Judging Freedom - Ukraine Russian War Stalemate? w/ Jack Devine fmr CIA

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

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Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, August 3rd, 2023. Jack Devine is here with us in just a minute. I'm going to ask him how that vaunted Ukrainian army is doing, and is the CIA getting ready for another coup or anti-coup in Niger, in Africa? And if they are involved, is that going to bring American troops? All of that right after this. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Lear Capital. Are you tired of feeling helpless while roller coaster markets and economic uncertainty wreak havoc on your savings? It's time to take control of your financial future and consider investing in gold. Gold has a long history as a safe haven for investors who want to diversify their wealth

against economic uncertainty. Unlike paper investments, gold is easy to buy and easy to sell and easy to store and has never been worth zero. You all know that I am a paid spokesperson for Lear Capital. I know the folks at Lear. I trust the folks at Lear. I do my investing in gold and silver at Lear, and you should do the same. Lear has over 25 years of experience in the business and thousands of five-star reviews

and a 24-hour purchase guarantee, risk-free. When I buy gold, I choose Lear. So call my friends at Lear. Use the 800 number below. Tell them the judge sent you. 800-511-4620. Get your gold and silver wealth protection information. Get your investor information. Get your questions answered with no pressure and no obligation to purchase. And for a limited time, you might be able to qualify for a $15,000 bonus gold with a qualifying purchase. So call my friends at Lear, 800-511-4620, or do as I do and go on the internet, learjudgenap.com. Jack Devine, welcome back to the program. So Jack, after 500 days of war and 300,000 dead Ukrainian soldiers and 50,000 Ukrainian soldiers who've lost one or more limbs, how are they doing, Jack?

Well, the Russians plan to invade, overrun all of Ukraine, and set up themselves in Kiev. That never happened. Never happened. So I think they did an outstanding job holding off the Russians. I don't know where you got your $300,000 and $50,000. So I'm glad you asked that. I got those figures from something called the Institute for Peace and Diplomacy. It sounds like a CIA front, but it's not.

Yeah. Well, whatever it is, I'd like to know how they got that. I don't think the numbers are near that on either side. Well, they say they got the numbers from obituaries and from suddenly non-working cell phones. I don't know how accurate that is. I just don't accept the numbers. I don't accept the numbers, that's all. Well, what victories?

We don't need to talk. What it is, it's been a very bloody war. Okay. What victories has the Ukraine army achieved in the war? Well, they pushed the Russians back. They took back 50%. There have been no Russian gains, right? Has there been anything happening in the past three months? Well, doesn't Russia still control the eastern part of Ukraineraine the russian-speaking part of the donbass they took a lot of this back in 2014 i mean right so my point is they're holding the russians are holding but they were pushed back i mean they were they were in kiev they were in the capital they're not there they're gone so the russians have to look at it as a failure in the process.

Failure means totally done. We're not done. This game hasn't been played out. I have been saying, this is the show that documents what Jack Devine says. No, this is my library. I want people to go back and read what I've said about offensives and counteroffensive. I've been saying all along, don't expect the big offensive. It's still not done. I'm impressed that the Ukrainians have held off the great Russian

army for 500 days, and the Russians have lost more men than they have, and this is because of the way they're fighting. Wait a minute. The Russians have lost more men than the Ukrainians? Jack, where is that from more men than Ukrainians have? Jack, where is that from? From doctored CIA stuff? Well, first of all, we don't publish the figures. But I think if you look at the British have a military group that does very good evaluations. I don't have their name at my fingertip. And the numbers have been tracking and generally acceptable to most people. I mean, I think the Russians have clearly have lost more. No question. I don't know anyone that's

saying the other. Maybe some of your other guests, but I'm dubious about it. So in 1994, the population of Ukraine was 52 million. In 2022, it was 33 million. It's now 20 million. It's now $20 million. Where is it going? Is it a broken country? Well, would you send your family out of the country in a war zone? Of course. Well, okay.

