Judging Freedom - Ukraine or Russian Offensive - Which will it be_ w_ SCOTT RITTER

Episode Date: April 6, 2023

Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, April 6, 2023, Holy Thursday in the Christian calendar, the first day of Passover for our Jewish brethren. It's about five after one in the afternoon here on the east coast of the United States. Scott Ritter joins us today. Scott, always a pleasure. Thank you for coming to us. Since we were last together, President Putin received the official credentials of the new United States ambassador to Russia. He did so in the presence of other new ambassadors and some already seated Western ambassadors. And he said something which I've not heard him say before. The reason we have a war in Ukraine is because of the United States. The United States fomented and succeeded in a coup to overthrow the Ukrainian government, the so-called color revolution in 2014. And it's about time everybody knew that.

Surprised that President Putin was that candid on the international stage? Because prior to that, Russia announced its new foreign policy, which is predicated on its stepping away from the West and self-declaring themselves to be a major center of world influence. And in doing so, Russia no longer plays nice with the West. Russia has for some time tried to be a partner with the West, to work with the West, to integrate with the West. Russia has for some time tried to be a partner with the West, to work with the West, to integrate with the West. But the West has not only rejected Russia, but has declared war against Russia. And so I knew when he made the announcement of this new Russian foreign policy definition that it would have an impact on how Russia postures globally. And this is it. Russia's done playing nice with the West.

No more diplomatic speeches. No more trying to work things out behind the scenes. They're going to call it as they see it. And who can take umbrage of what Putin said? This is a war created by the United States. He's 100% correct. About three weeks ago, the FBI arrested a guy who they say is named Sergei Cherkosov. He claimed he was a Brazilian soccer star. They arrested him in the US. They say he's FSB and is engaged in espionage. About two weeks later,

Wall Street Journal published an article saying the sanctions are beginning to hurt and bite in Russia. And about a week after that, the author of that article, an American young man from New Jersey, was arrested by the FSB, claiming he had military secrets in his hands. Are all of these connected? Is this a new diplomacy of kidnap, arrest, trade, kidnap, arrest, trade? Well, I'd have to see the specifics. I mean, I know what the charges are against each individual. You know, is the FBI in the business of rolling people up without cause? Sometimes. Is the FSB in the business of rolling people up without cause, perhaps. I think the case against the Wall Street Journal journalist is rock solid.

My understanding is that he had received classified documents that he was specifically requesting information relating to the production of specific kinds of weapons done at a top secret facility in the vicinity of the city that he was arrested in. And if this is the case, he has to understand this isn't the United States. You can't just go around receiving classified information and hiding behind First Amendment protections. If you seek and receive classified information in violation of Russian law on Russian territory. You're a spy. You're committing espionage.

It's not journalism. Now, we'll let this play out in the courts. We'll see what the Russians do. No matter what they do in the United States, of course, they're going to be attacked as this is baseless. You already heard the president come out, et cetera. And we'll see what the FBI does. What's their case against this Brazilian soccer star- star slash FSB agent. We'll let it play out. But the bottom line is that's where we're at now. We're in Cold War 2.0, where we're going to

be snatching people on any pretext. And then we're going to be engaged in the lengthy process of spy swaps. Has the FSB penetrated the United States? Of course they have, just like we have penetrated them. And what are they? I mean, they're not Russian law enforcement like the FBI is, unless I'm wrong. They're Russian intel, right? No, the FSB is the Federal Security Bureau. They are the equivalent of the FBI, but with a broader foreign mandate. They, for instance, have jurisdiction over what they call the near abroad, the former Soviet republics. And they do counterintelligence work here in the united states but the the the main guys i would be surprised that there's an actual fsb agent operating uh undercover the way they talked about that's the

job of the svr the uh the foreign intelligence branch or the gru the military intelligence branch so um we'll we'll we'll see but the uh you know the people that uh that that run agents on the soil of the united states are primarily GRU and SVR. The FSB is more of a counterintelligence security group. It's just like the FBI very rarely does human agent running abroad. They're primarily a domestic law enforcement counterintelligence organization. The assassination of Tartarski by blowing him up from a bomb that was inside a statue of himself

