Judging Freedom - Ray McGovern: LIVE From Moscow!

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Ray McGovern: LIVE From Moscow!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

you Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, April 28th, 2025. Ray McGovern will be here with us in a moment live from Moscow. But first this. While the markets are giving us whiplash, have you seen the price of gold? It's soaring. In the past 12 months, gold has risen to more than $3,000 an ounce. I'm so glad I bought my gold.

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They'll keep buying and gold will keep rising. So do what I did call my friends at Lear Capital You'll have a great conversation and they'll send you very helpful information. Learn how you can store gold in your IRA tax and penalty free or have it sent directly to your doorstep. There's zero pressure to buy and you have a 100% risk free purchase guarantee. It's time to see if gold is right for you. Call 800-511-4620, 800-511-4620, or go to learjudgenap.com and tell them your friend the judge sent you. Ray McGovern, welcome here. Welcome from Moscow. Before we get to your trip to Moscow and your perception of the Muscovite view of Donald

Trump and Marco Rubio and Steve Witkoff, were you surprised that no representatives of the Israeli government attended the funeral of Pope Francis? I guess I was a little surprised. I mean, what are they trying to tell the world that they're really, you know, that they really are exceptional, so to speak? I don't think it made any good sense. And I think most Israeli diplomats are complaining about it. So, yeah, it was a mistake, but just the procedure of one

what reflects was the kind of hubris, what a kind of offensive attitudes that these really have to international fora like that. Would, would Mossad have been there? Or is that a silly question because Mossad is everywhere? You answered the question, judge. Yeah, sure, they would have somebody there. There was one picture of the president with Zelensky, and I don't know if you saw the ostensible Monsignor behind them, but that was Tulsi Gabbard. Be the first to know that she was able to overhear what Trump was telling to Zelensky. I make a joke, I should make that

clear. There is the Monsignor there, but that is not Tulsi Gabbard dressed in Monsignorial garb. Okay, you're the first to know. Now look, it looks like Trump is hearing Zelensky's confession, Judge. I don't know, maybe there is a chance there'll be a detente between the US and the US. Trump as I do, it is dangerous to have him one on one because his memory of what was discussed is, I'm sure will not be consistent with President Zelensky

and may not even be consistent with reality. So, but it can't hurt to have those kinds of conversations. How, yeah, there's another view. Boy, that one really looks like he's going to confession. We know they're not going to confession. Neither of them is Catholic, but they happen to be in St. Peter's Basilica. I mean, this is a photograph that will be viewed for centuries in the manner, no matter how the current crisis and how serious is the push to dump Pete

Hegseth as a secretary of defense and who or what is behind the push? Judge, just a mystery to me. I really would prefer not to comment on that. I haven't been able to keep up on that. So I'll just say I don't know and that will be an honest answer. Okay. Does Trump want peace? I'm sorry? Peace? Yeah, he does. That's a good news. Yeah. I mean, he has chided Vladimir Putin, stopped Vladimir about bombing Kiev, at the same time he's bombing civilian targets in Yemen. Well, you know, Peskov said just I guess it was today. Yeah, we heard what the president wrote on through social.

Look, we're doing this secretly. There's no place for diplomacy being done out in social media. They take this in stride. The real deal here, as I've said for a while now, is Witkoff. Now, Witkoff is achieving some success and there are a lot of people kind of moaning and groaning about that. It reminds me of when I was at the embassy here in Moscow in 1972. Why? Well, because Kissinger was a one-man act. He would come into Moscow. He wouldn't even tell Ambassador Jacob Beam. And on his way out through Helsinki, he'd give him a call and he'd say,

oh, by the way, I met with Berkshire for Kosygin and then ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. And then Beam would tell us in the bubble in the embassy. And when people were grouse about it, he said, look, look, you know, we just do our job here. We don't actually know exactly what's happened, but that's okay, do your job. And then I went to the men's room in the political section of the embassy. And then on the back of the wall there was inscribed,

Kissinger was here. No. No. No. No. All right, he was there. That was inscribed. because this guy has the trust of you and Putin. And you know, that's the way it's worked out here. And so far- It might have been better if, might have been better if Mr. Witkoff was with the president and President Zelensky at St. Peter's Basilica for the reasons I articulated.

Here's foreign minister Lavrov yesterday on the face of the nation being asked if Russia will continue targeting Kiev not withstanding President Trump's statement on truth social. Chris, cut number seven. Will Russia continue targeting Kiev despite President Trump saying Vladimir stop? You're not listening to me. We will continue to target the sites used by the military of Ukraine, by some mercenaries from foreign countries, and by instructors whom the Europeans officially sent to help

target Russian civilian sites. You know, he was very diplomatic because he knows that some of those mercenaries and some of those instructors are from the United States. Indeed, and you know, Putin made a very big announcement on Saturday saying, look, we're finished in Kursk, we've mopped them all up. Now we're free to go ahead and give the Ukrainians a real razzgrom, a real defeat along the line that we've been fighting gradually forever. So that was a very religious announcement. He had a report from Valeri Krasimov, and they were talking about, okay, now we're one in course, now we're going to turn our attention.

