Judging Freedom - Ray McGovern : Putin's View of Europe and Ukraine; plus a Sad Anniversary

Episode Date: June 8, 2026

Ray McGovern : Putin's View of Europe and Ukraine; plus a Sad AnniversarySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Pragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? Jefferson was right? What if that government is best, which governs least? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish fighting

for freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Monday, June 8, 2006. Ray McGovern joins us now. Ray, a pleasure, my dear man. Thank you so much for all the time you get to us. It seems like five minutes ago we were doing the Intelligence Community Roundtable with Larry Johnson. And before we get to your understanding of the quagmire that President Putin is in and his relationship to the Kremlin and Russian elites. Today is the sad anniversary of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967. Why have we not gotten an explanation from the United States government of what happened?

Quite simply, because as Lyndon Johnson told the naval commander of the Sixth Fleet, we don't want to embarrass our ally Israel. This was a deliberate attack. We had intercepts saying pilot to control tower with this American flag, this American ship, follow your orders. So, in a nutshell, 34 sailors killed 170 plus gravely wounded, most of the crew,

and the U.S. government covered it up Until today. Now, this is the good news. Thomas Massey, who is showing incredible courage in this, is the only congressional person who has ever even raised it and he's having a speech on the Congress floor, the floor of the House today at noon. And here's this little X from yesterday. Where is it? There it is. Okay, on June 8th, 9, 2026, I'll speak on the floor of the House to honor and memorialize the brave crew of the USS Liberty who died and were wounded in the unprovoked attack by Israel on June 8, 1967. I just did the subtraction. That's 49 years ago, kept secret. Catch my speech on C-SPAN. Noon. Tune in. Some of my best friends from the Liberty crew are there,

including Bruce Lockwood, whom you have run segments of a recent speech of his. He was there. He was there. in charge of the Marine detachment, he lost all his Marines to an Israeli torpedo. A word about Thomas Massey, who has more courage than the rest of the Congress combined and more fidelity to first principles than the rest of the Congress combined. This was, of course, an unprovoked attack on an American ship, and we never got an explanation. Yeah, Judge, I'd just comment. Didn't President Johnson actually call up Secretary of Defense of McNamara and have him call the American pilots and tell them to turn around

and not to attack the Israeli pilots that were attacking the ship? The best information we have on this is that Admiral Geis, in charge of that area of the 6th Fleet in the mid, swore a USS Liberty person to secrecy until he dies. And what he told him was, look, when I got the order to call back those fighter jets that were going to do battle with whoever I was attacking my ship there, the USS Liberty, McNamara called me and he said, don't do that. Pull those planes back.

I thought, says Geis, that was because they carried nuclear weapons. So I pull them back and I put up a whole bunch of other fighter bombers that didn't have nuclear weapons. And McNamara got amenally said, don't pull them back, I told you. And Guy said, I said, I need to speak to your supervisor. McNamara says, well, Lyndon Johnson, the president is right here, speak to him. And that's when Johnson said very famously, look, I don't want to embarrass our ally, Israel. You do what you told. you pull those planes back.

And that's what happened. If they hadn't got an SOS out, even the rescue ships would not have appeared. The Israelis would have not heard an SOS and would have finished the job. Their clear intent was to put the USS Liberty to the bottom of the sea, blame the Egyptians, and get the U.S. full steam in on the Six-Day War. And the Israeli ships were Israeli jets were unmarked, right? Yeah, but they had overflown the morning before.

Yeah, they were unmarked. But everyone, they were waving out the window to our friendly crew there until they started strafing them. And it was only a miracle that got a signal out to get this SOS out. And that is only the reason, that is the only reason that Israel broke off the attack. As you can imagine, the USS Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy. The Navy covered it up, the U.S. government covered up. Only Thomas Moore, who was previously the Joint Chief of Staff Chairman, did an investigation. His investigation was suppressed, but it's available if you're interested.

Look at Thomas Moore and the USS Liberty, if you wish. Well, thank you, Ray. Thank you for your passion for justice. Justice, switching to Putin. I'm thinking he's in a similar boat to Donald Trump. Isn't he looking for an off ramp from the special military operation? I don't think so, Judge. You know, if you watch Putin in Petersburg, both during the Q&A and during his speech,

I see a man who's totally at ease. He knows he's winning. He knows that the Europeans are feckless. He knows that the U.S. is on his side vis-à-vis Ukraine. And he knows that's really strange things are happening. For example, NATO fighter jets are shooting down drones. Oh, my God. Russian drones?

