Judging Freedom - Ray McGovern: (SPECIAL) - How CIA Helps Ukraine Military

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

Ray McGovern: (SPECIAL) - How CIA Helps Ukraine MilitarySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, February 26, 2024. Ray McGovern joins us now. Ray, always a pleasure, my dear friend. You and I and Larry, and to a certain extent, Jack Devine, we have all talked about this in the past, and that is the CIA involvement in Ukraine. But over the night, the New York Times released a 10,000-word piece during the course of which, or they claim in the preparation for which they conducted over 200 interviews, many of them with CIA personnel, outlining in great detail the involvement of the CIA in training and rehabilitating the Ukrainian intelligence services and in guiding them on how to kill Russian soldiers and even in controlling and directing them.

So the first question for you is, is this credible that the CIA would have engaged in this massive investment of human resources and financial assets to rehabilitate the Ukrainian intelligence services and engage it in attacking their Russian counterparts. Yes, it is not only credible, it's real. It happened. This is an amazing puff piece here. Very long, 200 former intelligence. Well, you know, did they interview Doug McGregor or Larry Johnson or me? I guess we're chopped liver.

Besides we've been right on all this stuff. It reflects a lack of perspective on what actually is going on now. They trot out all this business about MH17. The Russians did it. There is no proof that the Russians did it. And the International Court of Justice ruled, look, we don't buy that explanation that Russia has done. That was just a month ago, okay?

They trot out interference in the election of 2016. It's as though they don't know what's going on. Meanwhile, Ukraine is losing. I mean, losing in a worse way than ever before. The AFK has fallen and Putin has made it very clear in a very resolute speech he made on the 24th, look, we've had it. We know what's happened. We're going to go forward and NATO is not going to prevail in these circumstances. So this is a puff piece to show that the CIA is still alive, still well-funded, and the linchpin, that's the word used for Ukrainian success. Hello? I agree with you. It is a puff piece. And for those of you watching us now who have a lot of

time on your hands, it'll take you a while to read this. You can read it. But why would it come out now on the cusp of Ukrainian collapse? This is not going to make the CIA look good. This is going to make the CIA, it's going to expose the CIA for its failures, to pick the wrong side. Well, Judge, for you and me, and for people who are educated in these matters, that's true. Most people are not, you know. Most people say, my God, the daring do, the resolve of John Brennan and his caution not to provoke Russia.

They're going to take that as gospel. After all, there are really nice pictures. They're John Brennan and his caution not to provoke Russia. They're going to take that as gospel. After all, there are really nice pictures. There are really nice photos going all with this stuff, about eight of them. OK, so that's the problem. People don't realize that the Russians are prepared to go as far as they want all the way to the Dnieper if they care to. And that Putin has made it very clear that he's not going to stop. He's not going to tamp down in any respect.

So it is disconnected from reality, but everything else is. And even NATO seems to be singing a tune that Ukraine probably win if we give them enough weapons. Maybe they'll have an offensive in 2025. Unreal. How professional and how well-respected, if at all professional or well-respected, is the Ukraine intelligence services? Well, it's very highly respected because we created it, we run it,

and we tell it what to say. Here's the deal, Judge. When you're involved in an operational way with an ally, okay, you send hundreds of operatives in to support them and all. There is no capability back at headquarters to say, this is a fool's errand. We're losing. These guys are a bunch of, they're on the take. They're spending the money we give them. There's nobody in the analysis part that will dare say, you know, Mr. Director, we know you've gone to Kiev eight times, but there's no way you're going to have a good end on this thing. Nobody, just the operatives giving target information and helping kill other Russians. Now, to the degree that that resonates with the American people, I mean, Russia, Russia bad, Putin, Putin bad, that's the

danger here. And the odd thing here is that whole thing depends on the narrative that the Russians interfered in the 2016 election, which has been proven again and again lately by Taibian folks. Completely false. They didn't interfere. It was John Brennan that interfered by saying the Russians interfered. Is that too hard to understand? I don't think so. But the Americans don't get that message. There's an interesting vignette portrayed in this when the CIA-inspired coup in 2014 took place and the president of the popularly elected president of Ukraine and his intelligence

chiefs fled to Russia, the new intelligence chief of the new puppet administration walked into the intelligence headquarters and found nothing there. The computers had either been white clean or inflicted with malware. The documents had been burnt in a courtyard. There wasn't even electricity on. What did he do? Picked up his cell phone at midnight, midnight, picked up his cell phone and called two people, the head of the CIA, the resident head in Kiev, and his counterpart for MI6. And they came over at that time of day to meet with him. I guess from that point on, he and the Ukrainian intelligence services were subject to them. Question, is it typical for the CIA, I know it's typical for the CIA to work with foreign intelligence agencies of countries that are vassal states.

