Judging Freedom - SPECIAL: Ray McGovern & Matthew Hoh - The myth of the Mossad.

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

SPECIAL: Ray McGovern & Matthew Hoh - The myth of the Mossad. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Resolve to earn your degree in the new year in the Bay with WGU. With courses available online 24-7 and monthly start dates, WGU offers maximum flexibility so you can focus on your future. Learn more at wgu.edu. so so Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, December 8th, 2023. This is our Intelligence Roundtable with Ray McGovern and today, Matt Ho. Gentlemen, you are both familiar with each other and with the audience and with me and with the show. And welcome back. It's late in the day on a cold Friday afternoon here in the Northeast. And thank you very much for joining us. As we come on air, Ray, you reported to me and Matt, you affirmed it. The Security Council of the United Nations voted, I think, 13 to 1 to 1 on a resolution calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.

The Security Council, of course, cannot do anything if one of the permanent members dissents. And the sole dissent was the United States of America. The other permanent member didn't, one of the other permanent members didn't dissent but abstained. So the U.S. dissents, Britain abstains, and nothing happens. You're not surprised, are you, Matt? No, I'm not. I mean, I wish I was, right? There's a part of me that this morning was thinking, wow, imagine if the U.S. actually just even abstained itself, not even voted for it. But there was no way that was ever going to happen. And so now this potentially goes, or I assume goes to the General Assembly,

but there's not much teeth behind that. And so now the question becomes, what will other nations do? What are other nations going to do to stop this? And whether it's nations, you know, I'd love to see my ancestral homes of Ireland and Spain continue to step forward in this issue, invoke the genocide convention. I'd like to see regional nations get together and say, this is how we are going to handle this. And this is what we're going to do, whether it be some type of economic blockade, whether it be further diplomatic, whether it be legal, but something to stop this ongoing genocide. I mean, this is really, I'll use a word from the streets, disgusting that the United States voted against this. This is not a condemnation so that innocent civilian human beings can get food, water, shelter, and clothing, and the United States votes against it.

How the hell would Joe Biden justify this to the public, Ray? Judge, he can't justify it to the public. And this is going to be a real black mark on the upcoming election. Young people seem to care a little bit more about justice than old people, I'm sorry to say. And it's going to really hurt him. Now, we have an Israeli mayor of one of those cities saying we ought to bury alive all those, quote, subhuman, end quote, Palestinian civilians. My God, it's clear that this is a genocide. And as Matt pointed out, the real question is, what will these Arab countries do? What will these countries who are full of

displaced Palestinians, what will the Iranians do? And what will Turkey do? They will these countries who are full of displaced Palestinians, what will the Iranians do? And what will Turkey do? They're going to do something. And I hope and pray that they do economic leverage first, because that will work. It will be slower. It'll be clear that they intend to do something strong. And that's, of course, what's indicated here. What do you think, Matt? How much more patience will Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran have? Well, you know, a number of Arab foreign ministers, along with the Turks, were in to meet with Tony Blinken before this vote happened, about five or six of them, and including the foreign minister for the Palestinian Authority. In the US?

Yeah, that's my understanding. At the UN. Yeah. And so what was their message to him? I can't imagine them at this point just going in and saying, we'd like you to let this ceasefire motion go forward. We'd like to see you. I mean, they had to have had some teeth to it. They've had to. We'd like to see, I mean, they had to have had some teeth to it. They've had to have had some type of leverage. I mean, and again, I come back, we've talked about this before. Other people have talked about this. Come back, at least Saudi Arabia was there, you know, come back at least with the threat of $7 a gallon gasoline during

the elections next year. Do something at least to stop this. I mean, and what we're seeing is advanced, just not the killing judge, but it's mean, and what we're seeing is advance, just not the killing judge, but it's also, and this is why the claims of genocide are credible, not because we're also seeing the intention, the stated intention, which is one part of it, but we're also seeing this destruction of the land. So now as Israel starts to utilize seawater ostensibly to destroy the tunnels that Hamas is in. Well, the reality of that is they're destroying the aquifers. So they're destroying the drinking water for generations. They're destroying the land for any agricultural value. We're seeing them destroy the universities.

