Judging Freedom - Scott Horton: Biden Brings War to Yemen.

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

Scott Horton: Biden Brings War to Yemen.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, January 18th, 2024. Our dear friend Scott Horton is with us today. Scott, I know you're busy. I know you're working on your magnum opus. Thank you very much for taking the time to join us. I want to talk to you ultimately about the Iran nuclear program, what the government wants us to believe,

what the American government wants us to believe, what the Israeli government wants us to believe, and what you understand the truth to be. But a little bit of background before we get there. Who was General Soleimani, and why did Trump order his murder? Well, he was the leader of the Iranian Quds Force, which is, I guess, even the more elite subsection of the iranian revolutionary guard who are the pretorians you know the elite that protect the state there and he was essentially the head of their special operations command and in foreign missions around the region now as we talked about before on the show importantly iran has essentially enlisted the United States of America to do all of their dirty work for them over the last 20 years here. So when we're talking about special operations, I mean, there's some of that in Iraq War III, the ISIS war, but mostly we're talking about handshakes and deals. Like, for example, as I'll never stop harping on, it's so important

that in Iraq War II, George W. Bush fought that whole war for Iran's best friends. And Soleimani was one of the guys wheeling and dealing within the Shiite parties during that war to make sure that Iran's friends came out on top. And it just so happened that those were the same people that the Bush people preferred, the Supreme Islamic Council led by the al-Hakim family. And these were guys who had lived in Iran for 20 years by that time. When Jimmy Carter supported Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iran in 1980, these were the Iraqi Shia who had taken Iran's side and fled to Iran.

Now, W. Bush came and put them, you know, 20 years later, 2003 through 8 or 11, however you count it, in Iraq War II, he put them in power. So the current leader of Iraq right now is a guy named Shia al-Sudani, who's from the Supreme Islamic Council, who, you know, again, this was the fact that America and Iran agreed ought to take power in Iraq. Back to General Soleimani. Why did Trump have him murdered? Well, as far as you know, who knows why Trump did anything, but as far as you know. Later, Netanyahu took credit for convincing Trump to do it. And I'm sorry, I wish I had known I'd been better prepared on this anecdote, Judge, but I believe that at least I think it kind of rings a bell that Trump actually confirmed that. Or maybe the story even came from Trump himself, that yeah, Netanyahu called and told me I should, and I thought I'd take him up on it, this kind of thing. I'm sorry, I don't have my anecdotes straight.

Quite right, quite right. Why would Netanyahu want Soleimani killed? He was on his way to lunch in Iraq. Well, in fact, the reporting was he was in Iraq to help broker a peace deal between Iran and Saudi Arabia, or at least kind of a new modus vivendi on the way towards normalization of relations between those two countries, which is something that, as you know, China accomplished in just the last year. But it seems like that was what they were trying to prevent.

I mean, what else do you call it? That was why he was in Baghdad, was they were going to meet with some Saudis there, or at least that was the claim after the fact. I don't believe disputed. How insane was it for hundreds of mourners at his gravesite to have been killed a few weeks ago? What is your understanding of what happened there? Well, I really don't know who did it. They say the ISIS claimed credit for it, which is believable. And people, again, you know, I don't know, for the hundredth time and for the first time,

maybe need to understand that the Bin Ladenites, ISIS, which is just al-Qaeda in Iraq, basically, and the al-Nusra Front in Syria and these other groups, they are the radical fringe of the Sunni side of the war. These are people who attacked us because we supported their governments. It's America's axis of power in the Middle East is the Sunni kingdoms of the Gulf, and then also including Jordan and sort of Turkey, not that they're Arabs, but they're Sunnis and allies with America in NATO and so forth. And then it's the Iranian slash Shiite axis are the ones that the Americans have posed themselves against. And so, yes, there have been ISIS and al-Qaeda attacks against Iran.

And when that does happen, it kind of brings back to issue again, whose side of this war are we on? W. Bush, as I said, fought this war for Iran, our strategic rivals in the region. It also benefited al-Qaeda. But then Obama outright took al-Qaeda's side in Libya, but especially, most importantly, in Syria, which helped lead to the caliphate. And then in the former war in Yemen, not the current one, but also I guess the current one, bombing the Houthis again puts us on the side of al-Qaeda. In this case, al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the guys that did Charlie Hebdo and tried to blow up a plane over Detroit on Christmas Day 2009 with the underpants attack. So not that I'm saying America should ally with the Shiites and Iran against these

al-Qaeda guys, but it does bring the point up again of who's on whose side here. And of course, Israel is the wild card in all this. It's because of Israel that America's government prioritizes fighting against the Shiites rather than against the bin Ladenites that knocked our towers down and killed so many of our guys in Iraq. Who are what is ISIS today and who are what is Al Qaeda today? Well, the second question is more interesting and much harder to answer. I really don't know. And I tell you, I, and I'm not a big truther. I don't believe this whole thing where ISIS is nothing but a front for the CIA and that kind of thing, or Al Qaeda, ISIS, any of those. People really oversimplify that a lot, I think. And I