Is it typical for the CIA to fund and to control them? Yes, it is, Judge. And this goes way back to Vietnam when a similar situation happened. It's the role of the CIA to do what Jake Sullivan tells it to do. And Sullivan, of course, acts for the president. Now, if Sullivan says, okay, Bill Burns, you send several hundred people in there to support the Ukrainians and make sure that when we do this coup,

and the coup, of course, was on the 14th of February, I'm sorry, 22nd of February, 2014, then, you know, make sure that the new head of intelligence that we're putting in, make sure that he has a Rolodex with the number of the chief of station in Kiev and the MI6 guys, so he can call on them right away. So this thing reveals the fact that this new guy, he's the new head of intelligence under the coup regime, goes into the office and says, oh, my God, they destroyed all the records.

What do I do? Oh, look at Rolodex or look at his computer. And he calls these guys and they come and come right away. So, you know, the the mesh here antedated this particular day. They've been in it ever since Victoria Nuland decided to have this coup. But this was, you know, here is they're bragging about this, that the CIA was right there. And so are the MI6. I mean, they're the cornerstone here. They're the linchpin, word used, to make sure that Ukraine wins. And guess what? They seem oblivious to the fact that Ukraine has lost and lost big. And I don't know why Washington is

perpetrating this continuing myth. Maybe it's to shock the American people to say, oh my God, Putin has done it again. Now we have to send blah, blah, blah, more offensive weapons or even troops. God help us. Here's an interview. This is cut number one, Chris, between President Zelensky and CNN over the weekend in which he slips and says millions have been killed, and then he corrects himself and says millions will be killed if the Republicans don't vote in favor of the Senate already passed $61 billion package. It's interesting because this follows his bizarre statement over the weekend that 31,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed, whereas in reality,

we know that number is around a half a million. But anyway, here's this somewhat disjointed interview, President Zelensky on CNN cut number one. Senator J.D. Vance, who was in Munich at the security conference but didn't meet with you, he said that even if you got the $60 billion in aid, it is not going to fundamentally change the reality on the battlefield. What's your response to that? I'm not sure that he understands what's going on here. And we don't need any rhetoric from people who are not deeply in the war. So to understand it is to come to the front line to see what's going on, to speak with the people, then to go to civilians,

to understand what will be with them, and then what will be with them without this support. And he will understand that millions of people have been killed, will be killed. So he doesn't understand it? Because he doesn't understand it. Of course, God bless you don't have the war on your territory. You know, again, it's a little confusing as to what he said. I can't pin him down and expect his English to be perfect. But first he said millions have been killed. Then he said millions will be killed. The implication is, I think millions will be killed if the aid doesn't arrive.

But as I said, his government issued this statement two days before this interview saying only 31,000 of the troops have been killed. But what happened to the other 465,000? Because we know that about half a million are dead. Ukraine- Go ahead, Ray. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say he's off by a factor of 10 at least. Right. And even the Ukrainians have said double that. So he's living in a wonderland.

He's a really good actor. I mean, let's concede that. He's a really good actor. But when he doesn't have his lines memorized, then you see what happens. Worse still, the defense minister, Umarov, got up over the weekend and said, you know, the delays, the delays is what's killing us here. The NATO said, the U.S. said they were, and the promised stuff is always delayed. And if it's delayed, we're going to lose, you know. So the pressure is on Mike Johnson. He's the Speaker of the House this week. Now, the representatives are home in their home districts.

So Americans have a chance to get at them and say, look, don't throw good money after bad, for God's sake. This thing is lost. And this puff piece in the New York Times, it can be used as ammunition for those who want to continue this tragedy because the CIA is the linchpin and we're doing just fine. Give me a break. We have to stop that. And to look at what Biden has finally conceded to do, he's going to meet with the top four in Congress. That includes, of course, Mike Johnson on Tuesday. That's tomorrow, on Tuesday. Okay.

They have lots to discuss, like continuing government funding, but Ukraine is on the top. Now, will he be able to browbeat? Will he be able to embarrass Mike Johnson into not letting Ukraine lose? Well, that's what he'll try to do. The other thing, of course, is Trump won 60 to 40 in Nikki Haley's home state. That's big. That's going to affect Mike Johnson. And I have a little apocryphal comment on that.