If you're over 50. But is it a broken country? It has the lowest fertility rate in the world. They have no more human beings to put in the military. What about the Russians? You want to talk about having trouble? Read everything that's been written in Russia about how hard it is to find troops. They've had to raise their recruitment age from 25 to 30.

Where's the big 300,000 army that your guys promised me on this show? Anyway, I think there's only one way to look at this. I mean, if someone's objective. And that is something that looks like a standstill at this point. Now, I think there's still more that the Ukrainians can do to push the Russians out. Not entirely out, not this year. But I think there's more that they can push back on. I've been saying all along that I thought our government was doing a good job in getting the weapons there within the reality that I understand about how hard it is.

Well, I want to say today that I think the issue of those that were complaining from the day one, and maybe for political reasons, I think there is a shortcoming on our side in getting what's needed there on time. I'm not sure I understand why we don't have in place already what they have. So I'm changing what I've said on this show. I've been satisfied. I've been impressed with what has been done. I'm saying now that one of the reasons things aren't moving is because the things that they have over and over again said we haven't provided. We have not solved the air support problem. We haven't solved the long-range counter-missile program. These weapons are in route. Great.

Great. Maybe they're on the high seas, but they're not there when they're needed. But there's a lot going in, and I'm not critical. I'm just saying that's what's holding up the offensive in my view. I'm not expecting a major driving the Russians out of, I never did. I think this is a fight where both sides say we've had enough. A fight to a standstill. We're not there. Okay. Tell me if you agree, Gary, if you want to get President Biden in Helsinki ready. Tell me if you agree with the commander in chief who says that Russia's already lost the war.

The issue of whether or not this is going to keep Putin from continuing to fight, the answer is Putin's already lost the war. Putin has a real problem. How does he move from here? What does he do? And so the idea that there's going to be what vehicle is used, he could end the war tomorrow. He could just say, I'm out. But what agreement is ultimately reached depends upon Putin and what he decides

to do. But there is no possibility of him winning the war in Ukraine. He's already lost that war. Imagine if even if anyway, he's already lost that war. I know you have been candid enough to address the fact that victory has a number of different definitions. I respect that, and I agree with that. But Putin has lost the war. This is the latest mantra from Joe Biden, from Tony Blinken, from Lloyd Austin, from Jake Sullivan, from Bill Burns, head of the CIA, from Burns' counterpart at MI6. Question, Jack, do they think that by controlling the narrative, they can control the battlefield?

Yeah, I think it would not have been the worst I would have chosen. I would tell you the war is not over. The war is not over. It's clearly not over. It hasn't been won, it hasn't been lost. The war is not over. Anyone who thinks it's over, I think, is using the improper expression for where we stand. But what I said in March of 22 was that Putin is so deceitful as the mines. He can't win this one. I agree with the second part. There's no reason, I have no reason to believe that Putin has any remote chance of winning this. That's not the same as having lost the war. The war is not done yet. Why is Joe Biden and everybody around him presenting this false and deceptive narrative that Putin has already lost the war as if it happened in the past? Yeah, I haven't followed the follow on to this. A lot of times presidents make statements and then they're

corrected, right? I agree that he cannot win the war. I disagree. The war is, he's lost the war because the war, there's fighting going on. You can't say war is over when people are fighting and people are dying. So I think it's a poor choice of words. I'll give you another example of the president's words, and you can tell me what you think of this. When the president says, when Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland says, when the Secretary of State Tony Blinken says, we will continue to aid Ukraine for as long as it takes. For as long as it takes to do what, Jack? They're not going to drive the Russians out of eastern Ukraine. They're not going to recapture Crimea. They're not going to force Putin from office. So as long as it takes to do what? I think for the Russians to stop fighting and to return back to the pre-invasion lines. I mean, I think that would be bare minimum.

Here is Mrs. Zelinsky, the wife of the president, criticizing the choice of that word for as long as it takes. There's an English translation. Oh, no, there's no English translation. I'm sorry. I'm going to read the translation. It's pretty brief. We keep hearing from our Western partners that they will be with us as long as it takes.

