Judging Freedom - SPECIAL: Colonel Macgregor on US Military Overreach.

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

SPECIAL: Colonel Macgregor on US Military Overreach.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Wednesday, January 24th, 2024. Colonel Douglas McGregor joins us today. Colonel McGregor is at the Our Country, Our Choice facility in Florida, and the studios there are currently being used, so we couldn't get him in front of a camera, but he is kind enough to speak to us through computers and telephones, so you won't actually see him live, but you'll hear his voice. Colonel McGregor, it's a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you for joining us. Colonel, are you there? Yes, absolutely. Can you hear me?

Okay, got it. We hear you loud and clear now. Today, there were reports that the United States government wants to move the government of Ukraine out of Kyiv and to a city west of Kyiv. Do you know if those reports are accurate? And if so, what would that tell you? Well, this report supposedly came from Asia Times via the Department of Defense. Someone in the Department of Defense pointed out that when the fighting ends, and apparently there's an expectation that the fighting will end, the Ukrainian government will abandon Kiev and go west to the town of Lviv for Lvov in Russia, which is not unusual. It's been the capital before, certainly of the western Ukraine,

and it makes sense given the likely proximity of Russian forces to Kiev once the fighting stops. Is Ukraine on its last legs, Colonel? Oh, yes. Ukraine's been on life support for a long time. I mean, earlier today, I was talking with someone over there and said, if Washington had any humanity or humility, they would end this tragedy as soon as possible. You know, more people continue to die needlessly. And a million people have been casualties in this war. We have 500,000 dead, as noted by the Ukrainian prosecutor general just a week and a half ago. And we have at least 500,000 wounded. And how many of them will never be able to live normal lives, is anyone's guess, but the casualties have been horrific. And Ukraine is exhausted. It's exhausting its manpower, and the longer this lasts, the more Ukrainians will leave Ukraine, which is a catastrophe for

the country and for the Ukrainian nation. Colonel, as we speak, President Biden is negotiating with Republican leaders in the House of Representatives in an effort to come up with some sort of a deal. I know it's an issue that is of concern to you and to me and to a lot of people watching us, and that's the southern border. But the part of the deal that I want to ask you about involves $68 million to Ukraine. What would they do with $68 million? They need human beings that are simply not available to operate any new, as far as I understand it, any new equipment that Washington might send over there. Well, I think, Judge, you mean $68 billion.

I'm sorry, you are right. Billion with a B. Thank you. Well, remember that from the standpoint of people on the Hill who are largely disinterested in what happens on the ground in Ukraine, most of this cash will simply be recycled, as it has been at this point, to purchase weapons and equipment from the Department of Defense, which in turn transfers the money to the defense industries, and the defense industries profit enormously. You know, the president himself made the point that this is good for America because it keeps assembly lines humming and large numbers of Americans employed and so forth. Well, that may be true, but the point is it's not going to change the facts on the ground in Ukraine.

The facts on the ground are that Ukraine has lost this war, and at least half of the country will now be occupied by the Russians, I suspect, permanently. So that's the first reality. The second part of this is that I'm sure a lot of this money will be used to pay the bureaucrats in Kiev and elsewhere in Ukraine to keep the proverbial trolleys and trains running. But several billion, I'm sure, will the Bahamas or elsewhere in the world, places where money comes in and goes out without being carefully tracked. So they're laundering money to their friends who are part of this organized crime state that we're pretending is a real nation-state called Ukraine. One of our guests referred to Israel and Ukraine.

I don't want to get into Israel just yet, but he used this phrase, which I found very interesting, and I want to ask you about it. Referred to Israel and Ukraine as client states of the United States. Do you accept that description? And if so, what does that mean? Well, I certainly think it applies to Ukraine as far as being a client state is concerned. A client is simply someone who is dependent upon you for income and support. And, you know, I think a

better word would probably be vassal. But the Ukrainian leadership is definitely a client of the United States. There's no question about it. That entire apparatus would not exist if Victoria Nuland and her friends had not installed it after the Maidan revolution. So certainly since 2014, there's no other way to look at it. although I think the word vassal increasingly is more accurate, since I'm sure there are very few Ukrainians at this point who are prepared to go out and die for this client state. Now, Israel is a little bit different because, frankly, we often wonder whose client is who, is whose client. In other words, are we not the client of the Israeli state or is the Israeli state the client of the United States? It is confusing and difficult to establish because, as I pointed out routinely, at this stage of our history, I think President Netanyahu has

infinitely more influence over the conduct of our foreign and defense policy than President Biden. And despite whatever President Biden has said publicly or whatever, you know, the Secretary of State Blinken has said, there's not much evidence that anything has happened that Mr. Netanyahu does not want to happen. But, you know, calling them both client states is not unreasonable. It's just I think in Israel's case, we need to try and sort out that relationship. Who's the client? Before we get to Israel, I want to play two cuts for you. Now, I know you can't see them, but you'll hear them and you'll recognize the voices. The first is Secretary Blinken saying Putin has failed.