Why did Nikki Haley lose so big? It's because she got the endorsement of former CIA director, Mikey Murrell. Remember when 2016, he said, I used to run the CIA and I think Hillary Clinton is the best. I can tell you she's the best possible child. So let's hope that candidates avoid being endorsed by Mikey Morrell in the future. There's some circumstantial evidence that Nikki Haley took it on the chin because of Mikey Morrell's. I know Mikey the way you do. Before he was employed by either CNN or MSNBC, he used to be at Fox. I didn't know he was a political analyst, but from his history, who the hell would want his endorsement? I'm commenting on his political endorsements, not on his leadership of the CIA. One of the

arguments that President Zelensky has made is one with which we are familiar, and that is that the money being appropriated actually stays in the U.S., a lot of it, because it goes to the military-industrial complex. He obviously understands that here from that same interview, cut number three. Do you still have faith in the US Congress? Well, I do have hopes for the Congress. I am sure there will be a positive decision, because otherwise it will leave me wondering what kind of world we are living in. Because of that, we do count on Congress' support. We do know we need their support within a month. I met leaders of both parties in different formats.

And the president, those in power, those in opposition know it. They know that our request has been to get this assistance in a month. They know that. As regards aerial defenses, we do know – they do know we need more. If we speak about that today. But, well, anyway, most of the money will be left in the U.S. with companies producing the types of weapons we need. So let us not forget about that.

You know, I understand this, that this really just enhances the military-industrial complex, but they can't produce this stuff overnight. Does Ukraine get surplus ammunition just hanging out there, or do they just have to wait until whatever's being built in the United States is ready? I mean, do we have 155-millimeter shells in warehouses? I thought we had run out. Well, we haven't completely run out, but we have to be providential in keeping a share of these shelves for ourselves just in case we need it. You know, it's really amazing that Zelensky would be sort of continuing to take this line. He's directly interfering in what Congress is going to be doing this week. And it looks very bad for Zelensky, because I don't think that Mike Johnson is going to buy this, okay? And so what does that mean?

That means the war is over officially, okay? There's no more money. Europeans can't give any money until 2015. There are no weapons to give them. It's a fool's errand to approve more money still. And that's what Zelensky, of course, is saying, what you got to do. And, you know, he uses the word nadiyus. Nadiyus is the same in Ukrainian and in Russian. I'm hoping, I'm hoping. Well, he can hope, but I don't think the cards are very, very good for him right now in terms of getting still more money poured down that drain.

Last thing I'll say here is what you're pointing to, the military-industrial complex. When the big supplemental was approved by the Senate, okay, the president laid this thing out. You got to support both Israel and you got to support Ukraine. Ukraine at that time was 61 billion. Now it's down to 60 billion. Okay. And what he said, what the president said was, look, this money stays in the United States. It creates jobs. And the Senate to a man, except one, all pointed that out in their comments. Yes, you know, remember now, this money stays here and feeds jobs and so forth the only one to object or not to say that was chris von holland and that's to his credit it's so crass it's never

been so obvious before what this game is all about enriching the one percent that profiteer on war let's get back to uh the new york times uh and Times and the CIA. Ukraine has perpetrated strikes inside of Russia using various military equipment. Could they have done this without CIA assistance, guidance, control, and assets? That's a tough question, Judge. The answer is probably yes. But when they have targeting information, when they have the whole intelligence units built by the CIA to enable them to do this, then that really helps. Now, the protestations that the Ukrainians have gone too far, they go too far. And John Brennan, bless his heart, admonished them, please don't do things that you don't tell us about anymore. That's part of the puff piece. Building up Bren recall, I was involved in one of these allegations, along with Larry Johnson, against then Mr. Trump, who was just a candidate for the presidency in 2015 and 2016. But back to what you were just talking about. And then I want to ask you about Russia, excuse me, about Gaza. And I want to ask you about

this poor soul that committed suicide on the steps of the Israeli embassy in Washington. But before we get there, CIA helping to train Ukraine intel and forces on how to attack Russia. Isn't that an act of war against Russia perpetrated by the American intelligence services? Couldn't Putin make that logical, rational observation and complaint? Yes, he could. And yes, he has. He did a masterful speech on the 24th, on the anniversary of the invasion. He appeared resolute. He outlined how this all went down. And he knows what the score is. And he said, it's the West. It's the collective West as he puts it, the elite that funds and proceeds and continues this thing. So yeah, he said it, but the question is what next? What is he going to do? Now, I see him as very cool, calm and collected, but I suspect he's not so

cool, calm and collected because he has has said specifically he wants predictability on the other side of the Atlantic, and he ain't got that right now, and he won't get that anytime soon, reading the tea leaves about November. We're going to take a break for just a minute to help pay our bills. When we come back, what happened over the weekend in front of the Israeli embassy in Washington, D.C.? And why don't you know about it? Why isn't the mainstream media covering it? But first this. How do you really feel about your financial future right now, today? Stable or uncertain? Despite all the happy talk that the Fed and the banks want you to buy into, I believe that 2024 is going to be a very unstable year, politically and financially.