Well, now they're Ukrainian drones. The Ukrainian drones that are set off course by electronic measures and they fall or they have to be intercepted before they reenter Latvia or Romania

In other words that's what's going on here. They're shooting drones. The drones are making somewhat of an impact but according to Scott Ritter just last night when he talked from actually Moscow but had been in

Petersburg. That thing went over, the Petersburg summit went over quite well, despite the in the distance you could see some clouds of the Ukrainian drones wreaking some havoc and some oil turn walls. My read on this is that Putin is trying to embarrass everyone by saying, look, the Europeans say that the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming. And the Russians are going to take over Western, all of Europe. Now, what I say is, Pachir-Moo, I mean, hello, why would we want to come? Why would we want to think of Europe? So it seems to me he's quite relaxed. I think the Russians will find ways to parry these attacks by these drones and probably obliterate the basis from which they come,

all of them so far as I know, now still in Ukraine. Wow. Did he take the gloves off? Did he respond adequately to the Ukrainian attack on the girls' dormitory? Well, yeah, he mounted an unprecedented amount of missiles and drones the next day. But, you know, the interesting thing about that is, did he use it a Rechnik? And the answer is, yes, he did. But did it go awry? Well, that's what Pope people say, but it didn't. Putin explained during that Q&A with the journalists, the day, well, on Thursday it was,

he said, look, yeah, I'm going to reveal a state secret about the Erichnich. We used one, because the third one we used in an experimental way. We shot it from our firings of this capustiniard in the, say that. And we wanted to see what kind of effect it would have on this particular place in Ukraine outside of Kiev. And indeed, it performed admirably. And then we set drones in the big hole that was made to take photos and other evidence to see exactly what kind of effect it has. So the next time we use it, perhaps against decision-making centers, we don't blow up whole apartment blocks. We just blow up the decision-making centers or the military-related institution.

Is the Iraq, Fired from land, air, or sea, or all the above? Well, it's fired from land. It's fired for the nonce from their testing site way out in the middle of Siberia, Kapustinjar. Now, when it becomes operational in the regiments, I imagine it's small enough, so it could become mobile, which makes it, of course, immensely more difficult to detect before it fires. Well, interesting. But surely this war, and I agree with what you, the way you've characterized it, it's a slow, inexorable battle with the Russians moving in one direction. Surely it's taking longer than they thought. Oh, sure, yeah. You know, I thought it would wind up in just a couple of

week. And it could have, if they weren't deceived by Macron and Boris Johnson, they had a deal six weeks after the thing started. Yeah, they thought that the Minsk agreements would work. But that's part of the really incredible background here, because Putin can't resist mentioning Minsk one, Minsk, two, where it's very clear that they were deceived because the people, the French President and Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, have admitted, look, Minsk, that was just to give

us six or seven years to build up the Ukrainians with NATO weapons and NATO training so that they could go ahead and defend Kiev or extinguish the people who were revolting and who didn't like the coup regime

those people in the Donbas. Wow. Does the Kremlin continue to challenge the legal legitimacy of the Zelensky regime? Yes, and Putin is a lawyer, right? So he went through hoops on that in answer to questions on Thursday.

He said, look, this fellow was supposed to be re-elected or supposed to have elections two years ago. That means he's been in office two years illegally. Now, if he runs again and tries to get four more years, which he's allowed to under the Ukrainian constitution, where do we start counting? Do we say six years or four years? The whole thing is crazy because he's illegitimate. Now, are we willing to talk to other Ukrainians that might be considered able to talk to us? Of course. But, you know, let the lawyers decide. Let the lawyers decide whether he's legitimate or not. He's marginal. We'll talk to him.

the Ukrainians when we are ready to talk and not when they ask for a meeting that, as Putin said, there is no point in. So when Zelensky sends a letter to Putin insults him and then says, by the way, when are you going to talk to me? I mean, that is for domestic Ukrainian political consumption. Yeah, and try to pump up the Europeans as well. That was the next day. That was Friday, and Putin handled that quite well. He said, you know, this letter was designed not to instill or begin talks,

but actually to make it impossible for me to say yes. I mean, read the letter is insulting. I think the British wrote it for Zelensky. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. Let me prevail upon your expertise on American intelligence, because, as you probably know, and I don't know how or why this was leaked, but it was, the Defense Intelligence Agency issued a threat assessment against Israel for spying on Elbridge Colby, the Undersecretary of Defense, and Steve Whitkoff, the president's chief negotiator,

and by implication on the president himself, since he talks to these two people. Well, that's par for the course. That's the way intelligence operates its work. What's interesting is the timing. Now, not quite clear how this got released, but DIA did this. Now, who reports to DIA? Oh, that's NSA, the National Security Agency. What's their job?

