Judging Freedom - Tony Shaffer: Is The US the Big Loser in Ukraine?

Episode Date: December 29, 2023

Amidst rising tensions and shifting alliances, this podcast episode serves as a timely exploration of America's role and its potential repercussions. Gain valuable insights into the geopolitical chessboard as the hosts unpack the diplomatic, military, and economic dimensions that shape the United States' position in the Ukrainian conflict.Whether you're a political aficionado or someone seeking a deeper understanding of world affairs, this episode promises a riveting discussion that cuts through the noise, offering clarity on the pressing question: Is the US the big loser in Ukraine? Tune in for an enlightening and informed conversation that goes beyond the headlines.#russia #ukraine #USMilitaryHistory #Israel #Gaza #ceasefire #hostages #Ukraine #zelenskyy #Biden #china #IsraelPalestine #MiddleEastConflict #PeaceInTheMiddleEast #GazaUnderAttack #Ceasefire #Jerusalem #prayforpeace #hostages #Israel #Gaza #ceasefire #hostages #Ukraine #zelenskyy #Biden #china #IsraelPalestine #MiddleEastConflict #PeaceInTheMiddleEast #GazaUnderAttack #Ceasefire #Jerusalem #prayforpeace #hostagesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, December 28, 2023. Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer joins us now. Tony, welcome here. A belated Merry Christmas and an early Happy New now. Tony, welcome here. A belated Merry Christmas and an early Happy New Year to you, my friend. Merry Christmas, Judge. I always enjoy our conversations. And on a personal note, thank you for our friendship. We've been friends for a long time, and I value our dialogue and intellectual exchanges. And I miss seeing you at the Christmas party this year. They didn't have it, but hopefully next year they'll be back, so it'll be great. Well, right back at you on all those nice things. Thank you.

So over the Christmas weekend, General Zelushny, the commander of the military in Ukraine, held a press conference and said at the press conference he needs another half million troops, and President Zelensky, instead of berating him, backed him up, said, yeah, we need another half million troops and $13 billion to feed, clothe, supply, and train them. What do you make of this? Isn't that war effectively over? So everybody knows the war is over except the Ukrainians and the neocons who are advising them. Let me be very clear on that. There is an underlying fiction that Zelensky, Zaluzny, and others continue to support and promote.

And this is part of that promotion. The best they can do at this point, and I'm going to be brutally honest here. And people always get upset. Right now, the Russians have taken over Marinka, which is a city near Donetsk City, Donetsk City in Ukraine. Krinki, Avdeevka, I'm terrible with these names, Avdeevka. These are all locations which Russians have prevailed militarily and have cut off or otherwise reduced the effectiveness of the Ukrainians to the point of where the Ukrainian units are not

combat effective. The Ukrainians right now are doing what I would describe as robbing Peter to pay Paul in combat. Basically, they'll take a unit which is more or less able to defend itself in a good condition and take pieces

or the whole unit and put it somewhere to face off against the Russians to be decimated and just move it around. It's like a shell game. And that shell game takes men, material, and a lot of money. And that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to continue the shell game,

just what they want. Those do. They're trying to continue the shell game, judges, what they want. Those 500,000 would be necessary to sustain what's left of their military. And I think, I don't know this, but my theory is they'd want to set up a defense roughly north and south along the up along the Dnepr river because I think that one of the fears that the Ukrainians have now is they're going the Russians will have the option I don't know if they'll take it or not but they will have the option of taking over all of Ukraine I don't think Putin wants all of Ukraine because I think a lot of headaches comes with that but I think at this point the Russians will consolidate what they've gained they will stabilize and make regular as best you can those regions which they've they've seized uh they're now part of

the russian federation or friendly to the russian federation and then putin has said they want to basically take over odessa that that they feel odessa is part of the traditional russian uh uh of i don't know what you want to call them the possessions influenced areas whatever that they want back and so i think that's where this is all going to go but the ukrainians and the money and resources they're asking for is all for defensive purposes at this point. There's no offensive capability left that they could do. So the Congress went home for Christmas break without appropriating any money for Ukraine. The Financial Times reports that even though the EU money that President Zelensky wanted was vetoed by the president of Hungary

because they have a unanimity rule. The EU members individually have agreed to back a $20 billion loan to Ukraine. That won't be a loan, will it? It'll never be paid back. There isn't even much left of a Ukrainian government without the U.S. to pay all their bills. Am I right? Yeah. Look, we're paying for everything from MREs, meals ready to eat in the field, artillery shells to the Kiev puppet theater. Of course, we are the Ukrainian economy.