that a young woman gave him. She then sits down in the first or second row. The bomb explodes. She's probably going to say, somebody just handed it to me. I didn't know there was a bomb in there otherwise why would i be seated here whatever uh tartarski was to as i understand it president putin's right on the political spectrum a nationalist that wanted an

even heavier hand than the president putin is using in ukraine similar to the father of Daria Dugina, the father was the target, Daria ended up being killed. Is this the style of Ukraine intel? And if it is, what conceivable purpose does it serve? It's a pinprick as far as Putin is concerned, I would think. Well, it's definitely the work of the SBU, the Ukrainian intelligence services. You know, the Russian FSB is very good at what they do. And they were forensic. They forensically deconstructed the Darya Dugina assassination plot. And they have made amazing progress in terms of deconstructing what forensically what happened with uh um you know mr foman maxine foman tatarsky's is uh non-deguerre um it you know what what good it's it's it's a vehicle of intimidation uh it's the same thing uh you know why does the center for countering disinformation the uh agency working

for the president of ukraine publish a blacklist that uh that that puts out the names of Americans. I'm number one on the list, by the way, accusing us of being terrorists, of being war criminals, et cetera. I'm also on the Mir Tverets list, the same list that Darya Dugina and Maxim Fomin were on. I'm marked for death. I think what they're trying to do is intimidate people, scare them. I'm only smiling, not because you're on that list,

but because Colonel McGregor told us you were on that list and in the same breath said, Ritter's a tough guy. He can take care of himself. Look, the bottom line is if they want to get you, they're going to get you. So I'm not losing any sleep over it. I take precautions. I do things that I'm not losing any sleep over it. I take precautions. I do things that I was trained to do a while ago. I'm 61 years old. So any notion of me engaging in close quarter combat with people on some sort of Rambo type thing, no,

if they want to get me, they're going to get me. But what they're not going to do is intimidate me. They're not going to do is get me to become silent. And the thing that irritates me isn't just that the Ukrainian government's doing it. We're paying them. We organized the Center for Countering Disinformation. This is a proxy effort by the United States government to silence Americans with an opposing point of view, with a dissenting point of view. And that's problematic. I mean, you know, we expect... Problematic? It's more than problematic. It's a direct violation of the First Amendment for the American government to lift a finger or spend a dime, a nickel, a penny on silencing or chilling the rights of any free speech of any person, American or not, in America. Reprehensible. I'm not saying that because we're friends and colleagues. I'm saying it because

that is a fair and essentially unassailable interpretation and is the current interpretation of the First Amendment. I want to go east for a few minutes and then I want to bring you back to Ukraine. The Speaker of the House of Representatives, Kevin McCarthy, entertained the president of Taiwan at Simi Valley, California, at the Reagan Library, at the same time that Representative Mike McCaul, the chair of the House Armed Services Committee, stood in Taiwan and said, we want to harden Taiwan. First McCaul and then McCarthy. McCaul is in a press conference environment, appears to be at an airport. McCarthy's on Fox News. Take a listen to both. Being here, I think, sends a signal to the Chinese Communist Party that the United States supports Taiwan and that we're going to harden Taiwan. And we want

them to think twice about invading Taiwan. Very bipartisan meeting. We had Republicans and Democrats here speaking with one voice. And you know what? We need to speed up our weapon sales to Taiwan. Have we learned anything what's happening around the world? Let them defend themselves. Deter the ability of China to enter Taiwan. We need to be able to foster greater democracy and freedom. We need to be able to work together economically from the chip manufacturing and others. I found it a very productive meeting. It's the first time a Speaker of the House has ever met with a Taiwanese president on American soil, but I think it was very important in a bipartisan manner, almost 20 members together meeting. All right. So McCaul, he doesn't make policy,

but he does control the Pentagon budget. We want to harden Taiwan. McCarthy, there are Democrats here. Okay. There's one party in Congress, it's called the War Party, no surprise. And they're in favor of this. Needless provocation, political posturing, pandering to the crowd back home, or a sign of things to come? Just straight up stupidity. You know, let's just imagine we erase the dates and we erase Taiwan and replace it with Ukraine. This is the exact same rhetoric that people like these two said in the years leading up to the Ukraine conflict. Giving the Ukrainians the same false hope. We're about democracy.

