Judging Freedom - Ukraine Offensive - Land, Air or Sea? w/Scott Horton

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Ukraine Offensive - Land, Air or Sea? w/Scott HortonSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, August 10th, 2023. Scott Horton returns to our cameras. Scott, always a pleasure. Thank you for joining us. Have you sensed at all a slow realization on the part of leaders in the West that Ukraine has lost this war and they all need the Western leaders who backed it, extending radically its bloodiness and destruction they all need an exit ramp yeah well the first part yes the second part no i think they know if you read the journal the times the post um the consensus is that it didn't work they were supposed to break through somehow and make it to the azov coast which even if they'd made it they'd have then been surrounded and trapped and destroyed anyway the whole thing was crazy um in a few

places they said that you know the idea here is we just want to show that we can make some progress so that we build up more support from the west so they give us more money weapons to continue but there is a wide recognition yes judge that the war has failed, that they're not, they'll say in very clear terms, sometimes usually off the record, you know, anonymous claims, but that the war cannot be won by the Ukrainians. They're not going to be able to force the Russian army out of the Donbass. The question is, you know, how much of the four provinces that they've supposedly annexed are they going to be able to keep when they come to a negotiation table? And so but then the idea is that you hear on the second part where you're saying, yeah, and so therefore we got to, you know, start being smart and do the right thing.

No, their answer is just keep fighting until. You know, I mean, on the on the logical front, the army is getting weaker and weaker all the time. But they look at it like, no, the Russians are. Yeah, they say the Russians are getting weaker and weaker. And so eventually we'll get to the Ukrainians are in a position of strength and then we'll negotiate from a position of strength. But it's just not right. Of course, it's absurd. I mean, politically, can Joe Biden keep this up until November of 24?

And the Ukrainians are getting slaughtered. The spring offensive has failed, which became the summer offensive, which which failed. They attacked a civilian Russian ship carrying rain. How much farther can Joe Biden go with any credibility? Yeah, I mean, you put your finger right on the question here. It has nothing to do with what's right for America's national interest, what's right for Ukraine, what's right for world peace, what's right for Joe Biden's personal political interest. He dug himself into a pit and now he has no choice but to keep digging because he can't be seen to admit that he made a wrong choice before the big election. And so, but right, it's still a year and a half away. What's going to happen to the Ukrainian army

between now and then, Judge? So it's a disaster. It's horrible. So the Russians have three lines of defense. The Ukrainians have not only not breached the first line, they haven't even reached the first line. And yet and yet we're going to play a clip of President Zelensky claiming they're going to recapture Crimea. This is the most absurd things he's said. Watch this. Today, I held a meeting on the content of our return policy, specifically regarding Crimea and its reintegration. It is obvious that after the liberation of Crimea from occupation, economic opportunities, personal security for people, and a sense of real freedom, which has not been there since 2014, will return there.

But all of this should not be just abstract. Every detail of the deoccupation of Crimea should have a specific meaning. How exactly normal life returns, what exactly this means for Crimea and for all our people, this should be clear to everyone. Step by step, we are making the deoccupation of Crimea

more and more achievable and well thought out. This is either the rantings of a madman or deliberate lying for domestic political purposes. Sure, yeah, it's just political posturing that like, hey, everybody hang in there. We're not giving up yet. And in fact, we have these long term goals that we're going to, as they put it, liberate every inch of Ukrainian soil. But it's just clear that they're not going to. And in fact, this whole time, they blamed a lack of Western equipment for their failure in the offensive, or even for the delay in launching the offensive, which then they say the delay is what

caused the Russians to be able to build up such extensive defenses. But the thing is, it was just the weather judge. It was supposed to be the winter offensive, but it never got cold enough for the ground to really freeze, which is the question is how much mud on the step, right? And so, and then all through the spring, it was wet. So they had to wait until June for the ground to finally dry out enough. They can take their armor out on the, off the roads. And so by that time, as you said, the Russian defenses were so built up. And then the whole time the Ukrainians were building up an offensive capability there, which is already broken on Russian defenses. They were not building up their defenses.