The U.S. taxpayer are the U.S.Ukraine economy. And literally, this would be another situation of robbing Peter to pay Paul because the Europeans loaning this money would only see it back if the U.S. gives Ukraine that money. So we'd be paying off the Europeans if this actually has ever paid off. And again, it speaks to the complete fiction of what's going on. Everything is kabuki. You know, I hate to, boy, I'm mixing my metaphors what's going on. Everything is kabuki. You know, I hate to, boy, I'm mixing my metaphors this morning, but it's all kabuki. You got to look past the shadows and what is actually going on past all of this nonsense up front. All we have left now, Judge, is essentially a rump state.

That is, Ukraine is now a rump state that is being pressured, put upon, and otherwise advised by our neocons, U.S. neocons, the Kagans, you got Victoria Nuland, Jake Sullivan, Tony Blinken. All these folks are supporting a fiction which does not exist and the ukrainian people are expected to be the sacrificial lamb to to fulfill their their destiny and their destiny they still believe that is the neocon still somehow believe if we just hang in there we just put a little more pressure on russia russia's going to collapse and putin will be gone and it's it's a complete fiction it It's like, I don't know what, it's like La La Land. Here's, just cut five, Chris, from the master list. Here's President Zelensky right before Christmas saying almost exactly what you

just said, Tony. Oh, don't worry. The U.S. won't betray us. Watch this. We are working very hard on this, and I am certain the United States of America will not betray us, and that on which we agreed in the United States will be fulfilled completely. I was after his last trip, which was widely panned as a disaster. What could he possibly mean, that on which we agreed in the United States? Well, there is always look at who he meets with. He met with the defense contractors.

Now, one of the things that is in the AUMF, the currently authorized, and I think you and I would agree, the AUMF did not exist at this point since the conditions for which it was created. The 9-11 attacks have long since been resolved. Correct. But here we are still 22 years later. They're using the AUMF, the Authorization for Use of Military Force, to justify killing people that weren't even born on 9-11. I am fascinated by this. I mean, as a soldier, intelligence officer, and now political guy, like, really? Anyway, I digress. But let theoretically, that's supposed to be going to U.S. manufacturers to replenish U.S. depleted resources, those things we've already given to Ukraine. But you know how the Pentagon works, Judge.

They're probably going to find a way to accidentally send it to Ukraine. So I think he's been given insurances like that. I think he's been talking to folks like Newland, like others in the current White House, Jake Sullivan, who have basically reassured him that don't worry about the politics. We're going to come through. And I think behind the scenes, there's an enormous lobbying effort by Biden and all these knuckleheads who are pretending to be foreign policy experts working to try to get this situated so that Ukraine does get the money. But you and I spoke about this several times before it happened. I said the Congress was not going to approve it, and they didn't.

I think a lot of folks now recognize there's a political, it's political folly to, at this point, give more money to the Ukrainians without any hope of any return on it. And I think the Ukrainians are being sold down the river by the neocons. I don't think Zelensky is fully recognized how badly he's being lied to at this point. I'm going to play a montage for you that I know you've seen and our viewers have seen, but it's to set up a question that will follow. The montage is Joe Biden saying, we have your backs for as long as it takes. Putin has lost. And then he sort of modifies his tone.

We have your backs for as long as we can. And then he says, well, if Putin takes Ukraine, he's going to attack the rest of Western Europe, other NATO countries, and you're going to see American boys fighting Russian boys. I want you to watch this as a setup for my question. Putin's war of conquest is failing. Russia's military has lost half its territory it once occupied. It's worth fighting for for as long as it takes. And that's how long we're going to be with you, Mr. President, for as long as it takes. We'll do it. Thank you, ma'am.

We're advancing this goal by providing them the support Ukraine needs now on the battlefield and helping them strengthen their military over the long term. The fact of the matter is that I believe we'll have the funding necessary to support Ukraine as long as it takes. The American people can be and should be incredibly proud of the part they played in supporting Ukraine's success. We'll continue to supply Ukraine with critical weapons and equipment as long as we can. If Putin takes Ukraine, he won't stop there. It's important to see the long run here. He's going to keep going. He's made that pretty clear. If Putin attacks the NATO ally, then we'll have something that we don't seek and that we don't have today. American troops fighting Russian troops.