This is at the Davos conference in Switzerland last week. The second is Foreign Minister Lavrov on CBS News, acting, in my view, about as statesmanlike as you can imagine. The reason I'm asking you this is because two of our guests, one a political hothead and former colleague of mine from Fox, Bill O'Reilly, the other, Jack Devine, they're on the same side on this. They both have denied emphatically that there was ever any kind of an agreement from Turkey in March of 22. They both have denied that President Putin has the slightest interest in negotiating a settlement here. I think those denials are absurd and are borne by their political views.

But hearing Blinken and hearing Lavrov will allow you to elaborate on this. First, Blinken, Putin has failed, and then Foreign Minister Lavrov on CBS News. Putin has already failed in what he set out to do. He set out to erase Ukraine from the map, to eliminate its independence, to subsume it into Russia. That has failed, and it cannot and will not succeed. Second, Ukraine has not only stood up to the aggression. Over the past year, it took back more than 50% of the territory that had been taken from it in February of 2022.

The last year, the last part of the last year has been challenging, but even then, something that got little notice. What Ukraine managed to do in the Black Sea, opening it up, pushing the Russian Navy back, and starting to get grain out to the world. It's been the bread basket of the world. It's gone back to that as a result of that. Anybody who is sincerely interested in justice, including justice being established in the relations between Russia and Ukraine, which would involve, of course, stopping the Western policy of using Ukraine as an instrument of war against Russia, we would be ready to listen.

President Putin repeatedly said that it is not true when somebody is saying that Russia is against negotiations. Actually, Anthony Blinken said this in Davos a few days ago. It is not true. Russia was always emphasizing that any serious proposal which would include the discussion of the situation on the ground, of the origin of this situation, and of reaching a solution which would guarantee legitimate national interest of Russia and Ukrainian people. We would be ready to discuss it. Now, I know you couldn't see them, but Lavrov comes off as a patient academic with a razor-sharp analysis of the issues, and Blinken came off be a professional liar. And he's not alone.

He's surrounded by them. And they're all deeply in denial. No one wants to admit the truth, which is that, first of all, we goaded Russia into attacking Ukraine. We, over the objections of the Russians for practically 20 years, pushed this NATO border issue as far as we possibly could.

Not because it was in the interest of the United States or the American people supported it, but this small minority that is in control of your foreign policy apparatus, and now also the Department of Defense, wanted to do it for reasons that have nothing to do with American national interest. I don't think Victoria Nuland or Anthony Blinken or any of their colleagues over the last 15 to 20 years could actually define what American interests are. It's back to this notion that we're fighting, you know, sort of like Woodrow Wilson, the war to end all wars for democracy.

Well, it's all nonsense. And wherever our friend Wilson tried to spread democracy, something else much less attractive emerged in its place. So Blinken has to be dismissed out of hand as simply a liar whose so-called facts are fantasies. He's not interested in a global revolution to spread anything. He simply wants to bring the war to an end because that's in Moscow's interest, and it's in the interest of the Ukrainian nation. This is a war that never needed to happen. It could have easily been avoided had we had a shred of humanity and humility, but we don't. So we have arrogance and ignorance on steroids masquerading as statesmanship, but what comes out at the other end of that process is a blatant lie. The truth is, yes,

Europeans have fought over many parts of Europe for many, many centuries. It's time to end this current war and come to a new solution, which is going to involve a change in borders, something which we refuse to accept, but the Ukrainian people will accept because they know this is a lost war. To continue it means more deprivation, more tragedy, more killing, more dying, because the Russians have lost nothing. When you look at the casualty figures, we estimate that the Russians have sustained between 80 and perhaps 100,000 casualties, less than half of whom involved killed in action. In other words, somewhere in the neighborhood of 45,000, 46,000 men killed in action. Now,

we've solved the problem in the West of telling the truth by simply lying and saying that the opposite is the case. But the facts on the ground tell us something else. And the facts on the ground will ultimately prevail, regardless of what Mr. Blinken or Ms. Doolin or any of the rest of these people bother to say. Switching over to Israel and Gaza, you may know this gentleman since you know so many Israeli and retired Israeli military. This is retired Major General Gadi Eisenkot, who at one point was the chief of staff of the Israeli army and is now a member of the Netanyahu war cabinet, went on national television in Israel and said, the only way to get those hostages home is a ceasefire, a permanent ceasefire.