That's one of the reasons I decided to buy physical gold and silver. And I suggest you should do the same and do it now. Why? Because throughout times of economic uncertainty, gold and silver have rightly earned a reputation for stability. Owning precious metals has made me feel more stable and it can do the same for you. Reach out to my friends at Lear Capital and get their free wealth protection guides.

You can reach them at 800-511-4620. Lear has earned an excellent reputation by helping thousands of customers just like you move portions of their retirement savings into Lear gold and silver IRAs. It's easy to do and it's tax and penalty free. Don't be caught off guard. Experts predict the markets may tank again you'll be happy if you have protection in place so call lear at 800-511-4620 800-511-4620 or go to learjudgenap.com and tell them your friend the judge sent you who who is uh aaron bushnell or who was Aaron Bushnell and what happened to him? Aaron Bushnell is or was an airman in the U.S. Air Force. The Air Force has confirmed that.

He couldn't abide the U.S. participation in genocide, U.S. enabling genocide. And so what he did was he appeared before the Israeli embassy and he said this, I will no longer be complicit in genocide in Gaza. I'm about to engage in an extreme act of protest. And with that, he lit himself up with, I assume, gasoline, shouting all the while, free Palestine, until his voice was silenced. I understand he died in the hospital when they finally got him there. Now, shortly before he did this, he texted, he posted the following on Facebook. And this, please listen, because this is a moral quandary for me too. Okay, here it is. Quote, many of us like to ask ourselves, what would I have done if I were alive during slavery or Jim Crow or apartheid, what would I do if my country was enabling

or committing genocide? The answer is you're doing it right now. Right now, or you're not doing it. Well, now I added the, or you're not doing it, because I don't suggest people self-immolate. But I do suggest that if we're citizens in a democracy and we have the presence of mind and the courage to speak out, we have to do the equivalent of what Aaron Bushnell had the courage, had the temerity to do. And I would point out that this happened during Vietnam as well. And McNamara was moved by it. I guess he had an ounce of human decency

and his children left the house. They couldn't abide by somebody, their father enabling what was, well, 3 million Vietnamese genocide? Well, I think so. Six million Jews? Yeah. And now 2 million Gazans. So what I'm saying here is that it's always a moral quandary what to do in such circumstances. I do not. I do not criticize him for doing.

As a matter of fact, the fellow that I try to follow, that I patterned my life after, Jesus of Nazareth, you know, you could argue that when he went back to Jerusalem, got in the temple and started throwing things around, that was the equivalent of self-immolation. And it just took a week before they did him, too. So, you know, people have to act. They have to get off their derrieres, and they have to do more, as Bushnell appeals to them to do. What would you have done during that? Well, what are you doing now in the face of genocide? Chris, do we have any photos?

So these are just photos from the security cameras in the area. I think it shows security people going to the place where this happened. There's no actual photo of him. We wouldn't show a photo of a human being burning himself to death, but this happened. Isn't it interesting, Ray, that you don't hear about this in mainstream media this morning? This is a big deal.

An American active duty, full-time U.S. military burns himself to death. There it is somewhere. Burns to death, Al Jazeera, at the Israeli embassy in Washington, D.C. Yeah, and it's not like it happened overnight, Judge. There's a full day behind this. Right. There is footage. There is live footage, but it has been kept off social media for obvious reasons.

But it's there, and it shows what happened. Only the New York Post has published a little story about it, so far as I could find this morning. Wow. Thanks for your time, Ray. Thanks for the analysis of this long puff piece in the New York Times. I wish I could be as sanguine as you about the Trump influence on Mike Johnson. And I wish that I could believe that the Speaker of the House will see to it that

this 60 or 61 billion never makes its way to Ukraine through the military-industrial complex or however it gets there. I'm not that optimistic. I think somehow Mr. Johnson will cave in some sort of a deal with the Democrats and with Republicans. But I hope I'm wrong. And we'll find out. The House is adjourned until Wednesday. I believe that Mike Johnson's in town because tomorrow the president's going to start this full court press of lobbying them.

I got 25 cents, Judge. I got 25 cents to say you're wrong about that. Let's see what happens on Friday. All right. You're on, my man. Thank you so much. We will see you Friday with Larry in the Intelligence Community Roundtable. All the best. Thanks, Judge. Of course. Coming up later today at 2 o'clock Eastern, Kyle Anzalone on the latest excesses of the Israeli military.

You won't believe it. And at 4.30, an analysis of Eastern, an analysis of all this by the one and only Scott Ritter. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.