We're going to harden Ukraine. We're going to make Ukraine part of NATO. We're here for you, buddies. We're never going to abandon you. Now look what happened to Ukraine. And the difference is now with Taiwan taiwan is a this president lost a major midterm election back in 2022. her party got trounced when she tried to push aggressive policies against uh you know mainland china she's up for re-election in 2024 she's probably going to get beat by the koman tang who aren't meeting with mccarthy aren't meeting with mccall but are across

the straits in china making good with the communist party that Mr. McCaul belittles. America is the world's worst friend, and the Taiwanese know this. All they have to do is take a look at the TV screen and see what happened to Ukraine when it was backed by America, when it was hardened by America, when America was with them promoting democracy. America slaughtered Ukraine. We've slaughtered 400,000 Ukrainians destroyed, and the smart-thinking Taiwanese are saying that is not going to be our future. So this is just American politicians being straight up stupid. Now, I'm hoping the American people can see through this nonsense. I know the Taiwanese people are seeing through it.

And the Chinese Communist Party that Mr. McCall belittles, they don't care about him because at the end of the day, he's a nobody. He controls the Pentagon budget. That's it. He doesn't control anything else. And Chinese aren't intimidated by the Pentagon budget, by him, or any words that come out of his mouth or Mr. McCarthy's mouth. Last night, the White House revealed that the president authorized another $2.8 billion, with a B, in military equipment to make its way to Ukraine. It appears to be most of that is HIMARS. More of the same. Where is it getting us? What's it going to accomplish? Well, I mean, it's going to further strip away, I think 500 million of that comes directly from our stockpiles. So again, for the average American, listen, let me tell you what's happening. They're taking weapons that we, your taxpayer dollars, went to procure and

stockpile so that if we ever had to go to war, we had weapons. We're taking these weapons from our stockpile. We're taking them away from American troops at a time, by the way, when McCarthy and McCaul, those great Americans, are talking about the potential for conflict with China. So rather than stockpiling the weapons, we're giving them away to Ukraine, who is defeated. Their army is crushed. These weapons didn't make a difference previously. They're not going to make a difference now. They're just going to result in more dead Ukrainians in a weaker America. Thank you, Joe Biden. What is the significance? Let's go back to Ukraine since you brought us there. What is the significance of the now near universally accepted fall of Bakhmut? Our

friend and colleague, Colonel McGregor, argues that the Russians brilliantly induced or seduced more Ukraine troops into the defense of Bakhmut than it was really worth. And President Zelensky and his military commanders foolishly sent more human beings there that now came back in body bags than was worth in a losing effort? Well, first of all, I'll take umbrage that the Ukrainians were foolish here. The Bakhmut-Solidar complex, because Solidar was a sister city to the north of Bakhmut, each of them have deep underground salt mines that enhance the defensibility of this. They've been dug in forever. I could have made a case that the Ukrainians were seeking to break the back of the Russian army by defending this, the most defensible space in Ukraine, by digging in and forcing the Russians to come at them in urban combat, some of the most difficult combat, that the Ukrainians were saying,

we can break their back. Therefore, we can break the will of their army, the will of their people. We can bring this fighting to a close. We can drive Russia to the negotiating table. So I understand completely what the Ukrainians were trying to do. The problem is they were up against the Russian army, not just the Russian army, Wagner. And Wagner is a unique force with a unique set of combat skills and a unique ethos about fighting. And Wagner just ground these guys up. I mean, they slaughtered them. And at some point in time, if you're the Ukrainians, you have to say, do we continue

to double down on stupid, meaning what we're doing isn't working, we're losing, we don't have a solution, that we're just replaying the same death and destruction over again. Maybe we should fall back on. But they politically committed. And what's happened is, and Colonel McGregor's right, the Russians have broken the back of the Ukrainian army. The Ukrainian army will never recover from Bakhmut. The number of dead is mind-boggling to the Western mind. And the resources that were poured into that.

Ukraine put everything they have into that fight, and Wagner beat them. Here's our friend Jack Devine, who, of course, takes a different position on the progress of Russian forces westward. The he, H-E, to whom Devine refers several times in the second half of this clip is obviously President Putin. This will get under your skin, Scott. In the last two months, you were telling me these great wizards of war were saying the Russians have the 300,000 man army and they're going to roll right over Ukraine. Here we are. 150,000 troops went in and they may or may not have taken the town. I mean, he is having a hard time. This is not victory. This anybody that thinks he's won something.