Oh, their job is to intercept what people are communicating. So the way I look at it, the DIA got the certification. information. It was not being taken seriously by the likes of Rubio and Hexeth. And so they leaked it. Someone leaked it officially or unofficially. Why? Well, to show what a hold the Netanyahu has on our president and how the Israelis are willing not only to kill 34 people on a boat 49 years ago or ship, but also they're snooping on us in the highest level with respect to Whitkoff and Colby. I used to work for Colby's grandfather. Can you believe it? Anyhow, they're doing that stuff. The interesting thing is that they're leaking it,

just like the leak of the profanity that Trump doesn't deny using in talking to Netanyahu saying, look, what the F what the F you're doing here? I saved your ass. Now, look, come on. So it's very, real. It's leaked. Trump didn't even deny this. And with what's going on right now, this is the big, the big challenge. Who will win? Now, Trump says, I'm in charge. I make the decisions. Well,

that's what he said yesterday. We'll see if his entreaties to both Israel and Iran to stop firing, as he says, whether they'll acquiesce in that. I think they will, but the fact that Netanyahu went as far as he did over the weekend, and particularly last night, and just thumbing his nose at the notion that he wouldn't hit near Beirut, and then the retaliation from Iran following up as night the day, you know, it shows the limits to his influence. Let's see if he can work as well now. If they stop, well, there's a chance there could be some agreement.

I think an agreement is weeks, if not months away. I do not share the optimism of the people that cite some of the things that Trump said. There are some of the things that the Pakistanis say. After all, the Pakistanis have a stake in this. They're mediators. They want to succeed. So it looks pretty dismal to me. The question is whether they'll stop for a while now and re-institute if they have, well,

reinstitute the ceasefire and stop obliterating one another. Here's, you just referred to this, Ray. Thank you very much. Here's Prime Minister Netanyahu last night, Sunday, June 7th at the Kinezzan saying, an Israeli Prime Minister must be able to say no to the U.S. Number seven, Chris. A prime minister in Israel must have one specific essential ability. Just one single ability.

And if he lacks this fundamental quality, then he simply cannot be here in this position. He needs to be able to say one word to the president of the United States. And that word is no. No. No is the same in Hebrew, I see. I gather it is, or he was just saying it several times. for emphasis. You're not surprised to hear that,

but I wonder how that rests in the Oval Office, given the ego of the current principal occupant thereof. Well, I think it should be looked at first and foremost in the Israeli political scene. Nizheniavo was under great pressure from the right. They want him to do more. They want him to say no to, to, to Trump.

With respect to how Trump looks at it, well, you know, Trump has a way of acquiescing in these kinds of indignities. And again, I would just refer back to the holes that Netanyahu has on Trump

that everyone, including the Defense Intelligence Agency, recognizes and that it may have something to do with the blackmail potential of the Epstein files, which BB Netanyahu has chapter and verse, lots of videos and other things that Trump could not possibly allow making public. You're 100% correct on Netanyahu being attacked from the right.

Here's Naftali Bennett, Netanyahu's former chief of staff and a former prime minister and his principal opponent in the elections in Israel, this fall. It's written. It's not a tape, so I'll read it. It's relatively brief. This is the moment of truth. Is Israel a sovereign state that can defend itself? Containment or a symbolic response would signal to our enemies that the spilling of our citizens' blood is permissible. Therefore, Israel needs to act powerfully and effectively. That may have provoked. He posted that in Hebrew, Chris Translain, it, he may have provoked what Netanyahu said in the Knesset. Well, again, Netanyahu is under great pressure. I think he will more likely bow to that pressure than he does to pressure from a guy who says, I call the shots, I call the shots, when the evidence is replete that he doesn't call the shots. He didn't call the shots on the 28th of February,