And by the way, it's time for new elections within the next 60 days because Netanyahu doesn't know what he's doing. He's fighting just to stay in power, and it's time for him to go. How critical is a statement like that from somebody as revered as Major General Eisenkot, who, by the way, lost his own son and a nephew in the fighting in Gaza right around Christmastime? Well, General Eisenkot is a very capable man, very intelligent, and he understands warfare probably better than most of his peers. And what he's telling you is the truth, that those hostages are never coming back or certainly are not coming back in the near term, as long as this war of expulsion and murder against the Palestinian people continues. And he is like many Israeli general officers that you will meet. He is someone, as Nassim Taleb likes to say, who has skin in the game. In other words, he's not asking Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens to do anything

he and his own family would not also do. And so, you know, my sympathy goes out to him. I think it's tragic that he's lost his son and his nephew. But I think he knows that this war is wrongheaded. And the longer it lasts, the more damage will be done to Israel. They're not going to expel or kill every Arab who lives in Gaza, although that is obviously the objective. And I think it's also true that in 60 days, Netanyahu may no longer be there. However, having said all of that, I'm not convinced that the Israeli population is prepared to give up on this operation. In fact, I looked at this offer of two-week ceasefire that Mr. Netanyahu recently tendered to the Palestinians or to Hamas,

and many, many people concluded that this is a temporary ceasefire designed to give the Israeli Defense Force a breather so that it can assemble new forces for operations against Hezbollah in the north. Now, that would mean at least a two-front war. Many people would think of it as a three-front war because the West Bank of Palestine is in upheaval, and we should expect more troops required there to suppress the Arab population. And then, of course, there's also the high probability that if you go to war with Hezbollah that you then risk war with Iran. And Mr. Netanyahu is nothing if not desperately committed to dragging us into war

with Iran on his behalf. So while I agree with Eisenkot and I pay tribute to him for the courage of his convictions, and again, I express my sincere condolences to him for the losses, I don't think that's going to happen. I think that Netanyahu will regain his grip on power and drive this offensive forward, not just in Gaza, but also against Hezbollah. On Monday evening of this week, the IDF was preparing the controlled demolition of a building in Gaza. And there are 21 IDF in the building, packing it with explosives, when Hamas attacked a tank outside the building. Whatever happened with the explosion on the tank detonated the explosives in the building, and all 21 IDF died, and another six died collaterally.

So you have 27 IDF deaths in about a three-minute time period. How critical is something like that for a small, basically, citizen army? Well, it's extremely critical. And, you know, the way to look at it is if it happened to us as a nation of over 300 million, that you're talking about losses in the neighborhood for the entire operation in Gaza of perhaps 50,000 or more killed. So this is devastating for the Israeli population that is very sensitive to these losses. You know, they can't replace these soldiers. And they have jobs in the civil economy,

and they have families that can't replace their losses. You know, the average Israeli family is not very different in many respects from the average American or European family. They don't have families of seven or eight children because the Israelis, like us, are interested in quality of life. And we live in very complex societies. It costs a great deal of money. And you can't afford to raise seven or eight children

unless you're prepared to live at the poverty line in most cases. So I think it's a very serious matter, and it's not going to get any better as long as this war lasts. It's going to get worse. And I think that's beginning to sink in, but I still don't think it has sunk in with the majority of the population. Here's, again, you won't be able to see it, but here's a clip from, I think it's CNN International, of demonstrators outside the home of Prime Minister Netanyahu. It's a report in English, so you'll be able to hear what's going on. And then I want to ask you a question about one of the demonstrators who was a physician, and what she said to the prime minister.

This demonstration held near the home of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last night. His spokesperson says Netanyahu met with some hostage families yesterday after he rebuffed a Hamas hostage proposal over the weekend. Just hours after that meeting, the news outlet Axios reported the Israeli ceasefire offer. Now, that report says Israel's war cabinet approved the proposal 10 days ago. A CNN report today adds that Israel is offering senior Hamas leaders a chance to leave Gaza as part of the offer. Axios says Israel is waiting for a response from Hamas. There is no Israeli government comment on the reports officially.

One of the parents of one of the hostages is a physician. Afterwards, she referred to the Netanyahu government as this damned government. And she shrieked because of what happened to her son. Her son was IDF, but was captured on October 7th. Israeli hostages. His body showed desperate signs of an effort to escape the chamber he was in because he knew what was entering. He was familiar with the poison gas. How does something like this go over with the Israeli public, poison gas of all things, bringing back horrific memories of the Holocaust, used by the IDF knowingly on one of its own soldiers.

