Judging Freedom - Ray McGovern: Is Trump a Tyrant?

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Ray McGovern: Is Trump a Tyrant?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

you Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, June 16th, 2025. Ray McGovern will be here with us in just a moment on is Trump a tyrant? Does he know what he's doing? What did he know about the Israeli attack on Iran and when did he know it? But first this. While the markets are giving us whiplash, have you seen the price of gold? It's soaring. In the past 12 months, gold has risen to more than $3,000 an ounce. I'm so glad I bought my gold, it's not too late for you to buy yours. The same experts that predicted gold at $3,200 an ounce now predict gold at $4,500 or more in the next year. What's driving the price higher? Paper currencies. All around the world they are falling in value. Big money is in panic as falling currencies shrink the value of their paper wealth. That's why big banks and billionaires

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But before we do, Veterans for Peace, why were they marching on Saturday? They were marching for two reasons. The fact that the oppression in Los Angeles is including our former colleagues in the Marines and in the National Guard in repursing our own people. And the other thing, of course, was Iran and the Israeli attack on Iran Our veterans including myself know a little bit about what war is like So both in New York and in Washington we mounted Activities and not just rhetoric and I have to say I'm very proud of my colleagues I was sorry not to be able to join them Last month in

Saudi Arabia Uh president trunk trump Denounced neocons condemned western military intervention In the middle east and proclaimed himself the president of peace Was all about a ruse? Well, I don't know who slipped that into his speech, Judge,

but that was idiosyncratic. The NAO cons are still exerting a primary influence here. The question is whether there will be resentment now at Trump having been double-crossed by Netanyahu and by the Naokans. You know, this whole notion that Trump was informed beforehand, well, I have some experience with what the Israelis do when they launch an attack on all Egypt or Syria or some other country. They do not ask for permission.

They ask for forgiveness after the fact. I have no reason to think that this was not the case this time. How do you explain? How do you explain Trump being so vociferous on Friday morning with Dana Bash and the others? Ha ha, excellent, excellent. We're winning. I knew about this, of course. Well, I explained it

by saying, my God, he thought Israel had won. He had been told, oh, hey, President, remember all those highly valued air defense systems that Russia gave Iran? We shot them down, for God's sake. We shot them down, and Israel has free reign to bomb the hell out of you We're we're one this one That was the atmosphere early on Friday morning And so he's saying these things on truth bash and truth truth social as well as bash Did you know about it? Well, I don't think he did but you know, who knows exactly what he knew Israelis don't think he did, but you know, who knows exactly what he knew. The Israelis don't ask for permission.

They always like to ask for forgiveness. And they were winning. And Trump was jumping on the bandwagon, in my view. Is it likely that a attack of this nature that took 18 months to plan would have involved MI6 and CIA, as well as Mossad and other Israeli elements? Of course, Judge, these contingency plans always are in vogue and working. Problem is the timing.

Now, you know, people say that this was a real clever subterfuge by Trump. I don't know. Would he say prospects are pretty good for the negotiations the day before? Would he express some hope that this is all going to work out so the day before? Would he say, we're going to negotiations on Sunday,

two days before? I don't know, but I don't think so. I think he was mousetrap and he was delighted to be mousetrap because he thought that Israel had won now. Look what happened after Friday, Saturday, Saturday morning. Puchin calls Trump. My God, Puchin calls Trump? Yeah, that's the new element, by the way. That's a salutary factor the two top

leaders are talking. Now, what did Trump say about Putin's call? Well, here's truth social. President Putin called me earlier this morning, very nicely wished me a happy birthday, but more importantly, talk at length about Iran, a country he knows quite well. Okay, I will talk about Ukraine next week. Less, less sentence. He feels Putin feels as I do. This war in Israel, Iran should end to which I explained his war should also end the one in Ukraine. Now, more important was the Russian readout.

And this is really interesting, Judge. The conversation was substantive, sincere, and very useful. The main thing, very useful, says Ushakov, Putin's man on this, who gave the readout. Vladimir Putin denounced Israel's military operation, but then he reminded that there were Russian mediation offers in the offing, and that the current escalation needs specific steps to meet mutually agreeable agreements so there's no escalation. Putin reminded Trump that prior to the current escalation, we Russians had proposed specific steps intended to reach mutually acceptable agreements.