God bless you. But I mean, I don't know how I could hold my head and invade a country and move a few kilometers. You know, so I think he's in trouble. I think he's in serious trouble. That's why there's a fight between the regular military and the Wagner group. That's a lot to unpack, Scott, but go ahead. I mean, you know, Mr. Devine obviously has bought into a certain narrative. It's a narrative that's void of military foundation.

It's an ideological narrative. He's misrepresented this fight. It's, hey, Jack, when you're in a traditional warfare thing, attrition, it's a word, look it up. I know the CIA has dictionaries. Look it up. It's not about taking land. It's about word. Look it up. I know the CIA has dictionaries. Look it up. It's not about taking land. It's about grinding the enemy down. So if you're in a nutritional battle and you kill 80,000 of them and you lose 30,000 guys, you've won a major victory, Jack. And so that's what

they've been doing. They've won it. For a CIA guy, he doesn't know much about Vladimir Putin. He doesn't know much about Russia. He doesn't know much about about the Russian strategy. I think, again, you know, I respect him. I respect what he did for his country. And I'm not here. I apologize if anything I just said came off as denigrating Mr. Devine. But he's wrong. He's dead wrong. But the proof is in the pudding. I mean, the beauty of things like this is I just wait and the facts will come to me. They're not, they're moving away from him. They're moving away from all the people that were, you know, trumping up the Ukrainians saying they were going to do X, Y, and Z

because they were under the perception that, you know, when people like myself said Russia was going to win fast early on, that's because we thought Russia was going to invade. But when Russia came in with a special military operation, we've had this discussion before, the timeline, it's thrown out the window. So what Jack Devine and others don't understand is Russia's not working from a calendar. Russia's working from results. And the results 100% favor Russia.

There's not a single military expert out there that will tell you that the momentum is with Russia, the trajectory is on Russia's side. And there's no chance right now for Ukraine to flip that script. Matt Van Dyke is the young American that from time to time we interview from the field in Ukraine. He works with a group of veterans, he tells us, who are looking for unexploded mines and neutralizing them.

And also from time to time helping to train rear end, if you will, Ukrainian units. But he spent a week or two at the front lines. He came back. We spoke with him this morning. I asked him about Bakhmut and its failure and whether the battle was worth it. Take a listen. Whether Bakhmut was worth it is something that historians will debate.

We're not going to know that until we see the outcome of the rest of the war. It certainly has been high in casualties. It was given attention instead of a Ukrainian counteroffensive in the winter. But I think that Russia isn't pushing an offensive because Putin's game is to wait it out, similar to how Assad in Syria just waited until the world lost interest. I think that's Putin's playbook for this. What do you think? He may have his finger on something. That Putin is a master of patience. Putin is a master of winning.

Sometimes winning requires patience. It definitely requires you not to uh be lured into a trap or to do things precipitously to do things before you're ready to do them but i always laugh when people talk about putin's playbook hey matt publish it man you'd make a million bucks um because no one has putin's playbook except putin and and to miss you know again he's misrepresented to think that all russia did is sit in Syria means you have total ignorance about what happened in Syria. Russia, together with the Syrian army, routed the various insurgent groups. Damascus used to be surrounded by ISIS and Al-Qaeda groups that

controlled entire neighborhoods. Not anymore. Daraa region used to be under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood. Not anymore. They've all been cleaned up and pushed to the north That's not called sitting down That's called winning And you know who did it? The Russians did it So Matt just doesn't know what he's talking about Putin's playbook is patience

But you don't sit there Sitting implies you're doing nothing The Russians are very active All you have to take a look is ask the Ukrainians, you know, how many men they're losing every day, how much equipment they're losing, what damage is being done. That's not being done because the Russians are sitting there. It's being done because the Russians are actively kicking Ukrainians. And, again, I'll just say that, Matt, I know you took umbrage at this before, but go home. You're going to die.

Straight up die. A lot of your fellow Americans and foreigners are dying now. The combat's just going to get worse. Go home. Do yourself a favor. You're not going to win this conflict. Here's what he said when I asked him because he told us he's going back to the front lines. I asked him why. Watch this us he's going back to the front lines. And I asked him why.

