Judging Freedom - Ukraine, Russia and the Intel community - Larry Johnson

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

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Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, May 1st, 2023. It's about three o'clock in the afternoon here on the East Coast of the United States. Larry Johnson joins us now. Larry, always a pleasure. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Raj. Have you discovered any additional evidence that would inform your opinion that Jack Teixeira, the person the government says is solely responsible for the leak of classified documents, which the Washington Post seems to be coming out with almost every day now. In fact, it's not solely responsible and may in fact be an unwitting dupe of a controlled leak. Yeah, there's certainly, I think, more circumstantial evidence pointing to the controlled leak theory. For starters, it looks like the british version of the national security agency it's called gchq and uh gchq was in communication apparently with the nsa last year about they had apparently identified some of this material that was showing up on a this social media chat

and they did nothing about it and nothing was done about this trying to close it down until Bellingcat, this journalist outfit that is a creature and creation of British MI6, until they identified the leaker and then hyped the material. This material was not easy to find until the media, this coordinated media campaign to get it out there. Because on the one hand, this was like that scene from Casablanca where the police inspector was claiming to be shocked that there was gambling in the casino. Well, they were shocked that these highly classified documents were out there, and yet they were doing everything in their power to get it out there. So that's the first thing.

Let me try and unpack this. You and I are, from a prior instance, quite familiar with GCHQ. Correct. This is the British domestic spying apparatus. They became aware of something out there and they identified Teixeira and they informed their partners at NSA? Yes, that's what I've heard. And what did NSA, if anything, do about this? Nothing. And that's the point. Both GCHQ and NSA, as well as CAA, had the power that they could have gotten in there without drawing attention to it, quietly shut this down, and started the investigation to it. You know, they were able to identify Texera, and they didn't.

They waited until they allowed this belling cat to come out, and all of a sudden, oh, look, this is where he is and this is what he's doing. It is just that they keep hearing, that they keep discovering, oh, there are more documents posted. I haven't seen them. I doubt if you've seen them. And there's not a website you can go to where they're all posted up and lined up nicely. And then this gets to the charges against DeCerro. They're trying to accuse him of alienage.

There is zero evidence that he was taking this information and trying to sell it to a foreign entity, that he was trying to act on behalf of a foreign entity. He was showing off for his buddies on this track. That was it. So, mishandling classified information. Yeah, just like Hillary Clinton. Just like Sandy Berger, just like David Petraeus. But, you know, they want to put this kid in prison. Let other free. Right. So here's the head scratcher. British intelligence knew about this.

American intelligence knew about this. American intelligence knew about this. Why would American intelligence do nothing about it unless whoever was making the decisions wanted this out there and wanted it to look as if the 21-year-old part-time National Guardsman in Cape Cod, Massachusetts was the culprit? Well, if you're monitoring what he's doing over a period of time and you see the kind of information that's being posted up, then you can choose the time and place of the leak. I firmly believe now, more so than I did, that the timing of this leak was designed to bring out the disagreement

that Cy Hersh has reported on within the intelligence and military communities about the direction of U.S. policy in Ukraine. They recognize that we're heading for a catastrophe, and it's not going to be a catastrophe for Russia. It'll be a catastrophe for the United States and for NATO. Notwithstanding what Secretary of Defense Austin has said publicly, and we'll run this clip in a minute, even though everybody watching, I think, now has seen it, and you and I have seen it, but just as a refresher, and then we're going to run General Cavoli, the four-star commander of all military, American military in Europe, who says the opposite.

Is it not the consensus, the general consensus of American military leadership that A, Ukraine is losing, and B, their air defenses are degraded practically to zero? And we know what A and B together mean, that America is wasting its dollars. Sure. Top-level commanders are biting their tongue. They're going along with what is the message that's coming from the Pentagon. They're not pushing back. They're not rocking the boat because to do so jeopardizes your chances for future promotions.

I am told, though, by people who are involved in the process that the colonels, the lieutenant colonels and the majors, many are distraught over what they see as a looming disaster and this disconnect. What you have are senior generals who are politically attuned to serving the White House interests, the Defense Department interests, and not dealing with the truth. And that's the sad commentary. When did senior military learn of the leaks? When did the NSA tell anybody in the federal government? That I don't know. I suspect that, at least from the Pentagon standpoint, they could feign surprise when they came out,

what was it, April 8th? So that they may not have had a heads up. But it is clear that there were elements within the intelligence and military community that were aware of this. And the timing of the leak, I think, was quite important, because we're now on the eve, the cusp of this Ukrainian counteroffensive, which is being presented as a do-or-die moment for Ukraine and for U.S. policy, candidly. Here's Secretary of Defense Austin testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee after he was aware of the contents of the leaked documents. With regard to your optimism about Ukraine having the upper hand, that is what you told me yesterday. It is. Now, Ukrainians have inflicted significant casualties on the Russians and they have depleted their inventory of armored vehicles in a way that no one would have ever imagined.