think our lucky stars, Judge, I think people should, that there is apparently no Al Qaeda no al-Qaeda leader now that is anything like as charismatic or you know um authority uh wielding as bin laden since his death including even zawahiri whether he's alive or not the americans claimed to have killed him a couple years ago but bin laden had a lot of cachet i guess you would say as a leader of of radical sunni factions from across the middle east and in and had a policy of rallying them against the united states of america and i think that that seemingly that time has passed but it very well could be motivated uh it could be motivating people the current conflict to to attack us again. I mean, it was as I try to emphasize, and I think I've said on the show before, that Mohammed Atta and Ramzi bin al-Shib, the lead hijacker and his best friend from September 11th, they were motivated by Israel's war in Lebanon. Egyptian engineering students answering a call of a Saudi radical to kill Americans in order to

avenge Lebanese for what Israel did. Got it. Got it. Okay. How we're getting to Iran. How insane is it for Senator Lindsey Graham? I suppose we could stop right there. I don't even have to say but how insane is it for Senator Lindsey Graham to advise president Biden publicly to attack Iran? Well, hopefully the Ayatollah dismisses that and knows that Lindsey Graham is a clown and is not in charge, but he should shut the hell up. And again, this is a guy who's the worst Iran hawk, but who's been doing their bidding this whole time, supporting American intervention in Iraq and in Syria, both of which benefited Iran immensely and including Iraq War III against the caliphate that he had helped encourage Obama to build in the first place.

And if we really had a war against Iran, it would be absolutely devastating for America's interests. I mean, if they were really committed, Judge, I guess American air power eventually could just level Tehran short of nukes. They could still, I don't know, I don't know if they could really get a regime change. They sure could bomb the hell out of that country, I guess guess but only at absolutely enormous cost to american forces in kuwait bahrain qatar saudi arabia and economic targets all up and down the west side of the persian gulf and you know luckily we don't have troops in afghanistan anymore but we still got tens of

thousands in kuwait we got the fifth fleet stationed at bahrain and the air force and central command stationed at Qatar there, all of that in jeopardy in the event of a real war with Iran from their mid range missiles. And, um, you said a few minutes ago that you didn't accept any conspiracy theories about, uh, ISIS or Al Qaeda being involved with the CIA. Why have ISIS and Al Qaeda never attacked Israel? Well, that's a good question. And Israel was good friends with them during the Syria war, for sure, just as Obama was. And look, I mean, I don't want to dismiss that stuff out of hand. I just don't want to

oversimplify either. All right. What is the basis? What is the basis for the U.S. hatred? I don't expect you to get into Senator Graham's mind, but he does represent a mindset of all these neocons. What is the basis for the American hatred of Iran? Is it just to please Netanyahu? Yeah, mostly. Look, I mean, the Americans hold a grudge, of course, for the hostage crisis of 1979 when they were 100 years ago. Empire didn't like being humiliated they blame iran for winning iraq war ii when of course that was all america's fault their fault the american war party but they can't accept responsibility for that so you have to blame the ayatollah for them carrying his water in that war then you know the the war in syria was meant to weaken weaken Iran and Hezbollah's position.

Instead, it just strengthened Syria's dependence on Iran and Hezbollah and their Shiite crescent alliance there and backfired. So everything they do to spite Iran ends up benefiting Iran, and then they just resent them and hate them more. You'll hear them absolutely falsely claim, Judge, that Iran killed 600 of the American soldiers that died in Iraq War II. But what they mean is 500. And what they really mean is Iraqi Shiites killed 500 Americans in Iraq War II. And the Americans lied, Judge, and I debunked this completely in Enough enough already just by citing dozens of sources that they just lied that all those bombs that every time a Shiite killed an American with a bomb that they got the bomb from Iran. And that was never true at all. And so they carry a grudge over this ridiculous myth of the EFPs from 2007 that was spun up by Dick Cheney and the great American fraud, David Petraeus,

and their co-conspirator, Michael Gordon, at the New York Times. Here's to raise your blood pressure, Senator Graham saying that we should bomb the Iran oil fields. Secretary Austin and the Biden administration's failing our troops in the field. I admire him. He's a patriot, but he's not doing a good job protecting the soldiers. THE PRESIDENT IS A PART OF THE PARTY. HE IS A PART OF THE PARTY. I AM PART OF THE PARTY. I AM PART OF THE PARTY. I ADMIRE HIM. HE IS A PATRIOT BUT NOT DOING A GOOD JOB PROTECTING THE

SOLDIERS. I ASKED HIM A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, JOY, WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. IS THERE A RED LINE? WOULD YOU TELL OUR ENEMIES PUBLICLY IF YOU KILL AN AMERICAN WE ARE COMING AFTER YOU?