Long is not the word we should use. We should use the word faster. Does that help when the president's wife criticizes Joe Biden for his choice of words? It wouldn't be something I would recommend as a public relations person, but I would say I'm sticking with we're going to stay as long as it takes

to get the job done. And to you, the job done means either a stalemate or a secession in hostilities. Embed it in as long as it takes means, as long as it takes as fast as you can do it. But people have to recognize there's laws of physics. You can only make certain things happen at certain times. Understood. But, Jack, if hostilities stopped today, Zelensky would not be pleased at all. That's correct. Because his goal is the retention of eastern Ukraine and the recapture of Crimea.

So he's not going to voluntarily stop hostilities, only the laws of physics. He doesn't have any more bullets. He doesn't have any more men. He doesn't have any more army, whatever the case may be. I'll use your phrase, only the laws of physics would cause President Zelensky voluntarily to stop. Don't you agree? Oh, I absolutely agree. I mean, he's actually born, if I'm not mistaken, raised in Donbass. In other words, it's like give up Pennsylvania if you're a citizen of Pennsylvania. So I think that will be his position, and I think he would lose the next election

if he tried to take another position. Having said that, there's a lot of politics at play, and part of it is also in Russia. And I've been on this since the day, well, I won't exaggerate, about 10 days after Putin went in that he's finished. Now on this since the day, well, no one exaggerate, about 10 days after Putin went in that he's finished. Now, I didn't say how long, but this thing probably isn't going to wind down until we reach a point where he is generally recognized to have failed and to have

lost the war, at which time I expect him to leave office. Well, you have a lot of road to travel before he leaves office. The last opinion polls showed his approval rating is between 82 and 86 percent. I don't know that we've had an American president in the modern era. He is not going to lose an election. Okay. He's not going to lose an election. He's not going to be driven out by a big demonstration. But what I'm saying and have said consistently on this show is that when it's viewed that this is a failure among the people and that they're at a permanent stalemate, but they're losing bodies and so forth,

that the people that have a stake are bigger than just him. It isn't that he controls everything. And there's a lot of dissent in the military. There's a lot of things coming out now in press, both in Russia and internationally, about dissent within the military. I believe he will leave the office as 95% of Russian leaders have, to walk out the door. Here's his predecessor, if you will. He was president for two terms, and then Medvedev was president for one.

Now Putin's in his third consecutive term. His fifth term as president. So here's Dmitry Medvedev, who's the vice chair of the National Security Council of Russia. Just imagine that the offensive in tandem with NATO succeeded and ended up with part of our land being taken away. Then we would have to use nuclear weapons by virtue of the stipulations of the Russian presidential decree. There simply wouldn't be any other solution. Our enemies should pray to our fighters that they do not allow the world to go up in nuclear flames. Is this a credible and reasonable threat, Jack? We used to call it saber rattling. Do you remember those

days? I do remember that. Did you come up with that phrase for your masters at the CIA? You're aging me a little more than I would like. So, Sabra, that's a sign of desperation. When you stand up and say, I'm going to throw a rock at you. I now have come to the view, and I started on this show long ago, call this guy's

bluff. I'm not talking about Nugent Revenants. I'm very impressed with what the Israelis did recently, and I hope you saw that. They went in and they picked up their grain and came back, right? They called this bluff flat out, just went in, took the grain and came back. I think every time he threatens this, that, and the other, What has he done? We put weapons in and he keeps rattling and battling and so on. Jack, have we given the Ukrainians enough weapons? They have no air force. They have no artillery shells. We have no artillery shells to give them.

Let me finish, Jack. The Russians have destroyed nearly all the HIMARS we've given them. What more can we give them? What more do Mr. and Mrs. Zelensky want from us? Yeah, first of all, they haven't destroyed all of them. No, we're not down to zero ammunition. I mean, it's really, how much do you go into your stores? So again, I think we've got people that are painting a picture. The Russians are having serious problems on this. You're in a war. This is what happens. And what are the Ukrainians doing? They're building up their run capabilities in-country.