We're seeing them destroy centuries-old mosques. We're seeing them kill poets. So they're destroying who the people are, the culture, the identity of the Palestinians. And so, my God, whatever it is that can be done must be done to stop this. I'm going to play a very emotional clip that Ray sent us of the great Daniel Ellsberg shortly before he died. But before I play that clip, Ray, and in furtherance of it, how dangerous is it for good men to do nothing in the face of unmitigated evil? It's very dangerous. On the other hand, people like Ed Snowden escaped. It really depends on whether you have an exit plan or you have powerful people like Julian Assange,

in Ed Snowden's case, helping you get to safety. Now, Russia was not Ed Snowden's first choice, clearly, but he's safe and he's contributing and he's got two little kids now. So it can end up in a happy resolution it has on a couple occasions but you have to realize you have to go in there and say to yourself what dan elberg said wouldn't you wouldn't you face life imprisonment to stop a god-awful war he said that back in 1971 for god's sake was clear. He got off on a technicality.

So he can escape too. Others can escape. And I just hope that his last warning, which was when he got the Sam Adams Award for Integrity and Intelligence back early this year, his last warning can resound, resonates loud and clear with those who have the documents. All they have

to do is give them to some gutsy reporter like Neil Sheehan back in the day, took those documents together with Rick Smith, worked on them, put them out in the New York Times. The reference, of course, is to the Pentagon Papers, now a famous Supreme Court opinion standing for the proposition that if the media, the media possesses something of material interest to the public, it can publish it with civil and criminal immunity. That, of course, does not immunize the person

who gave them the documents. Daniel Ellsberg was fortunate that the FBI broke into his psychiatrist's office during the trial and stole records of what the psychiatrist's notes were from the therapy sessions. And the trial judge was so outraged, he dismissed the charges in the middle of a trial for espionage. And Daniel Osborne walked out of the courtroom a free man. But he was obviously willing to go to jail to expose the lies in the Vietnam War. Here he is, very moving. Do not do what I did. Don't do what I did. Don't wait till the bombs are falling and thousands more have died. Act like Catherine Gunn, act like as I wish I had done in 1964,

when I knew that people were being lied to death. Putting out documents to that effect before the war, right at the time, at whatever cost to oneself, at whatever risk, which is not even comparable to the massacres that were actually ongoing or in process. Do what I wish I had done in 64, not what I waited until 69 and 71, act like Katherine Gunn and Ed Snowden and Tom Drake, Bill Binney, many others on that list, in particular Ed Snowden and Julian Assange, and act while there are still lives to be saved. One of his last public statements before he died. Basically, a call, Matt, to people in government today who can document and demonstrate that the government, let's go to Ukraine, knows we're

losing in Ukraine, knows the Ukrainian state has collapsed, knows the money we've sent there, much of it has been stolen, and still wants to send another $68 billion. Matt? And the willingness to put it all together. And I think most people in the U.S. and certainly around the world, in the U.S., it's younger folks who seem to be catching on to this and having the courage, if you will, the audacity, if you will, to connect the dots, not allow any blackouts in American history. So you see that what's happening in Ukraine, that looks different. It's a proxy war. It's not a direct war.

It's in Europe. It's not in the Middle East. But it's fundamentally no different than what happened in Iraq, fundamentally no different than what happened in Afghanistan. Those are no different than what we did in Central America and Vietnam, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So what you need are the people to come out to provide that color because people have a black and white understanding and they need their suspicions, their thoughts, their understanding of what's occurring with our government overseas to be confirmed. And I just want to go back to Dan and Ray as well, but Dan referenced Catherine Gunn. And if people, most Americans are not familiar with Catherine Gunn because she was

British and she was a member of GCHQ, which is the British version of the NSA. And she went to the press in the weeks before the US invasion of Iraq to detail how the U.S. and the British were trying to sabotage the diplomatic process at the United Nations. And a quick and easy way to learn about her, a fantastic movie called Official Secrets with Keira Knightley. It's a great film, tells Catherine's story very well.

But that's the type of thing we're talking about. We need the people who have the evidence, right? There are a lot of people, you would know this better than I, because you used to work there, in the State Department, who have recently indicated enormous public displeasure with the president's policies in Ukraine and Gaza. Am I right about that, Matt? And we just even, just yesterday, I believe it was, you have 40 interns at the White House sign a letter stating, we do not support this. This government, our government is not just promoting genocide,

it's enabling genocide. We're providing the bombs to kill the people who are being ethnically cleansed. And so you're seeing that throughout. You've seen at the State Department, particularly with the high-profile resignation of Josh Paul, who is just absolutely stellar, being, you know, not just a moral exemplar right now, at a time when we have very few moral exemplars publicly in the government. But then you had USAID, over a thousand people at USAID, that's the United States' development arm of the State Department, sign a letter protesting against this. You have 400 political appointees throughout the government sign a letter disagreeing with this