There's no slackening in the pace of the Russian offensive. And I think they're keeping the pressure on. After all, what better evidence that Putin has the stronger hand here. And I think this is an incentive for Trump to move quickly and get Zelensky in order or replace him before too much more territory is seized by the Russians. Is the effort to repel the Ukrainians from Kursk now successful and complete? Putin says it is.

I take him out his word. He also said, or so Gerasimov said, that there are stragglers, there are people trying to put up some resistance, but it's all over. And they were crack troops. And I think if memory serves that Putin said there were 77,000 Ukrainian troops, most of them highly qualified, put out of action, that means killed or wounded. That's big. These were the best troops they had. They have nothing left in terms of reserves to protect the rest of Ukraine. Puchy now has free fall to go through all the way to the Dnieper River. You know, Judge, before we leave Lavrov, I just want to say that I

found what he said to Margaret Brennan in another sense, most interesting. What he said when she asked about progress, yeah, there are several signs we're moving in the right direction. But first and foremost, says Lavrov, I copied this down, President Trump is probably the only leader on earth to recognize the core interests of Russia in Ukraine when he said, this was a huge mistake by Biden and the others to try to get Ukraine and NATO.

So Trump is probably the only leader on Earth. Yeah, he probably is. But that's the guy that Putin has to deal with. And they can deal on that basis once Trump understands, as he said two months ago, I kind of understand where Putin is coming from with this great NATO armed army oninus border during that thousand kilometer borders with Ukraine. I understand that. I wouldn't want that either, in so many words. So I see real progress here. And I feel like, you know, this is sort of deja vu for me, because I was here in 1972. And I see this, well, hopefully not as a bookend, but as a bookbarker, okay? There was detente in the air, then there is detente, there is Ravkorsk, the air now, as

long as... I'm going to ask you about the air now in just a minute, but here's Lavrov talking about Korsk to Margaret Brennan. Chris, cut number eight. If you take a look at the situation in the Kursk region of Russia, for example, there is no single military target for the last six months which the Ukrainians would fire at. And there was also a proposal by President Trump immediately support President Putin to have a one month moratorium on the attacks on energy infrastructure.

Right. That's expired. We've never violated this commitment of President Putin. And Ukrainians violated what Zelensky seemed to support several hundred times. And I sent to Marco Rubio and to the United Nations the list of those attacks. It's really very, very telling and eloquent. There you have it. There's a new ceasefire, Judge, just announced by Putin himself from the 8th to the 11th of May,

not in honor of my presence here, but in honor of the World War II victory in Europe. So they've invited the Ukrainians to join them, but they're going to have a ceasefire during those celebrations, the 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th of May. They've invited the Ukrainians to join them, you mean, join them in the ceasefire, not join them in the celebration. No, they're welcome to come to celebration if you like, but the ceasefire is what I'm talking about. Here's one last Lavrov on ceasefire number six.

If you want a ceasefire, just to continue supply arms to Ukraine, so what is your purpose? You know what Kaya Callas and what's his name, Mark Ruth said about the ceasefire? The data of the Secretary General and the European Union. They bluntly stated that they can support only the deal, which at the end of the day will make Ukraine stronger, would make Ukraine a victor. So if this is the purpose of the ceasefire I don't think this is what President Trump wants This is what Europeans together with Zelensky want to make out of President Trump's initiative Well, how is all this perceived in Moscow to the extent that by your presence there, you have a finger on the pulse?

Well, oddly enough, Judge, this is not the best place from which to judge what's going on. I have a computer with me, and that's been the most help. We are going to be talking to Russian officials pretty soon. Tomorrow, Oliver Stone, who invited me to come with him, he and I are going to be speaking to his Narnia Youth Forum. And that will be interesting because this is a very high-level international gathering. So we'll know more.

We'll have more of a spitzengefühle, more of a finger tasting of what the winds are here. But you could find out, as usual, I hate to admit, from what Lavrov, what Puchin, what the others are saying, if you listen carefully, you can see the progress is in the wind, as long as Trump can face down the resistance and rely on Witkoff as Nixon relied on Kissinger to do the hard work of working out reasonable terms. I think that's coming I think it's coming pretty soon

They're hoping to get it done this week says Rubio. I doubt that's possible, but let's hope Yeah, what's your take? on That's possible, but let's hope yeah, what what's your take? on Trump I mean does he listen to the people he's been speaking to last did he say nice things about Zelensky because they had a nice private no media there No JD Vance there to goad him Man to man Secret that we all saw it happening conversation, and he's impressed by him, and then he goes home and he finds out the Russians inadvertently

killed civilians in Kiev and he blasts them. I mean, does this change his thinking? I think Judge Mercurial is probably a better way than unpredictable to describe Trump. You never know exactly what he's going to say. What we can say is, in my view, he's not a warmonger. What he wants to do is a deal. I take him seriously when he says he wants to stop the killing in Ukraine, and so does Putin. So there's the makings of a deal right there. So long as Trump realizes there was a terrible mistake

to get involved with here. It's not only saying that, I think he realizes that. What he needs to do is pretend to get the troglodytes around him, to give him some space and let Wittkopf work this thing out. I think it's going to be worked out and I hope it can be done pretty soon because this coming week, as Rubio has said several times, is crucial. They're going to move this forward and you know, the Wittkopf meeting there at the end of last week was very successful.