and we have the secretary. the Secretary of State Rubio admitting that Israel decided to attack it so, you know, in effect, Israel made us do it, made us join. Well, will that happen again? I don't know, because the history shows now that over these last 100 days, Iran has shown himself, Iran has showed itself so resilient and so able to fight back, with such capability to wreak havoc on U.S. Air Base, and all the rest of the Gulf monarchies that have been lukewarm in their support for the Palestinians, and that this arc of resistance to include Lebanon and now Gaza is real. Throw in the fact that if memory serves the Babelmandab choke point,

the straight there that goes into the Red Sea, that the hoodies are about to close that if you're going to close that, they have not already closed it. That means Saudi Arabia is not making any money at all. So this is going to be resolved, but it's not going to be resolved anytime soon, and it will be only resolved that the rest of the world beats on Trump and says, look, there's going to be a depression worldwide.

Okay, is that what you want? Is that what you want before the election? I don't think so. So that's the only thing that will work. Iran's not going to give up its control of the street. That is their nuclear weapon. they don't need another nuclear weapon. Alistair Crook, our friend and colleague,

says that the Iranian attitude toward a resolution of the war that the Israelis and the Americans, the start it can be summed up in a simple phrase, ceasefire for all or ceasefire for no one. Yeah, you know, in a sense, I find that unusually edifying. I mean, these guys are serious. I mean, if I were a real politicator like Kissinger or somebody like that, I would say, well, yeah, we feel sorry for those Hezbollah folks,

but hey, we've got a good deal here with the U.S., let's just take it and let those guys defend for themselves. That's not the case here. They feel very serious about that. And unlike the Arab monarchies who couldn't give a rat's patootie, what happens to the Palestinians. We have the Iranians really caring about what happens in Lebanon and what happens in Gaza. In other words, they've thrown in Gaza now.

You have to stop the genocide in Gaza as well. So these guys are really serious. And of course, they're on good legal ground since there were occupied territories occupied in 1967. Okay. Same year as the USS Liberty, right? And that's a long time. That's what, 49 years or so. So things seem to be getting worse now.

Here's breaking news, but literally in the past two or three minutes. Iran says it has now fully blocked the Bob L. Mandeb Street. There you go. You know what that is. And you can explain that in a moment, along with the complete closure of the Strait of Hormuz, with the next step being strikes on oil, gas, and energy infrastructure of U.S. allied Gulf countries, you're just talking about this, Ray, in response to today's Israeli strikes on the petrochemical complex. This is a source close to Iran's Ghalibov. Mr. Ghalibov is the

Speaker of the Parliament and the Chief Negotiator. Yeah, you can't get any more authoritative than that. I was up late last night talking to other people. The question was whether the Houthis would close to Baban Mandab Strait. It's the strait that allows ships to enter the Red Sea. In other words, at the other end of the Red Sea is Israel, right? Now the Houthis have shown themselves capable of deterring U.S. attacks in the Red Sea. U.S. aircraft carriers and others got out of Dodge when the Houthis started shooting them up. The question last night was whether they would close it. Now we have Iran Ron's saying, yeah, they're closing it.

The Houdi just done that. And that's a real major move. And their threat to hit these oil centers, that's the next move. If Israel keeps doing that, they're going to do that. And my God, they can also take out the desalination project. And that would, you know, that'd be end of Saudi Arabia, Qatar. And the Israelis are also vulnerable. So what Trump is trying to do makes sense now.

Pre-stamp this thing down. Let's see if we can talk, at least. The ceasefire should be reinstituted, and let's calm down. Now, there are indications today that both Iran and Israel have said, okay, we did it last night. We will pause a little for reflection, or at least reinstitute the ceasefire. fire. I don't know if that's true or not, but I saw a couple of things early this morning that suggests that. Ray, thank you very much, my dear friend. Thanks for your expertise

on all this and for your passion on these terrible historical, about these terrible historical events and your ability to explain all of it to us. Much appreciated. Thank you, Judge. Thank you, some tremendous change in the course of events. We'll see you next on Friday with Larry. C-SPAN, noon. Thomas Massey. The great Congressman Thomas Massey, more faithful to the principles

of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution than anybody in the United States Congress. Massey for President. Oh, that would be almost too good to be true. Thank you, Ray. All the best. Most welcome. And coming up at 3 o'clock this afternoon

on all of this, As Donald Trump lost his mind, Professor Jeffrey Sachs. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.