And so now we see Russia reaching for T-54s and T-55 tanks because of the level of damage that the Ukrainians have inflicted on them. And we have, in the meantime, been... And reaching for those tanks demonstrates what to you, sir? It demonstrates that their capability is waning and we've uh continued to witness them be challenged with artillery munitions and other things and they're reaching out to iran or reaching out to uh to north korea i think you know we'll see an increase in the fighting in the spring as conditions for maneuver improve do you believe there's a real chance for significant

ukrainian advancements between now and the beginning of winter i believe there's a real chance for significant Ukrainian advancements between now and the beginning of winter? I believe there's a chance and we're doing everything that we can do to ensure that they have their best opportunity to be successful, Senator. Wow. Now, General Cavoli, the four-star, that was March 28th. General Cavoli, exactly a month later, April 28th, before the House Armed Services Committee. Here's the Commander-in-Chief of American forces in Europe. I'd like to underline your comment about the specificity of the degradation of the Russian forces. Much of the Russian military has not been affected negatively by this conflict. Much of the Russian military has not been affected negatively by this conflict. One of those forces

is their undersea forces. It's hard to talk in public, as you well know, sir, about undersea warfare and our efforts in that regard. But I can say that the Russians are more active than we've seen them in years. And this is, as you pointed out, despite all of the efforts that they're undertaking inside Ukraine. So much of the Russian military has not been degraded by Ukraine out of the mouth of the general who lives and works in Europe, or the Ukrainians are doing well and we're supporting them out of the mouth of the political secretary of defense himself, a former four star. How can this be, Larry?

Looks like General Cavoli starting to head for the lifeboat, starting to stake out the position that at least he can say, hey, I tried to tell you. Now I watched the entire uh testimony and the q a between cavoli and different members of the house armed services committee and there really is a complete disconnect between both it's republicans democrats it's a bi it's bipartisan delusion right they're all sort of on board with, yeah, you know, the war is going great. Yeah, we've got to keep this up. And Cavoli sort of tried to, he didn't want to directly contradict them,

but if you listen carefully, it just says in this segment, he was sending the message, yeah, they're not actually quite degraded as we've said. Well, that's an understatement. And if you just saw the other night, you know, two days ago, Russia launched a massive, massive missile strike across the country. And they're taking out concentrations of Ukrainian troops, ammo depots, machine shops, etc. So it's, you know, this is it's going to be ugly. Well, why does the Justice Department want to share a locked up during the pendency of his trial? And what kind of evidence are they?

Crazy. Yeah. Try and persuade a federal judge not to give this guy bail. They are trying to create the image of this guy as a major threat to the United States. He was not a major threat. Look, what he did was stupid. It was silly. He certainly wasn't acting as a spy for someone else.

Secondly, he was not acting as a whistleblower. He was not saying, oh my goodness, I can't believe the lies that are being told to the American people. So that's not the way he did it. He was just showing off for some buddies on a game chat. And at 21 years old, you don't always have the best judgment. Your brain's not fully formed. He had no malintention. And yet, when you read some of the government's legal filings, they're claiming that, oh, this military guy had guns. You're going, yeah, that's sort of the expectation if you're in the military. But it turns out that some of the firearms that they were identifying as firearms are actually airsoft guns, which means

they don't fire ammunition, live ammunition. So, but they're trying to, you know, it's how the media, it's a media lynching of sorts. They go on, they're going to make this kid to be evil incarnate, and they're going to try him in public and forget about the old concept of justice that you are innocent until proven guilty. And it's the obligation of the government to prove you guilty, not to smear you in advance. How about the definition of crime, which for 600 years always required an element of harm? Who was harmed by what he did. Well, maybe the government was embarrassed a little bit, but if you weigh that embarrassment versus the transparency and the value in truth that the

American public now knows that the government's been killing people and lying about it, that's obviously a greater good than Joe Biden's embarrassment. I would imagine a federal judge wouldn't even let his lawyers make that argument at trial if there is a trial. Correct. Well, it looks like they're working out a plea deal behind the scenes. And I suspect what will happen ultimately is the espionage charge will go away. He'll plead guilty to mishandling classified information. There will be some time served. I don't know if it will be a military prison or a civilian prison. But, you know, he's just a convenient scapegoat.

Meanwhile, the real drama of what was revealed in those documents, that the story that the American people were being told by people like General Milley and Lloyd Austin was not true, and that the lies are going to cost, the lies are costing lives of Ukrainians and foreigners, and it's a terribly expensive proposition for the American taxpayer. We're spending as much, go ahead. How dangerous have things become that the neocons have infected both parties to the point where we don't have, at least on this issue, a Republican party and a Democratic party. We have just the war party. Right. There's a few progressives in the Democrat side. There's a few libertarians on the Republican side that stand up against this, but they're really so overwhelmed numerically that

they can't accomplish anything. Yeah, it's dangerous because we don't have alternative voices that are being allowed on the media. As we saw, once you got rid of Tucker, Tucker was one of the very few to have Doug McGregor on. And when you look at the lineup of people that go on to talk about the war in Ukraine, Doug is the only one. I mean, they don't let Scott on. They don't let me on. They don't let Phil Giraldi and others on. So Doug is it.