Uschakoff and Teskov, they've all said that there was progress and that things are looking up. And they wouldn't be saying that if there wasn't still hope that a deal can be made on Ukraine. Now, I'm not mentioning Gaza, but everyone should mention Gaza because the genocide continues there and it would not continue there. I want you to hold off on Gaza for just a minute because we'll put a bow on the discussion about the Russian-Ukrainian war with a comment Secretary Rubio made yesterday, and then I'm anxious to hear

your thoughts about Gaza, and then I want your thoughts about the city of Moscow and see if it's the same as what Larry and I experienced. But here's Marco Rubio yesterday on close but not enough. Cut number one. We think we brought the sides closer than they've been in a very long time but we're not there yet, and it needs to start happening. We need to start, I think this is gonna be a very critical week. This week is gonna be a really important week in which we have to make a determination about whether this is an endeavor that we want to continue to be involved in or if it's time to sort of focus on some other issues

that are equally if not more important in some cases. But we wanna see it happen. There are reasons to be optimistic, but there are reasons to be realistic, of course, as well. We're close, but we're not close enough. Close, but not close enough. They're still funding the war. They're still paying for a war without which their funding would end in a month. Judge, I think that funding was appropriated before Trump came in. Yeah, but it's all appropriated, subject to the president's discretion. That's the way the

legislation reads. So he could stop it tomorrow. Yeah, he's trying to, you know, he's got his own equities in Congress and elsewhere. I can understand, you know, it's not for me to condone or think it's a good idea, but I can understand why he's keeping it powdered dry. It is a negotiating tool and it is necessary to keep some of the real crazies in Congress at bay, in my view. In the meantime, the slaughter in Gaza continues. The recrimination between members of the Knesset and Prime Minister Netanyahu continue. Yair Lapid, who's the leader of the Knesset and Prime Minister Netanyahu continue. Yair Lapid, who's the leader of the opposition, said, sadly, I expect soon we'll be seeing Jews killing Jews.

Haaretz accused Netanyahu of wanting to form a dictatorship and of lying under oath and an affidavit he submitted to the Israeli Supreme Court. Where's all that going? Well, you have the US ambassador to Israel blessing genocide. I mean, he's a reverend and he's blessing genocide explicitly. Now, if Americans acquiesce to that kind of thing, if we can't stand up and say, look, genocide is evil, we're against it, like the Germans couldn't way back in the 30s, then,

you know, what are we worth here? This is new. This is something that needs to enter into every conversation. I'm going to do it here in Moscow as well. The world has to say no to the rest of the killing there in Gaza and the West Bank. It's all over the place. What's your impression of Moscow, Ray? Oh my god, you know this time I'm getting around and seeing a lot of things. We'll be here for two weeks. It didn't look anything like this when you were there in the 70s, that's for sure. Oh my God, it's, you know, landing at the airport at Mukava two nights ago, it was like a, it was really quite stunning, the difference, 53 years is 53 years. And I say that there's a three years and I say that there's a book marker here, not hopefully a book end, but my God, what a difference.

And the people are just thriving here. You talk about the Russian economy going, boom, well, not by all appearances here. And I hope to get out into the provinces as well and see what it's like out there. So my idea is that sooner that Trump could come here and see what really exists here in Moscow and the rest of Russia, the better it would be. He would understand that all this stuff that

he's been fed, all this stuff that the Americans have been fed forever is not true. It's not a guest station posing as a country. You're not making up that line. A president of the United States by the name of Barack Obama used that line. Have you tried your Russian out on any of the locals and do they respond to you? Yes, I have and I've been very encouraged. They say the the pronunciation is great if I can find the words. The pronunciation is great if I can find the words. Do you refer to the president of their country as Putin when you speak to them? Well, that's what the Russians say Putin like Stalin and Putin, Lenin, Stalin, Putin.

Yeah, of course I do. It shouldn't be a big surprise. I hope you're having a great time. You seem happy, relaxed and youthful. Please give my regards to your traveling companion, Oliver Stone reminded me, he's always welcome on this show. And we'll look forward to seeing you. Maybe I'll have some stories to tell us with Larry

when we do the round table at the end of the week. I dare say, yeah. One thing that you should know is we're having lunch with Jeffrey Sachs and his wife tonight. They happen to be in Moscow and we happened to look into them over breakfast. And so we're gonna have dinner and a nice little chat with them. So I'll give them over breakfast. And so we're gonna have dinner and a nice little chat with them.

So I'll give them your regards. Please send us a photo and Chris will post it and we'll talk about it. And we're envious that we're not with you. Thank you, Ray. All the best. Okay. Take care.

See you Friday. A great man with unbelievable energy. Coming up at 11.30 this morning, Larry Johnson at two o'clock, he was originally at one, but at two o'clock this afternoon, Kivork Almacian and at three this afternoon, Scott Ritter,

Justin Napolitano for Judging Freedom. and I'm You