. is saying, yeah, we have a far better cigarette lighter than you do. Hello? Wow.

This may segue us into the other topic, but you stick on this if you want. Antiwar.com is reporting this morning that a member of Prime Minister Netanyahu's cabinet toyed publicly yesterday with the idea of using a nuclear weapon in Gaza. you know, a horrific, horrific suggestion. Do the Israelis finally admit publicly that they have nuclear weapons? I mean, the whole world, West and East, UN and non-UN knows they have it, but they've never admitted it. Is this an admission if this report is accurate? Well, it's open knowledge that they have nuclear weapons. Colin Powell has said it publicly. Even some Israeli high officials have acknowledged it. The problem is they can't acknowledge it officially. Do you know why, Judge? Why? Because that means on the U.S. legislation, they're cut off from all military from the United States. Any country that develops a nuclear potential outside of the nonproliferation regime, which of course Israel is outside this regime, is by our legislation forbidden

or getting military aid from our country. So it's a rhetorical device. That legislation is a fiction. Everybody in the American government that is knowledgeable about these things knows what Israel has. How powerful are their nuclear weapons? Are they the type of thing that the U.S. is boasting about and Russia is boasting about, or are they smaller, more low yield? I don't know, and it's altogether possible that the U.S. strategic planners don't know. There are between 90 and 200 of them, nuclear weapons in Israel, according to the best figures I can come up with. So would they use them? Well, this is never really adverted to.

I mean, nobody discusses this. Larry Johnson discussed this recently, but nobody else. Now, what does that mean? That means that Israel has a deterrent, okay? And Hezbollah, Iran, Turkey, the Arab countries, they know that. So they're going to play this very, very safe because there's no indication at all that if push came to shove, that Netanyahu and the crazies that advise him might resort to use of these nuclear weapons rather than lose. Israel is the size of New Jersey. Gaza is the size of Manhattan and most of the Bronx.

You can't control where nuclear radiation is going. It's one thing for them to kill their own people in the morning after October 7th when they claim they're trying to kill Hamas. It's another thing for them to set up a nuclear device that they know will bring the radiation over to their land. their land well it's just uh disheartening they have they do have the small nuclear weapons that the crazy in netanyahu's government who has now been silenced uh uh he said that they should use it in gaza which suggests to me that they have small tactical nuclear weapons that they think they could get away with. I wouldn't second guess that. I imagine they do. And this guy just went beyond what publicly should be said by Israeli officials. Antiwar.com also reports 330 IDF members killed in street fighting in Gaza, a much smaller number than what the IDF itself and Prime Minister Netanyahu's government are revealing. Is that significant, 330 in a military of

350,000? Well, they're going in full bore now. I don't think they anticipated how much resistance Hamas can put up. So I don't know. 350 sounds significant to me, especially if Israeli citizens are getting that news. After all, their armed forces are populated mostly by reservists with little training, and reservists have a way of dying quicker than professional soldiers. What do you think, if he could articulate it, Joe Biden would say his endgame is with respect to Israeli versus Hamas? I mean, he has said many, many times, full-throated, unequivocal support for Israel, no matter what they do, no matter what it takes. At the same time, he said, well, we need to cease fire because we've got to get humanitarian aid in there. We want to give medicine to the people that we've helped Israel wound and bury the people we've helped Israel kill. It's almost absurd. But what is his real endgame here?

Well, Biden is not accomplishmentist. He listens to Blinken and Sullivan. It's what they decide that counts, okay? Now, Biden hopefully was in the White House when those hundreds of thousands of demonstrators did demonstrate over the weekend. So he's got to be sort of generally aware of what's going on, but he's relying on Blinken. Now, Blinken is the archetypical innocent abroad. He goes to Netanyahu, Netanyahu thumbs his finger at him and says,

no, no, we don't want to, now get this, Judge, we don't want a humanitarian pause in the genocide. Now, humanitarian pause in the genocide. Now, he didn't say genocide, of course, but it's a textbook case of genocide openly admitted by Israeli leaders. So what does this remind me of? This reminds me of another innocent abroad, come from the same good schools and from the same well-polished heels. His name was John Kerry, okay? He worked with Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, for 11 months to put in a ceasefire in Syria. And when he got back and the whole thing fell apart because the U.S. military sabotaged it, what did he say? Well, Steve Clemons, bless his soul, asked Kerry at an Atlantic Council meeting

about what was going on here. And what did Kerry say? Kerry said this. Syria is so complicated. It's as complicated as anything I've ever had in my public life, in the sense that there are probably six wars going on at the same time. Kurd against Kurd, Kurd against Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sunni, Shia, everybody against ISIL, people against Assad, Nasrallah.

This is a mixed-up sectarian and civil war and strategic proxy. So it's very, very difficult. Get this now. So it's very, very difficult to be able to align all the forces. And Steve Clements says, now, Mr. Secretary, in the middle of all that, what made you think you could get a ceasefire? What I'm saying is here, these guys think they're exceptional. They think they're indispensable. And so it's a rude shock when they go abroad innocently and find out that the Arabs and the Turks and the Iranians and even the Israelis won't listen to them.