So when I talked to Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Davis, the great Afghan war whistleblower They were not building on their side. So we've been interviewing some of the presidential candidates, RFK Jr., who agrees with everything you and I have been saying, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who's a real war hawk, but is realistic about Ukrainians' losses. And a few days ago, Larry Elder, a longtime friend of mine, I don't think he has a chance, but he's in the race. Here's what he said about Ukraine. Ukraine, where are you on that? Well, Putin has already lost this war. I watch a lot of the experts. Putin has lost the war? He's already lost. My God, this thing was supposed to be wrapped up in a matter of days, if not weeks. This is now deep into the second year. He's lost 200,000 troops. By American terms,

that would be as if we lost 400,000. About 20 generals have been either killed on the battlefield or disappeared. He had a quasi insurrection. His economy is in free fall. He's looking for an off ramp. And in my opinion, we ought to put pressure on both sides to give him one and end this thing. So I don't know if he is emblematic of the american public deluded by the mainstream media which parrots whatever cia and mi6 want them to say or if he graduate of a top law school and an otherwise intelligent person really believes that nonsense well i think a lot of what he said is true judge the war was supposed to be easy and it

wasn't uh it is a year and a half into the war now when he says 200 000 that's not dead that's total casualties i think that's probably you know within the ballpark um the problem is he's leaving out the ukrainian side of the ledger where I guess everything is going fine over there, but that's just not right. At the end of the day, Russia is a far bigger country, a wealthier country, and a much more populous country with a much larger store of armor and ammo to start with and to go on. The thing is, and look, I mean, think about what we're just talking about with the summer offensive here, where the Ukrainian, that's an offensive not by Russia, by Ukraine against Russian defenses on the territory they've already seized. Now, it's true that they used to control more territory than they do, and they gave up Kharkiv or lost Kharkiv and Kherson, but they still control virtually all of Luhansk and probably two thirds of Donetsk and at least half,

maybe more of Zaporozhye and Kherson. And they can't be dislodged from there. And so, you know, it's sort of like the Sunnis want to kick the Shiites out of Baghdad. Too late. George Bush already gave it to them. And there's no taking, you can fling suicide bombers at it from now on. You're never taking it back, not in 500 years, 100 anyway. Same thing here. It's too late for the far east of Ukraine. So he makes some points, but he leaves out the rest.

Here's what I want to explore with you. Why does he leave out the rest. Here's what I want to explore with you. Why does he leave out the rest? Why does the war party, which is about 95% of both houses of Congress, still believe in this nonsense? Republicans know that Joe Biden can't compose an English sentence. Democrats know it but won't admit it. But they'll give him whatever he needs to fight this war. Now, when Mrs. Pelosi, in her wisdom, air quotes, got him $113 billion blank check, we don't know how much of it he's spent. The Pentagon says they've spent between $48 and $50 billion. The other estimates are between $68 and $75 billion.

The Pentagon keeps finding a few billion more as they reevaluate the value of what we've shipped over there. The bottom line is he probably has enough cash to keep funding the war between now and election day. So it almost doesn't matter what the war party thinks. But I think what Larry Elder said, Putin has already lost the war. A blind eye toward the catastrophic losses and probable consequences of those losses in Ukraine is accepted by most members of both houses of both par in both parties in Congress. Why are we, are we, are we just deluded by CIA and MI6 leaking to their acolytes in the press? Well, you know, yes, I believe, I don't know who's we, but yes, they are. Not you, not you and I, and not the people watching us. Thank you for correcting me. I stand corrected.

Well, yeah. No, I'm sorry. I don't mean to nitpick. Some people are worse grammar and national socialists than me on that. But I slip up and call the U.S. government we sometimes, too. But the reality is. And they love it when we do that. Yeah.

You know, I saw a thing this morning, Judge, from John Stossel about global warming and how they all believe in it because it's their job. And it doesn't even matter how true or false it is. It's just that's the racket. And so if you're in TV news, then you're part of the war party. You believe in the mission. That goes for every anchor and every host or they wouldn't be on there pretty much. Yes. Stossel, as is always the case, right on the mark.