Well, what was that? Yeah, the Russia said, well, it's like the enriched uranium. We'll keep it safe. It's very easy to deal with this. This was not about uranium enrichment. This was about regime change. And the Russians know it quite well. Agreed.

Last thing I'll say here. Everything you've just said is consistent with the dissipation of the Israeli euphoria on Friday, the profound dissipation of the euphoria. I do want to run a clip though. Yeah, let me just finish a judgment, the key sentence here at the end of this statement by Ushakov, both leaders, Trump and Putin,

express satisfaction with the established personal relations that make it possible to communicate sincerely and in a business-like mode. Search for resolution of pressing issues. Now, that's new. Sincerely, you have to know the rubrics here. When the Russians talk about sincerity, this means something. Otherwise, they talk about candor or frankness or whatever. But the Russians are giving Trump the benefit of that, a living humble way out. Not only the Russians, but the Chinese have expressed the willingness to mediate. So if Trump is smart enough, he'll grab at that, I don't know if he's smart enough or can face down the neocons.

I suppose it depends on who he's listening to, the neocons or the, if there's any America firsters left in his circle. Here's Prime Minister Netanyahu yesterday claiming he told Trump about this ahead of time. I mean the two of them are both inveterate liars so who knows what to believe but we'll listen. Chris, cut number seven. When did you tell President Trump you were going to launch these strikes? Look I've been in constant contact with President Trump. We've known each other for many years and obviously we informed our American friends and President Trump, we've known each other for many years. And obviously we informed our American friends and President Trump, our

great friend ahead of time. Now we did, he knew about it, of course. He knew about it. Uh, of course. Uh, I guess he didn't tell his secretary of state Marco Rubio. That is the nominal and de facto Secretary of State, who of course posted on social media that the United States knew nothing about it

and had nothing to do with the planning. Seems to have come from Alastair earlier today and I gather from you as well and we'll hear from others throughout the day, Larry's on in an hour and a half, that Iran's response has been more terrifying and catastrophic than the Israelis even told their own people and that Iran's air defenses have not been substantially degraded nor has their offensive weaponry. That's very clear, Judge, and the proof is in the pudding.

Trump listened to Putin. He said, yeah, okay, if you want to mediate, that's good. Actually, Russian media yesterday said, Trump said he had no problem with Russian mediation here. So, yeah, the tide has changed. Israel cannot prevail without US support. Radiation here. So Yeah, the tide has changed Israel cannot prevail without us support. That's why you have met in yow and Dana Bash and everybody else said oh You know all about it. So he's gonna keep supporting them or else. He's a renegade and a coward So the pressure is on Trump, but you know, I kind of think there's a better than even chance they'll say, you know, I hate being mousetrapped.

I don't know if I'm going to be dragged. I think the Russians and the Chinese may be able to work something out because they have a big, big stake in the oil. And in the fact that Iran is right next to Russia there, they don't want an atomic explosion or a nuclear explosion in the fallout going through the past Caspian Sea up into the... I mean, the nuclear issue is key here. Nobody mentions it, but I don't put it past Netanyahu in dire straits, in extremis, as

we say, to resort to nuclear weapons. Why does anybody call attention to that? That's what I think is motivating the Russians and the Chinese. Is it your view that Trump's snub of Netanyahu when he went to the Middle East was a stunt? That the leaked information from the White House that Trump was angry with Netanyahu was a stunt. All of this, that Trump's statements two days before the attack were looking forward to the next round of negotiation was a stunt. The Witkoff saying, yes, they can have enrichment, no, they can't, yes, they can, no, they can't was a stunt. That all of this was part of American plotting and planning