Does anybody in the international community accept as being serious and honest Prime Minister Netanyahu's claim that the civilian deaths are just the price or the cost of war? Well, no one in any sense of, that has a sense of justice or proportionality. The Israelis have been so blatant, so full of, pardon the word, chutzpah, that they've given themselves a real black eye in the international scene. And as we've said many times on this show, the balance of power has shifted against the United States. It's just that Tony Blinken and Jake Sullivan just don't realize it still. They tell Austin what to do with Nuland in the background, Biden just listening to them. Well, maybe Tony could do something this time when Biden gave the star away as soon as he visited Israel, saying that we're with you 110% of the equivalent.

It's really bizarre. Here's Senator Joe Manchin. Chris, play both clips. First is he's questioning both Secretaries Austin and Blinken, but he's zeroing in on Austin. The first question is, do we have enough ammunition for our own use or have we given all of it away to Ukraine and Israel? The second question is, can Israel and Ukraine possibly survive without U.S. military assistance? Next of all, it brings me to the munitions, I know it's been asked about what we can produce. Is the United States running a risk maybe not having enough to defend ourself if we're pulled into any of these battles because of

what we're basically producing? Are we producing enough here with the trusted allies and ourself producing enough ammunition to defend our own homeland and help our allies too? Thanks, Senator. The first order of business for us is to make sure that we have the capability required to defend our nation and protect our interests. And then above and beyond that, we can – SECRETARY POMPEO What do you think we're producing enough? We're ramping up. I know we're trying to.

SECRETARY POMPEO Yes, we are ramping up. But, you know, if it was if we had to only resource ourselves. Yes. But but we're at a point in time where we're resourcing allies and partners like Ukraine and Israel. And it's going to require. I'm just asking the question because people are asking me, are we running ourself critically low on our own volume of what we need in our own basically inventory? Or are we basically overproducing or can we produce enough? Or are we supplying more than what we can produce to backfill? We know that Ukraine can't succeed without U.S. support. Can Israel succeed without U.S. support?

Yes or no very quickly on that. Either one. That's correct. My assessment is that if the United States does not continue to support Ukraine, they will not succeed. Right. But can Israel without our support? That's right. Can Israel make it without our support? I think no. I think we have to continue to support them. I'm just asking you questions that people are asking me. So they're saying, well, we've been giving $3 billion, and Israel is very advanced. Ukraine was not.

We had to bring them up to speed, be able to fight their fight, and we're committed there. And Secretary Blinken? I would simply say that on the one hand, Israel prides itself in being able to defend itself by itself. But a critical function of its ability to do that is the support that we provide, including through the Memorandum of Understanding that was negotiated by the Obama administration to give Israel the support. The support is not only justified but needed. You're saying it would be hard to take on all the fronts we're taking on without our support. You know, you can almost call him St. Joe Manchin. What patience in the face of obfuscation and refusal to answer questions.

Well, Judge Austin naively answered it. He said, neither Ukraine nor Israel can survive without our weapons support. Now, that identifies Israel in a military way with the United States that is very akin to a national, a defense treaty, which does not exist between the U.S. and Israel. Now, just a word about why there's no defense treaty between Israel and the United States. After the 1973 debacle, Kissinger, and I know this personally, Kissinger said, hey, let's do a defense treaty with Israel. That way the Arabs will never, never dare to attack Israel. And they went to the Israelis. I know several people who were involved here.

And they said, look, how about a defense treaty? And the Israelis said, oh, isn't that sweet? Actually, thanks, but no thanks. Now, why? Israel doesn't want to ask permission when they hit off against some other country. That's required in a mutual defense treaty. They like it just the way it is, and that's the way it remains. They have the equivalent, listen to Blinken, for example, of a mutual defense treaty. They have the equivalent of a defense treaty, a military defense treaty, listen to Austin, and that's for the whole world to see that Israel and Ukraine could not continue to sacrifice people on the battlefield without Gaza, special forces, SEALs, the type of people that the American military trains to send into a situation like what's going on in Gaza?

I hate to say this, Judge, but I quote my Irish grandmother, they're all dead now. All my sources at the CIA are all- You mean your sources are dead. You don't mean the special forces that went in there are dead. No, I mean my sources are dead. Now, Larry Johnson, who's a generation after me, has really good sources. So does Colonel McGregor, of course. But I have to admit right off the bat that my good friends that I could rely on, especially on these kinds of things, well, they're all dead now, as my grandmother would say. Okay. God rest their souls and your grandmother's souls. Ray, thank you very much for your time. You are so good at discussing such awful things in such a way that we can all understand

and appreciate it we'll see you at the end of the week in our intelligence roundtable with larry johnson thank you ray thank you judge of course and the aforesaid larry johnson coming up at 11 o'clock this morning eastern time Time. And at 3.30 this afternoon, the aforesaid Colonel Douglas McGregor, Eastern Time as well. Judge Napolitano. Oh, and we're up to 228,000 subscriptions. We will hit a quarter of a million by Christmas. We'll hit it before Christmas. I'm doing this because my hands are over my heart to thank you for your continued faith in and loyalty to the program. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.