Well, given the hatred that animates most of the Israeli actions against Hamas or Hezbollah or other organizations of that type. I don't think the Israelis would object very much to the use of poison gas. They would probably argue that anything which promises to reduce Israeli casualties and inflict the maximum number of casualties on Muslim Arabs is a good thing. I know that sounds harsh, but I think that's an accurate depiction of true feelings on the ground inside of Israel. The Israeli population remains behind this operation. They may not like Netanyahu for a whole range of reasons, and that's justified, I'm sure. But they support this, and they really think that these Arabs have to either be driven

out or exterminated. And that's simply a fact. Do you think that the Netanyahu government recognizes that there are limits to IDF brutality? You know, in this war at this point in time, I don't. It's very similar to the war on the Eastern Front between 1941 and 1945. The war turned into a ruthless war of extermination for both sides. And I think that's happening right now in Israel, in Gaza, and probably elsewhere. You know, one of the things that hasn't been reported in the news, it seems unrelated, but it really is not,

is the meeting today between the leadership of Iran and the leadership of Turkey. And this is a watershed event that involves two nations that historically have a long history of conflict and hostility. In fact, one of the reasons that Iran has been friendly towards Russia is that Russia and Iran both shared the same enemy. It's called Turkey. Right now, there are open discussions about cooperation on many, many levels. And what they're doing is they're looking at the commonality of interest.

And the commonality of interest extends to the elimination of the current Israeli leadership and perhaps the state. Israel is in a very tenuous position because these sorts of offers signal to the opposition in Hamas, and not just to them, but to hundreds of millions of Muslims in the region, that Israel is weak, not strong. And I think, if anything, they've concluded based upon their interaction with the Israeli Defense Force at this point, that Israel is far, far more vulnerable than anybody imagined. The real question in their minds is, where do we fit in? And I think they're assuming that if Israel does not come to some sort of agreement, which seems frankly unlikely, that we will be drawn into the war on the side of Israel and they will have to fight us as well.

And I think that's why there are now discussions all over the region between the various leaders about how they are going to cooperate in that event. I think that should give everyone in Israel and everyone in the United States real pause because behind them, once again, stands Russia and more distantly but not remotely, China. themselves at home with oil and natural gas and so forth that comes out of the Persian Gulf in that region, but also food out of West Africa. And they don't want to be cut off from that by a major war in the region. So they'll do everything they can to hinder it. But if it happens, they'll do everything they can to help Iran and Turkey and Russia and anyone else who is engaged in that war against us in Israel. I think that's what we need to keep in mind. Colonel, President Biden has attacked the Houthis now seven times in the past 10 days. It doesn't seem to have dented them.

However, does that not exacerbate what you just described? Oh, absolutely. There's no question about it. At every turn, we and Israel have both done the same thing. We've escalated. When in doubt, escalate. I think that's the theory in Washington and the theory in Jerusalem. There's no talk of any sort of serious discussion or peace arrangements or anything else because that's something that Washington will not accept. It's back to what you witnessed with Anthony Blinken. It is escalate or nothing because it is either our way or the highway. That's the attitude in Jerusalem. That's the attitude in Washington.

I think it's a very dangerous position to take, as we've discussed before, Judge, because we are not as strong as we once were. And our country is fragmented and divided in many ways, has serious economic problems, and is financially at high risk, even though, again, the same people lying about Russia, lying about what's happening on the ground in the Middle East, are also lying about the true state of affairs of the American economy, the underlying fundamentals of the financial issues. So I think we're in a bad position because no one knows what to do other than to escalate. And escalation is where we're headed.

And we're not prepared for a regional war, just as we were not prepared to supply Ukraine with the degree of support that it needed to fight a regional war against Russia. So we're not prepared. We're not organized. And that means we're going to escalate. I mean, it's incomprehensible to me as a professional soldier, but I don't think rationality has much role in any of the decision-making. There is no strategy. Everything is impulse-driven, and the impulse in Washington is to attack and attack and attack

and attack. And it will eventually escalate into what I've been talking about earlier. The Houthis are on the outer edge, on the fringe, but they will not be alone as this develops. And they are not going to be easily defeated, as we've already seen. Colonel McGregor, thank you very much. I know you have a busy schedule and I appreciate you taking the time to reach us even by the means that you did

It's always a pleasure I hope we can see you again as in see you next week Thank you, Judge We'll do our best Thank you, Colonel All the best Wow

Truly one of the most insightful interviews I've been privileged to be a part of. Coming up at 4.15, more firepower for you. The inimitable Max Blumenthal, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thanks for watching!