So I don't see it coming to the end. But the question is, as I said earlier, they clearly don't have the weapons they need right now. They're en route, okay? They're promised, okay? We're going to get them. And then the Russians are going to, the Russians are not making any progress. So even with everything you've said, this great Russian army can't make any ground. In other words, they can't do anything. The Ukrainians don't have any weapons. They don't have this. They don't have that. But the Russians can't win two more feet of ground. What does that say?

What does that tell you? So the Russians have three rings of defenses on eastern Ukraine of various military concoctions and various names and various levels of lethal. Imagine the line. Okay. The Ukrainians have not even approached, much less pierced, the first of those three lines. So where is the originally spring, now summer, maybe fall offensive going, Jack? This is that poem that I tried to get people to read, The Valley of the Death. You know, you don't march through trenches like they did in the fields of Flanders, right? You just kill soldiers because, you know, we're going to go in there, but we don't have any air. So tell that to President Zelensky, who's promised the offensive.

Jack Devine did not promise a major counteroffensive was going to drive the Russia down. Zelensky did, and so did all the commentators in the United States. And I kept saying, don't get so forward leaning. You want to be in a defensive position. The Ukrainians did a great job defending Ukraine and pushing them back. That they're going to push to the border of Russia is a stretch,

and I've said it since the beginning. You wear them down so that they lose the war, and then you get a settlement that gets them as far out as you possibly can. I think they're on a successful path if we stay the distance. out as you possibly can. Here's a former CENTCOM commander and former CIA director, David Petraeus, on the state of the war. What do you think? I think they need to be doing what they actually are now doing, having adapted their plan. Of course, no plan survives contact with the enemy. And it was quickly clear that these miles long minefields, anti-personnel, anti-tank minefields, tank ditches, dragon's teeth, trench lines full of Russian soldiers,

all overwatched by forward observers and drones with artillery on call, that these were going to be very, very difficult to breach, given the shortcomings that the Ukrainians have in certain assets that we would have deployed in this kind of situation in particular massive air power we would have just carpet bombed the whole area of these minefields tried to blow up as much as we possibly could and then very substantial heavily armed uh essentially bulldozers D9 bulldozers that just plow their way through this, supported again by close air support, attack helicopters and the rest. They don't have that. So they've adapted, I think, impressively.

So I think there's a big point here that I think should be on the audience. I want to go on record. I love going on record with it because you bring me back time and time so I can remind them that I'm saying this. I think there's a strategy change taking place. Is that well defined for the, in other words, I think there's an adjustment because of the lack of the needing the weapons right now. I think it's going to change with the arrival of them. But what I'm and this is the is the aggressiveness of now the ukrainians attacking military uh depots and so so forth inside Russia they're taking the fight to Russia I'm a little uneasy about this now they've hit other things like banks which the Russians have

hit hospitals so you get you get that factor but they are now there's a there's something going on in the strategy that I want to revisit with you in a couple of weeks. I think there's a different way that this war is going to be fought in the coming year. Part of it will depend on what happens when we get our stuff in place. But I don't think the general is wrong. I wouldn't have used, he was using carpet bombing when we were in there with a full army and so on. This is not a place for carpet bombing. What he's saying is we would have destroyed the minefields. They don't have the weapons to do it, so why be stupid and go across the trenches? Not that they're losing the battle because they're

trying to get across the trenches. They're not going across the trenches, okay? So I think that's where there's a strategy change. I think they're looking in the south. The Russians have not taken any territory. The Ukrainians have taken territory in the last. The Russians have not taken any territory. The Ukrainians have taken territory in the last couple of months. It isn't what people expected. Here's an NBC report on just what you have been talking about, the use of drones to attack Russian banks. And at the end of the report is an English translation of President Zelensky's comment on it. Take a listen, Jack.