Yeah. And so it's the same with the war. It's the same with the COVID stuff. The same with, you know, look at the Russiagate hoax. I mean, they insisted that Trump was a traitor for three years when not one atom of that story was true. None of it was true. And so it's, and look at Iraq war two. I mean, they pretended judge Iraq was going to attack us if we don't preemptively invade and conquer their country first. Can you imagine a load of crap bigger than that? And they got people to

just believe it. And why? Because that's what everybody says. That's the consensus. My science teacher believes it. And my coach believes it. My minister believes it. And my dad believes it. And all his friends believe it. And this is what we believe. How is it that the West so underestimated Putin and overestimated either Ukraine or its own willingness to back Ukraine? Does the CIA, is it lousy at what it does? Does it put political spin on what it does so that Western leaders will only hear from Western intelligence what Western intelligence thinks Western leaders want to hear rather than the unvarnished truth? Well, that's for sure. Yeah. But remember, the idea at the beginning here was that if Russia invades on whatever percent likelihood you gave that, they're going to win and they're going to win fast. And whether they're going to get a full regime change or what, they're going to smash the Ukrainian army and then they'll have their way. And the idea was from all of the multi-sources, I got a giant collection of them, all of them said over and over again that the plan was red

dawn. The plan was we were going to back the Ukrainian Mujahideen led by the neo-Nazi brigades and they were going to fight an insurgency, a rearguard action against the immediate successful Russian invasion. So the Ukrainians have done much better than everyone anticipated as far as holding their army together and keeping their civilian government in power. have said has ported tens of billions of dollars, I think right around $100 billion worth of weapons have gotten there and have been embezzled since then. And so I think that the CIA is probably telling Biden that, you know, if you want your position of strength, that shit probably already sailed, but you're in as best position as you're going to get now. But the other option is just keep fighting to the last Ukrainian. And honestly, like, what does Joe Biden care if Kiev loses Kharkiv and Odessa? What does he care if matters get worse and worse and worse for the population of the, you know, ethnic Ukrainians and Ukrainian speakers in the land from Kiev to Lviv there,

if it costs the Russians more. And if you listen to the way the Democrats talk about this, that to them is what matters, is that this is costing the Russians. But in fact, the Russians are building up their military force to much larger than it ever was before. So they're not achieving their goals. The American establishment, Victoria Nuland and Jake Sullivan and Antony Blinken and that crowd think they can use Ukraine as a battering ram to chase President Putin from office. I mean, there were times when I wish I was in the White House press corps and I could stand up and say, Mr. President, you've been saying you're going to support Ukraine for as long as it takes. As long as it takes to do what? He can't answer that. But they, not being precise, I think want to use Ukraine as a battering ram to chase President Putin from office. That is not an

achievable military objective. President Putin is stronger politically, and the Russian economy is fine, notwithstanding the McDonald's and Starbucks have closed down in Moscow. Right. You know what? I mean, it sounds completely crazy, but you might remember about a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, there was an article in NBC. This isn't the crazy part. The article in NBC about Richard Haass, the former, I guess he's the outgoing president of the side of that story, more to it. And they were quoting the Americans in this story, not the Russian said to the Moscow Times reporter that, you know, if we could build up an opposition inside Russia to get rid of Putin, that would still be a much better alternative. We'd like to pursue that. What? This is the, anyone could tell you that that means an increase in the risk of nuclear war by some tens of percents. Who's willing to risk that? Right. It's completely crazy.

So yesterday, this is symbolic, but there's like with much symbolism, there's substance behind it. The Polish government removed Ukrainian flags from Polish government buildings, most notably the Polish parliament building. Perhaps their finger, their itchy finger is off the trigger for the first time in this whole escapade. Perhaps they're looking at Belarus rather than entering the war, I don't know. But I thought I'd throw that out there. Also wanna throw this out to you. This is President Putin earlier today

thanking Chancellor Scholz by name for sending some tanks, which they had to dig out of storage from an arms dealer. These aren't even top of the line German tanks. These are tanks that the German army had rejected. Today, we have good news from Germany, exactly what we agreed upon with Olaf Scholz. We have additional Patriot launching stations. I thank Germany and Mr. Chancellor personally for fulfilling this agreement. It will definitely save thousands of lives of our people. It will definitely bring us closer to creating a full fledged sky shield for Ukraine. We work to ensure that our defenders