And Doug is being effectively silenced in that regard as well. So unless you have that kind of healthy debate, then you're putting this country at risk. And meanwhile, when you look at what's going on globally, did you see just the other day, the Saudi Arabia identified, recognized diplomatically Hezbollah. For the last 40 years, the Saudis were working with us and declaring Hezbollah a terrorist outfit. Now the Saudis are opening up diplomatic relations with Hezbollah. That is a direct insult to Biden and to the United States. Saudis are saying, we don't care what you think. We're ignoring you. We're going our own route. Hey, to George III, Thomas Jefferson and company were terrorists. I mean, it's a descent.

You're a descendant of courageous human beings who fought and some lost their lives in the Revolutionary War. It just depends on what side you're on, who's the terrorist and who's worthy of international recognition. But when the government just mouths this one side, it's extremely, extremely dangerous. I don't know where Cavoli's going. General Cavoli, maybe he's about to retire. Maybe your statement was not made with tongue in cheek. But he said

almost literally the opposite of what his boss said. And both were under oath, Larry. Correct. He was very cautious in how he presented it. But as you correctly note, when you step back and examine the substance, he was one of the very, very few that's coming out and saying, well, the story's not quite as you're being presented. Now, what we have seen is a sudden surge of articles that are appearing in both the Washington Post, New York Times, Politico, that are saying, boy, you know, this counteroffensive may not go so well. It's almost as if they're preparing the exit plan and preparing to blame Ukraine for what happened. And so there is a lot going on. We've never seen, though, a time in our history, particularly in our lifetimes, where America's influence in the world has been at such a low ebb.

And the number of countries that are beginning to just reject any kind of suggestion of U.S. leadership and to go their own route to work with China, to work with Russia, certainly not to work with the United States. It is a very unsettling time. If I remember this correctly, when this Tashar stuff first broke, you used the phrase, someone senior in the government is trying to prepare us for a crash landing. Meaning an exit ramp from Ukraine that we haven't prepared and push the government in that direction before more money is wasted and more lives go down the drain. And somehow that person or those persons used to share it as the instrument to get it out. And now, as you say, the DOJ will prosecute him and him alone so that wherever the people are that got it to him, and I'm sure he doesn't know who they are, will not be punished. What we're looking at is with the devastating defeat that's going to be visited upon Ukraine.

That will mean that the United States in one year spent over $100 billion in military aid and other aid to Ukraine. That's more than we provided Afghanistan in 20 years. And for all of that money, you know, if you will, one-tenth of a trillion dollars, we've come up empty. And in the process, we'll potentially rupture NATO. And in rupturing NATO, we're seeing against the backdrop that the U.S. influence in other critical areas, such as the Middle East, and in Asia, is eroding dramatically. And I think there are some in the government, sort of, if you will, the old squad that wants to preserve what America was, are alarmed by this and are doing what they can to push back against the Biden team. And the Victorian Newlands of the world still want American troops to support an invasion of Crimea and somehow think that all this is going to result in the removal of President Putin from office

and then they can put some puppet in or somebody will be put in there who will kowtow to them, which, of course course has been their fanciful, fabulous dream. We're confronted with magical thinking on all sides and the magic on all sides of the U.S. government from the standpoint that they believe that somehow U.S. troops can just magically get into Ukraine and move forward with no resupply, with no logistics change, with no air support, and take a heavily defended outpost that it took the Nazis several months, where they had actually all the artillery, tanks,

and air support in World War II to take Crimea, then now all of a sudden we're magically going to, it's dangerous thinking as well as magical, because it may push the Russians to escalate in a way that we will then not be able to respond, and we'll pay a price. I didn't realize that you and the others whose intellect and intellectual honesty and experience and Lieutenant Colonel Schaefer and Ray McGovern and Scott Ritter are always welcome here. And maybe that's why this show has gone from 93 viewers its first week to two and a half million. It's passed two and a half million, it's past half dozen weeks, because people are anxious to challenge the government to hear another view, and they're not getting it anywhere else. Correct. Well, you know, I go back to where there was a time when I was a Fox News analyst. I was on CBS, ABC, NBC. And look, I'm not lobbying to go back on regular television because it's become so corrupted.

My time is more effectively spent with people like you and platforms like yours, which are unfiltered, which allow you to get the message out. And, hey, I'd be happy to debate Jack Devine or anybody. You know, I've got nothing to hide and hold back. But it's important, at least in your case, you present all sides. You're not just delivering one sort of propaganda message. But that's what having healthy debate is essential for preserving our freedom and our democracy and our republic. Spoken like a patriot. Thank you, Larry. Always a pleasure. We'll see you again soon. Thank you, Judge. If you like what you saw and heard,

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