to deceive and lull the Iranians into a false sense of security so that Netanyahu could attack during that false sense of security. I know that's the general feeling out there, Judge, but that assumes that Trump is really clever and that the neocons really don't have such a hold on him. I don't think, you know, what Witkoff said to the Jewish group there was just so outlandish just a couple days before all this went down, and it looked like they were preparing. The Russians said, you know, you ought to go ahead, go to Oman and see if you can meet with the Iranians. Of course, the Iranians would be under these circumstances, but the negotiations are now

being propounded by the Russians and by the Chinese. You know, what worries me most is this. The Shiites in Iraq, predominant majority, are really ticked off now. Their government has said, US, get the hell out of our country finally, would you please, like you agreed to several years ago. And I'm afraid that whether a Shiite in his, uh, in his own interests, or whether Israeli agents in the Shiites will take off after an American base up in Northern Iraq or Northern Syria and a false flag attack and say, look, your American troops have been killed five of them. Okay. And it was done by the Iranian sponsored terrorists

You can't get out of this now. That's what I fear right now Israel is a dire straits of false flag attack is more than likely it seems to me well, here's Dana Bash from CNN apparently she was given a telephone interview with the president over the weekend Which she was not permitted to know or it was Friday morning Very early Friday morning. That's important. Okay, whenever it was she had this interview with him and then she She called

Into CNN to recount from her memory and her notes what he told her. Here's a portion of what she said, particularly the last few lines which turned Alistair's stomach. Chris, cut number 12. Then he went on to say this, Iran should have listened to me when I said, I don't know if you know this, but I gave them a 60-day warning. And today is day 61.

And then he said, they, meaning Iran, should now come to the table to make a deal before it's too late. And then he said something really noteworthy. He said, the people I was dealing with are dead, the hardliners, to which I just wanted to underscore. So what you're saying is Israel has now killed the people who you were dealing with. And he said very sarcastically, they didn't die of the flu. They didn't die of COVID. Does any of this surprise you?

Well, it turns my stomach to Trump, but one must remember that this was the heyday. This is when Iranian air defense forces had been not working for we later learned eight hours. Okay, right. Israel was winning, right. And so the truth said the same thing on truth. on truth, Trump said the same thing on truth social at exactly the same time that he gave Dina Besh a special interview. So it was this heady atmosphere that Israel was winning, whether they told us or not. I mean, how embarrassing would it be for me, Trump to say, well, this beats the hell out of me, the Israelis have tactically, I mean, he didn't have the option of saying, no, I didn't know anything about it. Now the whole thing has changed. Okay. Now it's very clear that Iran is winning. Okay, and oil, oil terminals in Israel, not to mention nuclear facilities are being hit by hypersonic missiles that cannot be defended against. So Puchin is offering on on

Saturday morning, right? He's offering Trump a way out here. Look, let us let us be mediators. And Trump the next day, yesterday, says, I have no problem with Russia being mediators and the Chinese as well. So this is, there is a chance that if the Chinese and the Russians talk sense into Trump, you'll see that this is not a win-win for him. This is a lose-lose unless he comes to terms with the fact that, yeah, they got those air defense facilities up right quick, and now it's Israeli air defense facilities that are being obliterated. Do we know how much damage the Israelis caused? Did they in fact, as they claim, penetrate the nuclear enrichment facilities? I don't know, Judge, but I'm told that Forte, though, where they have the real centrifuges and all, is a half mile down into a mountain.

Okay? Now, if that's half mile, now if that's true, there are only certain weapons that the US might try to use to get at those. I don't think these mother of all bombs are going to be given to Israel. And nuclear weapons could do it too, but my God, the US is not going to do that first. I hope will Israel do that first. I just don't know. Here's a guy doing genocide in Gaza. Here's a guy that I think mousetrapped our president. Here's a guy that I think mousetrapped our president. Here's a guy that does all kinds of things without warning. He has, this is another thing that hasn't been emphasized,

two days before he did this, he almost lost the no confidence vote in the Knesset and he would have been out and he and his wife would have probably ended up in jail. Now, do I impute that kind of motive to to Netanyahu? Yeah, I do. Of course. Yeah. All the bets are off.