support for genocide. And with that speaking out, with that stepping out, there also comes back to what Ray was talking about, the need for people to put their bodies on the line. And as Dan was saying as well, and Dan Ellsberg got arrested about a hundred times at least. So he wasn't just mouthing these words without putting his body behind it. Ray has been arrested many, many times. I keep on my wall right next to me. You'll like this. This is Ray's bolo from the State Department when he interrupted Hillary, when he made a silent interruption of Hillary Clinton. And the State Department was so threatened by that, the Secretary of State, the American government was so threatened by a person standing silently in opposition to Hillary Clinton's

warmongering that they put out a bolo, a be out on the lookout, a be out behind the lookout for, right? I mean, and so that's the type of people that we need to rally around and support and listen to because they're the ones who've left before and they're the ones that we need now. You're a great man, Ray. I'm going to switch to Gaza and start with a clip just a few minutes ago from a man we both, the three of us know and admire, Larry Wilkerson, Colonel Wilkerson. Here's what he had to say about Bibi Netanyahu. I wish I could say, I think what you're saying will eventually come about,

but I go back to Hannah Arendt and her phrase, the banality of evil. What we're seeing is the banality of evil work every 24 hours in this situation. We're seeing people getting to the point where they just want to ignore it. They want to go somewhere else. They want to get away from the bloodshed. They want to get away from the killing and the murder and the slaughter. And they'll figure out a way to do that, whether it's Mohammed bin Salman or it's El-Sisi in Cairo or whomever. They'll figure out a way to do that. Now, if it should impact their interests directly, like, for example, the king of Jordan,

if they push too many into Jordan or El-Sisi, if they push too many into Egypt, then it could change. But I don't think it'll change dramatically. I think it might be a word or two in the ear of the Israelis, but it won't be much more than that. They're going to continue until they've done what they want to do. That was my question to him about how much longer can the Israelis continue the slaughter. Later on in that clip, he refers to Bibi Netanyahu as a der Fuhrer. Ray?

Well, I'd like to go back to what I feel is really needed here. We don't need people resigning from the State Department, although that's a laudatory thing to do. We need them taking the documents with them and showing how Bibi Netanyahu is running our foreign policy, for God's sake. Yeah, der Führer Netanyahu. We need people with the guts to stand up and find a journalist who is worth his or her salt, like Neil Sheehan during the Pentagon Papers, go to them and say, look, I took this stuff out. I have a plane ride to Hong Kong. publish it, for God's sake, and show how corrupt our government is and how snivelly the Biden administration is during genocide in Gaza. That's what needs to happen. You have to take the papers out. You have to give them to a responsible person who will get them out so the American

people can know. Let me add one more thing. When the Pentagon Papers came out, Rick Smith and Neil Sheehan were working on them. And Rick reports this. He said, Neil Sheehan said, Rick, these bastards in government have been lying to the American people about a war that they knew the American people would never stomach if they were told the truth. Now I've got the goods on them, in their own words, in their own documents. Let's publish. That's what we need. That's what we need today.

Ray, you're a gentleman, but I love when you're angry and I love the passion. So I'm going to make you angrier. Chris, let's run President Biden yesterday, speaking just to the press. Good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to speak to you today about an urgent responsibility the Congress has to uphold the national security needs of the United States, and quite frankly, of our partners as well. This cannot wait. Congress needs to pass supplemental funding for Ukraine before they break for the holiday resources. It's as simple as that. Frankly, I think it's stunning that we've gotten to this point in the first place. While Congress, Republicans and Congress are willing

to give Putin the greatest gift he could hope for and abandon our global leadership, not just Ukraine, but beyond that. If Putin takes Ukraine, he won't stop there. It's important to see the long run here. He's going to keep going. He's made that pretty clear. If Putin attacks a NATO ally, then we'll have something that we don't seek and that we don't have today. American troops fighting Russian troops.

American troops fighting Russian troops if he moves into other parts of NATO. Extreme Republicans are playing chicken with our national security. Holding Ukraine's funding hostage is of extreme partisan border policies. And now they're willing to literally kneecap Ukraine on the battlefield and damage our national security in the process. Look, I know we have our divisions at home. Let's get past them. This is critical. Petty, partisan, angry politics can't get in the way of our responsibility as a leading nation in the world.