WITHOUT IRAN THERE ARE NO HOOTIES. THE HOOTIES've been saying for six months now, hit Iran. They have oil fields out in the open. They have the Revolutionary Guard headquarters you can see from space. Blow it off the map. And what would happen if we did that? Well, as I say, in the event of a real war with Iran, it would be a disaster for American forces in the region. And we'll get to the

lie about the houthis there in a sec if you want but in 2007 judge dick cheney was especially bent on taking the war to iran blaming them for everything wrong in iraq war ii and taking the war to them and they even put aside the fake nuclear weapons program issue for a minute and they focused as i said on this efp hoaxax led by Michael Gordon and David Petraeus. And they almost succeeded in pushing Bush into strikes inside Iran, which could have led to a real war. But what happened was the Joint Chiefs of Staff took Bush in January of 07. They took him to the tank at the basement of the Pentagon or whatever they say, the secure room. And they said, Mr. President, we do not want to do Iran.

And this is especially the army and the Marines and the special operations command. They were due to lose a lot of men and they were already getting chewed up in Iraq and Afghanistan at that time. Maybe the air force and the Navy were a bit more gung ho for air power, but judge, you need special operations forces on the ground with laser designators to hit all the anti-aircraft in order to send in the aircraft. Okay, let me stop you. How untruthful was Senator Graham's statement? Because this is being repeated all over the place, that without Iran, there are no Houthis.

Well, no, that's certainly not true. The Houthis are an indigenous tribal group, group basically of Zaydi Shiites from the north of Yemen and they became a political faction in blowback against Saudis trying to in the 1970s and early 80s I guess trying to push Wahhabism and this strict Saudi Sunni Puritan Islam and they reacted by organizing against them there. And then more than anyone, you can blame Barack Obama for their rise and W. Bush too. John Kiriakou told me the first time America helped with a drone strike against the Houthis was in 05. But what happened was Barack Obama launched, and this is almost a limited hangout now because his real war from 2015

through the end of his presidency and through Trump and to just two years ago, that was the real scandal. We'll talk about that in a moment. But people always blame him just for the drone war because that's all the TV ever paid attention to. The drone war was stage one. And in the drone war, they're fighting against al-Qaeda kooks down in the south of Yemen, Judge. But in order to do that, they had to bribe the central government, a dictator named Saleh, with weapons and money in order to allow them to fight against al-Qaeda. Now, the war against al-Qaeda in the south was counterproductive. It only made them grow worse and worse.

But put that aside for a moment. Saleh, the dictator, took all the weapons and the money and he went and attacked a group of this group of Zaydi Shiites, the Houthis in the north, who were, you know, I guess getting stronger. And he attacked them six different times. And each time he lost and they grew stronger and stronger, just like Obama's war against al-Qaeda was backfiring and they were going stronger and stronger. But then the Arab Spring came, the revolutions of 2011 and 12, and the dictator Saleh was wounded in an assassination attempt. And Hillary Clinton, the Secretary of State, swooped in, eased him out of power, and insisted his vice president

take power, when in fact, at that time, Judge, all different factions in the country were peacefully willing to negotiate in a new constitutional convention and try to work things out. And Hillary sabotaged all that with a one man on the ballot, completely phony election, and forced the successor dictatorship on the country.

Well then, bear with me here one more moment here. The former dictator, Saleh, he goes away mad and he takes about two thirds of his army with him or more maybe. And then guess what? He was a Zaydi Shiite too, just not a Houthi, but close enough. So he went and joined forces with the Houthis now. And at the end of 14, okay, nine years ago, they marched and took over the capital city and drove the dictatorship out. And they did so. And I can show you this. The footnote is easy. Bring us back to the Hooties. Let me stop you.

Judge, hang on one sec. No, no, no. No, no, no. You stop. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Bring us back to the hooties and who's funding. That's what I'm trying to tell you is Obama explained to Thomas Friedman. You can watch him because it's it's in print, but they also have the video at The New York Times. And Obama tells Thomas Friedman. And it's true that Iran warned the hooties not to take the capital city because it's going to drive the Saudis crazy and they're going to start a war. So this was friendly advice, not a command from their controllers in Tehran. And the Houthis felt perfectly fine to ignore them. And they did take the capital city. And then Saudi and Barack Obama started this most horrible war in reaction to that.