Watch this. Why are you joining another unit? Why are you risking your life? You were almost killed once in Libya, more than once. You were almost killed in whatever you just did that we all respect. You can't tell us in detail in eastern Ukraine. Why would you, a young kid from the U.S., do this? I fight for causes I believe in, and I believe in this cause. This is about the freedom of a democratic country that

was invaded by a tyrant and by Russia. To me, it's a pretty black and white situation. So it's something I believe in, something I'm going to do. I'm not just training people to go fight if I'm not willing to go do it myself. I don't think that's propaganda. I think he's speaking from his heart, Scott. However, ill-advised, as the priests would say, however wrongly formed his conscience is, I think he really believes that. Yeah, I'm not here to denigrate his credibility in terms of accurately expressing what he believes. I will say this. Matt Van Dyke has never been in the U.S. military, ever.

He is not the kind of person that the Ukrainian military puts into combat. There's been a lot of press given lately to people who have hyped up their thing. I'm not accusing them of doing this, but I think Matt needs to be careful. Operate within your boundaries. There's a reason why the Ukrainians don't integrate you into their armed forces because you are not qualified to be in their armed forces. You haven't received the training. You don't have the tactical knowledge. whatever skill set you think you're imparting to people it's a skill set that's going to lead them to die because you're miss you're misleading them into believing they possess certain functionalities related to a combat that you don't have the ability to to put on

i've put together military training missions before and uh matt uh i i know what he did in libya i i appreciate his heart. I appreciate his courage. I'm not doubting that, but I'm just telling you straight up, this man doesn't know anything about war, about fighting modern war. It's now Easter time in Europe. So the weather's getting warmer. What should we expect in the next two or three months before summer is upon us? Lots of dead Ukrainians, tragically. More dead Ukrainians, more blown up Ukrainian infrastructure, continued Russian advances. I find it problematic if Ukraine is going to be able to launch a major counteroffensive.

I don't think they have the troops. I don't think they have the equipment um they don't have the momentum um when bachmuth finally collapses there's going to be a giant hole in the ukrainian line that's going to be filled they're going to have to go up and defend trust in the yarsk before the russians uh run in and and seize it um this this war judge i've told you before this war will be over by August, between August, September, and October of this year. I firmly believe that. And we are on a trajectory to achieve that outcome on that timetable. And Joe Biden and the American government and those in Langley CIA and Pentagon who agree with, have no credible off-ramp. Am I right?

No. I mean, they're not even trying. That's the sad part. Again, once again, the United States is sacrificing Ukrainians for our failed policy, just like we sacrificed the Afghans prior to this. People understand that Biden had made a decision um you know that we were pulling out we were abandoning afghanistan we made that in the spring of uh 2021 and biden left the afghans believing up until the last day that we were there we weren't going to pull out we were behind them and the end result were tens of thousands of afghan soldiers who bravely fought and died for a cause that we abandoned. How many lives could we have saved if we just told the truth up front saying, we're done, we're leaving,

let's have a peaceful end to this conflict. But instead, we maintain the perception of American engagement. And that's what's going on right now. It's a perception, but the Ukrainians know that they're on the cusp of being abandoned, not only by the United States, but by the West. Aside from President Xi's suggestion of a ceasefire in the presence of President Putin two weeks ago, is there any talk, I assume below the surface, it was above the surface, we ceasefire? Is there any communication of which you're aware, three-way, Ukrainian, Russian, American, on ending this? No, what we have is Emmanuel Macron and Wanderlei and the European commissioner in China begging Xi to announce his engagement in Xi's asylum

because the conditions aren't right for a ceasefire the Ukrainians still believe that somehow a miracle is going to happen we have Zelensky traveling to Poland talking about a post-conflict confederation where what's left of Ukraine is going to join with Poland to become this giant central European nation state. But that just shows how desperate he is right now because he knows that everybody else is abandoning him. So he's willing to sacrifice Western Ukraine to Poland for one last fleeting hope of survival. But it's over. It's over. Russia is going to win and Russia is going to win big. Scott Ritter, always a great good night to your friend. Have a happy Easter, you and your family.

All the best. We'll see you again soon. Thank you very much. More as we get it. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.