American troops fighting Russian troops if he moves into other parts of NATO. Question, Tony, and thanks for your patience and seeing something that I've played for you before. Who is the big loser in Ukraine? Is it Ukraine or is it Joe Biden and the United States government? No, it's the Ukrainian people. I think the Ukrainian people were sold a bill of goods by the same people on our side. The color revolution back in 2014, basically it was a coup d'etat against a newly elected government run by Victoria Nuland, it was very clear at the time, massive new resources of gas and oil were found within the region. I think that's one of the big motivational factors for the Obama administration to have made this attempt to move Ukraine out of the Russian sphere into the

EU sphere, because all that gas and oil in the actual areas of the Donbass that the Russians now have, as well as the Black Sea, would have made essentially Ukraine a preferred partner regarding the sale of gas and oil over Russia. I think that was a big issue. And I think this is underreported. If you just look at the numbers regarding the resources that have been found and the timing of the finding and what happened regarding a guy named Hunter Biden

joining the board of Burisma, I think it's all connected. But at this point, the people of Ukraine then were essentially led into this. They were led down this primrose path that they would be part of the EU, that basically they would become a full partner of the Western Europeans, leaving completely the old Warsaw Pact, Russia sphere of influence. And the Russians all the time, I think, were willing to have negotiations about how to do this. And ultimately, the Russians were ignored.

And Putin actually addressed this in his annual message. He, Putin, said during his speech, I think it was about a week ago now, time flies, where he says, I, you know, I take responsibility for having been deceived by the West, that I believed America. I believe that the West would negotiate in good faith to listen to our issues, which essentially they feel, the Russians feel they need a sphere of protection, a sphere of security. It is what it is. And it's existed since long before we were a nation. I mean, this goes back to a time before the United States, where the Russians have always felt this imperative to protect their border. And the longer we ignore it, the longer we pretend that we can stop Putin's desire to reestablish a sphere of influence and protection, the more the Ukrainian people are the victims of this.

How bad a defeat, though, is this for Joe Biden? He really never created himself an off-ramp other than to divert the attention of the American voters from Ukraine to Israel and Gaza? So it's not something he can fix. Recently, the Express UK, which is a British paper, pro-Biden normally, apparently, actually stated that France, Spain, Italy, and some other European nations are withdrawing from Operation Prosperity Guardian, which is our effort, U.S. effort to protect shipping in the Red Sea. That vote of no confidence is because of Biden's incompetence and Biden's being seen as weak. The Europeans are a lot of things, but they're not foolhardy enough to sign a board with

the United States at a time when it's very clear we're backing away from Ukraine. We abandoned Afghanistan. Simply put, they don't trust Biden. They don't trust the United States, and especially with Biden in charge, because there's no consistency. So I think the fundamental policy position of the Biden administration is to not lose. They don't want to win. They don't want to actually put the work and effort into what it would take to achieve something, to do something. They sooner sit back and let events dictate to them what the future is.

It's a very dangerous position to be in, but they believe it's triangulation regarding how they want to posture themselves to be friends with domestic radical elements, Tlaib and Ocasio-Cortez, all these folks who essentially support Hamas and terror and all the things that are going on, the most radical elements of the Democrat Party, to include the Democrat Party who's all up on supporting Ukraine. Biden feels he needs to keep them on board. At the the same time he's alienating his other bases that would naturally be there for him so I don't think there's an out here for Biden I think Biden is going to lose no matter what and a failure in Ukraine which is

which has already happened it's like it's like when you're when you see lightning at night judge you see the bolt of lightning you see the light and then you hear that the boom the lightning's already gone. The defeat's done. It's just we're waiting for the sonic boom to hit us at this point.

Here's President Putin saying, expressing his views about the futility of negotiating with Americans. Speaking of the United States, we're ready to talk to them, too. We believe that the United States is an important and necessary country for the world. However, their absolutely imperial policy is hurting themselves. It's not even hurting us, it's hurting them, first and foremost, because in the public eye they have to act as an empire and when they're trying to compromise on something their voters see this as a failure that's why the elites

are forced to act in this way as soon as something changes domestically this would establish the fundamental conditions that would allow them to respect others, to respect other countries, to seek compromise rather than use the force and sanctions. Only then will we see the fundamental conditions to establish full-fledged relations with them. So far we see none. This is the adult in the room. I mean, could you imagine Joe Biden sitting there with all those journalists questioning him for four hours with no teleprompter from which to read an answer to a pre-notified question?