And the nuclear thing is big. Do you believe that Netanyahu asked Trump for permission to assassinate the Ayatollah, which is what they've leaked this morning and Trump said no? No, I don't. I don't. I haven't. I don't have to see the sourcing on that. I don't think it sounds plausible to me at first blush. Right. Right.

And I wonder where it goes from here. Alistair again quoted that a retired Israeli general is saying we will be begging for them to stop and they won't. Does he mean the Israelis to stop and is rare? A retired Israeli general saying we will soon be begging the Iranians to stop attacking us and they won't. Well, he's got that right. Uh, look, the Iranians have the upper hand. They have all kinds of advantages. The size of the Iran, 90 million people, the size of the territory there. They can't lose against Israel in a protracted war. Israel is going to run out of things before Iran does. And Iran has pretty much a support from not only Russia, China, but India. Okay.

Now, and Pakistan, which has nuclear weapons. So, you know, if, if, if Netanyahu is smart and Trump gets some smarts, he's going to say, look, you know, it was a really neat thing there on Thursday and I was so elated that I gave those big comments, but forget about it now, make a deal. I can help you make a deal and the Russians and the Chinese have already said that that helped and I have nothing against that, says Trump.

Colonel McGregor reports that numerous Mossad agents have been arrested in Iran by the Iranian intelligence services. Can't be a good thing for Mossad. Well, you know, they were bragging. I mean, a lot of those so-called rocket attacks or missile attacks from Israel into Iran, they were disguised. They were actually agent bombs, car bombs, and stuff like that represented as airstrikes. This was after the air defenses got back up. So, yeah, Mossad is deeply involved in all this, of course, and won't be hard to trace who was where at what time. And you know, Masada is used to taking losses like this. I don't think it will

impede them in any way. We started this conversation by asking you about Veterans for Peace and Marching. Here is a non-veteran who happens to be an eye surgeon. He's also the junior senator from Kentucky who has a very interesting observation about President Trump's parade, Senator Rand Paul, press cut number 11. You know, I'm all for the president appearing

and doing enlistment ceremonies at military bases. I've been with the president at Dover to receive home our dead soldiers and so those who have been killed in action and to mourn their loss. But I just never liked the idea of the parade because I grew up in the 70s and 80s and the only parades I can remember are Soviet parades for the most part or North Korean parades. The parades I remember from our history were different. Everybody remembers that famous scene of the soldier dipping the girl and kissing the girl in New York

in a ticker tape parade. But we were rejoicing the end of war, and we were rejoicing our soldiers coming home. And that absolutely ought to be commemorated and discussed every year, Memorial Day, Veterans Day. But we never glorified weapons so much and I know he means well, I don't think he means for any of this to be depicted in another fashion, but I'm just not a big fan.

Then there is the cost, I mean we're two trillion dollars in the hole and just an additional cost like this, I just just I'm not for it. Oh well it's a parade. We spent 50 million dollars on it's history. He got his moment in the sun and we'll probably want to do it in another year when he turns 80. You know Judge that reminds me of something that probably most people have not heard, but it's a true story. At the very end of World War II, after the Russians had lost 27 million people, they paraded the German soldiers up into the city. I forget which city it was. And these young kids, they're hungry, they're tired, and they stop the platoon and just let the crowd all gather around them.

And there was hate around. And a Russian babushka, an old grandmother, went up to one of the young 16-year-old German soldiers and gave him a piece of bread and some of the things that she had there. It changed the whole tone of the thing. It was a human, human gesture. And the onlookers, yeah, yeah, they still had a bit of hatred in their eyes, but say, look, let's be human to these guys. And I say that parades need to be human. And that was the, just the opposite of the chest thumping that we all witnessed yesterday.

Thank you, Ray. Thanks very much for your time. We'll look forward to seeing you with Larry Johnson at the Intelligence Community Roundtable on Friday. All the best, my friend. You're most welcome, Judge. Thank you. And the aforementioned Larry Johnson will be here at 1.30, excuse me, at 11.30, his

usual time, 11.30, at 1 o'clock Scott Ritter, at 2 o'clock Professor Saeed Mohammed Mirandi from Tehran. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. MUSIC