We can't let Putin win. Say it again. We can't let Putin win. It's in our overwhelming national interest and international interest of all our friends. So I think the two of you are still muted. Oh, there we go. All right. I thought you were muted.

I mean, Matt, there's not a word of truth in what he said. No. Not a word of truth in what he said, that Putin wants to take Ukraine and move on to other NATO countries. In fact, Putin has said a hundred times the opposite. Correct. In all the actions and the actions of how the Russian army has conducted itself and everything else, there is no interest in expanding the war outside of Ukraine. And what we see primarily is an interest in maintaining a limited war. I mean, half a million dead and killed is certainly not limited, but territorially a limited war in order to achieve the goals that Russia has,

which is not a reestablishment of some type of imperial Russian or imperial Soviet empire, but rather a buffer zone, a safety zone, a security zone between them and NATO. This idea that somehow Russia, which has only been able to advance, what, roughly 60, 70 miles west into Ukraine in nearly two years, is somehow then going to go and march on Berlin? Is someone going to go then and march on Paris and then cross the Channel and take London? But we've heard this before.

We've heard this all the time over and over. Oops. Somehow we lost you. We lost you, Matt. All right, Ray, I will go to you while Matt addresses his volume. Sure. Okay. Okay. Would your friend Bill Burns, Ray, have seen what the president said ahead of time and said to him, this is hogwash

and no one will believe it? The first part is correct. He would have seen it beforehand. The second part is incorrect. He's a bureaucrat. He's a cog in the system. Okay. Now, Bill Burns told the president of the United States to say two months ago, Putin has already lost. And now we have the president coming two months later saying we can't let Putin win. What the hell is going on here? It's politics, pure and simple. And when they say, you know, don't let the Republicans kneecap us or kneecap Putin or kneecap the Ukrainian friends of the North. That's pure politics.

And a lot of people are getting killed. And there again, I hope a whistleblower could come out and say, look, this is the real deal here. It's lost. It's just not the Russians lost. It's the Ukrainians are now requesting, is going to change anything in that part of the world. And, Matt, you have a finger on the pulse of the politics as well. What do you think the Congress will do with old Joe's request for $68 billion, combine it with aid to Israel, combine it to build a border wall and give Zelensky whatever he wants to steal and run to Miami? Yeah, I think the money for Israel will

get pulled out because that is the priority for both parties. And the pressure they're going to be under from AIPAC and other Israeli lobbies is immense. Money with no strings. No strings. About slaughter and death. The few strings there are that are on the roughly $4 billion we give the IDF every year are going to be removed. So the requirements to utilize that money to purchase American weapons are going to be removed.

The requirements of Congress to be notified. So this can all be done in secret. You know, I mean, so it is it's very nefarious what they're doing in addition to supporting a genocide and ethnic cleansing. And I think what will happen with the Ukraine funding is it will go through because that's such a huge gravy train for the military industrial complex. There's no way Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon are not going to get their hands on that money. But I think it's going to take a much longer time than the Democrats wanted, and it's going to cost them a lot. So I think the Israeli aid will get pulled out, and then you'll have a separate Ukraine border. And then I think as well, too, I think the Taiwan money, the money for against China for the war that so many in D.C. won a war with China.

I think that money is pretty safe, too. Ray, I'll give you the last word. Why do presidents like bloodshed? The presidents that we have had recently have been captive to the militaryrial complex with respect to the Middle East, captive to the likes of Benjamin Netanyahu. They're not their own people. They're captive to their own entourage, so-called deep state.

They have no guts, and that's largely the reason why they let themselves be twirled around by the likes of Fuhrer Netanyahu. Here's Colonel Wilkerson, former chief of staff to career military, former chief of staff to secretary of state Colin Powell, with his opinion of Bibi Netanyahu. Since Netanyahu took over, indeed, probably since Ronald Reagan had to really bash the Israelis when they went into Lebanon in 1982. But it's certainly been their policy since Netanyahu took over. He is the most draconian leader Israel has had in its short history since 1948. He is the Fuhrer. He is the Fuhrer.

Well, we'll end with that. Gentlemen, thank you very much. It's late in the day on a Friday. The audience is deeply appreciative. Your humble correspondent is profoundly appreciative. We'll see you both next week. Thank you. Your humble correspondent is profoundly appreciative. We'll see you both next week. All right.

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