Right. Yeah. Look, again, that's a note I think I'd like to echo. Four hours. Four hours he was out talking, taking questions from the media, and he was very clear. And his point is, I don't agree with how he says it in that I think he loses some context of what he states. But, yes, most of what drives this White House's foreign policy, many White House, not just one, but this one in particular, and I think Obama, Trump less so. Trump had his own objectives and could think independently without regard to the hive mind that tries to control Washington. Right.

Putin's correct that most of what Biden does is triangulated or otherwise attenuated by domestic effects, what they believe will play best to the domestic front. And so much of what they do, they act on, is Biden, is reflective of a completely detached understanding of reality. And I think what Putin's trying to say is like, if they actually understood how the world works, maybe they could interact with it. At least I got that undertone. Maybe I'm right. I got the same undertone as you do. I think his critique is similar to yours and McGregor's and Ritter's and mine, that as long as the United States believes it's the indispensable nation, as long as the United States keeps wanting to extend its empire, nobody can sit down and

negotiate with it because it's the bully. One of your former colleagues, not in military intelligence, but in CIA, who occasionally comes on this this program gave an interview to the Sun newspaper in Australia which was picked up by the New York Post and the essence of the newspaper was the Russian president will be overthrown in a black swan palace coup he believes Putin's demise will be at the hands closest to him and he wouldn't be surprised if it happens by the end of the week. What do you think of that? One word. No.

You're actually a lot more charitable than some of your colleagues about what. So I'm look, Putin is a lot of things. But one of the things he is is he's loved by the Russian people. People need to go study. There's one of the things that drives me nuts. Go look at foreign media. I cite, and you know,

you and I do things on Newsmax too. I'm always citing foreign sources because us media won't pick up stuff. It's important. Right. And so I'm citing stuff all the time. It's like, did you got, do you understand?

There's a completely different dialogue going on in Russia about Putin than what's being said here? Putin is loved. Putin is going to stay in power as long as he wants to stay in power. And I don't think anybody has the juice to knock him out without dying in the process or

their organization dying. To his point, he said in his speech, Putin said in his speech, and I'm not a fan. Look, I fought the Cold War. We fought against Putin when he was a Soviet. I'm just saying. But in the context of what he said, he says, we have to understand that the U.S. acts in a certain way

and that in this regard, we, Russia, have not been hurt. Well, that's a big admission. Why isn't somebody actually saying, hey, Putin's saying all those sanctions you did didn't do any good, right? Would that be something that I think the American people would want to know about? The guy we're trying to put sanctions on saying, ah, you guys screwed up. Well, that's a big deal. And he's right because the Russian economy's recovered. They have found alternate markets for their oil and gas.

And it ain't the EU. I think it's a place called China, which last time I heard, Judge, is not one of our big concerns. Isn't that one of our big concerns at all? We're worried about China. So when Jack says these things, do you think this is what the CIA, for whom he was once a very high-ranking official before he retired, and the intelligence community want out there, or is this just Jack being Jack?

No, I think Jack is part of a larger group who actually promotes and thinks this way. Now, how they arrive at these conclusions that they publicly display, I have no idea because I spend a lot of time just reviewing things. My colleagues and I, most of whom you know, we're chatting back and forth. I get, I have an Intel team that develops me, that develops a report I see every morning on several key issues. I'd look at it. I study it. I try to understand it. I, I had it. Look, I, I, I add my snarkiness to my commentary, but my commentary is fundamentally factually correct. When I say something to the

best of my ability, and I don't know what Jack does. I don't know. Uh, uh, uh, Jack don't know intelligence. So I don't know what to say. But do you think that the people for whom Jack once worked want this out there? I do. I do. I do. Because it's not just him. There's a number of folks who reflect this messaging. I don't know if this is a 4 a.m. memo that gets faxed out or sent out via email to folks, but there's a consistency here.

The theme is there's three things in their messaging. Putin's about to fall. Russia, the government's about to collapse. The Russian military is decimated, all three of which are not remotely true. Wow. Tony, it's a pleasure, my dear man, even at the crack of dawn here on the East Coast of the United States.

Thank you. Merry Christmas to you. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. We look forward to working with you again in 2024. All the best. Thank you. Merry Christmas to you. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. We look forward to working with you again in 2024. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, we have a busy day coming up for you at nine o'clock this morning. Matt Ho and who really controls U.S. foreign policy at 11 o'clock this morning. Professor Jeffrey Sachs has just written a dynamite piece entitled U.S. Foreign Policy is a Corrupt Scam. And then, bear with me, at 2 o'clock, Scott Horton, and at 3 o'clock, Karen Kwiatkowski. Judge Napolitano, all times Eastern. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Altyazı M.K.