The drones exploded in the heart of Moscow's financial district on Sunday morning around 4 a.m. Russian officials say at least three drones were involved and blamed Ukraine. Russians can no longer turn a blind eye to this war now that it's coming home. Although Ukraine didn't take responsibility, President Zelensky gave what seemed to be the most direct admission of cross-border attacks into Russia yet and suggested a new chapter is beginning. Ukraine is getting stronger. Gradually, the war is returning to russian territory

its symbolic centers and military bases and this is an inevitable natural and absolutely fair process he said jack the reporter richard angle is a friend of mine but this almost sounds like a cia docu drama aren't these just pinpricksicks? Two bombs hit the 40th floor of a bank at four o'clock on a Sunday morning? First of all, if I were invited to advise the Ukrainians, I would say stick to strictly military targets and military installations. I'm not sure the thinking behind that. And I'm not saying that I'm not sure whether the Ukrainians took credit for that. They certainly are doing that. I would say stick to military. But you have to, there's an argument to be made. Remember in Vietnam, they had the famous Tet Offense. And after that, we left.

They lost the Tet Offense. The military, they lost, you know, in terms of people, but our morale broke. And that was when we left. So I think they're maybe trying to mold and shape the morale inside and say, this is not cost free. Where I think there's a better argument for them to attack is the Russians have done an amazingly brutal thing to the world. It's not going to affect us in the United States. You might pay two cents more for bread, maybe. I kind of doubt it. They're going to starve Africa and the Middle East if they keep that, and they know it, the grain out of there. That is a deliberate attempt to destroy Ukraine's ability to deliver food. And it's a very large percentage. I don't want to be misquoted. That's a brutal attack. I believe that the Ukrainians are right in countering and taking a look at their shipping. In other words,

that is so bad and so bad for the world. I think it's already costing them in Africa. I mean, he had a conference where about one-tenth of the people showed up that showed up last year. There's a lot going on in Africa. But I think this grain thing needs to be watched, what they're doing. And they should be ostracized for the impact that that's going to have on people. Let me ask you one or two questions about Africa, and then I'll let you go. There was a coup in Niger this week.

The general who dominated the coup and now claims to be president has indicated he's not going to be selling Niger's most valuable natural resource, which is uranium, to the EU and to the West. Is the CIA going to go in there and overthrow him,

just like they overthrew his predecessors? If they read my books, they would go to the West? Is the CIA going to go in there and overthrow him just like they overthrew his predecessors? If they read my books, they would. They would go to the chapters that deal with under what conditions do you use force and where do you put CIA in? I hope we don't. But that's not the central point. The central point is Africa, this happened in several coups. And if you go back to the Cold War again, this is, you know, the Russians are in there. Wagner Group is all over Africa. And now who's running it? But what you have is a struggle in those areas.

So what's interesting is the Nigerians and the Chad folks in Chad are trying to find ways to put pressure on Niger. So I think what we're looking at is, and it's amazing in a way, that Russia wants to extend its struggle like it did in World War, in the Cold War. I mean, they're a small country compared to the Soviet Union and its international ideology, and yet they have the Wagner Group. So we need to be watching Africa more carefully. I think the administration has been beating the drum on this for a while, but this is a country that now has gone from our side to the other side, okay? And so we should use force and violence and theft and deception to bring them back to our side, Mr. Kloekendagger? I think we need to bring them back to our side, Mr. Cloak and Dagger? I think we need to bring them back on our side.

But again, I want to come back to my view on when you use force. I mean, I think you first of all start with economic ties and pressure. And, you know, they're a small country. I mean, they ought to be able to make life difficult. We're going to try and keep the Wagner group out of there. But I don't see a role for covert action at all at this point. I mean, I think that it doesn't fit my limited, I'm a strong advocate of covert action and I've been a participant and a practitioner of it, but in very selective occasions. I mean, there are a lot of things that were done I would

never have agreed to. Jack Devine, always a pleasure, my dear man. You're always consistent. God bless you. That's a blessing. That's a blessing. And you're looking good. Thank you. Judge Nemours, we get it. Colonel McGregor, and we'll have some clips of Jack

for the Colonel's opinions at one o'clock today, Eastern. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thanks for watching!