And now during that whole time, Your Honor, the U.S. Navy had the whole place under blockade. And the Saudi slash U.S. and UAE Air Force, refueled by American planes, and of course under air traffic control by Americans the whole time. They had a total air blockade over the country for the entire war from 2015 through two years ago. So during that entire time, how is Iran supposed to back the Houthis other than PayPal-ing them some money, other than PayPal-ing them some blueprints of how to use a 3d printer to make a drone they couldn't get any missiles you know um nikki haley when she was trump's u.n ambassador displayed a giant missile and said see this is an iranian missile well that was a lie it was a

north korean missile okay time out they had it from before time out time out. Does Iran today fund the Houthis? Is Lindsey Graham telling the truth or not? Does Iran give them some money? Yes, sure. But that doesn't make them Hezbollah. It doesn't make them Iran's 50% or their slaves. His statement that without Iran, there are no Houthis is ignorant and untrue. Exactly. You blame Barack Obama more than any other man other than the Houthis is ignorant and untrue. Exactly. You blame Barack Obama more than any other man other than the Houthis. I'm not interested in Barack Obama, Scott. I'm not interested in history. I'm interested in what's going on now. What is the state of the Iran nuclear program and what does the government, the U.S. government, want us to believe is the state of the Iran nuclear program? Well, I think the Democrats now would probably like us to believe that they're on top of things.

But the reality of it is, Judge, that to be as hawkish about it as I can, to give the hawks their due, steel man argument, it's a latent nuclear deterrent. It's the same thing that Japan has has and that brazil has they've proven that they've mastered the uranium fuel cycle they can enrich uranium they have only gone up to 60 weapons grade is above 90 um they have but they have demonstrated that they have the ability to make fissile nuclear weapons fuel for atom bombs. But the basic idea is, look, I got a revolver in one pocket and bullets in the other. Don't make me load my gun. Don't try me kind of thing. And the Ayatollah has issued his fatwa. The first Ayatollah did in the 80s. The second Ayatollah,

who's the same guy in charge since 89 till today, has issued a fatwa saying that it is forbidden for them to do this. Now, I'm not saying anyone should believe any politician and especially a theocrat. I'm only saying it is demonstrated fact. And Gareth Porter is the greatest expert on this, wrote the book about it, Manufactured Crisis. But it's just a demonstrated fact that you have not ever moved to develop nuclear weapons. And there are plenty of Israeli lies, especially about that. All of them have been debunked and I could do chapter and verse for you. But the real point is that they have, they are a member of the nonproliferation treaty since 68, Lyndon Johnson's treaty. And that means that they have a safeguards agreement with the IAEA and including additional

protocols that they have agreed to, which allow for expanded IAEA inspections to verify that they are not diverting nuclear material to military purposes. Now, the Barack Obama nuclear deal of 2015, Judge, frankly, was superfluous. But the thing is, what I just told you, that they have a safeguards agreement under the NPT and all of that, was almost like it didn't exist. So Obama decided he wanted to put a second layer of double extra expanded inspections to prove that they're not making nukes, not to make an ally out of Iran or give them the whole store, but just to take the issue of the real threat of an Israeli-American war against Iran over this fake nuclear weapons threat off the table. And that judge succeeded. And you might remember that they had to kind of shut up about pretending to believe Iran is making nuclear weapons for a while there. And instead, they only complained that Iran got all this money, which was their

money Jimmy Carter had stolen in the first place, etc. But the point being that then what happened in 2018, Benjamin Netanyahu convinced Donald Trump to withdraw from the deal. Now, Iran still is under the NPT and the safeguards agreement, and they have still abided by most of the extra 2015 deal, but not all of it. But they have not withdrawn completely from the deal. And basically, what's going on there? Why would Netanyahu prefer to have Iran out from under the deal and the expanded inspections regime and have more of a risk of their nuclear program turning into a nuclear weapons program. And it's because apparently his calculation is he'd prefer a war led by the U.S. to completely destroy their nuclear program because even a latent deterrent is too much deterrent.

And that we blow it up now before it turns into a real nuclear. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think what do you think what do you think would happen if the u.s attacked iran wouldn't they attack israel well i don't know if i have missiles that can hit israel probably not to very much effect but i don't know i really don't know how many missiles they have at that range judge or that kind of thing that's a better expert i'll have to answer that. But I'll tell you this. I think there's virtually zero chance that they could field an army across Iraq and Jordan and to Israel. They have no effective air force or

naval power other than defensive. They don't have any offensive capability, especially to reach out across nations. Although they do have allies in Iraq, in an absolute worst case scenario, I don't know, but I don't think that they could reach Israel in any large numbers other than through missiles. Scott, my friend, thank you very much for this extraordinarily detailed history. I don't know anybody knows this stuff the way you do, but I appreciate your recounting it for us. Absolutely. And again, for anyone who wants the real details of this, the book is Manufactured Crisis by Gareth Porter. Thank you, my friend. All the best. Absolutely. Thank you, Judge. Of course. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Coming up,

Phil Giraldi, Colonel Wilkerson, and Max Blumenthal. We'll see you later for Judging Freedom. I'm