of the sky have more air defense systems and missiles for them. Our entire territory needs much more air defense systems than we have now. I have no doubt that F-16S will be in our skies. So I guess this is again for domestic political consumption. Maybe it's somewhat flattering to mention Chancellor Scholz by name, but basically the tanks are garbage. The German government wouldn't even use them. And they're not going to provide an air defense. 30 tanks at this late stage of the game is not even going to be a pinprick on the Russians. Yeah, well, I mean, on all of these points, you're hitting right on the crux of the matter here is that this could escalate. There

are numerous ways, as you mentioned before, attacks on Russian shipping in the Black Sea, that could escalate. There's a, on antiwar.com today, Judge, there's a story about how the Polish border guard asked for a thousand more men for reinforcements and the government sent them 2,000 more in the name of, they're worried about now the wagner group is building up in belarus after their failed little putsch there against the military leader and and their exile to belarus and there's been numerous rumors and even like some on the record discussion of the possibility of poland invading to help, but moving into former Polish territory

in far Western Ukraine, in which case Ukraine is going to have a real hard time getting them to leave. If they do invite them in, I bet. But, you know, Poland is, of course, a member of NATO. And, you know, whatever the Russians do to react against poland then they'll be able to say oh see it's an attack on us and now you have to help defend us even if they're the ones escalating and well this is you know our colleague our on-air colleague elster crooker comments that the polls would love nothing more than a chunk of lithuania and a chunk of Western Ukraine, which was once a part of Poland. Yeah, well, it's the Kosovo precedent. Now it's the Kosovo and Ukraine precedent that these guys, if they want to change borders with violence, maybe they'll go for it. We have a major problem

here. People pull up a map if you don't know, but there's a little strip of land on the Baltic Sea called Kaliningrad, which is kind of sandwiched between Lithuania and Poland. And it's a Russian military base. It's Russian territory. And if you're looking from the east, west, then it's behind NATO lines. It's completely landlocked away from Russia by Belarus and Lithuania. And they allow a railroad corridor through there for Russian resupply for their military base. But at the start of the war, a few months into the war a year ago, the Lithuanians started to ban certain Russian shipments of goods, concrete and other goods to the base in the name of enforcing EU sanctions. This is part of what started World War II, was the Poles not letting the Germans get to Danzig through their corridor. How much longer do you think the violence, the bloodshed, the war will go on? Oh, Judge, I really don't know.

I honestly, I'm just beside myself. I can't believe that there is a single priority on this planet for all 8 billion of us Earthlings, you know, sentient beings, above this issue. We should be all chanting, all 8 billion of us chanting at once, we demand a ceasefire. Right now, whatever the chance is, I'm not good at chance. But the fact that this firefight has been allowed to continue right on Russia's Western border in Europe like this, with all of the potential consequences of thermonuclear war being escalated, as we all know, is just sick and insane and intolerable. It should be the absolute highest priority of every libertarian, every conservative, every populist, every liberal, every progressive, every leftist. Everyone in this country who's not getting Lockheed dividend checks in the mail. This is our fight to do something to pressure our government to bring this war to an end.

Let Biden run on that he negotiated wisely how about that scott yeah you're become so you're becoming so popular with uh judging freedom fans where can they find you other than when you're on here well i got a youtube channel i'm uh scott Horton show here on YouTube. I've got 6,000 interviews judge going back 20 years, the Scott Horton show on YouTube and at my website, scotthorton.org. I'm the director of the libertarian Institute. And this is our fundraiser right now.

Everybody, if you like what you hear, we got Sheldon Richmond and James Bovard and Lori Calhoun and great Ted Galen Carpenter, the best guy at Cato got fired for being too good. And now he writes for me at libertarianinstitute.org. And, of course, I'm the editorial director of antiwar.com, the most important project on the Internet. And all those people you named are mutual friends of yours and mine.

Thank you very much for joining us today, Scott. We'll have you back real soon. Thank you very much, Judge. OK, if you like what you saw, and I suspect you do, like and subscribe. I was wrong on the numbers the other day. We're up to 182,000 subscriptions. Our goal is 200,000 by Labor Day, 250,000 by Christmas. Like, subscribe, tell a friend, more as we get it. For those of you who love, who hate Jack Devine, I just want to make sure I have the time right this afternoon. Come on,

where's my calendar? Jack Devine, right here, three o'clock today. More as we get it. We're going to play some clips from former CIA colleagues of his who are not very flattering about him. More as we get it. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.